Are Libertarians left or right wing? Libertarian values have more in common with the left imo

Are Libertarians left or right wing? Libertarian values have more in common with the left imo.

Bump

LIbertarians are more to the right. In my opinion, the traditional left/right spectrum is retarded. Towards the left you have people who support strong government and towards the right you have people who support freedom and less government. Since libertarians are for shit like social and economic freedom and small government, they'd be more to the right.

Neither.

But in my opinion we are closer to right wing.


We want liberty while the liberal cucks always want to impose their fucking thing.
They the state should regulate marriage for lgbt, while we want the state to get out of marriage.
They want the state should regulate and tax pot, while we want to deregulate and liberalize it.
They want the state to impose salary equality, etc... while we want the state to get the fuck out of our provate business

Libertarians are politically syncretic.
They take from both left and right, they tend to be to the right economically of republicans and to the left socially of democrats.

By definition they're more toward the right side of things. Their belief is centered around as little government as possible. All services are provided by private companies wherever possible. Social programs are frowned upon and mostly non existant.

sounds great, then Walmart wouldn't even have to pay our laughable minimum wage.

Libertarians are more right wing you dummy

Were socially left, but economically right

Libertarians are autistic faggots.

The left wants the government to run our lives and provide us with shit tier necessities from birth to death

Libertarians want the government out of our lives

So yeah....the same user

>Muh liberty.
Honestly libertarian beliefs are mostly a total contradiction. They want freedom and liberty, but also want to force freedom and liberty on others. Doesn't make sense, brah.

>huuuuuurrrrr left right up down duuuuuurrr trump hillary bush obama huuuurrrrrrrr

I call myself a left libertarian. I fully agreed with Gary Johnson, and he really is the perfect definition of a left libertarian.

It's about having as little government as possible, but still maintaining some social security programs and environment regulations.

Are libertarians for or against abortion?

What I've heard is that surprisingly, there isn't a fixed position on this issue.

It all comes down to whether or not abortion is murder, and that really is more of a philosophical question than a political one.

1.5 Abortion

Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.

It's neither a political or philosophical question, it's a scientific question, and experts agree it's not murder.

Socially left, economically right. That's libertarianism.

In a nutshell, Libertarians won't sponsor Planned Parenthood but will give them all freedoms to operate anywhere they want and do their thing without governmental interference.

Seems fair to me

The libertarian party are not necessarily the only voice of the libertarian philosophy though, they're just a group using the name libertarian.

there are experts that agree it is murder too. You are killing a thing, made up of human parts, that will be a human, and is by definitions already a human, that is producing brain waves and heart rhythms when you are killing a fetus.

So I guess men should stop masturbation.

Dude, Gary is just not a good candidate. I've been a card-carrying member of the Libertarian party for about ten years now and I really wish they'd expand their view on what makes a good candidate.

They're not syncretic, the left and the right are. Libertarianism is philosophically and economically well defined and predates the current left/right spectrum by over a century. Socialism/communism is also similarly well defined.

On the other hand, modern day "liberalism" and "conservatism" are amalgamations of voting blocs borne from political expediency.

They drive every day on streets we all paid for, they're protected by cops we all paid for, their children are served in our public schools. Their coworkers and bosses and employees receive all these same benefits.

And they believe they'd do just fine without these things, because they don't have to try.

They are a teenage kid yelling "i hate you mom!" from their private bedrooms.

Libertarians are non-interventionist in international relations. The only legitimate use of force in their eyes is in self defense of your person or property. I'm not sure what you mean by "force freedom on others."

Honestly, the bigger emphasis from Libertarians should be more on the fact that no personal freedoms shall be abridged, but you better get your shit together because no personal taxes should fund ACA, extended welfare benefits, or retirement benefits. You won't be taxed but will retain responsibility to take care of yourself.

This is literal fucking nonsense. What a moron. "They want to make lgbt marriage free where we want to keep out of it", what the fuck do you think keeping it free means, you daffy dip shit? You're a fucking idiot.

sperm cells are not considered living, sperm cells are not human, sperm cells do not produce brain waves. Totally different thing.

Just so you know I do not take a stance on abortion, I'm just playing devils advocate really. I understand both sides perfectly, and the only thing I believe in firmly is that early term abortion is okay. It's just once brain waves start (which occurs very early), I have difficulty forming an opinion on if its okay or not. I've got to wonder if brain waves mean perspective, desires, and feelings.

