Is this the greatest animation kino to ever be made?

Is this the greatest animation kino to ever be made?

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exhentai.org/g/573350/973dcf29a2/
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That would be Akira. Don't worry, I know I'm a pleb.

The comic was better.

no, but its close

honorable mentions to perfect blue and grave of the fireflies

No.
Heavy Metal sucked but was 2x better than Nausicaa

No, Popeye is.

Not even the best Miyaza...

wait a sec, Labeuf does the english dub? wtf?

It's definitely high-tier but don't know about greatest. Here's the shortlist of all-time animated kino to show all of your friends how cool you are:

>Belladonna of Sadness (1973) (just the name is enough to let people know you have taste)
>The Tragedy of Man (2011) (It's Hungarian so everyone will assume you know everything if you know Hungarian movies)
>Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade (1999) (the distributors would have just called it 'Wolf-Man' if they had balls)
>Pinnochio (1940) (probably tied with Fantasia for most impressive animation from Disney, but you get bonus hipster points for this one because everyone says Fantasia)
>Watership Down (1978) (possibly the best vocal performances you'll ever hear in an animated kino)
>Wings of Honneamise: The Royal Space Force (1987) (talk about this one now before the sequel makes it popular)

That's not even the best Oshii-kino. Ghost in the Shell 2 is a much better movie and The Red Spectacles is better than every animated movie he ever made.

Perfect Blue is great too but Kon's classics-homage-kino peaked with Millennium Actress. It's simplicity makes it hit harder than Perfect Blue, which takes a standard enough Dario Argento plot and then goes full nippon-twist-mode on it for some reason. PB might have some stronger imagery but I think Kon wasn't quite sure of where he was at yet.

and
>Grave of the Fireflies
There are probably at least 10 Ghibli movies that blow that one away.

Akira is simultaneously entry-level and a pleb filter. It blows your mind with its nonsensical plot and violence when you're 14, but then when you come back you appreciate it as the cyberpunk masterpiece that it is. Only plotfags hate Akira because they're too autistic to appreciate anything that isn't fed to them directly via expository dialogue.

I am autist hear me list facts and opinions.

The Nausicaa film is pretty lame. Prime Miyazaki was late 90s to early 00s.

>That's not even the best Oshii-kino. Ghost in the Shell 2 is a much better movie

>prime miyazaki was late 80's to early 90's

FTFY m8

After watching the rest of Oshii's filmography it really feels like the movie he wanted to make. The only real problem I have with it is the gunfight in the middle act which maybe goes on for a bit too long and gets too big at the end. It's well directed and I appreciate that he used it to demonstrate how inhuman Batou can be but it still felt like an invasive element messing up the ideal Oshii formula.

The first Ghost in the Shell felt like it was going two different directions entirely. It was one part tightly directed police-espionage drama like Patlabor and one part a meandering aesthetic trip. I think that Oshii is much stronger when he focuses on one or the other. Ghost in the Shell feels like it misses out on a core because it tries to be two things. It can work one way or the other but both is too much.

Innocence does a great job of looking nice and pondering stuff while Jin-Roh is an amazing psychological-thriller. Each has elements of the other but one is clearly dominating the other. Ghost in the Shell feels like it's stuck in the middle compared to the rest of Oshii's work. And I know Oshii didn't direct Jin-Roh, and that's probably the reason it is the way it is. His touch is clearly there in the writing, but without him at the helm during production the movie was steered into the safer (but not necessarily less noble) direction of being a thriller over whatever it is you want to call Innocence and the other two Kerberos movies.

nigger GitS 2 is a mishmashed slow poorly directed mess.
Perfect Blue is far better than everything you just listed.

where the hell can I watch Straydog? I've been looking forever.

Nausicaa certainly has the best cast of voice actors for the English dub... admiral adama and captain Picard in the same movie!!!

I don't like answering requests but since Stray Dog can be so hard to find compared to most stuff: bakabt.me/torrent/130481/stray-dog-h264-live-action

The soundtrack is the only part of the movie everyone loves, Kenji kawai was in the zone on this one. It's a controversial movie but I love it.

No, because there is no such thing as the greatest animated movie. Or the greatest live action movie. Or the greatest video game. Or the greatest album.

bummer, no seeders. thanks though.

