Why does Sup Forums have such a hard time understanding transgendered people and/or the difference between sex and...

Why does Sup Forums have such a hard time understanding transgendered people and/or the difference between sex and gender?

Other urls found in this thread:

atrazinelovers.com
discord.gg/0X1B9skZ7gVijnbP
journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria
twitter.com/AnonBabble

...

Assuming you're male, if I asked what it means to be a 'man' would you REALLY honestly only say 'penis'? Like you don't believe there is any mental/personal/emotional difference between men and women? There is no way in which it 'feels' to be a man vs being a woman?

Ask people about Atrazine.

atrazinelovers.com

I understand there are boys and girls and people pretending to be something else

We understand, we just don't agree.

I think it's a form of body dysmorphic disorder and gender reassignment surgery is a barbaric practise that does more harm than good, as evidenced by the massive suicide rates.

transgender people are chemically imbalanced. It is just like any other mental illness

How is this America's next civil rights frontier?

It's legal to be a faggot and it's legal to marry a faggot.

civil rights frontier? get a fuckin grip. no one cares. Honestly, it's like maybe 2% of the population actually fuckin care in current year. The rest are just trying not to get blown up by muslims are keep a fuckin job to pay bills. And if someone says they don't care or don't have an opinion they're not transphobic. If you want to spend your money on cutting your dick up to look like a vagina go ahead and do it, but don't get offended when people say their opinion that it's stupid. Don't ask for their opinion if you're going to get all pissy if it's not like yours. But no one in current year is trying to send them to fuckin jail or kill them for it. Other than muslims.
Understand like a fuckin furry or brony you're going into the minority here. People are going to think your'e fuckin weird and may not want to get to know you, why? BECAUSE YOU ARE FUCKIN WEIRD. No need to be ashamed in that, but stop trying to make the majority so fuckin warm and welcome of your weird fuckin fetish of wanting a cut up dick.

Don't get mad when people dont want laws that can and will be abused by fuckin pedos and creeps just so you can 'feel like a real women'. You're not a real women. Biologically there are 2 sexes. I fucking LOVE how SJW are pushing the labels on the sexes. You can be a male and want a cut up mutilated dick and still be a fuckin male. You don't have to be into football and pussy and broing down to be a male. Same as you can want a cut up dick and to be ridden by some dude dressed in a fuckin wolf mascot outfit.

Some people don't want to understand shit that they think is weird.

What do you mean by 'pretend' though? How do you know they are pretending? In fact is not just a little strange to you that people in cultures across the world and across history would go out of their way to 'pretend' to be the opposite gender when through out time that's commonly used brought nothing but pain, isolation, and often death or severe injury? Why would this many people play some big elaborate prank and invite suffering? For what purpose? Isn't it more likely that they actually and honestly feel 'trapped in the wrong body's natural like they claim?

How do you know the suicide rates are caused by surgery? And what about simply doing hormones and presenting as the gender they mentally correspond to instead of reassignment surgery?

Because the rates are significantly higher post-op and bullying and discrimination don't make up a significant enough contributing factor, historically. The only other group that has comparable suicide rates to post-on transgenders are schizophrenics.

If these people are real, and not just wanting to be special, then you can correct them with surgery.
A good brain surgery will correct their sexual deviations.

>mental illness

I agree that gender dysphoria is an illness. Why would anyone feel compelled to discriminate against or ostrasize someone because they have an illness that they had no control over? What if the only known/best cure or treatment for that illness is hormone therapy and presenting as the gender they identify with? What kind of shitty human being would recognize this and still oppose it?

What's difficult to understand? You're born with certain parts, you play that role. If you can't handle it, you're emotionally deficient - a freak. Getting surgery to cover up means you're lying to yourself and the world. I'm sorry for the freaks, but I don't want any of it on me.

Now hermaphrodites... *that's* confusing.

Why does the non-trans portion of the LGBT community have such a hard time promoting transgendered people as people, and not as victims or pets to be defended?

