Liberals of Sup Forums, what is it you actually believe?

Liberals of Sup Forums, what is it you actually believe?
All I hear lately is how you disagree with this guy.

It's seems like you don't have any actual platforms or positions. What is it you're actually passionate about and believe in? Why should anyone take you seriously?

Help us understand. Not with froo-froo fairy tale ideas. Real-world, feet on the ground, practical things.

Do you know what you believe? Do you know why you believe what you do? I'm really starting to wonder.

Give us a reason to take you seriously that doesn't involve celebrities tell us what to think.

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youtube.com/watch?v=Tq86Beh3T70
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twitter.com/AnonBabble

If the media is controlled by corporate interests and the pedophile literati
and they hate this guy
does that mean I need to side with them?

liberals went to bed, only grownups online now.

meh. Vast majority of liberals that like to spout opinions (and therefore are the ones that get heard) are all about "Anti-this or that", with no clear alternative. As much as liberals hate trump, they don't have something else to offer America since Clinton got beat. It will be a year or two before they have anything to offer the US other than "Anti-Trump" rhetoric.

I would say that's a good reason not to side with them if what you say is true.

Hypothetically, if I were a liberal (not saying I am or am not), and professed to be against evil corporations then I would also have to assume that the media, like every other evil corporation, does not have my best interests in mind and could very well be feeding me lies. IF I was a liberal, and stuck to my professed belief system, then I would also be against MSM. Just my thoughts.

I fucking live Trump, but that's just because I'm a journalist and he gives me new material every single day.

I'm not American, and I really can care less about what's going on in your counrty, but didn't republicans reject some bill about crazies with guns? Something about them now being able to buy guns now?
If you ask me that's kinda retarded. I mean, letting a mentally ill person buy a gun, knowing that they're crazy enough to shoot up a public area for no reason? C'mon....
If your president is republican, and the people who voted for him are too, and they actually thought this was a good idea, then your country is gonna go down the drain very very soon.

yfw when you realize the two liberal bastions in the US are the cities in which people choose to live clustered together, over populated; therefore creating artificial scarcity of resource leading to the libs thinking socialist agendas and ideals are the correct direction of our country. To this end they construe race as a weapon and desperately try to wield it in any and all situations in order to inflate their cause with an artificial moral superiority which cannot be denounced without fear of being labeled all the things they accuse Trump and anyone who voted for him of.

This concludes your redpill about the left.

I dunno maybe put forth a presidential prospect that knows how to pump their own gas?
did you know most career politicians have forgotten how to drive because they live such cushy lives

The issue lies in the fact that the bill said anyone with any documented mental illness could not purchase a gun because they may act out. This paints everyone with a disability in a negative light and infringes on their rights as citizens.

The past election was very "Lesser of two evils" and was a giant pissing contest over who was the worse person, rather than who was actually better for the country. Crap election, crap setup, crap selection.

fuck you aint no fuckin doctor gunna tell me i no longer have a god given right to purchase and own arms. if im that crazy i should be in prison. more people die by hammers than guns so guns are not really an issue for crazies.

anyway that legislation was specifically made to target competent seniors whos finances were controlled by their children (was about those who did not manage their own finances NOT about crazy people - thats FAKE NEWS, bro).

This is a conversation specifically about liberals.

Stop trying to derail the topic of conversation by bringing up obscure nonsense not related to my OP. You're not fooling anyone with your attempt at disinformation.

this. Have mental illness is not a criminal matter yet this bill would make it one by stripping a constitutional right. They couldn't pass this without taking a shit on the constitution.

Yes but then they can declare someone unfit and take away guns.
Let Americans have guns, Canada Has guns, even Australia has guns
Yes Gun free Australia lets you have hunting rifles and Gun licenses if you need it for work

I consider myself to be a liberal because I recognize that capitalism in its current state is about to blow up. We need major economic reforms that end major problems traditionally seen as a given in society, like racism and poverty.

This is the way forward, a world where everyone can prosper and succeed.

Exactly my point. If anyone has any questions for an actual liberal, I can try my best to answer them to the best of my ability. I'm down for some civil discussion tonight.

I bow to your trips.

I dunno. Seems the current Dem party structure was based around an "Old Guard" person like Clinton or someone similar in, riding on Obama's coat tails. They have no idea how to function now that they have been beat. Getting someone reasonable/practical nominated by the dems wont happen until the current party structure and crew changes. Probably won't happen for at least another election.

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I'm a socially liberal fiscal conservative gun owning mother fucker. I hate trump more than I hated Hillary. Everyone is a faggot but me.