I agree with you fully. It's not hard to understand why he got the nomination though, the only other people running that had a chance with Austin Peterson, who looks like he just graduated college, and John McAfee, who seems like a cool guy but stands less than a chance of being president and if he got the nomination would constantly be drowned out by murder accusations of opponents.

My
Fucking
God

Garbage, but I'm glad you figured out how to green text. Nice to be good for something.

You confuse the libertarian party with actual libertarianism and then still confuse actual libertarianism with anarcho capitalism.

You don't know what you're talking about... Just go.

This is a valid point re:abortion. Murray Rothbard argued that (brace yourself) that the mothers has the right to free herself of what is a parasite. Basically, the parasite is infringing on her personal liberty, so action is warranted. That's the Rothbardian polynomial-time-reduction-to-freedom-violation proof.

By definition they should be pro choice, recognizing it should be a moral decision up to the individual. In practice they lean pro life because they're really a bunch of shit bag conservatives who just don't want to have to pay taxes, even though they benefit from them every day.

Pffffffffff

You make a very good argument, but to your comment regarding abortion, I say that neither we as individuals or government in any of its shape or form should dictate actions of a sound-minded woman. Her choice is hers alone and must be respected.

...

Libertarians are that useless shit you find gunking up the bottom of the political barrel.

not really, most libertarians i meet are pro choice.

Exactly. I don't have a problem with early abortions but at some point it becomes wrong. I am not sure at what point that is, but I think that is a question that could be reasonably answered through science (when brain waves start like you mentioned).

It's still an impossible question because I don't feel that it is right for the government to step in and tell a woman that she can't choose to do what she wants with her body even in the late term.

My only opinion is to this is really hammer the point that late term abortion is wrong and shouldn't be done and please don't be a shitty person. In the end though there are lots of shitty people in the world so I can live with the fact that sometimes people will still do it.

Of course you wouldn't argue it's a woman's choice to murder her 2 day old baby, so the part you believe is a woman's choice is incubating a baby in her body, which might cause her suffering, but I would like to compare that to a thought experiment.

Imagine you are in a deserted place with a person dying and a doctor which you know can save the person. The doctor refuses to help the person for whatever reason, would it be morally right to try to force the doctor to save the person, against the doctor's will? Of course this would violate his will, but in the end it's saving a life. Does someone have the right to willfully end a life, just to avoid the suffering caused from childbearing for 4-5 months (the time its truly cumbersome), after all it was their decisions in the first place to have sex (assuming it's not rape)

Again more devil's advocate stuff, these are not necessarily my views. Just questions I ask myself which keep me from forming an opinion

Then they are not Libertarians. We respect personal right above all.

>Want weed? Go ahead but you are responsible for smoking it and then acting in a manner that shall not endanger yourself or others.
>Want to abort or keep your baby? Go right ahead.
>Want a gun? Sure, but any damage you cause or is caused by someone you supply a gun to shall be squarely your responsibility.
>Want to be gay and marry other gays? Fine by us.
>Will you be taxed? Hell no. Your money is yours to keep and be used however you determine.

Just don't expect a Libertarian to bail your ass out if you fail to secure your own well-being and keep asking for hand-outs.

DONT FUCK WITH PORCUPINES

On social matters, a combination of left and right leaning.
On economic matters, right leaning.
On authoritarianism, left leaning.

They were considered anarchists and definitely have that bent, far moreso than any other party, but now that the left and right are pitching to the far extremes, they're closer t the traditional center politically.

They were the party of personal responsibility for a while, then the party of crazy idiots for a while, and now the party we wish we got instead of the orange dip and his merry band of dwarves with "people skills".

Saying libertarians are socially left is retarded.
The "Left" in the US is an authoritarian movement.
Claiming that a libertarian is left socially because they think people shouldn't be stopped from having gay marriage is ridiculous.
The government shouldn't be granting marriage certificates anyway.
Libertarians are not trying to legislate morality.
Just because some people see issues as pro or against, doesn't mean there isn't the third option, indifferent.
There are plenty of libertarians that are against gay marriage, but all that means is that they won't get a gay marriage. They lead their own lives, not the lives of those around them.
I don't believe anyone should be a degenerate faggot. But I don't think we should stop them.

>On authoritarianism, left leaning.
This doesn't make any sense.
Authoritarian and Libertarian are opposites.
You can live in a left Authoritarian state, which is actually what the leftist movement in the west is.
The more authoritarian you are the more you're trying to legislate your ideology.

