So is money just bullshit or what? seems like it is a tool which only opresses the poor and is abused by the rich

so is money just bullshit or what? seems like it is a tool which only opresses the poor and is abused by the rich

yup, this and the wage system brought our system down

ask the jews

I don't care for money but I have to have it. So I can pay mah bills

currency and banks were literally invented to scam people

I, too, once smoked marijuana for the very first time.

Money is just a representation of value, to deny that money has a place is pants on head retarded.

Do you want to bring tires and tables to Target to barter at the store you mongoloid?

B-b-but Jews are behind capitalism AND communism! Fuck off, scumbag.

And yes, OP, the further you go into economics, you'll understand it's full of abstract notions of capital and investments and is an imaginary force which families are forced to survive under via wage slavery. Did you know, unlike other animals in nature, our offspring are born according to markets? "Can't afford to have children in this economy, better not fulfill my only evolutionary reason for existence." Life under capitalism is strange, indeed.

no its just a way to take out bartering from society. It's a set value. You can get paid for the work you do and spend it on stuff that the people who have the stuff you want will accept it even if they don't need the work that you do. If you make baskets and you need some wheat and your neighbor has wheat but doesn't need baskets what are you going to do for the wheat?

>ya expect me to barter, ya commie?

every time

I've never engaged in this argument, please explain the alternative.

WELCOME TO BARTERTOWN

get a job and figure it out

If you're having money problems, just get more.
That's the beauty of the capitalist system in place. If you want something-you can get it.

yeah pretty much

since dropping the gold standard its literally just a bunch of imaginary numbers that everyone has to throw around

You do this now. "I'll sell you my labor at the lowest market value in exchange for monopoly money I can use to exchange for shelter, food, and water."

There isn't enough mined gold in the world to exchange for the money in circulation. Gold Standard is bullshit.

RBE (resource based economy)
Jaque Fresco
Zeitgeist
Ubuntu Party

etc etc etc

I now make 42k a year and growing so now I can look down upon you
get my bags

How high are you right now?

Or we could go back to gold. But the government doesn't trust us with gold.

the gold standard is an outdated concept for monetary standards.
In a population the size of the US, the gold standard would drive the price of gold through the roof, making technological use of gold too expensive to be practical-which would be a shame because it's one of the best conductors of electricity known to humans.

isnt gold a shitty useless metal to begin with?

Use your own words. I have to go to the store to pick up food, drinks, toothpaste and batteries. How do I do this without money?

Federal reserve notes will never truly be yours. Bring back gold and silver and you'll see a lot of difference in society.
Do your part and try to find a job that pays under the table; Don't pay taxes

fiat money is a tool of the oligarchy, always has been. check em

If Satan tells me not to pay my taxes I guess i have to

It's through the roof anyway doofus. And it might be a good thing having less shit. Tv's and cell phone are a privilege, not mandatory for existence.

you go to the store and pick it up

no, there are many uses for gold in the technological sector. It's one of the best conductors for electricity and is much more malleable than copper.
The problem is that gold is exceedingly rare/expensive.
Diamonds on the other hand are not that rare at all. Look at what the De Beers diamond company did.

And what does the owner of the store get in exchange for their goods?

Underrated post

but there's no sense in making commonplace consumer good more expensive while simultaneously destroying a futures market commodity.
People generally believe that money has value, so we don't need anything to back it.

Check out this CTR shill.

Underrated post.

Econ 101 is hard isn't it?

"why do I have to work to have things, why can't people just give them to me"

Literally a child's mentality. This is something that you're supposed to grow out of.

seriously going to walk me through this, just watch a fucking video

the owner, in return, gets to participate in a community where everything is free of charge

No. Money is a tool we use to exchange goods. usury however is used to make debt slaves.

hes not implying you dont work, hes implying you dont work for the dollar, rather, you work for the good of humanity.

people like you are holding us back

They aren't their goods, we do away with the arbitrary middle-manning. They're all our goods, instead of an "owner", you only have a proprietor.

Calm down Serj

not that user but...
but why should a shopkeeper who works 40 hours a week get the same materials and resources as a heart surgeon who spent 4 years undergrad, 3 years in Pre-med, 3 years as a resident and 3 years as an apprentice for cardiac surgery-AND who is constantly researching new medical techniques.
not all jobs are equal.

you'd have to take a bunch of stuff you have to trade.

if you're lucky enough to have stuff they want, you then have to debate the relative value of each item until a deal is made.

however, this can fuck you over.

for example, take persons A, B and C.

A has milk, and needs eggs.

B has eggs, but needs batteries.

