Why didn't Aragorn command these guys to just take out Mordor? would have saved a lot of lives

why didn't Aragorn command these guys to just take out Mordor? would have saved a lot of lives.

He didn't want to be a cunt to them, so he said their job was done, even though he briefly considered keeping them around.

They also kind of spooked him, and felt like bad juju.

Sauron has dominion over the dead. Take these guys to Mordor, you risk giving the enemy a super weapon unlike no other

Because their oath was to fight one battle for the heir of isildur.

I can't imagine any reason why Aragorn would want to keep his oath with an army of the dead that hasn't been able to rest because they broke and oath.

>lemme just fuck around with necromancy, sounds like a good idea in a world where magic has often dire repercussions and no power comes without price
i'd let them walk too even though being a lich lord of the undead is the one thing i want most

The dead broke their oath by not answering the king's call. Aragorn went to the Paths and called them again to defend Minas Tirith, which they did. Sure, the war wasn't won, but the Dead did fulfill their oath by answering the call. Aragorn let them go since they were technically "bad guys", but they had been dead for centuries. It was the "good king" thing to do.

Can someone explain this ''muh oath'' thing to me. I sadly didn't get the time to read the books.

lorefag here

In the book the army is nothing more than just a bunch of spooky ghosts. They can't do shit but float around and be really scary, so Aragorn uses them to surprise the bad guys at Umbar, and steal their ships. That was what enabled Aragorn and his retinue + the soldiers they liberated with the ships to make it to Gondor in time. After that there was no point in having them around + their oath had been fulfilled, so they were released.

By the third movie Jackson was going full hack, and it shows mostly in the scenes with the dead army. The movie representation really begs the question of how Isildur or any numenorian ever lost a battle, when they can just drop curses on people to turn them into invincible spectral warriors whenever they want.

They were supposed to be at the battle shown in the beginning of Fellowship, but they broke their promise to Isildur and never showed. So Isildur cursed them to remain on the earth until they fulfilled their initial oath either to him or to one of his descendants.

The witch king bends them to his will

What about the pic the similars or what they are called. I really wanted to read the lorebook that was released after the fellowship.

>he made the Eye of Sauron a literal watchtower
>by the THIRD movie Jackson was going full hack

that's first age shit nigga. like seriously deep lore shit. in the context of the entire middle earth mythos, the events of the war of the ring are like a few pages in an entire book of shit happening.

I read your post 3 times and it still makes no sense

Deer cod.

Explain what picture is about.

Because their oath was to fight one battle.

Also this. But IMO the dead army was fine for the movie, because there simply wasn't enough screentime to show Aragorn sailing down to that other part of Gondor, winning that battle, collecting those soldiers, and coming back.

In the books it was different. They didn't actaully kill anyone. They just scared the shit out of them and they ran away.

And they didn't scare the army at the siege, they scared pirates so that Aragon and reinforcements could take their ships and lift the that siege.

There's nothing about its description in the books that precludes the interpretation of it being on top of a tower.

>Sauron has dominion over the dead
Legit? I know that wizards are basically angels so god gave him control of all dead people?

wew lord

The Silmarils were these magic gems made by an ancient elf named Feanor, which had immense power and religious significance. Melkor (Sauron's boss) stole them, and Feanor and his people swore an oath to fight anyone other than them who ever held the Silmarils. This got them into about a bunch of stupid wars until they all died.

What was wrong with the tower?

Fuck school I got to read these entire series now.

Yes. Sauron had dominion over the dead/ ghosts.

Even the witch king could command spirits and he was a complete dick when using them

OK so what do the books say that contradicts that idea

I don't need exact quotes just in general, go ahead

Implying you could. Lotr lore is deep, i mean history encyclopedia deep

...

The "eye" is only mentioned sparingly and never in the way jackson interprets it

>Now news came to Hithlum that Dorthonion was lost and the sons of Finarfin overthrown, and that the sons of Fëanor were driven from their lands. Then Fingolfin beheld... the utter ruin of the Noldor, and the defeat beyond redress of all their houses; and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar. Thus he came alone to Angband's gates, and he sounded his horn, and smote once more upon the brazen doors, and challenged Morgoth to come forth to single combat. And Morgoth came.

Metal as fuck

I failed biology in high school because I was too busy reading the silmarillion in class instead of paying attention.

I think it was worth it.

>The "eye" is only mentioned sparingly
Yes. Hence many different interpretations of it are possible.

>and never in the way jackson interprets it
That's because it is never explicitly described or explained. It's this little thing called ambiguity. When figuring out how to show it in a film, there are any number of approaches you could take, Jackson took the one that made sense to him for the movie. You might not like it and that's fine, but there is no reason why it is less valid than your interpretation.

