Who's the Bach or Beethoven of Jazz?

Who's the Bach or Beethoven of Jazz?

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youtube.com/watch?v=WdsC71hbq00
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists#250_million_or_more_records
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Charles Mingus

bach = coltrane
beethoven = miles
mozart = mingus

Bach = Tony Parker
Mozart = Miles Davis
Haydn = Charles Mingus
Beethoven = Coltrane or Wayne Shorter

Tony parker lmfao, Charlie Parker my bad

This man is Bach Beethoven and Mozart all rolled into one.

Do you think jazz will ever come back?

Jazz hasn't existed long enough to make this analogy. George Russell has influenced more of popular and art music than you are ready to understand though.

J Dilla

Bach = Charlie Parker
Beethoven = Miles

It seems all fine art is in limbo currently.

ignorant ass question

>No one mentions Louis Armstrong

Vivaldi

they are the two worst genres

Charlie Parker is definitely Bach, not so sure about the others

>Jazz hasn't existed long enough to make this analogy.
This. Jazz is memecore music that died before it actually got a chance to evolve into something more than a meme. Hell even degenerate garbage like rock music got more mileage.

I should point out kids today are getting smarter. The whole "hip-hop is good" meme works solely on retarded millenials and guilt-driven Gen X'ers. I anticipate that jazz in its opportunities in orchestration, counterpoint, musical narrative and even songwriting is poised to make a serious comeback.

jazz has existed since the 1910s while rock got started in 1940s. Not sure how rock is has more mileage

nice bait retard
fuck off

1910 = music started

?

If this is bait then I don't get it

Not bait. People are just in severe misunderstanding as to what a genre actually is and what purpose such a distinction serves.

Are you saying literally all hip/hop / rap is bad? Dalek, The Powers that B, Good Kid Maad City, College Dropout. All of it is bad?

your sentences suck

>The Powers that B
well this is certainly bad, you could have at least said exmilitary or the money store

I don't usually like to be patrician or pretentious but TPTB is way less accessible, more mature, and easily their magnum opus

>jazz has existed since the 1910s while rock got started in 1940s. Not sure how rock is has more mileage
You have two cars. One is 10 years old, the other only 5. You drive the 5 year old car every day since you got it 5 years ago, meanwhile the 10 year old car has spent 9 of those 10 years collecting dust in the garage because it runs like ass.
Which car has more mileage?

Sheesh. Always this "B-but what about my favorite stuff" response. There's good music to be had in hip-hop but it's severely limited by it's own methodology and shit culture. Just for context, do you even realize how many people have been killed over 360 deals? To understand and ignore it is to be a shitty person. You could say that other modes of distribution exist but I don't see anybody en masse trying to come up with new models. Do you?

You suck at reading and in all likelihood, listening and comprehending.

Jazz was the music of choice in the 20s, 30s, and 40s, and was still heavily played in the 50s and 60s. Rock was the music of choice in the 60s, and 70s, but gave way to Punk, Metal, and Indie in the 80s and 90s. In the 00s and 10s it's been almost entirely replaced by Indie. Where is your mileage

You suck at reading, and, in all likelihood, listening and comprehending (don't forget your commas)

FTFY but lets not get catty babe

>In the 00s and 10s it's been almost entirely replaced by Indie. Where is your mileage
indie died this decade, it's been replaced by memerap now

>Bach
Ellington
>Beethoven
Armstrong

Don't argue, just accept it

What tenth of jazz' history do you figure it was actually evolving and when did it stop?

I'll fuck up your commas, bitch.

>Jazz was the music of choice in the 20s, 30s, and 40s
Yes, because entire planet = USA, and everyone on the planet listened to some new american fad in the 1920s.
Let's get real here, Beatles got more mileage in less than a decade than the entire jazz genre in the last century. And they're just one band.

When you guys are talking about "milage" are you talking about artistic value or popularity?

You have a really screwed up sense of music history. Almost everything you're saying is wrong.

They're talking about popularity. Around here popular = good, ever since that poptimism crap took foothold in internet world.

Jazz, rock and similar forms of entertainment have no artistic value, so you can only judge them on popularity and influence they had on the popular culture in general. And rock wins here by far.

Oh fuck, then yeah. Jazz arguably only had 20 years at best and rock had a patchy 25. Disco and R&B then got WAAAAY more "milage" than either of them.

