What evidence is there that transgenderism or gender dysphoria is NOT a mental illness?
Wherever i see this stated, in reputable sources even, it is never backed up with evidence or research
I understand the de-medicalisation of homosexuality as it does not motivate people to mutilate their bodies
also i wonder how common gender identity issues are in communities that dont have time to worry about 1st world problems?
your thoughts Sup Forums?
Other urls found in this thread:
washingtonpost.com
theatlantic.com
twitter.com
I think you are thinking about it too much
I don't have an issue with transgender, I have an issue with the botch job that doctos are passing off as "making you into a woman". Until someone comes up with a surgery/hormones that gives you a true functioning vagina and feminine features rather than a mutilated fuck hole, its going to be an immoral money grab on the part of doctors.
Also, Bruce Jenner wasn't brave, he was a rich asshole who could drop enough cash to look passible.
There's a study that shows hyperfeminized brains sometimes occur in males
well its either a problem or its fine. if it is a mental disorder then doctors shouldnt be reaching straight for the hormones the the second little jimmy says he wants to be called jaime
also it instantly makes parents that encourage gender identity conflicts instantly child abusers
even on the nhs, and brittanica websites it just says "strong feelings" blah blah - this isnt evedence of anything surely?
Doesnt anyone with a mental disorder have strong feelings about their disorder?
is it the case that the issue has been so politicised that its impossible to have impartial research published?
To summarize, it is a metal disorder, but the current treatment is at worst a cash grab, at best a lazy solution.
What's up bro?
Fucking professional psychfag reporting in...I have to say I agree with you 1000%. Church.
but does everyone that gets the chop have a hyperfeminized brain? and does a hyperfeminized brain always mean gender identity disorder?
also isnt gender a social construct rather than a biological state?
my thoughts are that im a dude that likes being a dude so i give absolutely zero fucks about what other people want to do with their bodies. cut off your dick, get fake tits, staple a fucking kangaroo tale to your ass i really don't care as long as youre not forcing anyone else to do it
it is a 1st world problem.
few doors left to open, no walls left to bring down, nothing for the poor teenager to revolt against. so they revolt against reality. physics. biology. mark my words, gravity is next.
passable? you faggot
i think the term "mental disorder" is like the term "addiction"
its only a problem if it's hurting your quality of life or the quality of the lives around you
don't say church, it makes sound like a loser faggot.
...
op here, i'm not telling anyone to do anything and i'm not asking everyone if they are comfortable with their bodies
i'm only questioning whether this any proof that surgery and hormones is right course of action or whether this has become the goto and societal norm due to pressure groups and lobbyists
> teenager: I'm getting a piercing
> dad: OK, do as you want
> teenager: eeerm, I'm getting a tatto
> dad: cool
> teenager: on my face
> dad: good for you!
> teenager: I'm skipping school to try heroin
> dad oh I loved those times, have fun son!
> teenager: DON'T CALL ME SON!
> dad: ?
> teenager: just because I have a penis doesn't mean I'm your son! call me "daughter"
and finally he managed to get what he wanted: puzzled looks and some resistance.
substitute "teenager" to spoiled jobless bored 1st world junk and "dad" to... erm... well, the state and goverment are actually supporting this shit SJW crap, so to average normal rational people, I guess. and voilá, you have California.
when I can get sued for calling a man "sir", or when my 10-year-old daughter has to look at "women"'s dangling dicks in the changing room at the pool, it is hurting me.
thank you for that
fukken this
Bullshit anecdote much faggot?
THIS
why even bother separating male and female changing rooms when women will be made to see male bodies getting changed and males can see female bodies getting changed
this is surely one of the rare instances where outside appearances is incredibly important and nobody gives a fuck what your strong feelings are
Washington Post ok source, faggy?
OPEN YOUR EYES! This shit is real.
interestingly phrased "if thats the pronoun they demand that you use"
so you would need to prove first of all that you demanded that pronoun was used and then prove that they used the one you dont want to be used AFTER you demanded it
sounds like a nice days work for lawyers this one
well played american lawmakers, well played
>when I can get sued for calling a man "sir"
which, surprise, has never happened, and
>when my 10-year-old daughter has to look at "women"'s dangling dicks in the changing room
>it is hurting me
sounds like you're the one who needs a safe space
>requires employers[, landlords, and all businesses and professionals] to use an [employee’s, tenant’s, customer’s, or client’s] preferred name, pronoun and title
>Intentional or repeated refusal to use an individual’s preferred name, pronoun or title
i'd agree it's retarded to be able to be fined over that, but it's like you didn't even read the article
But they are mental disorders, check DSM 5
>when my 10-year-old daughter has to look at "women"'s dangling dicks in the changing room
>it is hurting me
>sounds like you're the one who needs a safe space
sounds like you dont have children
I'm a white male, heterosexual, "cisgendered" (bullshit word; I also don't think I'm Napoleon, so I guess cisidentityedister). Also, worst of all, I'm Christian, but I have learnt my lesson, I usually keep this dark little secret to myself. The other facts are harder to hide.