Also why is being genderqueer accepted as a positive virtue signal, while people with legitimate Gender dysphoria are unironically suffering from a mental illness requiring counseling and invasive surgery?

Last but not least why is OP a fag?

Um, yes...they do.

Sources please.

You're making a lot of claims as to the source. Do you know if they committed suicide *because* of the surgery? It's only taking into account before or after, but not causation.

2/10 I replied to stupid.

I'll take your word for it for now though I'm interested in your source. What about hormone therapy and presenting as the gender they identify with and no reassignment surgery?

penis - male
vagina - female

thats it
fuckin sage

Gender dysphoria doesn't exist. It's a made up buzzword that regressive liberals forced into the field of psychology. Historically, transgenderism fell under the umbrella of body dysmorphic disorder, which also includes things like people who amputate their own limbs because they feel a strong antipathy or "wrongness" about them.

The fact is, it is a disorder, and people trying to force us to blindly tolerate transgenderism prevent us from having a very necessary discussion about how to treat this disorder.

Because there are only two genders. And whichever of the two genders you were born as, be it boy or girl, you will die that same gender. No amount of makeup, fake tits, and faggot SJW libcucks will ever change that. Now fuck off with all this new age shit scum. Someone seriously needs to gas millennials.

Yes preach it you nigger

Well, we live in a country where no one can tell you what to do with your body.

The only even remotely interesting thought about that is: at what age are you allowed to actively engage in an obsession to surgically pursue your happiness? I honestly don't care about that, though. You are a teenager with shit for judgment.

I also don't think anything that amounts to surgical OCD should be covered by insurance. It is just as elective as getting fake tits.

discord.gg/0X1B9skZ7gVijnbP

Because everyone here has some kind of mental illness and you are not special.

>Gender dysphoria doesn't exist.
>The fact is, it is a disorder

Is it a disorder or does it not exist? Make up your mind.

Gays faced very similar conditions in the 70s and 80s and didn't have anywhere near the rate of suicide of post-op trans people.

The surgery is precisely the problem because it is irreversible. People with this condition may have the surgery thinking it will significantly improve their life only to find that it doesn't fix the way they feel and are now mutilated.

There's no getting around the facts. Post-op trans people, specifically, kill themselves at a rate of over 20 times the general population globally do.

Transgenderism is a disorder, not gender dysphoria, which does not exist.

Snip your shit off all you want, but when the trans trend fades into obscurity you'll be an unpopular mangled freak.

trans people

The "difference between sex and gender" is an opinion based on the ramblings of 1 quack psychologist and is not reflected in reality

Sex and gender are the same thing, and there's only 2 of them: male and female. And you can't change the oen you're born with- if you are born male, you cannot become a female; if you are born female, you cannot become male. This is reality. Welcome to it.

...

>I also don't think anything that amounts to surgical OCD should be covered by insurance. It is just as elective as getting fake tits.

But gender dysphoria is an illness and the purpose of health insurance is treat illnesses.

If you have a penis and you act masculine you are a man
If you have no penis and act masculine you are a dike woman
If you have a penis and act feminine you are a faggy man
If you have no penis and act feminine you are a woman

Many trans people are not satisfied with hormones alone because it doesn't change their genitals.

Also, a lot of liberals advocate giving hormones to young kids who identify as trans in order to stop puberty, which is a horrible idea for many reasons.

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

Here's your source faggot now kindly fuck off with this safespace bullshit.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria

This is fucking retarded. ITT 0 doctors with psych degrees. Gender dysphoria is in the fucking DSM therefore it exists AND qualifies as a mental disorder.

But the effectiveness of gender reassignment surgery is highly questionable and very controversial. If it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be both necessary and effective, I'd by ok with it, but that isn't the case currently.

