French & German people, what are you honest thoughts on the EU?

French & German people, what are you honest thoughts on the EU?
I'm a UKfag and fully support Brexit, not because I'm a small minded little Englander but for control and sovereignty. I don't believe countries will stop trading with us, they still need to sell us their goods just as much as we need to sell them ours. The EU does seems to be acting like a rabbit in the headlights at the minute throwing around threats to discourage others from leaving so I wondered what the French & Germans think of the EU? France has got their elections soon, along with Germany and Italy this year I believe as well. Any Germans hear stupid enough to vote in Merkle again? Is the EU in as good a shape as they would like you to believe
Discuss.
Picture related.

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Fuck off, and stay the fuck out, have fun with the new trade tariffs.
Also have fun as the City funds and banks leave for Ireland and Luxenbourg.

>inb4 EU need the UK more than the opposite

cuck detected

Fuck you. Switzerland also isn't in the eu and things are going much better than anywhere else in europe. Go out and get yourself blown up by some rapefugees. Thats what you get from being in the eu

Europe was a good thing until liberals.

Because the richest hide their money in your banks, your faggot country wouldn't survive without them.

OP here.
There won't be trade tariffs otherwise we'll put trade tariffs on other countries which will negate any tariffs in the first place.
I'm really after what other Europeans think of the current state of the EU, but I can get in to a slanging match if you want.

As a Frenchfag i love uk but i've always felt like they thought they were too good for us. I'm not surprised you left and also a bit disappointed since Europe is a dream of peace of cooperation and you just left at the first difficulties. I'm not mad tho, uk's always been acting this way.

Might be right or wrong. I still think European unity is something to preserve.

>fully support Brexit,
Haha, fucking moron. Let me elaborate.
> I don't believe countries will stop trading with us
Of course not, but to an extent. Brits will always need goods that they cannot generate themselves, and as long as there's money to be made, it'll happen. But things will be more expensive for you. The bigger problem, however, with you losing access to the EU internal market is that and a significant proportion of the 'goods' will go elsewhere. I say 'goods' because a large part of what is driving your economy is non-material, as in, stock trading and facilitating transactions on the main land. This type of trading will become much more expensive to do in London, so it'll probably move to Frankfurt or Dublin. It's easy to move because essentially it doesn't matter where it happens (because it's digital trading) as long as trading taxes are low.

Aside from that, you'll lose access to all kinds of EU subsidies for science. That may seem unimportant to you, but in the long run it'll significantly stagnate technological development for British companies, because inevitably the science is going to be done elsewhere. You'll lose expertise, because there will be fewer jobs in science and so people will go to the mainland for work. I'm in neuroscience, and some of my friends working in the UK are already making plans to move to Germany or Netherlands.

Most idiotic of all things, immigration (despite what UKIP wants you to believe) is good for economic development in the long run. Especially in countries like Germany (and the UK) where birth counts are low, you need an influx of young people to combat population ageing and keep the buffers of pension funds sustainable.

>There won't be trade tariffs otherwise we'll put trade tariffs on other countries which will negate any tariffs in the first place.
Yeah. So we'll have trade tariffs both ways. That's inevitable.

You're begging us not to punish you after what you just did. How long untill you realise you are not above us.

The subsidies you think the EU so 'generously' gives the UK is just half the 20 billion we give them each year so I don't think we're going to lose out too much there.
As for immigration, we're not saying we want to cut ourselves off but have controlled immigration, something that few people seem to understand.

Fully support, you got a point.

I'd agree with everything except the immigration part, the low population problem must be resolved from within, importing large masses of unqualified immigrants wont be supporting any pension funds as their salaries will come from unqualified work which generates low salaries and consequently low deductions.

Amerifat here. Sounds like a lot of butthurt itt. Seems like they're pissed because you left their circle jerk... I don't understand all this globalization stuff. It benefits in the short term, but can cause problems in the long run, and ends up being like an arms run or a colonization-like clusterfuck.

We wish you good luck out on your own, we can still be friends.