A doctor takes an oath to attempt and safe a life of a person who is conscious and accepts help. An unconscious person provides implied consent. Failure to act on doctor's part is tantamount to him/her breaking the oath (unless doctor has no idea how to help you - a dermatologist isn't likely to successfully perform a tracheostomy)

A mother killing own 2 day child is not abortion. Not for a second.

Just because the most vocal extreme of the current left that comes immediately to mind is off the deep end, doesn't mean that anyone anywhere who leans left is that far left too, jesus. I mean fuck user, after Vietnam died down on up til about 15 years ago, "left" was a republican who spazzed out slightly less about having to pay their taxes.

...

Libertarians are definitely closer to the center.

See

lol does your country have a nuanced understanding of anything, or is everything black and white or good and evil to you like in your movies?

your country is retarded for letting Jews oversimplify your understanding of the world

>The "Left" in the US is an authoritarian movement

That's a vocal minority m8, generalizations make you look foolish.

I don't know if I would agree that libertarianism is the opposite of authoritarianism.

I think it would be more accurate to say libertarianism is a very very small subset of authoritarianism.

libertarian party is counter-intuitive. they believe in small government with limited/no interference, yet they run for government in the first place...

in reality they're just like every other politician, self serving jackasses. and if one became president, there would be no scaling back the offices power, because no politician gives up power.

If you think libertarians are closer to the left, you might be wrong for either one reason or other reason.
Let's take drugs as an example: libertarians do support the end of War on Drugs. So does the Left. The difference here is of values; while 95% of libertarians do condomn drug use, we also believe that government should not tell what you should do with your body, no matter how stupid it is, as long as you don't do anything that could damage other people or their properties. As in, you could smoke weed, but the moment you decide to steal from others to pay for your drugs, you'll go to jail. Or if you attempt to kill someone to steal their money for your drugs, they'll have every right to shot you; they were defending theirselves against an imminent threat. It's called the Non-Aggression Principle.

Then who would stop people from getting addicted to drugs? Substance abuse, whether it is marijuana, alcohol, prescription drugs, or even fucking cough syrup, is a psychological problem. Merely writing on a paper that "lol people are prohibited from doing drugs" will not solve any problems. This issue happens when an individual cannot cope with the responsabilities of an adult life or they have some sort of trauma. That's what should be treated, not by government, but by their families, friends and community.

The Left supports drug use as a beautiful and admirable thing. It enforces substance abuse as something to be praised because of their political agenda. Spread bad values among society, social chaos issues, then you reap the benefits with more power to government.

Alternatively, you might think that libertarians have more in common with the left because there has been an infiltration of leftists in the libertarian movement. They like to claim theirselves as "socially libertarians" and support every leftist agenda there is (reverse racism, force churches to marry gays, etc). They are not true libertarians. They don't even know what the NAP is.

Good thing your agreement has no effect on a fact

There's not that much to a tracheotomy. We had to learn how to do them in the military. Took about a minute to go over how to do it, 2 min on how not to do it, and that was about it.

The basic premise your assuming is incorrect. The liberal left in social issues is based on less government in these personal decisions. Less government is the basic tennant of libertarianism. To deny that is to let your biasis lead you. You're no more a libertarian than bernie sanders. You just want to wear the label.

Could say the same thing for the republicans from Reagan onward.

Nixon was probably the last great republican. ...and that's... well, I guess that's up for debate as well.

More to the right, fam.
But the left and right spectrum is retarded anyways.

That oath actually isn't legally binding and doctor's don't take it everywhere. It's tradition more than anything.

The only difference I see between a living baby, and a late term fetus is the incubation process isn't complete yet, which is why I made the analogy to breaking someone's will to do the right thing.

If a man was on life support, without insurance or money, the hospital should continue to pay the bill, even if they don't want to, and keeping him alive is hurting them financially.

If a baby is born very early, and is kept alive by an incubator, the hospital should continue to pay the bill, even if they don't want to.

If a hospital were to turn off an incubator, it seems like everyone would know it was a morally wrong act, and want legal reparations, but the only differences i see between a hospital making that decision and a woman, is that a hospital is compromised of many instead of just one, and you expect a hospital to do the right thing. But should you not be able to legally expect a person to do the right thing, especially when it means the life or death of a person?

Heh. Bitcoins are the greatest thing ever.

They aren't going to force me to be free, I won't allow it!

This guy gets it.

Another point I want to bring up - should a Libertarian salute the flag / do Pledge of Allegiance?

I say yes, but our personal freedom allows us from having to blindly believe the message / symbolism.

