Sooo

Sooo...

Is the reason we haven't come together as a species and started to work toward the common good nothing more than the effect of people being incapable of coming to an agreement over a number of philosophical arguments?

I talk to a lot of people, belong to a church although I'm an atheist, and I always like to ask big questions when I can get a person comfortable/abstract enough and it seems like a great deal of what sways a persons view of life and the makeup of their efforts is their perspective on the big questions.

Primarily
what happens when we die, what is the purpose of life, and how we relate to others in contrast to ourselves.

People have very specific coping mechanisms dependent on the perspective they hold over various philosophical issues.

I mean... We're all just brains, abstract complex processes ect ect so on and soforth.
We KNOW what's reasonable, what is the best for us and for others.

Why can't we just reach out... And take Utopia?

People are trained from birth not to ask questions. It keeps them docile, easy to control.

Probably true.
But memetics exist. There's a certain number of people that grasp the fact that information is co-evolutionary with humans.
Like... I know enough biology to know I shouldn't be an alcoholic, still am.
It seems to be really basic reason that should dictate how others are treated, certainly is not at all, systemically.

Why is it apparently more fortuitous for most people to be a zombie herd?
Is it because the people smart enough to do the herding have decided that on a philosophical level all that matters is their own experience and therefore everyone else might as well be zombies so long as it serves their own ends?

If a person is smart enough to engineer society how could they not see the reason in that the best possible outcome is everyone cooperating to a common good?>

if all ants united, they could easily annihilate humans and take over. Animals are just meant to be able to survive and reproduce, coming together as a species isn't something worth evolving.

>Is the reason we haven't come together as a species and started to work toward the common good nothing more than the effect of people being incapable of coming to an agreement over a number of philosophical arguments?

No stupid. it's because the parasites at the top are stuffing their gullet with all the fucking resources on the entire planet while everyone else starves.

Kill those people, and you get a unified humanity.

The whole problem with stating that "we all know what's reasonable and what's best for us and others" is everyone's subjective view of the world and what they beleive lives up to those standards is subjective and so varied there can be no agreed apon absolute set of values.

>Is the reason we haven't come together as a species and started to work toward the common good nothing more than the effect of people being incapable of coming to an agreement over a number of philosophical arguments?
At a fundamental level, yes I think so. But life's not that binary. At some point people will disagree. Sometimes those people are very powerful, and this is what creates a division of nations. We also have to consider our other differences such as culture. It is very difficult to assimilate, and most people find that it is a destructive process.

Do not burn out the candle of old wisdom, as it leads to the life of a hair-dresser.

Won't matter. There is about 1% of the human population that is born as primary sosiopaths. This is a genetic anomaly that basicly makes them a sepperate species that preys on mankind.

>We KNOW what's reasonable, what is the best for us and for others.

The pieces of shit on earth with the vast majority of resources don't know or care what's best for themselves or others.

If you killed the Rothschild family, everyone in the world would suddenly become 100k dollars richer.

You really think hoarding that kind of fucking money is knowing what's best for you and for others?

You are naive OP.

>separate species

I couldn't have put it better myself user. They really aren't human. They're subhuman trash, and so are the guiltless amoral security and worker drone force that works for them.

Well ya okay. The people who are at the top got there because they're ruthless and willing to climb there using the rest of us as stairs.

But if people are just brains full of information and reactions therein and society is just a bunch of people that all agree to uphold certain ideas then why hasn't it yet happened that a bunch of people came together to make up a bunch of arguments that people can't reasonably argue against and began the process of converting things into... Yaknow, general reasonable goodness?

If it's just a series of good arguments that you have to teach the reasonable people that really only amounts to writing a, 'What a good person is, how to be one and why that's important manual'?

Security, police and military are the most immature of humanity in a morality and spiritual sense. They give up their personal responsibility and responsibility for their actions to a higher athoritive power and think it makes their actions justified. The man locking his fellow man in a cage for a law written by other men is still fundamentally imprisoning another human. A soldier who kills another for his country still has killed another no matter what he has been led to believe and how he may think he is virtuous for enforcing the will of his government through lethal force. They are the most devided and mentally enslaved amungst humanity. At least the sociopath is living in accordance with his nature

A great deal of your statement appears to fall under the genre of identity dynamics.
Giving yourself up to a large identity is a natural social things that humans do for nature of being human.
What I wonder is that you can see humans caging other humans, and killing other humans.
But for some reason it seems that you cannot argue against those behaviors because more people agree with them than those that do not.