I bet you love the rock giants too

>get btfo
>change the subject
Guess that's that then

Biology is a meme course anyway

shut the fuck up faggot. your "btfo" argument is "he didn't say it's NOT a tower!!!!"

youre too dumb to seriously engage

why do we live on this earth and not some other one

I'm not even the person you responded to in the first place, just pointing out you are an idiot

user I don't mean butt in here but from the short conversation I just saw you and him have, you're the one being silly. Stupid, even.

Stop shitting up a LotR thread, fucking barbarians

But if it's not a tower what's the second tower besides isengard in the twin towers?

Too bad I wasn't having any "conversation" with him up until that post, retard

No.
Gil-galad was there.

In the books they don't even participate in the battle of the Pelennor Fields. They just help him scare off a few haradrim pirates so he can board the ships

The tower of Barad-Dur exists in the books, it's just that there isn't a giant flaming eye on top of it. Sauron's form is left ambiguous in the book though, which is why there's nothing wrong with Jackson's interpretation.

thats fucking excellent made me kek

daily reminder Feanor is a colossal asshole

Feanor did NOTHING wrong.

...

kinslaying bitch

Teleri did nothing wrong

easterlings*

>being so powerful you jsut walk up to a dudes house to fight

what the fuck

>And Morgoth came.
>and kicked his ass

They weren't really that poweful in the book. They just spooked a bunch of dudes and allowed Aragorn to build an army.

The movie made it seem like they won Pelennor, and not the armies that Aragorn and the Rangers amassed by raiding the coast cities.

Nigger was so mad he straight up called out the motherfucking devil.

Did we read the same shit?
Morgoth did terribly considering his genetic advantage.

is this from the Sim? Cause it ain't from the appendices.

it was based but come on, he hits him seven times then morgoth stomps him, he gets one last hit in, then dies, based af but he got literally crushed

In the book, the second tower is Minas Morgul, the Tower of the Rising Moon.

It makes more sense in context of the books because the Two Towers is comprised of two acts, one is the siege of Orthanc and the battle for Helms Deep. The other is Frodo's quest to Mordor, which ends with him and Sam in Cirith Ungol. Much of the first half of the book focuses on Orthanc, while a much (Maybe not most) of the second half focuses on Gollum trying to lead Sam and Frodo to Minas Morgul to enter Mordor, before taking the route through Shelob's lair.

Nah, it's bullshit.

might as well post it
>That was the last time in those wars that he passed the doors of his stronghold, and it is said that he took not the challenge willingly; for... alone of the Valar he knew fear. But he could not now deny the challenge before the face of his captains; for... Fingolfin named Morgoth craven.... Therefore Morgoth... issued forth clad in black armour; and he stood before the King like a tower, iron-crowned, and his vast shield, sable unblazoned, cast a shadow over him like a stormcloud. But Fingolfin gleamed beneath it as a star; for his mail was overlaid with silver, and his blue shield was set with crystals; and he drew his sword Ringil, that glittered like ice.

2.
>Then Morgoth hurled aloft Grond, the Hammer of the Underworld, and swung it down like a bolt of thunder. But Fingolfin sprang aside, and Grond rent a mighty pit in the earth.... Many times Morgoth essayed to smite him, and each time Fingolfin leaped away...; and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds, and seven times Morgoth gave a cry of anguish, whereat the hosts of Angband fell upon their faces in dismay, and the cries echoed in the Northlands.

there's no interpretation. the eye is an analogy for sauron's semi-omniscience. he can literally see through stone and storm and look wherever the fuck he wants. his mind and vision are inconceivable. he also physically exists and has a body, and isn't just a magic floating eyeball.

3.
>But at the last the King grew weary, and Morgoth bore down his shield upon him. Thrice he was crushed to his knees, and thrice arose again and bore up his broken shield and stricken helm. But the earth was all... pitted about him, and he stumbled and fell backward before the feet of Morgoth; and Morgoth set his left foot upon his neck.... Yet with his last and desperate stroke Fingolfin hewed the foot with Ringil, and the blood gushed forth black and smoking and filled the pits of Grond.

4. last one
>Thus died Fingolfin, High King of the Noldor, most proud and valiant of the Elven-kings of old. The Orcs made no boast of that duel at the gate; neither do the Elves sing of it, for their sorrow is too deep. Yet the tale of it is remembered still, for Thorondor King of Eagles brought the tidings to Gondolin, and to Hithlum afar off. And Morgoth took the body of the Elven-king and broke it, and would cast it to his wolves; but Thorondor came hasting from his eyrie among the peaks of the Crissaegrim, and he stooped upon Morgoth and marred his face. The rushing of the wings of Thorondor was like the noise of the winds of Manwë, and he seized the body in his mighty talons, and soaring suddenly above the darts of the Orcs he bore the King away. And he laid him upon a mountain-top that looked from the north upon the hidden valley of Gondolin; and Turgon coming built a high cairn over his father. No Orc dared ever after to pass over the mound of Fingolfin or draw nigh his tomb, until the doom of Gondolin was come and treachery was born among his kin. Morgoth went ever halt of one foot after that day, and the pain of his wounds could not be healed; and in his face was the scar that Thorondor made.