C has batteries, and needs milk.

now if any one of these people goes to another, either the other won't have what they need, or won't want what they have. there is not good 2-person trade. sure, maybe you could do a 3-way trade, but that sure as hell doesn't scale (imagine trying to figure out a deal with 10, 20, 100 people...)

plus, what if we introduce D, who has a vegan cookbook (something that no-one wants). how does D get anything?

with money, however, A can sell milk to C for money, and then use that money to buy milk from B. B can use that same money to buy the batteries from A.

the point is that money can be exchanged for anything, while goods require a specifically interested party.

why dont presidents fight the war?
why do they always send the poor?

I suggest you give all your money to the poor, then, and try living without any at all.

It's not that simple user, just because you consume the ideas of people with overly idealistic pipe dreas doesn't somehow make them good ideas that make sense.

It's not a closed system, you need some type of representation of value being exchanged for trade regarding outside entities.

Working for "the good of humanity" is a pipe dream. That does not put food in the table or gas in your car.

So communism.

It's used for trade.
Commie scum.

Except humans are naturally determined to maintain a homeostatic and sedentary lifestyle. there must be external motivations for a human to spend their time and resources to advance a community rather than stagnate it. Simple psychology. But this is why i'm glad people like you aren't in charge.

Kek

Who defines what's good for humanity? Who decides what I want to work for? What percentage of my work is going towards the "good of humanity"? You sound like a red.

money is not bullshit.

capitalism is bullshit.

money is neutral, like science. neither good or evil.... it's the people's will and what they do with it.

read some Carl Marx

Bartering is retarded and wildly inconvenient. There's a reason why money has been an aspect of all societies since ancient times, it's because physically hauling valuable objects to trade is retarded when you can just use money.

The problem is that people need the incentive of having more power than others to push themselves.

A different problem is the idea someone can earn millions of dollars.
Income should be a reflection of ones contribution but most are treated like machinery.

It's cheaper to hire cheap crappy labor and have a high turn over rate than have higher paid skilled workers that can do a better job.


The best solution is a variable minimum wage based on the businesses profits and guaranteed raises every year.

They do that to advance the medical industry in terms of tech and procedures and perform a necessary service to the community. Surely that's enough, you don't need endless amounts of dollars for that. Plus, where does all that money come from? Medical benefits for people should be free, not bankrupt you.

that's called communism, and it doesn't work. If you need proof see the former USSR.
I say former because it's not around anymore, if that's any indication of communism's effectiveness.

money is power

because they both are important parts of the community and shouldnt be limited

you really played up the doctor there, bud
also, your main point was "not all jobs are equal"
which could also be refuted but is moot

If we could all work for the good of humanity there would be no need for wages, but the jews require gold and own our banking system so we have little choice but to bow to their wishes.

I am absolutely fascinated at how obvious it is that most commies don't work real jobs and fundamentally don't understand how society works.

Still making the best Philly Cheese Steaks?

I know, I agree that money is both incredibly convenient and pretty much necessary.

I was simply spelling out the alternative, since the guy I was replying to apparently didn't understand the notion.

No, if i'm going to spend 100 hours on call while a janitor spends 40 hours a week at work, I deserve more than he does.
If I perform life saving surgery that few people alive can do, why should my net worth be the same as a fry cook who can be trained in a weekend?
Also medicine is free, if you don't live an unhealthy lifestyle. 90% of all expensive medical procedure are caused by poor lifestyles.
I make plenty of money and healthcare is not a concern for me.

Not having a job gives them more time to think than just another mindless drone that could be easily replaced by a robot.

Because without the shopkeeper working there where would your mom buy your chicken nuggets user?

There is nothing evil about money. There is no reason to avoid it or to hate it. Money is just simple magic. You take your note, and you can magically turn it into a pizza, or gasoline, or electricity, or video games - whatever you want.

Of course there will always be wizards more powerful than you. And some wizards will use dark magic. But on the whole, money magic is neutral

communism could work. if people were actually decent to others. but it lends itself to dictatorship because there always has to be someone in charge, and it almost always goes to their head.

as for me, I don't see why it has to be one or the other. we could take things from both capitalism and communism to make things better. there is less class disparity, but those who work higher demand jobs and that work longer/harder get higher reward. but it's sad we coldly let people die every day because they "weren't pulling their share" or just had too many mouths to feed. everyone should have a foundation of security, regardless of what they do.

underage b&! please mods for the love of allah

>but the jews

oh god shut the fuck up you piece of shit

I've beat almost all the wall street pros in the stock market for years. My secret?

DO NOT GET EMOTIONAL ABOUT MONEY.

> so is money just bullshit or what? seems like it is a tool which only opresses the poor and is abused by the rich

this sounds like sour grapes, whining. Money is a thing. It is not a magical substance.

Being a mindless drone that can easily be replaced by a robot in 2017 is a personal problem, not a universal problem.

>muh pipe dream

you realize wed be doing the same thing we do now except without money being an artificial barrier. there will still be people making food and gasoline because that is their INTEREST.

and its not communism; that is an economy which uses money.

you realize youre using the same, primitive, tired arguments that have been refuted time and time again?