But that seems to imply that not all arguments are bound to reason/logic, and I wonder why that's so ridiculously effective.

And why do some people seem to back the arguments that don't have sense.

Nobody want's to be unreasonable... Right?

Look dude, think about it.

If you were born in Medieval times under a ruthless and monstrous king, would you be inclined to invent a steam engine so that king could use it to cook you alive with it?

Summarily, if you hypotehtically had knowledge to build an anti-gravity mechanism with recycled magnetic energy for free, do you think you'd give away that knowledge so the people at the top could kill you for competing with >muhh oil companies?

If the people at the top want humanity to stagnate, then the ones at the bottom with the means to move humanity forward would be killed if discovered. If they're smart, they won't open their mouths, and they tend to be smart.

Look at Galieleo or countless others in history who had all the tools to advance humanity, but chose not to go further because their lives were threatened by petty, worthless wastes of life born already at the top with all the world's resources.

Control freak and soulless rich shitstains/satanists will always be there to stagnate and suffocate progress and science. They are not even human. They are a disease and so are their lackeys working for them.

No kidding dude. The people who work for the CIA, NSA, and most of the "high level" government/police force are soulless half-demons.

Sociopaths who always find a way find a way to justify their treason.

There would have to be an absolute change in the vast populations mindset to enact a change like that. The argument of natural law is basicly what your speaking of and its been around for quite some time already. The ideology exists but it by no mean is it taught or practiced. The problem is humanity is by nature competing with itself via natural selection and not all are created equal by any means. Through different times and states of the world all of the different personality types and strategys have had been the most effective so there is no one unified ideal operating system for humans. This will always be the way of mankind and different intelegence levels has a huge effect also

It's the way the world is set up to divide people's minds and create the systems of control that exist now.

Well yes but humanity describes all of us. Every human falls within the purview of humanity.

Societies and cultures are the mechanisms that regulate the function and teaching of individuals.

Natural law argument yes goes all the way back to the greeks and before to the first thinkers, what I keep asking is why don't the arguments to the effect of, "We should all be reasonable?" work.

I can understand religion and it's purpose and function and why it makes people more likely to believe not-truth because it's more comfortable, but why don't people who understand that rather than argue with religious people (Dawkins method) do more to systematically edit the information pool (Voltaire, Bill Nye, technically Hitler if you really need to mention Etc etc) for the next iteration to perhaps have the world be a bit better off?

You're basically smelling your own farts dude.

Trying to be a pseudo-intellectual and blaming things on religion while ignoring the real problems like poverty and resource hoarding real people have to deal with on a daily basis.

But sure, keep blaming all of humanity's problems on "cultural norms" or other such bullshit when it can be summed up in one word:

Greed.

We might of been a better society if we weren't suppressed and subdued by religion. It makes people so stubborn that there is a man in the sky. It's philosophical ideals are flawed and primitive. I think it's not slowing down anytime soon with the population increase and the more people being controlled by social media and main stream bullshit. We are getting fucked more and more each day. The new generations will be the downfall of society and the start of a new with two classes. Upper class and sheep.

We lost the class war.

I feel like that's largely projection.
Not an argument against your statement but you seem to be assuming my stance despite the fact that I'm mostly just asking questions.

It takes a lot of work to create good arguments/conversations and this is arguably the worst place to do it but it's the medium I have at hand.

I'm more concerned with philosophy than I am with sociology yes.

And I'm not trying to sound/be intellectual, I just... Don't have better words for trying to have this conversation than what I'm using.

Greed, selfishness, subjective urges and needs and reflexes.

Yes. But we also have reason and love and math and school and everything. I'm not yelling into the void, "Why aren't things better!?"

More specifically my question remains, "If reasonable people eventually come to the conclusion that cooperation is the best way forward and being reasonable is the best way to do things." Why that form of thought isn't in any way popular?