>no seeders
They're around since it's a tracker you have to register for, just not all the time. I'd be seeding but my current internet setup is awful. Might be about to get a nicer one soon though.

NO, this is

Behold, we have The Greatest Retard over here!

If anyone is in the mood for something different and not well known, try I Want to Return to That Day (Ano Hi ni Kaeritai). It's a follow-up to the TV series Kimagure Orange Road, but it's probably fine to watch without having seen it as it's very self-explanatory and even drops some major elements from the original that would have gotten in the way of the story.

The story is essentially a love triangle, or more specifically the end of a love triangle and the ensuing fallout. Very cinematic and understated. And very, very underrated (I've never seen anyone mention it).

silveremulsion.com/2012/05/09/stephen-reviews-kimagure-orange-road-i-want-to-return-to-that-day-1988/

It's a private tracker. You need to get a p2p client that isn't blacklisted.

>watching dubs
I will never understand this. Can you people not read or do you actually enjoy it?
I'm even more surprised when people watch dubs of live action movies and series, it looks and sounds so out of place when people speak.

What was retarded about what I said?

it says I'm not whitelisted. made an account on the site, but still says that.

>Is this the greatest animation kino to ever be made?

It's great, it's damn good. But it's not even in the top five.

Some dubs are actually good, like Bepop for example. I have no idea how good Miyazaki dubs are though.

how do I p2p? obviously I don't torrent usually.

It has five seeders and BakaBT either doesn't require registration or has open registration.

Disney was told they couldn't make any cuts so they fucked up the dubs instead. I heard they fixed some of it in later releases though.

Kimagure Orange Road is absolut kinographi. Not to mention also one of the key sources of future-funk visuals. I really like that soft featured look that a lot of mainstream anime had in the 80s. Honourable mention to Cream Lemon and Marmalade Boy.

I personally like dubs. They generally act as another layer of localisation, both in writing and performances. This is ideal cases though. For what I mean consider anything done by Manga Entertainment. They're easily the best at it. It's generally agreed that they lifted Cyber City Oedo 808 from a 5/10 to an 8/10 purely through their new audio (they redid the soundtrack too). Some things just sound strange when translated from Japanese to English and while an anime fan who watches a lot of the stuff gets used to these things for the casual viewer it can be very helpful.

>I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU FOR THIS
makes sense but doesn't sound like something someone would actually say. Which is why Manga Entertainment would change it to something like
>YOU FUUUUCKEEERRRRRR

>I am the grand mediator of all discussion, nothing is right and everything is opinion, except this
way to add absolutely nothing to the discussion.

what client are you using? Utorrent 2.2.1 is a very reliable one. Are you using something stupid like the latest Utorrent with all the ads and junk clogging up the sides?

Ghibli dubs are generally very high quality if a bit by the books since Disney realized that they had a sizeable audience and started hiring big name actors to stir up additional interest. They did first try to kill Ghibli in the west by botching the release of Nausicaa but then they eventually decided to play nice and share the money/audience.

Not as good as Princess Mononoke. Just to talk Studio Ghibli.

>what client are you using? Utorrent 2.2.1 is a very reliable one. Are you using something stupid like the latest Utorrent with all the ads and junk clogging up the sides?

ugh, yea, 3.4.3

xv-kun?

That's a comfy show and movie. Such an 80s gem.

That's not Watership Down

you aren't supposed to do that. I rate the value of my torrents based on the clients of the people using them. Not worth sharing data with 3.4.3 peons. You know you're seeding high-tier stuff when your peers are all on Deluge or Utorrent 2.2.1.

No, who's that? I get mistaken for a lot of people/things because I write so much.

>I personally like dubs. They generally act as another layer of localisation, both in writing and performances.
The original performances and script are part of the work like anything else.

>I am the grand mediator of all discussion, nothing is right and everything is opinion, except this
That's not what I said. I just said that there isn't any work that is absolutely and definitely better than anything else.

>Ghibli dubs are generally very high quality if a bit by the books
The storylines of Kiki and Spirited Away were altered by the dub. The characterization of Kiki's cat was also completely redone. If that's high quality then I'd hate to hear what bad quality sounds like.