>42k a year
>Looking down on others

The only people you can look down on are African subsistence farmers.

>721333608
No, no. See, you just have to work harder and pull yourself up by your bootstraps more. Don't worry, you won't have the time to retire when you're making all that money $$$

> rich boy detected
> just get more
Fucking kek, my sides.
> implying it is remotely easy to obtain money
> implying that you don't in fact have to break your body to scrape by
> implying capitalism works for anyone but the rich
Go fuck yourself, preferably with a rabid grizzly.
I sincerely hope you die in an electrical fire.

>communism could work. if people were actually decent to others.

Which they are.

>but it lends itself to dictatorship because there always has to be someone in charge, and it almost always goes to their head.

Maybe if you mindlessly drive to that conclusion while ignoring all of the material conditions and circumstances of the 20th century.

a 16 year old performing unskilled labor (like a cashier or fry cook) shouldn't make the same as someone who spent 10 years in school and saves lives.
If I could make the same amount of money being a fry cook as I could being a cardiac surgeon why the hell would I be a surgeon?? That's retarded.
>P.S. I'm a pre-med student. that's why I play up the doctor role.

>there will still be people making food and gasoline because that is their INTEREST.

Most people work 40 hours a week to make a living, not for fun or a hobby. What are you fucking 12?

>muh people wont work for free! argument

>muh i need people to tell me what to do with my life! argument

Money came about with the first civilizations. At first, money was in the form of cattle, and useful things like salt. You could barter something for a cow, or salt, and then use that cow or salt to barter for other things. This worked well for a while, but as people had more and more things they wished to buy and trade for, a new system needed to be devised.

Around the year 4000 bc, egypt began to use gold bars as a standard form of currency because gold was very durable, very rare, and very desirable. This was the beginning of 'money' basically as we know it.

By 2000 BC there were coins being minted, and laws regarding how money works. Since this point, no reasonable human civilization (and even most unreasonable ones like russian communism) has existed without money. Why?

Well, here's the fucking answer: a barter system is exactly the same as a monetary system with one key difference.

In a barter system, you work hard, and trade shit around and try not to get screwed by other people.

In a money system, this is the same, except you don't have to carry AN ENTIRE GODDAMN COW AROUND WITH YOU.

>Which they are.
right. mostly I mean leaders. the one's making the rules to not fuck over the average person, while accruing luxuries no modern man can afford.
because Lenin was such a great ruler, and such a decent human being.
and now we have even more decent humans in office in America!

I was actually refering to the clever pun tho, the mentality fits the band

When there's no need for endless bullshit consumerism and corporate-owned restaurants and businesses, there will be no need for people to fill those janitor or low-level jobs. Robots will take the place for most other things anyway.

Well, selfish prick, most Americans can't afford healthcare. I'm glad you're so altruistic.

unsuccessful whiner chock full of jealousy and anger

Money in your pocket is the same thing as monopoly money. It holds no true value other than what the masses believe it's worth.

You can get rich if you are poor, you just have to work hard.
>be poor georgia country boy
>go to public high school
>make good grades
>qualify for HOPE
>go to UGA and study pre-med
>make good grades in college
>Co-op at emory for Med School
>work full time one semester to afford going to school the next semester, repeat until you have your M.D.
that's where I am at right now. But nice try projecting

lol. fantastic post.

>mfw money is used as a tool to facilitate the exchange of goods and services by having a symbolic value of that object
>mfw what opresses the poor is bad luck
>mfw the rich just abuse gambling with strategies
>mfw communism has never worked, yet it claims to be a solution

nah buddy, same tired argument.
the mere presence of money corrupts people
not to be cliche, but just look at all the niggers who waste their lives chasing it

true and from that knowledge you can profit

if you did not have to have a job to afford food and your house and your lifestyle, you would not work. I promise you wouldn't.

And what the fuck do you make, faggot?

>opresses the poor

in capitalism you CHOOSE to be poor

>HOPE

Fuck you, welfare queen

whatduhya think i'm BROKE? huh?!

>implying I'm American
nice try jackass

It's amazing, so much of their ideology is fundamentally driven by failure and jealously. They aren't talented or hard working, so everyone needs to come down to their level.

Surely it's not their problem that they suck, it's everyone else's problem..

>you just have to work hard.


Protestant family upbringing

hard work is not enough! You also need smarts and AMBITION

Within the Democratic Dictatorship of the Proletariat, the leaders of the country will be elected from the ranks of the working class. Their pay will be held to that of an average worker, and they will be subject to recall at anytime by popular vote. This could most greatly be seen in the Paris Commune.

troll you literally just told yourself

they work 40 hours and have no time to do anything else because they are forced into this shitty system

are you another 30 year old with a 12 year olds critical thinking skills?