If a mad scientist drugged you in your sleep, induced you into a coma, performed sexual reassignment surgery on you and put you on hormones such that when you woke up you were ostensibly or apparently a woman (by this I mean, anyone who saw or examined you short of doing a dna analysis would identify you as and treat you as a women) would you think of yourself as a woman? Would you mentally still feel like the same person you were before this happened to you?

i mean, if i chopped off my balls only to realize i was just gay the whole time id blow my brains out too, especially since the gay lifestyle is so cheery and protected

If you want a distinct difference between what you think sex and gender is perhaps you should start using different terms than male and female - those happen to already mean something

>posting facts in my progressive acceptance thread
BIGOT
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

we actually dont even have much data on the consequences of hormone therapy, i would call it reckless malpractice to give it to a child

It wasn't added until 1980. Read your own fucking source, idiot.

I've said this a couple times and it's still not been addressed. Say I agree and accept that reassignment surgery is generally not the best option. This still leaves the question of hormone therapy and presenting. What are the before and after suicide rates there?

originally named Gender Identity Disorder (GID)
It was changed to Gender Dysphoria (GD) in the DSM-V because muh oppression and muh diversity

also
>implying the ICD-10 isn't suprerior

Exactly.

This too.

I would think of myself as "physically assaulted" and contact the authorities. And then, if I felt traumatized, I'd seek therapy and get told that I have a mental illness that requires treatment. I wouldn't get told to change everything about my personality/lifestyle to fit the traumatized view of myself.

Gayness is in style now mom, I have to go full tranny to keep up with the counter culture

No fucking way, you mean its actually IN THE DSM?!
you fucking autist. no one said anything about the date it was added. its in there, period.

See:
We don't know if it's safe yet, and is still only a half-measure.

The claim was, it was added because of regressive liberalism and political correctness. The fact that it was only added relatively recently supports that.

I don't understand your point. Science and by extension, medicine, involves discarding old theory in favor of new theory if it is superior. Like, are you saying medicine or scientific theory generally is better or more accurate by virtue of being older than competing data and theory that is newer? Seems like the complete opposite of how it works.

"They say they need it, so give it to them."

Honestly, it might make people who feel the need for surgery to change their appearance feel better in the moment, but it would be so detrimental in the long run to ignore the obsessive thoughts outright and, essentially, just hope for the best about their mental state.

It would be a massive step back for psychiatry.

I would say that there is a number of lateral studies of the effects of hormones on children (through altered food) that could be applied to attempting HRT on them

I would think of myself as a male that had been horribly mutilated and probably kill myself.

see:
It wasn't even called GD until a couple of years ago

There is a difference between feeling born in the wrong body and being abducted and put in the wrong body. I have already grown up as a man, learning what a man has to learn from the perspective of a man. That's like comparing wishing you were born in the fifties to being sucked through a time portal into the fifties.

Where the fuck do i go to get some real information about this issue? Everywhere i look i either see information sources from delusional sjws or from crazy over the edge right wingers. Where do i go to get real information about this issue?

And? No medical procedure is ever going to be a guarantee, and in every other medical field experimentation is perfectly acceptable as long as the patient volunteers and has full disclosure of the procedure and risks. Why should we make an exception here?

But you need to examine WHY it was changed. Was it changed because science deemed it necessary, or was it changed due to social pressure?

hormone story time then, faguettes.
>sister marries brother in law
>he has 2 kids with her and 1 from a previous marriage that he doesnt speak to
>they divorce
>kids are 1 and 3
>few months after the split he announces out of the blue that hes transgender
>spends his child support money ON hormone therapy literally overnight
>this continues for 2 years
>3 suicide attempts during that time
>meets a new girl/ "marries" her
>decide to have yet ANOTHER baby
>decides he wants to BREASTFEED his new child
>sees a quack doctor who gives him 3x his hormone dosage
>he begins taking 3x the recommended dose because these doctors really do exist and their numbers get exchanged throughout the trans community
>he dies in a bathroom while camping

Hormones are dangerous, we don't fully understand them, and these safeguards are put in place for VERY good reasons. And giving them to kids is unforgivable.

Because insurance generally doesn't cover elective procedures. You're not gonna get the insurance company to pay to get your wife fake titties.