I don't hate homosexuals. I don't hate immigrants. I voulanteer (1-2 hours weekly) at an organization helping in Africa (DRC to be precise). I respect, love and admire women, especially my wife and soon to be born daughter. I'm good at "manly" things, like fixing things or making things. My wife loves the tables and cabinets I have made for our place. She cooks, because she enjoys cooking (and, yes, enjoys feeding me), not because I expect her to do so. She has a good job, earns as much as I do (works a bit more though; different line of work), but she will give it up for a few years to stay home with our daughter once she is born. We decided this together.
I really don't understand why I should apologize for all of the above. I don't feel ashamed.
Yet I'm supposed to???
I'm not the danger.
I'm in danger.
first step.
>put on the yellow star.
>move to the designated habitation area (ghetto)
>now we relocate you to labor camps
>now we relocate you to a labor camp in Poland
>if you could please step into this room and breath deeply, thank you
first step.
Homosexual behavior is common in mammals, taking on a female appearance or more typically a body stance for this purpose is also common in mammals.
Sexuality as a core aspect of identity is socially engineered garbage, in fact I would say most of these people's own best arguments for their own legitimacy are also the best arguments for why many of the things they do and think are unnecessary. It is clear to me that the need for it to become an identity is some kind of sociopolitical ailment. Really, there's no convincing evidence that sexual behavior matters very much, not only is there no reason to dislike any of but, there is also no need to aggrandize it to the uninterested and parade it as a political identity.
People who make gender, race or sexual preference core to their identity should be openly mocked by scientists until they realize how ultimately futile their politics are.
It doesn't hurt anyone or have a negative effect on anyone's life like say schizophrenia so it doesn't really matter
What fucking changing rooms do you have where groups of people are getting naked together?
wrong.
just wrong.
few mammals practice sex for fun (bonobo and human; dolphins are debated). so everywhere else the comparison is deeply flawed. and even if, it is more like a form of dominance establishment (nothing sexual in the sense we, humans use it), or simple masturbation (dogs have been around us for too long).
thinking you are a woman when you clearly aren't is hurting you. you can live happier if you accept and embrace who and what you are.
unfortunately identifying homosexuality in animals is simply attributing human attributes to animals rather than trying to understand what is happening
males of many species of animal will mount and mate with other males, this is simply to do with hormones or imposing dominance and nothing about settling down or a partnership
animals have strong biological urges to reproduce and this frames a lot of their behaviour. humans have the luxury of removing the probems of where to find enough food and therefore are able to contemplate issues such as who they choose a partner. however the biological drives are still there to be seen when you look at childbirth
Please give a *non circular* definition of "mental illness"
>pro tip: you can't
psychiatric concepts are political in nature
emm; you got them mixed up there, kiddo. nowadays, liberal politicians are telling scientists and doctors how to do their jobs, and not the other way around. which is sad. brave new world you are creating here.
Says who? Some cunt on a chinese cartoon website?
The fuck do you care if someone wants to put on a dress change their name to Sharonda or whatever.
Do you not have any real problems to worry about?
>psychiatric concepts are political in nature
nope.
you WANT it to be, but in reality they are based on well researched facts
use your imagination retard
i take it you've never heard of or been to school changing rooms, swimming pools, spa's and gyms
try stepping out of your basement once in a while and live life
and you think a girl seeing a flaccid penis is going to fuck them up more than seeing a 90 year old woman naked?
Are you one of those "nudity is inherently sexual" autistics?
I don't care.
as long as he is not trying to tell me how to behave, talk or think. as long as he is not using my social security money to undergo pricey surgery. as long as he is not telling doctors and scientists how to do their jobs. as long as he is not trying to tell schools how to educate children. as long as he is not trying to ban teachers from referring to parents as "mom" or "dad".
unfortunately, we are way past a line here. they are interfering with my life. I didn't start this shit. I'm defending myself and my rights.