...

So you don't have an actual position, you're just "anti-capitalist" like the other user said.

Tell us what system you think has worked better historically in the past to support your ideology.

You fucking idiot, liberals are for a capitalist system.

How do you feel about several high profile libs coming out to say that if you still believe in traditional liberal ideals, then you actually lean conservative in todays political climate and should be embracing and finding comon ground with conservatives?

example:
youtube.com/watch?v=Tq86Beh3T70

I dunno the gulag archipelago seems pretty cool

Help me understand this

Liberals are the ones crying that Trump is trying to dismantle obamacare without a 100% clear alternative, yet you just advocated for dismantling the entire backbone of the US (capitalism) with no clear alternative yourself.

How does that not make you a hypocrite?

It's just the natural transition, some people want to move away from capitalism faster than others.

When you want to improve society, at least for economic models, you don't choose one from the past. You can describe any position as anti-something. Pro life is just anti abortion. Everything has an opposite. Just semantics.

Now, hear me out. I really don't care about social issues as much, but you can see how economic adversity is bad for democracies. These inequalities in society lead only to conflict and clog up the works of our system. Capitalism does not have the proper rewards system that we need to move forwards, it does not promote the kind of long term investment that we need.

America is about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome. There is no racism in capitalism. we also have the best income mobility in the world.

I'm a liberal and I love Donald Trump, so far.

However...

I believe that if we refuse to eliminate the corrupt inheritance system and oligopoly rent-seeking, the best solution for the economy to counter-balance corrupt inequality sources is to turn to socialistic programs such as nationalized healthcare and college education.

I would prefer that we stick to a more pure capitalism, but that is not in the best interest of the super-wealthy. They want to kick down the ladder of capitalism with corporate socialism. We might as well respond with populist socialism, in that case.

Hillbilly.exe

>It's just the natural transition
lol what?

in case you missed it the first world runs on capitalism, what exactly are we transitioning to? a 3rd world shit hole?

Given how several of my right-wing friends have acquired the "its commie/leftist, kill it with fire" mindset, you might have trouble finding common ground. People seem to hate politics and thoughts based on the label, rather than the content.

which is what exactly? What specific policy do you advocate?

Why did you post in my thread while clearly disregarding my OP? It was literal questions you just ignored and pretended didn't exist.

>America is about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.
>what is affirmative action, what are tax brackets, etc

youtube.com/watch?v=xlaCdVercCg&t=0s

Both parties must be teared in pieces and rebuilt from the ground up.
And having someone like trump to demolish the republicans is a good start.

The more these people try to create a divide, the worse the system will become. I try to find common ground with anyone I discuss politics with so as to establish a relationship that isn't based on disdain for each other's ideals. But one can also observe the fact that these comments cause the space between the parties to become wider.

Fair enough, but how do you feel about factually aligning more closely with the ideals of the right now instead of the left... that is if you still believe in traditional liberal ideals.

Shut up Professor podcast

libtard.bat

If that's so then I'm not a liberal. But I think most people agree socialism is a liberal ideology.
They gotta go. The thing is that thinks of the political landscape as 1 axis. Left or right. Now it's two: establishment/anti and left/rigjt. The Democratic party is doomed if it continues only to focus on social issues and not economic ones. This is why it must change.

You asked what I thought about Trump. I answered.

>"It's okay to punch a nazi, because they're nazis"

That's definitely not something coming from the right, pal. antifa anyone?

what the fuck ever
your guy is in the big seat
YOU come up with some real plans

Good thing you can't shoot up public areas.
That's illegal.

affirmative action is a shit policy. Tax brackets have literally zero to do with anything

who dat

Why would OP come up with plans for Trump? That's Trump's job, and company.

I supported Bernie Sanders. Never liked Hillary too much, personally. Supported her out of team-spirit, I guess.

>capitalism in its current state

I dont understand why we are supporting someone who wants to dismantle the EPA.

>Tax brackets have literally zero to do with anything
yes they do. they redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor in the name of "fairness" aka equality of outcome.

"fair" is paying a fixed percentage, logically speaking.

And the opposite of capitalism is communism, you just don't want to say it and make it clear what you're advocating. You want to call it something else, but even if you did it still wouldn't work.

This is where I have a problem with liberals. You really think you're slick and you really believe you're getting over on people, but you're not. Play all the wordgames you want, it's still the same shit.

Holy shit, can't believe you guys have Internet access, do you sext ur sister using the amazing 21st century technology??

Well I agree. The thing is I think we think differently about what opportunity means. If you think, for example, every American deserves the opritjnity to have fresh produce and be able to attend college, I agree. But that's not the case today.