Perhaps we have too much white matter?>

Another thing I've been thinking about and realized is the nature of ones upbringing pegs you to a certian lifestyle and social status. I beleive this is in a way controlled by the powers that shouldn't be also. The people in the world at the highest levels grow up in a much less violent environment and are schooled at private institutions that focus on their problem solving skills and more mental persuits. Now the people in the lower class grow up in the public schools system that if full of violence and state propaganda. They go home after that and watch tv etc and struggle to survive. I think the elite's upbringing builds a person in a way geared to in effect be able to have the best chance to in effect be apart of the group running the world if they are mentally capable of it. As for the plebs, the elite create a harsh social culture and world for them so as to keep them divided and easily manipulated/controlled. That's how you build the minds of soldiers and police and criminals and the easily manipulated populace as a whole.

Religion is just an effect of the larger problem of resource competition.

Religion was invented to control the poor into giving their resources to the already wealthy church.

Now instead of religion we have things like fake charities and social causes. Of course, all fake and quite wealthy already, just like the churches of old.

Don't blame the symptom for what the sickness does.

I don't think there is a secret ruling class.
And if there is it's only made of people and money.
Being born into a station is entirely normal, but why does everyone think that it's the be all end all? The framework is, like society, entirely imaginary and only continues to exist because enough people support it..

Advertising is easy, reason/being reasonable is an easy idea to plant in a person.

Does it have to be us? People on the internet or maybe an AI, that makes the comprehensive education of the people happen?

There are active groups of people working in unison with a shared beleif and goal running and directing the world vs the vast aggregate of the population that is raised in the school system the controllers built and watching mass media for the majority of their free time. They have structured society in such a way that we are all chasing our own tails and all pointed in different directions. You also have to remember the vast majority of humanity isn't smart enough to mentally work out the true value of morality without religious dogma dictating it and waving the threat of eternal damnation over their head to help with their self control. Also the death of god left people looking for something to fill that void and no set of solutions was offered. This leads to nihilism or beleif in political dogma to replace the religious morality. Think natsoc or communism and the unwavering faith in political dogma that killed over 100 million people in the 20th century from these beliefs in the state. Fucking dangerous and deadly

I believe, though feel free to argue with me, that religion is actually more of a symptom than a cause.
After people got reason and abstraction they understood death and existential crisis and needed something to make them feel better.
Thus a series of lies was agreed upon and people felt better.
Religious people are statistically more emotionally healthy, in part due to their enhanced capability to look at all the terrible things in the world and being able to have faith that there is a higher purpose and design to it and that someone loves them and that death is but a transition period.

That's already the case. The total history of mankind has been genocide and war and we are in a tiny blip of peace in the grand scheme of things. I have a feeling there will be big problems in the future personally as we return to the mean

Well if weren't born in a first world country you are fucked. On average you'll have no political power, let alone resources to sustain a family. If you were born in a first world country you would have a better lifestyle and education but the education system is flawed. Kids/teenagers don't feel sleepy till 10:00pm or above and usually have to get up at 6:00am. Unless you have an uneducated family on diets, you'll likely lose focus. Discipline is basically non existent so ferals will disrupt the lesson. Then kids will not likely pack good food as they will be distracted of a morning or not pack it at all as the food will get soggy and undesirable later in the day. When the kid gets home they'll likely do leisure activities until bedtime and repeat the cycle. Schools don't focus on expanding your vocabulary or putting good mental gearing in you before you leave. Instead your filled with garbage that teachers are required to teach from the education board. Assignments don't really help you but instead cause stress. You're not being taught how to live a prosperous life but instead how to get good marks and to fall in line.

Man you come off as being a completely clueless and numb person.

I hope you are 12 years old. An adult who can't see the ruling class is honestly far below average IQ at this point.

You're trying too hard to seem smart and it makes you look stupid.

Basically yes.

Peace is not necessarily a good thing. In times of peace, infiltration by competing factions becomes the main weapon.

Many nations have fallen under "peaceful" times. Just as our society is falling.

Yes. It's almost funny how they replaced the trivium and quadrivium, philosophy and logic with Bolshevik socialist outcome based education(common core) and the world has gone to shit. They do not thaxh people how to think at all anymore, just produce

Teach not thaxh ffs

We'll never have a utopia because people will never be able to 100% agree on everything. Just look at politics for one country, let alone the entire planet.