Kys cuck
this doesn't address my concerns.
How the fuck gayness is supposed to be a disease? Do people DIE directly from being gay (agression from other people don't count)?
Are they handiccaped in any way (it is not like blindness)?
Psychiatric disorders are just an arbitrary list which change because of political agenda even including votes. There is no such thing in any science.
>they are interfering with my life.
How about you give a specific example you spastic retard
Reality testing, faggot. Go read a book you cuck.
yep, a 6-7-8-9 year old can get wounded by a a "woman" jerking off in the shower. I'm a man, and I was 13 when I saw an idiot jerking off in the public shower in the pool changing room, but it wasn't a fun experience. try explaining it to an 8 year old girl. that that was a lady in the shower jerking "her" dick.
but yeah, even if not jerking, man wtf? XX or XY? XY? get the fuck out of the XX changing room!
ITT: a bunch of edgy faggots try to claim that transgendered people don't exist simply because they don't feel transgender, and therefore don't understand it.
You recognize that a body can be born between genders, or even the wrong gender, right? (Women with XY chromosomes and such). These things are established fact, though not the norm.
Then why is it so hard to believe that brains are any different.
Biology is a messy soup of DNA and mistakes. That's how you got here. There is no gold standard - if having three genders carried an evolutionary advantage, we would have evolved into three prominent genders by now. Trans people aren't hurting you, and many are more intelligent and successful than you.
Get over it. There's millions of transgender people in the world, and they are just as valid as you are.
>jerking off in the shower
public masturbation is still illegal you stupid faggot
It is a mental illness. The term is broad. Plus, the 'cure' is to allow them to be who they want.
Not really hard to understand.
not talking about gayness. genderism.
please do the googling yourself, psychology and psychiatry are sciences. do I really need to link a google page for you, basement-dweller philosopher?
Also, it's not normal to fantasize and day dream about being the other sex constantly. Cis people don't do that. Cis people are perfectly happy with their birth gender.
If you find most of the time you are preoccupied with thoughts about being the other sex, congratulations! You're fucking transgender! Now deal with it.
Nah, you're wrong m8. The entire behavioral apparatus would only evolve to functionality and not perfection. If you're not observing homosexuality in a mammal species there's a reason the behavior system removed it. The more complex and strict the behavior system the more it "costs" in the economics of evolution. Gays are the inevitable noise in a system in which signal clarity is entirely secondary to signal complexity - so much so I suspect Kinsey is right, everyone is more or less some degree of bisexual. I mean, think about it, you have to get a girl pregnant to be evolutionarily relevant - not be perfect, not be cool, not be alpha - just get laid.
>Women with XY chromosomes and such
nope. this is a linguistics problem, then.
XX->female->totally different in many ways.
childhood trauma can cause rare disorders, but it is treatable.
what is happening now in the USA is purely a fashion thing. just bullshit. you'll grow out of it like you did from hippieism.
There's still hippies all the fuck over the place
>I think
Well it isnt an argument anymore and anything you say is practically invalid because it isn't backed up by facts.
›chinese cartoon website
good bait.
›sharonda
found the black tranny
Well, it probably is one. But we have no means to fix their brains so transition is the best we can do to make them feel a little better while on this earth. I'm not trans, but I am mentally ill, so I can sympathize a bit. It fucking blows, and any little thing that can bring down the pain, no matter how small is welcome to us. We only got one life anyway. As long as you don't go around fucking up other people's lives.
Some therapists are getting a bit liberal with the diagnoses though. Legit trans cases that need transition are rarer than this. That's just gonna have blowback.
Reality testing is great, it is the foundation of science. However psychiatry talks about "good mind" states and "bad mind states", and try to force people's mind to go from a "bad state" to a "good one" (remove these keys ideas about good/bad and psychiatry vanishes).
"GOOD" AND "BAD" ARE NOT SCIENTIFIC WORDS, NEVER. THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH COLD HARD FACTS, THEY ARE ONLY MORAL AND SO TOTALLY ARBITRARY.
It is impossible to say "it s GOOD if 30% electrons are detected in that experiment", or "this gaz condensates at 300 °K is BAD and we test it", it is deeply nonsensical.
Don't worry most people came here after the reddit invasion, you don't stick out to most posters.
Yes, obviously gender identity disorder is a thing.
If you a born with a penis and think it's a vagina, something is wired wrong in your brain...