Jin-Roh is trash.
And the Zeta pic lowers the value of your opinion.

>you aren't supposed to do that.

changing versions fixed it, thanks mang.

>Jin-Roh is trash.
Thank you.

>The original performances and script are part of the work like anything else
I know they're a part of the work. That's what localisation is, changing the original work for a new audience.

>That's not what I said
looks more or less like the gist of it, and your next sentence looks like just about the same thing again if you ask me.

>The storylines of Kiki and Spirited Away were altered by the dub
I think that as long as they're keeping the spirit of the work intact it's fine. It's clear that at least a bit of thought and passion went into those dubs.

>what bad quality sounds like
I think pretty much any mainstream anime dub now is pretty bad. The ones where they get the same 5 actors to play everybody doing the same handful of voices. I can't stand that. What bothers me in particular is the idea of the 'anime voice.' People who have been working in anime for so long that they've developed a distinctive style for doing it. What this gives us is actors who aren't trying to sound natural, or theatrical or whatever else in their portrayal of the given role. They're trying to sound like anime. It's a hard concept to get your head around unless you've already realized it yourself but it bothers me to no end.

>Jin-Roh is trash.
Can't argue with that. (I really can't. Unless you provide substance your post is pointless)
>And the Zeta pic lowers the value of your opinion
That's a gif. And Zeta is high-tier /m/-core. Ideon is Tomino's masterpiece but I still like Zeta a lot. It's obvious that the production was kind of a mess but Tomino got to get some cool ideas into the mainstream. I really like how morally ambiguous and generally not ideal at all he decided to make the Gundam setting.

np fampire

Are there any movies like Ninja Scroll or Vampire Hunter 2000? Looking for sleek, good-looking action movies that tell their plot through the characters and fights rather than exposition. Anyone seen the Highlander anime made by the same guy as Ninja scroll?

>That's what localisation is, changing the original work for a new audience.
And it's unnecessary unless you have some condition that prevents you from reading subtitles. If you need everything to be Americanized then don't even bother with anime.

People who watch live action foreign cinema take it for granted that things should be watched in their original state, but anime watchers have all kinds of excuses as to why the voices and script and even the music need to be changed. God forbid that they should be exposed to anything that's different.

>your next sentence looks like just about the same thing again if you ask me.
How?

>I think that as long as they're keeping the spirit of the work intact it's fine.
It's not fine. It's not the localizer's job to start rewriting the story any more than they have to.

>that list
>Ghost in the Shell 2 is a much better movie and The Red Spectacles is better than every animated movie he ever made
>Akira cyberpunk masterpiece

were you genetically engineered to be a pleb? fuck you

Perfect blue fags go home, da GOAT is coming through.

Its the most epic fantasy tale, but a few surpass it easily in both quality and story.

>Akira
>GITS
>Howl
>Mononoke
>SA
>Cowboy Bebop

It really inspired people to create great art also check out these doujins by Suzuki Dogezaemon, wonderful art and strangely arousing

Part 1
exhentai.org/g/573350/973dcf29a2/

Part 2
exhentai.org/g/589366/cbb0273966/

Part 3
exhentai.org/g/648887/118ec38f58/

I dont even watch a lot of anime but akira and EoE are my two favorite films of all time
Imagine if the japs had access to the same budget and technology as dreamworks and pixar

Sword of the Stranger.

Redline. You want Redline. That's the only one I can give you for sure. Aside from that maybe Afro Samurai and Sword of the Stranger. Your taste sounds pretty limiting here. Have you seen Akira? Everyone loves Akira.

>If you need everything to be americanized then don't even bother with anime
That's the thing, I don't but it's the reason why so many people don't bother with anime. If there were more high-quality dubs around more people would get to see cool stuff they normally wouldn't expose them to.

>people who watch live action foreign cinema take it for granted that things should be watched in their original state
tell that to Italy, or China, or India, or a shitload of other places. Lots of cultures consider it totally normal.

>How?
>there isn't any work that is absolutely and definitely better than anything else.
Does that not sound like
>nothing is right and everything is opinion, except this
to you?

>It's not the localizer's job to start rewriting the story any more than they have to
There's no official guidelines to this stuff. Once they have the rights they can do whatever they want. Whether or not they should could be discussed endlessly.