A great one would be universal healthcare. Eventually high minimum wage or basic income, large investment in public college and infrastructure. Funded through estate, luxury, capital gains, income and derivative taxes.

I would have to agree. The dem party has no platform that speaks to the people. They continue to wield fake social issues as their main talking points

Disagreeing with Trump is a full-time job because of the sheer volume of bullshit he manages to spew forth.

Myself, I take exception to the "liberal"/"conservative" dichotomy as overly simplified and reductive, but am reasonably far left and pro-personal freedom. Not a communist or anything, but definitely a socialist.

In short, I'm for knowledge and against what you might call "political bias" - this has nothing to do with left/right or authoritarian/libertarian, it's just a general protest against "hurr durr I'm [x] so I must believe [y]" because that shit makes no fucking sense - and that guides my positions at least as much as pure ideology. I'd like to see a technocracy or an actual meritocracy for once.

Apart from that, I generally think that people should help eachother out and not focus every instant of their existence on fellating Ayn Rand and generally being a massive jew, and that corporations need to be controlled because greed is one of the major things ruining the fucking world and they're one of the foremost powerhouses of fucking shit up. I believe that one should be free to do whatever as long as it's not blatantly useless and that the entire planet is shite at using people's talent. I strongly resent the paranoia that's causing most governments to spy on everyone on the goddamn planet except possibly some dudes in the jungle. (Do you know the risk of dying to a terrorist attack? It's pretty fucking low)

No, I'm a capital C communist. I am quite willing to defend it. I think it's a good way to structure an economy, but needs to be phased in. Hence , Socialism. I'm also not an authoritarian, and authoritarianism isn't linked to communism. I'm an advocate for democracy first, communism second.

Classical Liberal here. Completely pissed at the democrats and MSM. Trump hasn't done anything yet that I'm actually pissed about.

Worst thing is maybe Devos as Education Secretary, and frankly what the fuck ever. Education here is so far gone that I've reached fuck it.

>what the fuck ever

I asked for you to explain your beliefs and why you believe the way you do (any sort of evidence, reason, logic). At no point in my OP did I claim "Trump was my guy." I'm giving you an open platform to explain your beliefs, your platform, why you side with "liberals" and all you just gave me was "what the fuck ever" like an angry 8 year old.

Are you ashamed of what you believe? Are you confused why you believe what you say you believe? What's the problem here?

stop projecting, asshat.

little do you know i am a dog who has taken his owners absence as an opportunity to discuss retro mylasion typewriting on an asian cartoon sex imageboard.

I'm a liberal and I mostly support Trump though I would have prefered the Burmeister.

Most of Trumps 'controversial' policies are just bringing the US in line with other western nations.

The Democrats only have themselves to blame for throwing the election with their empty campaign and track record.

Personally I think we're at the point where we should be considering transitioning to alternative forms of government. Something like a proxy voting or direct democracy would prevent elected representatives from sandbagging important issues or bundling a bunch of contradictory initiatives.

Then we agree.

universal healthcare is a disaster
and a high min wage would do absolutely nothing except eliminate jobs and drive up the cost of other goods and services. A high minimum wage just doesnt work. Instead of blaming a job designed for a high schooler, blame a person who doesnt have any ambition to improve their status in life.

The problem with all these taxes is all the money goes back to the friends of politicians.
Award my company this building contract for Tamany hall 2.0 and Ill give you a sweet job when you get out of office

Rationality? On my Sup Forums?

GTFO

>not realizing he acts ridiculous on social media as a ploy to make sure the corrupt MSM focuses on that instead of lying about real things hes doing.

They take the bait so easily at this point.

well... I would say that I am traditionally a conservative (especially on the constitution), but with liberal ideas on regulation of business, and on personal liberties/self-determination. Unfortunately, given the faggotry displayed recently by some of the crazier Republicans, I agree with the Dems on more issues than not.

I oppose trump on a personal level, I think that we would be better off with the three stooges in office. Trouble is, there is no legitimate alternative that can be held up against trump at the moment. Until that happens, and a proper figurehead comes in that people can get behind, not much is going to get done.

Cuck

I'm still waiting for a libtard to provide actual evidence for the one thing they call him most often, a racist. It seems to be an assumption with zero to back it up other than conjecture. OH, and that one person that wrote a book about Trump that says he said a racist thing in said book. Hearsay, also, seeing a book. Libtards just decide whois a racist, a Nazi, ect by appeal to the masses, their own, and that's it. Then they all parrot it like it's a proven fact and never question it all. Many of them don't seem to have a grasp on the actual definition of the word as well.