Agreeing has nothing to do with it. Starvation has more to do with it.

I can live down the street from some die-hard gay, Muslim, SJW, liberal, conservative, etc. But if we are both safe and have food in our bellies it will never deteriorate to violence.

The problem is everyone is strained because the resources are being hogged by the pigs at the top.

Do you REALLY think muslims would be as violent as they are if they lived as well as the US and weren't constantly fucked with by Greedy amoral Jews trying to drive them out of their own homelands?

The education system is mentally handicapping students. The shit they teach doesn't interest the student as its brainless shit. It doesn't get them curious or get them thinking at all. Almost everything they teach isn't mentally arousing in any way. Essentially you learn the basics, learn a method, put your knowledge into action then poof! It doesn't exist anymore but only on your record as to how well you preformed. Schools basically waste all your early years as you only apply 20% of that knowledge. Wide reading is useless, analysis text and film should be optional, only basic math should be taught and not fucking Pythagoras and advanced algebra, history goes in depth into useless information etc. why don't schools encourage initiative and curiosity? Because they want it to be like this. Dumb fucking muscle brains that construct, go home and breed.

Persuit of utopia has lead to more deaths in such a short time than any other modern beleif system so far. I think chasing that dream is something that has to be very tempered

>pursuit of utopia
>greed and human stupidity as usual

Pick one.

Nobody ever in the history of mankind has chased utopia except maybe Hitler I guess. Most others were benefiting themselves, not thinking of the entire species at a time.

You must be trolling. The whole ideology of socialism is to achieve utopia.

I think the number one reason is that Homo Sapiens is a violent species. Conflicts and murder goes back to the beginning, Homo Erectus etc etc.
Just because humanity suddenly started building cities and live together in huge numbers it doesn't mean we aren't just animals.
Animals will always fight and kill. Doesn't matter if it's over land, food or just pure old aggression.

No it's not. It's to achieve even more power for the ones at the top.

Think about it. How much more autistic of an idea can you possibly get than to take ALL of the resources, then give them to the ones at the top to "redistribute" them as they see fit?

Socialism is a con by the rich to dupe the poor.

That drive is quite necessary and important for survival, especailly as we start traveling further into space.

A forced peaceful mindset means extinction and slavery on a galactic stage. But a species with a built-in defense mechanism becomes more survivable and competitive.

Violence doesn't have to be mindless. It's all about survival.

you broke Sup Forums rules, you are not a fag, OP

>Why can't we just reach out... And take Utopia?
Are you new?

Hey retard. I have a question for you:

If religion and the idea of an intelligent universe is just something to comfort stupid people, why is it that the great minds throughout history, eg. Isaac Newton, Galileo etc were such keen students of occultist philosophy and theosophy? Nearly all known sketches attributed to Newton depicted Solomon's temple (in which occult teachings state Moses placed a representation of the planets in a circle around a large flame) and he spent most of his life contemplating ideas/artefacts like this.

It's incredibly arrogant to assume that you're somehow more intelligent than others just because you're an atheist. The parasites that run the planet have subverted every religion away from the path of truth, peace and the teachings of their founders.

>There's a certain number of people that grasp

> I know enough biology to know I shouldn't be an alcoholic, still am.
you dont have anything to channel the addictive personality that you have. you failed at life.


>If a person is smart enough to engineer society
only a small few know how to engineer it, the rest is just winging it.

There are several instinct that are designed to come together as people.
Only a few races posses this instinct, the others just take advantage of that.

This is not the problem.
The top is feeding every one else creating the development, the bottom ones are the parasites.
>is this bait?

>only a small few know how to engineer it, the rest is just winging it.

Most people could probably figure it out, but they don't have the resources of all the media stations + pharma companies + medical companies + industrial companies + energy companies + everything else at their immediate disposal.

The subhumans at the top aren't smarter than anyone or anything. They just have all the stuff.

You are a fucking autist guaranteed.

The parasites at the top love to call their hosts who pay for all their shit the parasites. But they are the true useless eaters.

It is because of niggers user.