I bet your taste is all kinds of shit and that you don't even sincerely enjoy watching Genocyber at least four times a year. What do you know about science-fiction?

>all this talk about Oshii
>no mention of Patlabor 2

absolutely shameful

Why would you want them to make 3D movies?

>tell that to Italy, or China, or India, or a shitload of other places. Lots of cultures consider it totally normal.
I mean cinephiles. People who go out of their way to watch foreign movies.

>Does that not sound like
>nothing is right and everything is opinion, except this
>to you?
There's no basis for thinking that this one single movie is definitively better than any other movie ever made.

>Once they have the rights they can do whatever they want. Whether or not they should could be discussed endlessly.
No, it couldn't. Their job is to localize the movie, not rewrite it. They may also not have the right to do whatever, because the licensor may demand to approve the dub.

I'm just seeing a happy grizzly bear wtf?

That's the casual filter working

>I mean cinephiles
and I don't. Dubs aren't made for cinephiles, just like lots of other things. That doesn't mean they shouldn't exist.

>There's no basis for thinking that this one single movie is definitively better than any other movie ever made.
Well aren't you just the king of no fun then?

try lighting some incense and then giving a prayer of thanks to your computer's machine spirit.

I'm not talking about who dubs are made for, I'm talking about the differences in attitude.

there are 2 different time lines

Movie Timeline: Mobile Police Patlabor: Early Days (7 episodes) --> Patlabor: The Movie --> WXIII: Patlabor the Movie 3 --> Patlabor 2: The Movie

you can ignore the 3rd movie, it's not great and doesn't add anything
or the TV series which is much more laid-back

TV Timeline: Patlabor: The TV Series (47 episodes) --> Patlabor: The New Files (16 episodes)

I'd personally recommend the movies+ early days first and if you like that then try the TV series

The first one is a better movie. Patlabor 2 is like an animated essay with cameos from the Patlabor franchise.
It is a very pretty essay though, I'll give it that.

I think the third movie is good, it's just that it has barely anything to do with the series.

>cinephiles and people who refuse to watch stuff in foreign language have different attitudes
I think we can all agree on that. What's your point?

I already made my point:
>People who watch live action foreign cinema take it for granted that things should be watched in their original state, but anime watchers have all kinds of excuses as to why the voices and script and even the music need to be changed. God forbid that they should be exposed to anything that's different.

It's worth noting that it's standard practice in some countries to dub live-action things into local languages too. A few even have 'official' voices for certain actors that will dub them in all films and TV.

One good reason for watching dubbed anime is you don't have to put up with that weird Japanese thing where all women squeak and simper like 6 year old girls

Frankly, most shows and movies with that style of voice acting wouldn't be of interest to most of Sup Forums anyway.

Except you don't actually have to put up with it even if you watch in Japanese, because it's a meme and not a real thing.

But we've already established that that's not exclusive to anime fans at all, and a lot of anime fans dislike dubs very strongly. Your point is stupid and you should stop pushing it and any other conclusion you reached without any knowledge on the subject.

>One good reason for watching dubbed hentai is you don't have to put up with that weird Japanese thing where all women squeak and simper like 6 year old girls
I made your post make sense

That's demonstrably false and if I wasn't shitposting from a mobile device I would provide ample evidence.

I've never seen anyone defend live action dubbing like "anime fans" defend dubbing, and I've never seen people who go out their way to watch foreign cinema say they want to watch things dubbed.

>But it's not even in the top five.
which ones?

Nah mate. The first one is too conventional. This scene shits on anything from the first one.
youtube.com/watch?v=1dmlwhaEEgE

>I bet your taste is all kinds of shit and that you don't even sincerely enjoy watching Genocyber at least four times a year. What do you know about science-fiction?

GOAT science fiction: Nausicaa, GITS(1995), Patlabor 1,2 and FF: Spirits Within. Wings of Honneamise and GITS Innocence are garbage.

Satoshi Kon is reddit-tier

I'm ambivalent towards P2 because it's a good movie but not a good Patlabor movie.