One of the big arguments seems to be other EU members citizens won't be able to work here. What I think should happen is all the lazy cunts who claim benefits are TOLD that they do the jobs or no FREE MONEY. If we then need an extra 50.000 people we let 50.000 people in to the UK. We don't need to be taking in 300.000 extra people every year.

>The subsidies you think the EU so 'generously' gives the UK is just half the 20 billion we give them each year so I don't think we're going to lose out too much there.
The British government will compensate scientific institutions for only two years. After that, they lose funding. The government probably could pay for it, but the reality is that they won't.

>As for immigration, we're not saying we want to cut ourselves off but have controlled immigration, something that few people seem to understand.
It's already controlled. You want to make it stricter, which is your right of course, but it'll hurt the economy in the long run.

The reality is that even if you import unqualified workers, their children tend to gain higher salaries due to better education than their parents and consequently contribute more. This is a multi-generation effect, not one that manifests itself immediately. Aside from that, of course it'd be good if birth counts were to go up natively, but that's rather difficult to manage.

As a frenchfag I can't stop to laugh at britbongs and their damage control.
Yes, the EU is a nasty neo-liberal institution that make our governments its bitches but there is no other way.
UK has lost all its diplomatic influence except their veto at the UN's security council. The strenght UK had was to be able to speak from the EU and as USA's first allies. Now USA under Trump presidency is not interested in NATO nor about what happens in Europe...
UK cucked themselves with that brexit and nothing of value was lost for the EU...

>large masses of unqualified immigrants
>this Sup Forums meme
Most migrants have superior education degrees, are young and willing to work harder than anybody else.

>I don't understand all this globalization stuff
kinda ironic since your nation pioneered it

>superior education

Yet the cunts still can't speak English.

Well then user does that mean I have to believe in it? I haven't really been a fan of any of its iterations past some small scale agreements.

Cheese eating surrender monkey, OP here. I think you'll find there is another way, as we proved with our referendum. Saying there is no other way just shows you're still cheese eating surrender monkey, but now you're cucks as well.
So out of interest, who are you voting for in May?

German here.
I hate the EU since they waste money even more than individual countrys and aren´t even realy democratic.
The €uro was a misstake, we can´t unite countrys with different inflation ratios under one currency.

Free trade on the other hand has its benefits and should stay.

>Well then user does that mean I have to believe in it?
It most certainly does not.

The thing is, the EU is in large parts responsible for keeping globalization in check. The people you hear complaining about globalization often in the same breath complain about EU regulations, when it's those regulations that protect small businesses and, ultimately, consumers.

>Is the EU in as good a shape as they would like you to believe

If anything, the EU will get stronger now that the UK is finally out.
As much as I like the English people, the UK, and specifically England, have been sabotaging the EU for decades, trying as much as possible to turn it into a Thatcherian/Reaganian shithole, which is one of the reasons people are so defiant nowadays about the EU.
Speaking of which, it's fucking hilarious listening to Britons whining about immigrants, when it's the UK itself that opposed giving the EU the tools it needed to strengthen its borders.

Regardless, the EU isn't only about establishing an internal market, it's about ensuring European cultural and geopolitical independence.
I've travelled enough to realise that Europeans have more in common than they think, which is only logical when you know two fucks about the history of Europe.
There's obvious cultural differences, but these are mostly cosmetic and behavioural, Europeans have core values distinguishing them from the rest of the world, including Western places such as the US, and these values are endangered by existing or growing powers such as the US, China, or even India, Russia and Africa in a forseeable future.

Anyone not realising that the EU is the only way to ensure our political and economic freedom and our survival as a culture is an ignorant and narrowminded fool digging Europe's grave while boasting about
>muh nation
>muh independence
>muh great history

>aren´t even realy democratic
did you vote for the European elections?

...

As a german, i want a better eu than this

Has to be More Reich

>controlled immigration,
>colonizes literally half the planet
>complains about immigration
kek, never change britbongs, never change

Don't get me wrong, there are undeniable benefits from it, such as that, but there are definitely drawbacks, and oftentimes, when you lift one side of the see saw, the other goes down.