>Then we agree.
good.

>high minimum wage just doesnt work.
should say: minimum wage just doesnt work.

why are black teens unemployed? shitty culture? genetics? no. minimum wage.
jamal can't get a job that pays $9 an hour when he can't speak English. he could get a job for less and get valuable job experience but there are none.

at least thats what friedman and sowell said and they are pretty smart, eh?

We have a constitution that says American citizens have a right to bear arms.

I'm a liberal, but if we want to change that we should do it legally.

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>dae le cuck xd xd ecks dee

Fuck off back to red dit, you're making us all dumber.

What a retarded post, Hillbilly.exe 2

Jesus, can you people not verbalize what you believe without name-calling and going on about something unrelated?

>trump spews bullshit
>people blowing ayn rand
>something about jews

Like none of that addresses my OP. For fuck's sake it was a simple question.

And, in your mind, you actually believe that communism/socialism can work when literally every example of it in history has failed save for, what, two euro countries with populations of about 2 mil people? It clearly cannot work and does not work on a large scale due to human greed. You'll never "figure it out" to take that one thing that makes it fail out of the system.

Let's take it even further and say those small euro countries where socialism has been tried ARE equal to places like Russia, Venezuela, Cuba where it's clearly failed (they are about 10 times the size but sake of argument). Now, 2-3 out of 10-15 countries in the world actually had a semi-successful socialist model. That's a success rate of less than 10%. When you took a test in school and scored a 10/100, did you pass? Did you get an A?

Why cant he get a job? Whats stopping him?

Min wage is designed to be an entry point into the workforce. It has to be somewhere. Only thing raising it to 15 will do is hyper inflate our entire economy.

not even white faggot

SAVAGE!
jk. its not. its lame. why not make an argument?

just to mess up with your minds a bit: i'm italian. Around here being "liberal" is considered being conservative right wing, as it is about liberalizing the market towards a more capitalist system, we do not consider being liberal about ethics or religion. In Italy I'm mainly a liberal, even if i did vote left once, as i want a free market setting even if i do like the fact that in italy we have a decent social welfare system. If i understand US correctly, there my ideas of a free market and social welfare would define me as a democrat. Still, when i hear all the equal rights bullshit about feminism, vegans or anything else that you faggots have been capable of producing lately i feel sick. Still, i would probably not have voted for trump, he scares the shit out of me just for being totally incompetent, he does not have any idea of what the world is (beside what makes or do not makes him make money) and i am afraid that his incompetence will push us towards WWIII

>Whats stopping him?
i said whats stopping him. lack of education/skill. most black teens literally cannot speak english. don't you understand how damning that is?
YO YO LET ME AX U A QUESHUN U FITTN 2 GO TA THE STO 2DAY?
you want that shit in your business? no.

>It has to be somewhere.
no it doesn't shit worked FINE before minimum wage.
minimum wage is a wedge between the VOLUNTARY AGREEMENT between employer and employee. if i am willing to work for less than min wage who are you to stop me, friend?

milton totaly OWNS this debate in my favor check it out if you care.

You're the same Italian who thought that US pulling out of Japan would cause WW3 because North Korea would invade them right?

Do they just not have schools in Italy or are you just retarded?

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The republican party never wielded any over hyped social issues? Right. It's a two sided coin, if we want it so bad why are you so opposed?

Sounds like a defeatist attitude. We're an incredibly rich country, and our schools suck. They often suck for reasons that have nothing to do with resources, and everything to do with people not giving a fuck, so you're part of the problem.

Like who? which nations are we falling in line with? And aren't we supposed to the leader? I don't recall a travel ban coming from Germany.

>Personally I think we're at the point where we should be considering transitioning to alternative forms of government. Something like a proxy voting or direct democracy would prevent elected representatives from sandbagging important issues or bundling a bunch of contradictory initiatives.

I hope you're kidding. Our system of government is massive, complicated, and requires hundreds of thousands of specialists, who collectively steer the largest military alliance in the world.

Maybe stability is a little more responsible than throwing all of that out.

So you are an economist? Maybe you actually used obamacare?
Also what do you do that makes you such an expert in ambition?

Politicians on both sides do this taxes or not. You do realize they have other means of corruption besides taxation?

That's why there are so few revolutionary communist, we pretty much all agree democracy will transition slowly to socialism which from there communism could be possible.

Have you ever thought that maybe the reason he can't talk good is because the education system is awful and needs to be redone? You could have given any example without bringing race into it.

First off im debating you not Milton.