>Violence doesn't have to be mindless, It's all about survival

Oh I agree. I got serious anger issues my self.
Did a few years behind bars for it.

I defiantly agree with you there. The base idea of Marxist utopia and the other socialist ideologs is a very sly play on pitting groups against each other to justify redistribution of wealth. The problem is the world is made up of individuals and a group is a mental construction. By lumping people into a group and saying they are exploiting you and you are a member of a exploited group dehumanizes the "rich" and justifys violence against individuals. Every person has a different history and path that has led to their state in life. Some is from family wealth, intelligence, innovation and hard work. This doesn't matter as your seen as the evil rich exploiters and as such seizing all your wealth is totally fine.

implying that the lower income homo sapient isnt really just a braindead zombie breeding out of control and in need of control as they are locust.

Plumber
>Contributes to society
>Doesn't cause major international wars
>Fixes your shit when you need it like a coolbro
>makes a moderate income to feed his family

>Parasite

Banker Trillionaire
>Contributes nothing to society
>Eats and eats and eats and wastes and eats some more
>Ploys nations against one another for even more pointless money to suck up
>Sits on resources while others die in poverty

>"Feeds" everyone

The rich deserve to be humanized. Anyone with over 1 trillion dollars net worth is not a human in my eyes, just a tapeworm.

Millionaires aren't rich enough to be hurting the entire species.

Even billionaires are no problem if they aren't actively using their money to hurt the species.

But just the very act of having a trillion dollars already hurts the species and demands capital punishment.

>They really aren't human. They're subhuman trash,
You mean like niggers?

Do you think the higher income ones are much different? They're literally the same mindless zombies except they have the capability to cause A LOT more damage to the entire planet/

People who annoy you

Niggers are the trash at the bottom.
Trillionaires are the trash at the top.

Both trash.

So you are saying being able to make a logical desision with out using muh emotions makes you a sociopath?

And the trash in the middle bracket???

Stop breeding so much you dumbass

Normal people trying to survive I guess?

Moron

Can anyone help to please for identify this Raptor??

So you think stupid people should rule the planet.
>great plan.

Fun fact. majority of the resources is taken by "normal stupid people"

Veloci

>So you think stupid people should rule the planet.

They already do.

Surely you aren't autistic enough to think rich = smart? Are you?

>Fun fact. majority of the resources is taken by "normal stupid people"

Yes, trillionaires are basically normal stupid people. There's no reason they'd be smarter than anyone else.

> (You)
>Moron
the only problem this world has is over population of morons.
Morons that wil never contribute other then the maintaining of society whilst consuming resources.

insults are not going to change that.
insults are not going to give the empty consuming existence of yours any meaning

so which are right? the Assassins or the Templars?

>1% rules the world
>stupid people rule the world.
Pick one.

>the only problem this world has is over population of morons.

Yes this is a problem but it's compounded by resource hogs.

Both are problems which make the other worse.

There will always be people who don't agree on a certain way to run to run things. There will never be a Utopia, because people are stubborn as fuck, and there is not a thing anyone in the world can do about it.

Common Buzzard

so you think that the 1000 ppl working for some rich dudes boat are not going to burn more resources then it takes to build that boat.

you are a simpleton redditanon.

>.000000000001% rules the world
>stupid people rule the world

Pick both.

You are a hopeless autist if you think someone's smarter because they're born with 999999x the money of someone else.

Intelligence defined by the amount of money mommy and daddy saved up. Man you are stupid.

>There's no reason they'd be smarter than anyone else.
their ancestors and they were able and smart enough on a genetically basis to obtain that fortune in the first place.

Kek. There's worse, The Vatican user.
Let me explain:
>The Roman Empire exists and becomes the most powerfull empire in the world
>defeats and absorbed all the major powers in the world including their wealth
>Christianity arises and finally Constantine holds the council of nicea and consolidates Christianity
>Roman Empire transitions to the Catholic Church
>power and influence expands to this day and has fleeced the populace for thousands of years
>litterally watched great empires rise and fall through the century's all the while controlling spiritual matters and investing in catholic country's world wide using influence to amass an incredible amount of wealth
>Jews start fractional reserve banking successfully at the end of the napoleonic wars and have been making some money for maybe 200 years vs 2000+ years of the Catholics
I'm not condoning the fractional reserve system and the people taking advantage of it but there are other factors in the world

statistically rich people are smarter, silly leftard.