Example: I go out with a group of friends; some of them are Catholic and want to say grace prior to our dinner. While they silently pray, do I check my phone because "hurr durr, religion is stupid"? No, a Libertarian respects the views and beliefs of others, and in my case, I will bow my head and be silent until they're done, but i still retain my freedom to remain an atheist.

With libertarianism, instead of government controlling everything corporations control everything.

I don't think libertarians subscribe to the left right thing. They view things on a spectrum of intervention, eg. more/less government control. The left-right paradigm is a spectacle put on by a largely singleminded establishment to give people the illusion of choice, and to divide and conquer a general population of society of people who more or less want the same things. Those things happen to contradict the interests of that establishment.

kek

True. 9/11 caused the US to flip out, and its response was to enact radical abuses of the constitution and tear itself apart, driving the republicans far right and dems hard left, away from classical liberal views & light libertarianism thought into the dogmatic ideological wasteland.

Well, you get my point. A proctologist won't do open heart surgery.

This is goddamn gold, and thank you for posting it.

+1 internets to you sir.

You have the right to do whatever you want. The courtesy you give to your friends is one of free will and respect, but you could easily not. And if your friends were to judge harshly for you not doing so, well that is their right to hold such a feeling but fuck them.

People will do what they want.
Giving any collective group the ability to control an individual is wrong.
Now if you don't mind I'm going to shove a coat hanger up my cunt while barrel rolling down the stairs.
Abortion?
More like funbortion

That's like one of the dumbest things I ever read on Sup Forums. And that's really reaching. Who tha hell in their right mind doesn't want to be free ?

Where we still are today?

Cause it feels like it never got better after that.

>public sidewalks

That's where it falls apart.

The medical professional's opinion, especially peer reviewed one, should drive the action on hospital's part. If they deliberately withhold treatment to save cost, then yes, they are fully liable. However, some people refuse medical treatment because of personal beliefs. As sad as it may seem, no institution should override that personal wish.

Libertarians are just a bunch of useful idiots. Like the Christfags they're just another way for the overclass to divide and rule.

Killing violatest the nap.

Fuck autocorrect violates the nap

Shove them with leftism a few years and soon they'll do all sorts of claims about how collectivism is great, how taxes are good because they go to muh healthcare and muh schools and muh roads and so on. I see that on facebook and such all the time. Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders spent his donators money on an Audi R8. So typical.

Thanks user. I wish I would have written more but 2000 characters is way too few to explain in details what is the non-aggession principle, why the Left and libertarians seem to agree on certain issues at first glance and so on.

Damn it, funbortion made me chuckle.

If you want to shove that coat hanger, fine by me, but under a Libertarian government, you can just as easily go to a medical professional willing to do that procedure for you in a safer manner, and neither you nor doctor shall be held in contempt.

I get what you're saying, but I feel like in a circle of Republicans, same situation will be more like "Holy fuck, why aren't you praying with us, you son of Satan?"
Similarly, in a circle of Democrats it would be like "OMG stop praying, you're triggering me and impeding my safe space".

IDK, I'm just enjoying my Thursday night drink here.

When they parasite inside of your body is stealing your food, it is self defense and is does not violate the nap.

Exactly. When leftists decide to put a certain group of people against other group of people (gay vs straight, feminism vs men, and so on), only politicians and rich businessmen win. People should strongly defend theirselves against any attempt to seize their private property and attempts from government to stimulate class struggle.

WHERE WE STILL ARE TODAY.

Because yeah, it actually just got worse in Bush's second term, and it was all the plebs could do to elect Obama on hope and change. ...except he didn't end any of the bush initiatives at all. Kept them up, enforced them with fucking gusto and increased their funding instead. When the right tried to get ineffectual bobblehead Romney to run against him, all each one could say was they would do what the other was doing, but just more of it than the other. This is your "choice" of governance in the American system. Trump is the pendulum swinging away from that continuing of false choice. ...albeit to a crazy reckless idiot, but still, willing to try an unknown over a guarantee of more of the same.

*When Conservatives decide to put a certain class of people against another class (christians vs muslims, poor vs. Rich, gays vs straights, pro life vs pro choice, pro global warming vs nutjobs)

>They want freedom and liberty, but also want to force freedom and liberty on others.

This is the dumbest shit I have heard in 2017. give this person the 20147 cuck award right now, I demand it, because he doesn't want freedom.

Neither. False Dichotomy. Libertarians are nearly always the third choice. The sane choice. American established left and right usually offer 2 different, but not that different options for everything, when the best answer is nearly always neither or both.