A+ for that post user

>there are benefits
>and there are drawbacks
Congratulations, you've described pretty much anything that ever existed. The point with the EU is that the benefits vastly outweigh the drawbacks.

I'm far from being a Sup Forumstard but that's absolutely false.
Working hard probably, being in any way qualified not really. Not to mention language and culture barrier.

Kek.
Now you've got Merkle turning it in to an Islamic shit hole.

I'm not that user, and you're probably right in general, but I'd just wanted to add that the other guy is actually correct when it comes to the current wave of Syrian immigrants. The ones who made it over here were wealthy enough to pay for the trip, and those are typically the best educated people.

>European elections

That's one of the main problems of the EU, only trolls and national parties left overs go to the European parliament.
No cares about them because their only power is to talk and manage bureaucracies.

I think EU would have best fared if it would have stayed a fucking trade union, nothing more, nothing less. Free travel all through europe is a nice feature too. Sucks you guys left, I like you, but I can understand, probably would have voted for brexit if I was from the UK.

Meanwhile, in reality, not even 5% of the European population is Muslim.

You are a prick.

I'd explain why, but I'd be wasting my time...

Prick.

That map is complete bullshit

I think Germany and France should leave the EU as well, because all other EU-countries are trash

> To vote for presidential elections
> Implying it matters
> Implying people actually still vote
I'm gonna try to make the revolution live again. Last year was good (4 months of weekly riots) and we may have another ride.
We're currently bitch slapping/throwing flour/disrupt rallies of the candidates

So you comblain about lack of democracy, yet you refused to vote in it's literal democratic election. Think about that for a second.

Ideally yes, but I don't think it does outweigh all the costs practically.

>aren´t even realy democratic

The European institutions literally work like any other liberal democracy in Europe.
The European Parliament is elected and voting the law.
The Commission is akin to your own government, it's elaborating laws, and just like our national governments and their ministers, it isn't elected but appointed.
The European Council setting the general direction is made of elected heads of state/government.
Etc.

If anything, the EU is more democratic than most of our countries, along with the aforementioned similar democratic structure, the elaboration of European laws goes through a lenghty process involving several steps asking the opinion and input of the whole european civil society.
The problem is, and that's a real problem, most people don't understand how it works, because they don't give a fuck about it, and/or they are brainwashed by the medias and/or stereotypes about the EU, and/or the whole process isn't clear enough to most people.
So they don't get involved with that process, and whine when things are finally set in motion and goes against what they'd like.

Btw, it's hilarious to hear Britons whine about the lack of democracy in the EU, when half of their own parliament, the House of Lords, is made of unelected aristocrats.

Whelp, then I'm sorry to say, but you're either an idiot or simply not informed enough.

scotsman here.

I think we're screwed for a simple logical reason:

the EU can't afford for the UK to be in a better position after Brexit than it is now, with respect to trade and free movement. If we were in a better position every other country would also want to leave, leading to the demise of the EU.

Therefore we have to be in a worse position than we are now, or at best a comparable one.

You're living on a frickin small island without natural resources. What do you actually want to sell to EU ?

The ones that came BEFORE the war, yes they were educated and had the foresight to leave in time, the ones that come after the war, packed in with other from Afghanistan, Pakistan, North Africa etc no.

this guy gets it

>based hungary

Thanks for the constructive argument. Not op, but I fucking hate people like you who use emotions and call people unsubstantiated names, and refuse to dialogue. You are the stereotypical libcuck that ruins everything, specifically the American election. Take your opinion and cram it up your ass if all you have to offer is to call them a mean name like the big meanie you think you are. You are the problem with the world, and you make it everyone else's problem, just because mommy and daddy didn't pay you enough attention. Please never post again.

We can argue about this ad infinitum or you can simply google the statistics. Up to you.