HIS claim. MY claim was that its in the fucking DSM and you did nothing but prove it so thanks and kindly shut the fuck up.

No. The point is simply, if you'd research the history of the defined mental illnesses (GID / Gender Dysphoria being the ones in question), then you'd notice a startling correlation between the "progressive" liberal ideologies and when the name changed from Gender Identity Disorder to Gender Dysphoria. Simply, it was changed because people felt that the term "disorder" was offensive to their culture (or lack thereof).

So to reiterate, new evidence and theories that are backed by scientific research and study are, obviously, taken over the old research and studies. That's how science progresses. But when it's simply a new name to an already existing disorder, then there has to be some reason for that. In this case, the reason is that people are offended by the term "disorder".

those are like cows growth hormones in your whole milk giving you acne, not pumping testosterone and suppressors into a six year old girl, probably totally useless data

This man right here. Good job, mate! What amazes me is they will still try to argue against you.

This... i don't believe anyone can know things like this and still have stupid fucking questions like OP's

So you would see yourself as male then? That's literally my whole point. You're admitting that there is something that it means to be 'male' that is mental and not just a matter of what state your body is in.

You don't "feel born in the wrong body", you feel "left out of the cool kids club" and theres a difference. Forgetting that distinction is what brought "transgender" into pop culture just a few years ago. It's only after everyone invented these brand new genders to confuse themselves that they started screaming, "born in the wrong body!"
>4-5 years ago and not a minute before

Also, I'd like to know: why are people ok with giving trans people hormones, but taking steroids, many of which are hormones makes you worse than hitler? Taking testosterone can actually be illegal because of the harm taking excessive testosterone can do.

If science catered and caved in to social pressure I'm sure the consensus would be that being a fat fuck isn't all that bad and global warming is just Obama's fever dream.

And literally my whole point is that people who are medically mutilated may regret it and will likely kill themselves.

You made my point, too.

So was homosexuality. Does that mean gays are mentally ill?

oh, guess we better allow it then as there is no indication that exposing children to hormones might be detrimental. Nope, none at all. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to inhale deeply in preparation for my RRRREEEEEEEEEEEEE when someone points out that there ARE studies of the effects of androgens, estrogens, and HGH on children

>Good job, mate! What amazes me is they will still try to argue against you

He didn't make an argument though. 'you're weird!' Isn't an argument it's an emotional response that typically only people under the age of 14 are incapable of controlling.

If it's currently in the DSM, then yes. They are. Such is the nature of the mental health profession.

Truthfully? If you really, truly want information on it, you should look up the histories of the people mentioned. If you want a TL;DR, here you go:

>Transgender community feels like it's one gender trapped inside the other.
>Transgender community feels like they don't have a disorder, they're just "different".
>Transgender people commit suicide at an ASTOUNDING rate, comparable only to paranoid schizophrenics and/or Jews under Nazi German rule.
>Transgender people who do NOT undergo GRS (Gender Reassignment Surgery) commit suicide at a rate ranging between 35-40% (last I checked, may be new data).
>Transgender people who DO undergo GRS commit suicide at about the same rate, if not slightly more due to regret.
>Transgender people who are NOT accepted as trans by their friends and family have the same suicide rate as the aforementioned, as are those who ARE accepted.
>Anyone who opposes is considered a bigot, homophobe, transphobe, or just doesn't understand.

If you want more info, I can give you some. I researched it quite a bit when one of my friends from high school told me he was transitioning. I think he needs serious psychiatric help, but I'll give an answer with as little bias as possible.

ARGUMENT: "Men and women should be totally equal! One is not superior to the other."

ARGUMENT: "I choose to be a man or a woman -- contrary to my genetic sex -- because one is apparently superior to the other."

...

I'm not arguing for reassignment surgery I'm arguing for there being a difference between sex and gender which you seemed to have conceded.