Everything you listed as GOAT is reddit-tier

I enjoy Patlabor 2 but it's Oshii at the furthest up his own ass he's ever been. Conventional isn't inherently a bad thing and please don't try to pretend that the entire sequence in the middle with the detectives tracing the scientist's trail wasn't stunning in terms of mood, animation and atmosphere.

>Entire sequence
Entire sequence in the first movie, to be clear.

This doesn't really sound like a discussion worth having.

>I've never seen people who go out their way to watch foreign cinema say they want to watch things dubbed
First off anecdotal evidence is shit. Second how many people do you know who go out of their way to watch foreign cinema and are they all from more or less the same population sample? Do you know any Italians/Chinese/anybodywhosefirstlanguageisn'tenglish?

Now back to this main point which is the heart of the issue, what's wrong with dubbing? You say
>People who watch live action foreign cinema take it for granted that things should be watched in their original state
Yes, so what? Are you saying that these people are inherently superior to anime fans? And who even are these people?
and
>but anime watchers have all kinds of excuses as to why the voices and script and even the music need to be changed. God forbid that they should be exposed to anything that's different.
If they didn't like things that are different they wouldn't be watching anime. What's really lost in dubbing? Maybe the script changes a bit (which can happen in subs: see Angel Cop) and you get new performances. Is hearing somebody speaking a language that you don't understand and reading along to follow the plot really a new experience that dub watchers are missing out on? Is it a problem? I get that some performances are real good on a raw level above language (eg in Eva I think that the actress playing Shinji really sells the suffering) but I think it's still perfectly possible to watch the show dubbed and get the experience that Hideaki Anno intended for you to have and I don't think you can convince me otherwise.

>GOAT science fiction: Nausicaa, GITS(1995), Patlabor 1,2 and FF: Spirits Within. Wings of Honneamise and GITS Innocence are garbage
Wow. I bet you thought Prometheus was bad too you turbopleb. I'll give you a max character limit response on each of those movies by request if you want.

Bobby's In Deep is animekino and motorcyclekino

Hey, other Bobby's In Deep user! What's happening? It's me, the original one, if you didn't already guess from the walls of text that compose 2/3 of the thread.

>First off anecdotal evidence is shit.
I'm comparing anecdotal evidence vs. anecdotal evidence. I see "anime fans" rationalize dubs all the time, but I've never seen anything like it from the live action crowd.

>Are you saying that these people are inherently superior to anime fans?
Yes.

>If they didn't like things that are different they wouldn't be watching anime.
But they are watching it, and at the same time they require the safe familiarity of English voice acting.

>What's really lost in dubbing?
The original voice performances, the original script, the authenticity and the culture.

>Is hearing somebody speaking a language that you don't understand and reading along to follow the plot really a new experience that dub watchers are missing out on?
They are completely missing out on it since the original voice acting has been completely replaced.

The FLCL director put a huge amount of effort and deliberation into the casting. When I learned that, I felt it was almost disrespectful to watch the dub.

Thank
You

TAKE ONNNNNN MEEE

>Jin-Roh is trash
(You)

Will you tell me about Evangelion, Prometheus and Wings of Honneamise superior hidden meaning as well? Please enlighten me, sensei.

ayyyy
not much, id post some relevant webms if i wasn't on my phone

>anime "fans" who defend dubbing in any capacity whatsoever
just fucking KYS

Mononoke did most of the same things Nausicaa did except much better.

I got you covered fàm
youtube.com/watch?v=FPUIrnivDRE

Patlabor 2 takes more stylistic risks. It's the Chris Marker of anime. It engages you in a synaesthetic sense rather than conventional notions of narrative and character drama. The first movie is good though.

This
youtube.com/watch?v=9SxceXxrCrA

>kys

>I see "anime fans" rationalize dubs all the time, but I've never seen anything like it from the live action crowd
Again I get the impression here that you don't actually know any live action crowd. About half of Europe has no problem with rationalizing dubs, are there no true """""""""film fans"""""" among them?

>Yes
No, maybe. I don't know, can you fucking kill yourself

>they require the safe familiarity of English voice acting
Maybe they have trouble perceiving subtleties in Japanese performances and genuinely don't have anything added to their experience by original dubs. To people who don't have great language skills foreigners speaking can be more or less white noise to them. If they'd rather have a recognizable performances which doesn't exclude half of their utilized senses when taking in a piece of media I think that sacrificing a part of the creators original vision is reasonable.