I am a PhD now software developer. I am considering leaving UK to EU mainland. I am paying taxes, work hard. I was talking on the phone in a shop in talking in Polish on the phone and was spat on. I was always humble and worked as an arsehole for British. I have frankly enough of this shit. So I will work elsewhere. My cousin has moved to Germany working for ESA.

Like many English people, then?

But if Sturgeon gets her way you're going to be completely fucked as (if other countries don't veto you joining the EU) you're have to adopt the euro, sign up to the schengen zone and pay in to the EU's budget. How the fuck is that independence?

>the EU is the only way to ensure our political and economic freedom and our survival as a culture
Fucking this.
It's like europeans/eurosceptics don't realize what the fuck is going on around them and act like we're still living in the 19th century.

Well then inform me on what I'm missing. I'm happy to change my opinion if you can find a reason that I don't know before you're going to make assumptions about me.

EU corruptness and anti democracy is out of control

German fag here. Fuck EU!

>filename

Proud of you eurobro.

Summing up all the benefits of the EU is a little much to ask. Books have been written about that. Perhaps it's best to restrict this to a specific topic of your choosing (e.g. economic growth).

Liz Truss thinks the cheese we get in Costco will win over the French. Liz Truss is a mongo.

>EU corruptness
EU countries are literally the least corrupt in the world, out-ranking the US.

I'd put most of that down to what we (britfags) see as good natured banter.

You Frenchfags are cool by me apart from you seem to close everywhere on a Sunday (I'm talking S France round Aix) so it took me ages to find somewhere with food and beer.

>worth the wait though because I ended up taking the only waitress I could find back to my hotel room later that evening

As a swiss, it was a good thing. Fuck the eu.

Switzerland is too small to fully exot the eu but our time will cone. Our %exports to eu vs rest of the world are dropping.

10 years time, switzerland will leave eea and rejoin the brits.

>Btw, it's hilarious to hear Britons whine about the lack of democracy in the EU, when half of their own parliament, the House of Lords, is made of unelected aristocrats.

That's the first thing that come to my mind when I hear british complaining about a lack of democracy in the eu.
They're just fucking retarded and oblivious.

>I am considering leaving UK to EU mainland.
You're more than welcome here buddy.

Ask them to name 3 laws the EU has forced on us. Its funny.

I bet they say freedom of movement and some retarded shit about bananas before they talk about all the positive consumer and environmental protection laws that have stopped companies ripping us off and idustry from using our beaches and rivers like a fucking sewer.

How about the independence of each country. In what way would It allow each country to make its own changes and choices? What if they don't support the multiculturalist agenda, or other things? How do you assure everyone has an equal say, and not one person using it as their empire?

as a yankee, this always make me cry
aldf org/blog/u-s-lags-far-behind-europe-in-protections-for-farmed-animals

you can shout sovereignty all you want but I honestly don't believe that your country can invest money as well as the eu does

If it wasn't for all the refugees Europe could still stand proud, but fuck it there is a shitskin muslim street on every corner these days (and has been for many years, just increasing).

I'm really done living in a city that has become a ghetto.

this
also, swiss people are surprisingly non-retarded, if any other country had referendums on everything like them, they would fuck themselves into the ground

no, I believe we just want to have what we've got with respect to the EU: no Brexit, keep the pound sterling, stay in single market, keep free movement and leave the uk.

It's independence in that we would choose to go into that arrangement. We don't choose to be slaves to westminster.

1) free movement
2) cap
3)cfp
4) lorry overtime directive

For those saying about funding being cut for research, for farming subsidy- where does the EU get that money from?

You do realise you pay for that?... How many EU countries put more in than they get out, for that matter.

I think you're talking about a different united europe
>kinda like the square design

The EU doesn't invest money, if gives the UK back some of the money we give it for 'membership'...

trade tariffs don't cancel each other out, they lead to less trade

>keep pound

Fucking idiot. You can't have a common currency without political union. You need fiscal union. In your situation Scotland's interest rates would be set by England. That's why the EU is fucking up. They have no fiscal union so southern European will be fucked.