>Bruce Jenner looks passable
Said nobody ever
wow that made no sense :)
did you understand the thing about sexuality? how do you talk about "gay behaviour" in a species where sex is like eating or shitting, just a biological function? comparing human behavioural patterns to animals to get reassurance... man..
just deal with it. some people chose to be gay, or turned out that way. no big deal. ITT we are not even talking about them. nobody cares. they are gay, so be it. have fun.
and yes, there are rare genetic disorders in animals, and some of this might produce a "gay" animal. which will kindly exclude it's (in evolutionary terms) defective DNA from the future generations. so what? what does this have to do with anything in the modern western gender movement?
So you are saying if I think I'm Napoleon Bonaparte, it is cheaper to give me a castle and a small army and let me play then to treat me? Cool. You paying?
There is no science behind this statement, male and femAle brains are exactly the same Nice trips
Nah you're wrong mate.
Actually, organism vs organism natural selection has been dead for a while now. Thousands of years actually since we invented writing and massive civilizations emerged as a consequence.
Now humans evolve in large numbers, together. It's civilization vs civilization, not 'alpha vs alpha'. In cultures where they embrace transgender people and all other LGBT variants, they find they have a significant educational and brain power advantage (Europe. Silicon Valley, Japan). Meanwhile, Stone Age Fuck wits like the Middle East who stone their LGBT people are only first works because we allow them to be.
Transgender people evolved in collective evolution because their brains were useful to civilization. If they weren't useful to a civilization, most first world civilizations wouldn't be filled with them.
Evolution is not an opinion. There are millions of transgendered people, and tolerance and acceptance of them is a great metric for how advanced your society is.
i don't know who to tell
That's the stupidest shit ever said by anyone.
Having actually transitioned from male to female, and having felt first hand the differences between a brain on testosterone and one on estrogen, what you just said is absurd. (Absent the other mountain of scientific data).
Men and women absolutely do NOT have the same brains, nor will the same brain running of of male or female hormones function the same.
This is established science; you don't get to have an opinion on this.
Im not the guy you replied to im just a random Sup Forumsro.
Anyways you are clearly not understanding his point,what he stated before hand is proof that they are interfering with his life by trying to inflict as much change as they can to suit their needs as mentally ill people.
You can look up what he said on google,it is true and it is ongoing therefore it is bothering his and my normal life. (Especially if you have kids)
No, silly. We can treat YOUR condition.
Nice try, though.
just one article:
theatlantic.com
just one quick google, all you need to do next time. male and female brains work different. period.
just one example maybe even you can understand: evolution, ancient times, men hunting, women gathering.
-> colour blind women less likely even today
-> searching for things is done totally differently by men and women. men use image matching, women identify each object. everyone has experience with this when a man can't find something and a woman goes there and finds it immediately. seriously, you liberals talk about science, but all you know is basement-philosophy you dreamt up yourself.
just do some research before you embarass yourself.
out of arguments, I see. well, good day to you then, sir! oh sorry, zir or zeh or quh or whatever the fuck you thinks makes you special, little snowflake.
>look up anecdotes from sperging retards
No thanks
>to look passible.
Ah. no
What makes you think transgenders came about due to evolution? I'd love to see any shred of evidence to back that up, but I'm not exactly holding my breath in suspense.
Even if transgenderism is rooted in genetics you're still full of shit for calling it an "evolution," which it no more is than down syndrome or any other genetic disorder.
>Washington Post ok source, faggy?
A law made by insane people is not "proof" ask Hitler or Kim Jong Il
How many people with Down syndrome hold advanced programming jobs at Google, retard? While you're masturbating to /d/, actual transgender people are doing things for society.
Maybe your obese neckbeard syndrome is the problem mutation, and not transgender people?
Also, because your kind is especially thick - we all got here from evolution fuckwit. If it wasn't useful, it wouldn't exist in large numbers across many successful societies. When you have lots of transgender people doing brainy things across lots of first world countries, you can't help but notice a trend.
Do you know who is intolerant of transgender people? Modern cultural masterpieces like Alabama and Saudi Arabia (i.e. Places no one actually wants to live because they fucking suck).
>psychiatric concepts are political in nature
Cannibalism is cannibalism
Serial killing is serial killing
What now, sjw ?
Welp...if there are in fact "millions" of transgendereds...then we need to get someone like Hitler back in power to fire up those ovens. Oh. Wait...we already did that! Happy Inauguration Day, Faggot. Fire up the ovens!!!
>and many are more intelligent and successful than you.