>The original voice performances, the original script, the authenticity and the culture
This varies wildly from dub to dub but as somebody who is really into their anime I think I can safely say this isn't a problem in most cases.

>original performances
no shit
>original script
99% of the time it's the same thing just altered to sound natural in the new language
>authenticity and culture
this is really a case to case thing but I can't think of any examples where it matters

>They are completely missing out
I think I made my point badly, I'll try again. Is the casual anime viewer replacing subbed-moonspeak with a dub really robbing themselves of an experience? Either way you're getting the dialogue as interpreted by somebody else. The sub-guy didn't write it, and the Japanese VA is still just a guy reading the script in a booth. Maybe you prefer his take but in the end it's just another take.

Got you my man. I live for this stuff. Which order do you want?

>1:07
>dat rape face

that came out far more spoilered that it was meant to. Only meant to hide telling subs-user to kill himself. Don't know how that last spoiler mark hid from me.

Depends on the film really. Some of the Disney dubs are just plain awful, but you're cheating yourself if you don't watch the dub of Howl's Moving Castle, for example.

>Again I get the impression here that you don't actually know any live action crowd.
I do.

> don't know, can you fucking kill yourself
For stating a fact?

>Maybe they have trouble perceiving subtleties in Japanese performances and genuinely don't have anything added to their experience by original dubs. To people who don't have great language skills foreigners speaking can be more or less white noise to them. If they'd rather have a recognizable performances which doesn't exclude half of their utilized senses when taking in a piece of media I think that sacrificing a part of the creators original vision is reasonable.
I'm not talking about people who have cognitive problems.

>This varies wildly from dub to dub but as somebody who is really into their anime I think I can safely say this isn't a problem in most cases.
The dub fully replaces the original voices, the script has to be fully replaced, and in the vast majority of cases you end up with Japanese people speaking English in Japan.

>99% of the time it's the same thing just altered to sound natural in the new language
It's not the same thing.

>this is really a case to case thing but I can't think of any examples where it matters
Of course you can't. You don't even care.

>Is the casual anime viewer replacing subbed-moonspeak with a dub really robbing themselves of an experience?
Yes.

>Either way you're getting the dialogue as interpreted by somebody else. The sub-guy didn't write it, and the Japanese VA is still just a guy reading the script in a booth. Maybe you prefer his take but in the end it's just another take.
It's the original take directed by the original production team, reading from a script prepared by the original production team.

I think Christian Bale was a little out of his element dubbing.

this order: Nausicaa, GITS(1995), Patlabor 1,2 and FF: Spirits Within. Wings of Honneamise and GITS Innocence

Wait, you meant those ones? Damn that's no fun. I wanted to talk Prometheus.

It's like you're trying to kill discussion here. Look how fucking big the parts you're quoting are compared to what you're posting. And look at your answers, they aren't counter-points. Your aim just seems to be to shut down point rather than reach a conclusion.

Let's cover what seems like actual substance here
> I do know live-action crowd who only watch subs
I don't even remember why this was brought up now, something about anime fans being stupid faggots. Even if let's say that every single live-action film fan on the planet has exquisite-perfect 11/10 taste and refuses to watch a single dub in their whole life does that invalidate anime dubbing in any way?

>For stating a fact
>live-action-subs fans are better people than anime-dubs fans

>cognitive problem
It's not a cognitive problem to be able to interpret your own language better than a foreign one. It's a skill if you can follow a second language as well as your first. And then you disregarded everything else there which is really the heart of this thing.

Some people simply don't get anything out of hearing Japanese, no matter how flawless the performances are it just doesn't really do anything for some people, and it's not because they're mentally inferior, some people just don't like it. I personally think I can get the gist of what's going on in another language and enjoy it just as well but some people are bothered by having to read or are just more engaged with English/less engaged with Japanese. I sometimes even watch anime in Italian just to see how they do it.

I'd like to see you take another look at that paragraph and not draw one point from it that isn't even there and then dismiss the rest.

>in the vast majority of cases you end up with Japanese people speaking English in Japan.
So? With their dubs you end up with Japanese speaking Englishmen. What's the problem?