Libertarians are the only ones that embrace freedom for everyone, even if they don't think like you. Freedom from prosecution of victimless crimes, freedom to do drugs, freedom to have guns, freedom to see whores, freedom to have abortions, etc.

Libertarians wish to end the federal reserve and return to the gold standard to get a grip on runaway inflation of fiat currency.

Libertarians believe in no entitlement programs and everything you earn should be yours.

Libertarians believe the only conditions any nation should be gone to war with is if they TRULY are a threat to our national security (and the last time this has honestly happened *may* have been WW2, but arguably maybe not even that; if we hadn't been antagonizing them Pearl Harbor probably never would have happened).

We believe free market can take care of any problem more quickly, more cheaply, and better than the government.

All exchanges are voluntary, nothing done through force.

It's really the ONLY party that's anywhere close to embracing what the founding fathers stood for.

L's don't want the surveillance welfare/warfare state.

The main 2 parties only have 4 fundamental differences but they make it out like these differences are the difference between life and death, but honestly, nearly everything about Pepsi vs Coke is identical. The 4 points that they act like are the end of the world are abortion, gun control, immigration, and pot.... but support federal reserve and fiat currency, both support endless war and surveillance, both support severe restrictions on personal liberty, both vote in unison with the exception of the key 4 point differences they use to hoodwink the public into the same leadership every time.

>If you want to shove that coat hanger, fine by me, but under a Libertarian government, you can just as easily go to a medical professional willing to do that procedure for you in a safer manner, and neither you nor doctor shall be held in contempt.

Hold on there, there isn't any consensus among libertarians regarding abortion. I am a libertarian and I am all against abortion, but I do understand there are arguments from other libertarians too. It's a controversial issue and no one can quite guarantee what would happen under a libertarian government (if "libertarian" and "government" can be used in the same sentence that is).

Nice try.

Go back to kick trash cans and kill people on Berkley.

We should allow most children to be killed before birth of course, and only keep the murderers alive because black lives matter.

We wouldn't persecute doctors performing abortions or issue mandates on where they can or cannot practice the craft.

It's interesting that nearly every Republican will look at a Libertarian and think they resemble democrats (often mistaking them for one.

Nearly every democrat will look at Libertarians and think they are Republican.

They see someone not at all like themselves and due to the very simple way they're wired "us vs them"/"not with us, they're against us" they cannot fathom that politics is an endless spectrum rather than 2 shitty, nearly identicle, ideas presented either with A)pandering to minorities, women, and vagina-Americans or B) American white men.

You niggers are what, going to choose this one issue to get all oppressive on bc omg we need every last unwanted babby to be born into welfare

No.

Personal responsibility. If you got knocked up, and you can't deal with it, and can't take care of it, don't have it. No one else's problem.

Capitalism has proven itself as the way forward. I know I know, the communists are seriously butthurt that capitalism makes entire countries wealthy and life gets better for everyone.

So, they want to take a country that has been made wealthy by capitalism, then force it to go socialism and communism afterward (starting already wealthy) taking from the rich and giving it to the government. That way you end up like Venezuela did.

>omg we need every last unwanted babby to be born into welfare
Might aswell kill every single poor individual in the world as they are potential welfare recipients too.

The problem isn't unwanted babies, isn't poor people, the problem is welfare.

>brah
I'm pretty sure you're confused "brah". I hear the American education system is in trouble, but this is rediculous.
>brah
Fucking kill yourself
>brah
>brah
>brah
>brah

Pre-fucking-cisely.

I am trying the make the same argument over and over, so let's try it again, with gusto:

>Libertarians do not endorse or prohibit personal beliefs, practices, or decisions.
>Libertarians do defend people from having beliefs, practices, and decisions being forced upon them by others.

No one plays identity politics like the democrats.

Holt shit, you can't be this dumb

The definition of liberty is freedom from government restraint and control

Its in the fucking name

>the poor should keep breeding vast populations they have no money or means to provide for
>the state will pay to raise them
>or someone will
>someone else
>anyone but me
>but we need 20 billion mouths to feed
>bc 9 billion isn't enough

It doesn't matter what you think. You nor the entire government is going to stop me from doing what I want.

Fuck pro life.
I am pro DEATH.
NO LIVES MATTER NIGGERS
DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIE

American constitutionally speaking: libertarians are most compatible with free liberal society.

Communism speaking: todays democucks are most compatible with totalitarianism.