Get your head out of Sturgeon's arse for a second. Scottish independence is a retarded idea. And I am Scottish. It is based 100% on bullshit and lies.

Same shit, different ass... Oh wait, not it isn't. It's the same asshole too!

>Switzerland
>things are going much better than anywhere else in europe
>literally draining european wealth through its opaque banking system favouring tax evasion
>things work well for us

My honest thoughts is that Churchill would be ashamed of the UK right now.

since you're a scientist, do you think the uk would invest in science as the eu does today or do you believe they'd invest more/less?

also
>immigration
the uk already had complete border controls except for eu citizens (romanians, bulgarians,...), the thing is that, for a country to join the eu, it must be unanimously approved so, if brits really trust their gov. so much, they signed off on poor eastern european countries joining the union.

>4) lorry overtime directive

HO MY GOD THE HUMILIATION OF IT ALL!!!!!!

Like I said, IF you leave the UK you will only be able to join the EU if you accept free movement, accept the euro and pay in to the EU's budget. You don't want to be slave to Westminster yet you want to be ruled by Brussels...

No. He would be proud. He was the leader of a fucking empire, not a lapdog for Germany.

Stop sucking eu cock and balls.

have you seen them leave yet?
trust me, they know they're fucked

They will, they're too proud not to.

That kind of statistics are what made me proud to be european.
The UK wants to leave? Good riddance.

This, I suppose, comes down to a fundamental disagreement on what democracy entails.
>the independence of each country
Each country has a say that is proportional to their share in the seats in the European parliament. Small parties of individual states form coalitions with like-minded parties from other nations, so that ultimately, the parliament is a pretty accurate reflection of the political views that the citizens of individual member states hold. This is similar to US congress, where individual states contribute congressmen.
>In what way would It allow each country to make its own changes and choices?
Pretty much the way it is now. Particular economic problems that aren't easily regulated properly by individual states (such as tragedy of the common phenomena, think over fishing) are regulated at the EU level. Individual freedom of nation states should never have priority over the common good.
>What if they don't support the multiculturalist agenda
Countries are pretty much free to set their own immigration policy from countries outside of the EU. The current crisis is called a crisis for a reason, it is a specific set of exceptional circumstances that require us to rethink how we handle these things.
>How do you assure everyone has an equal say, and not one person using it as their empire?
Ironically, this is why the EU was founded. It was to ensure that one nation could never rise to take control of Europe ever again. It's doing that job extraordinarily well, and we should value that.

For me it is. My job is practically taken over by polish people. I can work more but i am not allowed to.

In poland nobody gives a fuck and ignores it. Sorry that i voted to better my job and earn more money.


You can stick your eu up your arse

>It benefits in the short term, but can cause problems in the long run
elaborate?

you most certainly do not need a fiscal union:

theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/03/can-scotland-be-independent-sterling

"Kosovo is not a member of the eurozone but uses the euro. It is legal tender but the country is not even a member of the EU and has no formal currency agreements with the European Central Bank (ECB) and other European institutions."

"The free-market thinktank cites the example of Panama and other Latin American countries that use the dollar as proof that the informal use of another country’s currency “can foster a healthy financial system and economy”."

You're the fucking idiot, lapping up what your superiors tell you without question. You good little drone.

>since you're a scientist, do you think the uk would invest in science as the eu does today or do you believe they'd invest more/less?
They'd probably invest about the same, but they'll lose the EU part of the funding, which is substantial. They've already announced to only compensate scientific institutions for two years.

there are plenty of unqualified brits on benefits, the only thing the eu forces you to do is treat eu citizens the same way you treat you own
your solution is nationalism, admit it and be proud

> But if Sturgeon gets her way you're going to be completely fucked as (if other countries don't veto you joining the EU) you're have to adopt the euro, sign up to the schengen zone and pay in to the EU's budget. How the fuck is that independence?

How the fuck is that independence when your own little county have to submit to a national parliament to strenghten your position and ensure your survival?
In case you haven't noticed, we're living in a globalised world, and the european way of life is threatened by global powers.