No... Do you even know how much some boats cost?

1000 low class working people won't even use up the value of an expensive boat in their entire lifetimes. Birth to grave.

Do you have any grasp at all at the quantities of money we are talking about here?

Think about how much a trillion dollars is.

That's a MILLION millions.

That's a MILLION millionaires.

Can you fucking grasp how much money that is? And the richest families in the world are rumored to have 30+ trillion or more.

Can you even fathom what kinds of quantities we are talking about here?

No, a thousand people workers use much less resources than the value of a single boat they're working on.

>bribery
>murder
>theft

>"smart"

Autism confirmed. I'm done with you.

No different thing all togeather

Yes because of more resources to buy education.

Not because of more resources themselves.

So you think the kids of rich people are smarter because their parents killed a bunch of other people and took their shit?

Really?

Not even the guy your responding to but fuck you are seriously stupid.

Not stupid enough to continue a conversation with some lower life form like you.
Enjoy the meaningless existence that you have.
you will leave nothing behind except for a carbon footprint.

you sound stupider than he does

Christianity has kept knowledge and information for 2000 years and has been spreading it during this time.
Many inventions and discoveries where made by monks.

Look dude I'm not talking about millionaires or billionaires here.

Some millionaires genuinely worked their way to the top.

I'm talking about trillionaires mainly. These people are parasites who were born into their insane luxury and wealth and have contributed nothing to the species. All they have ever done with their lives is swap money around and eat and eat and eat. They have done nothing for the human species.

>Yes because of more resources to buy education.
Are you trolling?, either way you are stupid.
You cant study yourself smart stupid user intelligence is based on genetics..

>stupider ?

Then stop buying shit from their companies stupid.
Stop working for them stupid.

>Streets of Monaco
>$1 billion boat
>$1 billion / 1000
>$1 million per worker

Most people don't make a million in their entire lives.

Is everyone rich the children of mass murders? Should we investigate bill gates and Steve jobs parents?
LARP harder user
This kind of thinking is what the people running goulags in communist Russia thought while shooting prisoners in the head or working them to death

And genetics is based on the money you're born with?

Autism.

Well if they own everything you don't have much of a choice.

And if they're the only ones who own the companies because all other companies are outlawed from getting big enough to compete with them, you also don't have a choice when you're looking for a job.

I work for myself and make most of what I own, but I can't not buy from the shit they own if they own literally everything.

There are forces at work preventing this sort of thing. They have brainwashed society and has been keeping them fighting against each other for a very long time. Know your true enemy. There are three main entities with smaller factions that need to be completely torn down and gotten rid of completely for your utopia to happen. Then the common people must unit under one simple condition. It's the only way.

They also dictated morality to their populace and enforced it, and burned witches and warlocks at the same time

I could type up an essay about this, but I'm not going to.

I recommend that you read up on political philosophy, history, and economics (particularly world systems theory).

keep thinking!

Those people aren't trillionaires, just billionaires.

And Bill Gates contributed a lot to the species, along with the amount of charity he gives.

He doesn't have much in common with, say, the Rothschild family that started WW1 and WW2, and they have a lot more money than he ever will.

So you need 10,000 ppl for that.
10,000 cars 10,000 homes 10,000 useless mouths to feed.
You think that outweighs the resources some rich dude consumes sipping champagne in port how?
The rich enable the existence of the poor stupid people.

Also read what I said before. I have no problem with millionaires at all, or with most billionaires. Especially if they changed the world for the better like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs.

Engineering society is the problem

You said 1000 not 10,000.

Most people will not use a million dollars in their entire lifetimes including car and home.

>You think that outweighs the resources some rich dude consumes sipping champagne in port how?

Yes because they get bored and cause political pressure which causes wars and destroys the species from within.

>The rich enable the existence of the poor stupid people.

The ultra rich parasite off the poor. Then blame the poor for being parasites.

>Well if they own everything you don't have much of a choice.
Because you are not smart enough to think up any other way to survive other then being a lackey.

Living in peace with nature is natural for all life forms.