Kylo Ren - TFA
>Villain with emotional depth and reasons to his actions
>Inner conflict that presents itself as logical conflict for the story
>Clear goal, obstacles, and motivation
>Still has lots of training to do to become a great Sith
>Could logically still come to the light side - his future is unpredictable
Vader - ANH
>LOL COOL BAD GUY
>WEARS BLACK COS BAD GUYS DRESS IN BLACK
>LOL HE STRANGLES PEOPLE
>HE HAS A SPOOOOOKY VOICE!
I think most people would agree with you that Kylo Ren was more developed as a character in his first movie than Vader was in his. Most of Vader's depth and complexity comes from ESB and RotJ, in ANH he was just a bad guy in a scary looking suit. A charismatic and menacing bad guy, but he didn't have much to him.
Kylo ren
>autist
>has coolest parents in the world
>runs away from them
>idolizes a villain who fucking redeemed himself
Vader
>literally perfect
/thread
I like this bait. It's really, really, good
It's true.
Not even contrarians can deny that Kylo Ren is a much better villain than Vader. Just look at all the normies on Twitter and Facebook who hate him just because he isn't le epic evil badaszzz
yep
Ren's just a bland copy of the best jedi/sith who ever lived, Darth Revan.
well I guess here are the summerfags, this board should be forbidden to children (and manchild)
Vader was a better written villain, because he was a better fit for the role that both he and Kylo Ren played.
Vader was supposed to be an intimidating, brutish, evil enforcer of an empire, and he showcases that far better then Kylo did, who is constantly having trip-ups in his idealogy and talks about how he's constantly at risk of being taken by the light side. (By the way, they never actually say "light side" in the OT or prequels, it's something they made up in video games and this movie.) Vader is intimidating in the first movie, intimidating in the second, with you getting a bit more understanding of his character, and then in the third one, we get to see that there was something good underneath that all along, that ends up getting brought out.
Right from the get-go, Kylo wasn't that. He was arguably the best written character in TFA, but he was absolutely not better written then Vader. Vader isn't instantly worse a character because you don't get scenes where he does a soliloquy
about how he wants to be nothing but DARKNESS.
Vader is a memorable and cool character because of the performance, most of all. Not because the writers decided that we always needed to understand every facet of his motivation at all times.
Is Revan even canon?
his mask is such a rip off Raven
what you mean, revans is not canon, canons go boom
Kylo wasn't that, because he wasn't meant to be. You assume they are both filling the same role in the story, they aren't.
Kylo will be redeemed. And I don't mean like Vader's "redemption" where he switches allegiances at the drop of a dime and listlessly hurls an old man off a platform.
Not anymore. Kotor 1 and Kotor 2 are now noncanon. Plus side, though, that means Swtor is also noncanon, where they ruined his character.
Kylo Ren is the most interesting character in the movie - only Finn was equally engaging.
Rey is cartoonish and Poe is simply a convinient plot device.
Kylo could`ve been fleshed out a lot more but I like him - a Dark Side character we haven`t seen in Star Wars yet.
You can argue Anakin was that but it just fell flat and booring - Driver did a fantastic with the character and the lines he was given.
That said, I`m very worried where they`ll take him - I think in the short-medium term he`ll be a lot more focused, properly menacing and Dark but eventually him killing Han will come and haunt him, leading to his redemption.
We already saw glimpses of that after the commited the patricide - he feels weak, shocked and confused. He thought doing what Vader did not do will only strengthen him.
Ultimately, Kylo is a good person. He has been deluded and is deluding himself in to thinking he has a chance of being what his ancestor was - if you end up begging Vaders ''corpse'' to empower you with his abilities, shit is not working for you.
I will not be surprised if in Episode MCMLXXV someone will be telling the tale of ''The Tragedy of Ben Solo the Decieved''.
And Adam Driver did a superb job with what he was given. Best performance in TFA.
You have shit memory. Vader is in like 3 scenes of ANH and does nothing important. He is just a cool stormtrooper in that.
I bet you Rey will use green lightstaff just like Bastila
He's basically a caricature of Star Wars diehards. Like them, he is a lonely, unpleasant young white man who grew up at odds with his parents, obsessed over the paraphernalia of movies that came out before he was born. While every other major new character in the movies is just bumbling around with their own problems, Kylo is obsessed with the story of Star Wars and longs to take his place in its legend. Abrams' Star Trek movies had a similar message which essentially identified old fans with the villains, trusting that the new fans wouldn't care and the old fans would see the movie anyway just because they have to.
The movie is all about costly failures of machismo; the only male character who is broadly portrayed in a positive light (Finn) is also a weak buffoon. Much as Kylo represents the obsessive superfan who hates the movie but goes to see it anyway because it is Star Wars, the focus of his existence, Finn represents the average Tom, Dick, or Jamarcus on the street who just goes to see Star Wars because it is the cool thing to do right now. Meanwhile Rey represents Abrams' vision of the future of the fanbase, a little girl (she is almost completely desexualized and infantile, innocent figure for a female lead (hence Sup Forums's obsession with her as a sex object)) whose dreams of Star Wars must take a back seat to her real life problems.
This is also why Rey is ridiculously competent at everything she does despite never training at any of it. It's because her actions are meant to represent the kind of arbitrary imaginative play-pretend way you thought of Star Wars as a kid - you're flying the ships, you're moving things with your mind, you're fighting the evil mask guy with the red sword, you're not thinking about how incongruous that kind of fantasizing is with the world the movie portrays. Kylo's problem is he's past 30 and still loves Star Wars.
Rebels has been lifting from the Old Republic era constantly. It's only a matter of time until Revan gets brought back into the fold like Thrawn was.
So vader is cool because we barely understood his character? Kylo is clearly immature and wavering on his devotion to the dark side. He was taken from his training to be a jedi at a very young age and it shows. I don't understand the love for Vader at all, he has like zero depth and doesn't show much wavering in his faith to the emperor until he decides to save Luke. He's cool and all but not a great deep villain.
Yeah, it is comparing apples and oranges a bit, but even though Kylo's role was intended as a subversion, he still is the enforcer and right hand man of the real bad guy.
He plays that same role, and until the other movies come out, there's really no other ground to stand on.
If Darth Bane is canon, Revan has to be. Period.
>>>Villain with emotional depth and reasons to his actions
Whiny angst does not equal emotional depth.
>>Inner conflict that presents itself as logical conflict for the story
Actually, the story's main conflict is rebels-who-aren't-really-rebels vs. remnant-Nazi-Germany-by-another-name. Ren's angst is just something to make plebs feel clever for thinking he's a deep and complex character.
>>Clear goal, obstacles, and motivation
Any Saturday morning cartoon villain has those.
>>Still has lots of training to do to become a great Sith
Given Mary Ray Sue can beat him with no training at all, it's clear that training means fuck all in this universe.
>>Could logically still come to the light side - his future is unpredictable
You don't need a crystal ball to tell that he's going to go to the light side and betray his master. Because the nu-trilogy is copying the original trilogy anyway, so why not also in the way they're so unsubtly setting up?
Underrated post.
>Whiny angst does not equal emotional depth.
It equals more death than any previous Star Wars villain though, which is the point.
>people will take this bait
the only canon to the movies is the movies themselves