When I was little I was absolutely convinced that I should have been a boy. I really wanted to be a boy for many years of my childhood. Now I see that that was a load of crap. I don't have to be feminine if i have a vagina. If my parents were like some of these moron parents on tv i woulda been fucked. I'm very happy with my unmutilated vagina even though I don't follow some social conventions. My genitals don't dictate my social circles or my interests. I am proof that you shouldn't give little kids hormone therapy.

>moving the goalposts that fast
damn, what's your workout bro?

>this pic
Tranny make-up is blackface for women. Every cross dresser wears the same over-exaggerated look and behaves vicious and catty like the amalgam of EVERY horrible female stereotype taken to the ultimate extreme, and then they pat each other on the back for "advancing gender equality", totally ignorant of the hypocrisy.

tl;dr trans crossdressers take the worst female stereotypes, normalize them in gay culture, and then claim they're just "acting like women".

You mentioned historie of ppl named in this thread. which people are u talking about? and yes, i would like more information from reputable sources. ty.

Not really. If I had been transformed into a woman, I would still "feel" like a man, because I've been a man my whole life and that's what I'm used to. Women can like manly things and be more masculine than your typical woman, but she's still a woman. I know plenty of girls who are like that, fuck, one of my best friends is a cute girl who burps and farts and eats steak and high-fives me for fucking hot bitches. She doesn't think of herself as not female, nor do I think of her as such.

Gender ROLES perhaps can be flexible, but as far as I'm concerned, sex and gender are synonymous.

Moving the goal posts? Are you alright user? Go back and look at where this exchange began

>Sex and gender are the same thing,

This is the post I originally replied to.

Even that differentiation was created relatively recently. There was originally no difference, then people applied "gender" to the social construct dictated and apparent in each "sex". So, really, there's no difference. And I've always felt that that kind of defeats the current SJW movement of trying to break down these social barriers, doesn't it? Like, if you're cutting off your dick and dressing differently, aren't you still adhering to the social construct that girls wear dresses and pink and makeup and shit and boys don't? I mean, if you really wanted to destroy "social barriers" like that wouldn't you just cross-dress and call it a day? By becoming a girl, supposedly, you're actually adhering to the social guidelines.

This.

Exactly.

I suppose if any deviation from the usual is defined as "mental disease". Unpopular political affiliations could be reasonably considered to be mental disease by that logic.

I trust that gay people don't choose to be gay. Similarly, people who think they are not their genetic sex are probably being honest. It can't be easy to have such an opinion, though there are almost certainly those who claim to be trans purely to get attention. Regardless, you can live your life just as well as a man or a woman as long as we respect rights for gay people.

We don't technically need gay rights and trans rights. But who cares. If it makes a infinitesimally small portion of the population to feel better about chopping their dicks off, who cares? Let them.

No man is more or less likely to rape your daughter in a restroom if trans rights laws exist or not.

oh, my fault, I thought you were OP, who:
>there's nothing wrong with being trans!
>suicide rates
>well, you can't prove that reassignment caused it!
>proven
>well, hrt is perfectly safe!
>doubtful
>b-b-b-but sex and gender are different!
>mixed replies

>YES! I win the thread!

Or hell, not even cross dress. Just be a fat, hairy, balding dude name Steve who is also a woman. That would be the ultimate breaking down of social guidelines.

This guy gets it.There is nothing else to discuss.

So it's just a matter of what you're 'used to'? Do you believe that instead if the mad scientist drugged you and gave you SRS as an infant, and no ever told you, you would grow up believing yourself to be a woman and feeling like/identifying as one?

But again, the issue is that letting them chop their dicks off is demonstrably harmful to them and there may be other forms of therapy much more effective that we're not exploring because of PC culture and blind tolerance.

We're actually doing these people a disservice by not questioning things.

Probably. I would be wrong, but I wouldn't know any better.

Because that's how you win arguments, you child.

>more or less likely to rape your daughter
That's not the problem with bathroom laws, autist. The problem people have with that is that it'd give legitimate rapists legal carte blanche. Every rapist or pedophile could just sit in court and say, "I was in the girls bathroom because I feel like a woman inside" and they'd get away with it.