Heh. (citation needed) exactly one rich abomination (Jenner) doesn't make this true.
Are you retarded?
>Yes.
No one gives a fuck about your feelings, tranny.
Mein Nigger.
People like you deserve to go live in Saudi Arabia or Siberia, while the rest of us actually get to live in the first world.
Places that are intolerant of transgender people are almost universally giant shitholes. I can only imagine that you live in one, and insulting them is the only thing that makes you feel better about your steadily expanding lard rolls from the gallons of sweet tea you and Jasper swig every night with your Bojangles chicken.
>nor will the same brain running of of male or female hormones function the same.
Except there arewomen with high amounts of testoteron and men with high amounts of estrogen.
Blue hair dye, piercings, and a shit sense of entitlement and superiority do not make a first world. Go cut yourself, snowflake.
Closeted faggots like you don't give a fuck about science or reality either, apparently. Why don't you go masturbate to Blacked.com and cry into your pillow while the rest of us actually go build the next useful innovation in society, hmmm?
>large numbers
Guaranteed to be false. Not like 5% of the population. And if it's so useful why are they killed in Africa and Arabia ?
I did laugh at the Bojangles and sweet tea though. Tip of the fedora, faggot.
Then why don't you go use a website designed by someone from your home state of Mississippi? Oh, because there aren't any.
Every good thing in your life came from either a transgender person or a state tolerant of them.
You're just a useless neckbeard in a world that literally doesn't need you, and in which you can't possibly contribute. Maybe if you'd step out of that hate nest and go interact with something other than your mom's dirty lingerie, you might grow a bit.
>your thoughts...worst place in the world to ask questions?
/thread
Let's be real...the only closeted faggots in this thread are the ones willing to cut off their dicks because they're too much of a pussy to admit they want to inhale cock like a Hoover vacuum.
You don't really understand evolutionary biology and you're thinking in fundamentalist terms. You might try actually accepting evolution as true while thinking about it, think about how the functions of lifeforms developed from more generalized, earlier lifeforms. Evolution doesn't make perfect, fundamental solutions and they only exist that way in your mind. You're only used to seeing the top halves of sunlight collecting fractal-shaped plants everywhere because to you a tree is a normal, everyday concept. Evolved solutions are always produced from the general to the specific and consequently specific forms and behaviors only need be as specific as the pressure they're evolved in response to is specific.
I'm right and you're relatively poorly read on this topic. The amount of things I would to explain to you to do this properly is staggering.
It's gene-centric reasoning, when I say mammal I am mainly referring to K-type replicators. I am also not advocating for trans suppression, I am advocating for maturity. Nobody should care, it's as simple as that. The cost of caring and attempting to regulate it is too high for something that will likely do and change absolutely nothing. What would change something good is an end to identity politics because it is an arena where the majority will always win, at this point SJW are just shoveling coal into the enemy's boiler by trying to fight for a place in a system of values that has no useful purpose and a tremendous upkeep.
Daily reminder that the new US vice president will electrocute the faggotry out of his country.
Every good thing in your life came from either a transgendereds person or a state tolerant of them.
>coastal faggot confirmed.
Sorry bruv, I'm too busy crushing a sex sandwich with your sister and cousin while you pretend to be asleep and silently jerk off under the covers.
FIRE UP THE OVENS!!!
Lol, alright. I didn't say I was against transgender people, I was just pointing out you have a shit understanding of evolutionary processes and are an idiot to assume that transgender individuals are products of evolution, when evolution only occurs when selective pressures exist, which don't exist for humans anymore. So any genetic abnormality can grow and flourish, not just the suseful ones.
Case In point- Steven Hawkings' has a deformed body because of his genetics but he can still contribute to society in spite of it. But just because he can be a successful individual doesn't mean ALS is suddenly an "evolution" instead of a genetic disease. And until we find out for sure what causes transgenderism, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest transgenderism is any different.
Yeah that's bad
what shall i do?
You're a fucking idiot. Of course selection pressures exist, but they are (as I said) civilization vs civilization based. Each human in a civilization is like a cell in a larger body, and those cells are born and used to further the goal of their larger form.
Civilizations absolutely are clashing. And in successful cultures like America, we have lots of freedom to breed specialized cells which do all sorts of cool things - like design the very website you're using.
Also, there aren't millions of people with ALS working in tech in Silicon Valley. But there *are* millions of trans people here. Your comparison is dumb, and I'm gonna need you to flex all 70 of your IQ points to understand why.
impossible