Great was the lamentation in Hithlum when the fall of Fingolfin became known....

So what Morgoth was like a giant compared to the other guy or what? Also why the fuck was Morgoth afraid of what his captains were going to say, nigga seems like he would shit on everyone with no problem.

I didn't read the books but I thought I read in these type of threads that only a fucking legit dragon could kill Morgoth or at least put up a fight

One day I'm gonna read this shit.

You have to admit, fucking the devil up and giving him wounds that burned for the rest of his life is pretty based, even if you died in the go of it.

Morgoth is a Valar; he could take whatever fucking form he pleased until he got wounded by Ungoliant, and then he got stuck in the form he had at the time, which happened to be that of a black knight.

fingfolin is some literally who elf who gave morgoth the most powerful valar a limp for life

pretty based

Morgoth created dragons so no even ancalagon could take him, but sometimes elves could, it depends u have to read it to get it, the noble ones can sperg /hulk out basically don't know how else to explain it, also if Morgoth didn't answer a challenge like that it would be weak af the war wasn't really going all that well at that point

You don't win a war alone, besides Sauron was among these captains, and the guy could give Morgoth a run for his money.

keep in mind that in the days before the lamps morgoth was literally a 5000 foot giant of ice and lava with eyes of burning death that went around greifing the mountains and seas of the world like a hacker on a minecraft server

It's from the hobbit

What are the Barrow-wights you cunt

That's wrongo, Sauron would get fucked. But he could desert him and that would be worse than fighting him.

im late to this reply chain but i thought only the witch king could control the undead. he was the big magic guy and sauron could control him

>Sup Forums - Tolkien Powerlevels

>so no even ancalagon could take him,
>ancalagon couldn't take him
ftfy

In the Tolkienverse, magic = spiritual strength. Sauron is a Maiar, same as Gandalf or Saruman, so it's logical to assume he can do wizard shit as well

Most fanart of the battle shows Morgoth as a behemoth. Personally I like to think even after Ungoliant he could still be as big or small as he needed to be.

It's very well layed out for us by Tolkien.

Mogoth was a Valar, comparable to a god.
Sauron was a Maia, comparable to an angel.

Read more on thu (lay of leithan) and the necromancer (hobbit)

Both are sauron both are explicitly stated to have complete mastery of the dead/ spirits

>Men called him Thû, and as a god
>in after days beneath his rod
>bewildered bowed to him, and made
>his ghastly temples in the shade.

>Not yet by men enthralled adored,
>now was he Morgoth's mightiest lord,
>Master of Wolves, whose shivering howl
>for ever echoed in the hills, and foul
>enchantments and dark sigaldry
>did weave and wield.

>In glamoury that necromancer held his hosts of phantoms and of wandering ghosts...

Sauron doesn't control them you nigger.

So Sauron created Wargs?

Read Nigger

I mean, the necromancer title is pretty self expalanatory.

reeeeee thats my major


i think it tells you alot about the world no matter ypur profession

I don't know about create, he exclusively commanded the werewolves/ wolf breeds

So how did Morgoth become the Tolkien version of Satan?

...

>literally who elf

Probably. They were kind of his thing back when he worked for Morgoth

People are legit stupid tho

>look at Legolas at the end there, he KNOWS what Gimli has and now they are friends forever

UH NO Legolas is going to wait till Gimli is old as fuck then steal them all lol

Eru "the faggot" allfather made him into satan so he (morgoth) would spice up his creation

Eru is the final villain

Boss nigger from the first age that got rekt by Satan after making him a cripple. The Ñoldor were known for being massive cunts. Galadriel is the last notable one left.

>tfw just finished Symphony of the Night
>see lots of names reappearing in this conversation

???

He is 1/3 of the holy trinity of the eleven race

At first he loved the new world, but he was at odds with the other children of Eru, and he did not want to follow any plan but wished to lead and set things his own way.

This turned to him willfully upsetting and disrupting the work of the other Valar. He tore down mountain ranges and flooded plains with water and did many other things.

This turned again to blind rage, and since Morgoth could not truly create, he wanted only to corrupt or destroy or ruin the creation of Eru. He is the source of all the monsters that ever plagued the w.orld

I always wonder if the discord during the song of creation birthed the "nameless" creatures like ungoliant and the watcher

My problem is that in the third movie even though all they did was talk doom and gloom they never lost a single battle period. That's why the last two movies are kind of boring in places. They never lose.

Hell, the only real battle they lost in the second and third movies was...I'm still thinking.