Creatively speaking, jazz has a more robust engine than any of it. Rock is held back by marketability. Hip-hop is held back by marketability. R&B comes damn close, I will say. "Classical" doesn't even exist so I'm not even going to touch that. Don't hold your breath for the Sup Forums userbase to understand what any of it means though.

Why are you even bothering to have this discussion if you don't think they have any artistic value? How much jazz have you even listened to?

>marketability

In my art, what are you a retard?

youtube.com/watch?v=UnoCI2N9nWw

>Disco and R&B then got WAAAAY more "milage" than either of them.
Let's take a look.
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums
>40 million copies or more
>AC/DC
>Pink Floyd
>Meat Loaf
>Eagles
>Fleetwood Mac

vs

>Michael Jackson
>Bee Gees
>Whitney Houston

You got 1 disco album and 2 r&b albums (and let's be honest, Thriller is almost as much pop/rock as it is r&b) vs 5 rock-related albums. So I don't think so.

>Louis Armstrong is in hell

You magnificent bastard

delet

correct me if I'm wrong, then, don't just say that it's wrong when I'm just as a sure as you that I'm right

Not a bad compliment at all.

youtube.com/watch?v=tgNQ4FR6Me8

>How much jazz have you even listened to?
I stopped falling for the "quantity over quality" meme way back in my late teens and haven't looked back since, I don't see any point in dumpster diving for music when I already have music I like.
Do I also need to listen to thousands of local high school pop punk bands to know that I truly can't appreciate pop punk, or should I keep doing it in hopes there will be some incredible musical prodigies hidden there one day?

youtube.com/watch?v=WdsC71hbq00

You know how I can tell you aren't all that?

Actually yeah. Looking at:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists#250_million_or_more_records
too, there are away more rock artists listed here. I would have imagined they'd have outstripped them by the 80s, but apparently not. Ah well, if current trends continue, give it another 20-30 years and they might pass rock out.

What kind of souless drone judge music for how much it sells?

youtube.com/watch?v=BtZ6DoeimP4

I'm sorry, I just assumed you'd actually made an effort to get into the genre seeing as you're spouting opinions about it and pretending to know what you're talking about.

Apparently the guys itt. I don't think it matters all that much, but apparently it's the standard for quality being used.

>tfw when this is what jazz threads have become

youtube.com/watch?v=zMIzTh0Lafg

It costs nothing to post something good.

>It costs nothing to post something good.
and yet you still managed to mess it up

There have been some really good jazz threads the past three days. I'd link them but the archive is still down.
This one is just exceptionally shitty and not really a jazz thread, seeing as we're not talking about the music.

>Never listened to the living legend that means it's bad.

youtube.com/watch?v=foLzP3qQoSY

Worse than judging it by how many copies it sold.

All that shit sucks, listen to better rap.

This is surprisingly accurate T B Q H

Always considered Charlie Parker to be more of a Listz guy.

Would you bother to post some?

youtube.com/watch?v=yeedn9ma8sg

>blatantly ignoring how popular jazz was and still is in Brazil, France, Spain, and Japan among others

Tbf, I think it's probs more accurate to say he's analogous to Beethoven and seeing bebop as akin to romantic music in that both spawned started and inspired all the weirdness and rule breaking that'd happen later on.
Miles and Coltrane would be more like Wagner and Debussy with free jazz guys like Ornette Coleman and Cecil Taylor being akin to Stravinsky or Schoenberg.
Bach would have to be someone like Art Tatum: very intricate/technically proficient but not necessarily a revolutionary.

Almost forgot about japanese jazz.

youtube.com/watch?v=Zq4WEu-NLGU

You don't see this in the billboard list.

youtu.be/Hrr3dp7zRQY

What do you guys think of Ryo?

>was and and still is in...France
confirmed for making shit up. The beatles and rock music are infinitely more popular than jazz here and france, I'm sure spain too. I don't think real jazz was ever popular in the first place.

Good point

Answer

Diggin it.

youtube.com/watch?v=HkdCr9HlRE0

They are musically defined by jazz, to a ridiculous point.

The Beatles fucking suck, man

>To be 15 again.

youtube.com/watch?v=Q3Kvu6Kgp88

I literally just told you that you don't know what you're talking about. Yes, let what Woody Allen decided to use in his romanticized version of shithole paris define how much the french care about jazz

that's not the point dipshit

youtube.com/watch?v=GlpDf6XX_j0

Are you being post ironic or something?

You are so wrong that I can't tell.