>no it doesn't shit worked FINE before minimum wage.
minimum wage is a wedge between the VOLUNTARY AGREEMENT between employer and employee. if i am willing to work for less than min wage who are you to stop me, friend?

extremely conservative ideal which I happen to agree with. I dont think there should be a min wage when it comes down to it

>i said whats stopping him. lack of education/skill. most black teens literally cannot speak english. don't you understand how damning that is?
YO YO LET ME AX U A QUESHUN U FITTN 2 GO TA THE STO 2DAY?
you want that shit in your business? no.

so whos fault is it he speaks this way? Schools? parents? culture? community? who.

>HC was the first to establish...

stopped reading right there. ignoring the cold war and all that, romney made big news when he said russia was the US #1 threat when he ran for president.

>Catalog
ah ah ah no i'm not, but on a general leve l i'm not sure you want to compare average education level in italy with USA, 2/3 of your fellow americans have no understanding of any other country beside their own block.
Oh and obviosuly... we are still talking in our second language here, motherfucker.

>The republican party never wielded any over hyped social issues? Right. It's a two sided coin, if we want it so bad why are you so opposed?

Want what so bad?

And if Jamal was born into a ghetto where he doesn't know English or chooses not to go to school (even ghettos have schools) why should that be the responsibility of someone who doesn't even know jamal in another state?

I'm a Republican because I believe in greater states rights, more responsibility on the community. It takes a village to raise a child, not a federal government. If someone chooses to have a child irresponsibly then continue to be irresponsible and not take care of said child, there's no reason someone should be reaching into my pocket to provide for him/her. Dicks don't accidentally fall into vaginas and make babies. People make choices, good or bad, that affect their life. If Jamal's community doesn't give a shit about him, give me a valid reason why I, a total stranger who will never meet Jamal, should.

I ask for nothing from my government aside from maybe a highway to drive on, I get nothing from them aside from some street lights or some shit, and I refuse to let a federal government that doesn't even reside in the same state as me tell me I have some personal responsibility to take care of everyone else's problems. That's not freedom. That's not America.

>So you are an economist? Maybe you actually used obamacare?

Nope never used it

>Also what do you do that makes you such an expert in ambition?

Well if you are dissatisfied with the contract of your job you find a new job. really that simple.

As I said, and as you might have understood if you weren't busy blowing Ayn Rand, I'm not a communist. You won't see me defending communism.

I live in a functioning socialist country with one of the highest QoLs in the world, so... ok. I'm sure it's just an illusion, right?

Leaving aside the fact that there are working examples, your argument looks conspicuously "it sometimes fails and therefore is useless" - where, then, did your capitalism get the US? Oh right, oligarchy and plutocracy, that's where. But don't worry, I'm sure Trump and his millionaire++ buddies are really concerned with the average Joe.

Also, yes it bloody well did address the questions, you illiterate dumbfuck.

blacks and whites go to the same schools and get the same test results in inner cities while whites get jobs as teens and blacks don't. culture may be the cause of their disadvantage but the solution is giving them a change to learn in an environment that isn't a nigger ghetto, which they are robbed of by minimum wage which LOWERS THE AVAILABILITY OF JOBS to low wage workers.

min wage impedes entry into the job market for the uneducated. this is a FACT.

no, that's society. If you want to live on your own, buy an island.

So he says shit that's really close to the line, right? Like that border wall speech where he says stuff like:
> "When Mexico sends it people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

Well that sure sounds racist to most people. The real world isn't Sup Forums and you have to temper your ideas before you present them. Actions matter more to me though, and none of that is as bad as what the establishment has actually been doing for decades.

The reality is most illegal immigrants are probably good people. It's only a small percentage that commit crime (other than illegally being here). But I also recognize that having a conversation about borders isn't racist like the Democrats are saying, so I'm almost forced to side with you by default.

>this is how paranoid rednecks really think

top kek. it's been fun watching butthurt conservatives cling to the old ways of living, thinking DJT is going to magically bring back the low skilled jobs they used to have. Inevitably those jobs will stay overseas, and come 2020 Dems will be back in power.

Eventually all the old rednecks unable to adapt and get 21st century jobs will rot and beg for the welfare they voted against years ago.

And I'll be there to pay taxes to support you from my modern job, but not without saying I told you so.

Great discussions guys, but is anyone ITT (presumably a liberal) going to actually give me a legit rundown on what you believe and why? Like 6-8 things. Just basic platforms and why you believe what you do. I've yet to see it. Tell me what you, an individual, stand for that isn't just "Trump's a jerk."

This is all you need to know.