85% of USA jerbs in manufacturing have been lost in the last 20 years due to ...drum roll...AUTOMISATION

85% of USA jerbs in manufacturing have been lost in the last 20 years due to ...drum roll...AUTOMISATION.

What is to be done about it? Deport the robots? Start charging a 40% tax on all products made by robots?

ft.com/content/dec677c0-b7e6-11e6-ba85-95d1533d9a62

Pls discuss.

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The Machine.

>Start charging a 40% tax on all products made by robots?
not a bad idea actually and use it to fund a massive tax break for all companies using AT LEAST 90 percent human labour and paying their people a good wage.

I like how poor people who think their smart talk about the future and shill Universal Basic Income like its the only inevitability and its because automation is here and its great.

Fucktards the underlying problem are limited resources meeting a growing demand. And you know who is accelerating that demand? Unskilled labor and poor people/degenerates.
They have children at astronomical rates compared to people in skilled labor positions such as programmers or accountants. They are also the first who will benefit from this system.

How about require sterilization to qualify for Universal Basic Income?

Also how come no one ever seems to mention we already have universal basic income, its called welfare and it does not solve problems.

The problem is, EVERYTHING is, or has componenets which are, made by robots. Imagine the cost of say, a computer, or a car, if it was made purely by hand? I would guess they would cost about 10-60 times what they do now... imaigine paying $90,000 fir a MacBook...

Hi-ya!

>this

anyone who grew up pre-2000's know how much shit used to cost

None of our problems can be solved untill we curb our massive population growth. And China just got rid of their 2 children only laws. Their already overpopulated country is going to drive us into the greatest disaster the human race has ever seen: just way too many god damn people

What about educating your workforce so noone needs be an unskilled labourewr? Free education to age 21, and access to all for ongoing training, apprenticeships, and upskilling?

How are there too many ppl? Surely mpore people equals more demand equals more need to increase supply equals jerbs for all?

>The problem is, EVERYTHING is, or has componenets which are, made by robots. Imagine the cost of say, a computer, or a car, if it was made purely by hand? I would guess they would cost about 10-60 times what they do now... imaigine paying $90,000 fir a MacBook...

you have a point, but consider this: those parts can be made by robots and thus are subject to the tax. they then could be sent to a factory where human beings assemble the units and make a livable wage. those people can then spend more money buying things in the country cause they actually make money. as the economy rises so does the dollar, making buying the raw materials for the components cheaper and thus the price of the item becomes only slightly higher but normalized.

Wont happen.

Go to a class room, anywhere. Not all students will be above a C

>pic related
We anti-fascists kill nazis for a living.

WE ARE THE REVOLUTION!

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Yes, but surely that only works in a non-globalised economy? For example, its great if a US made Macbook costs $90,000 if it leads to jerbs in the USA, but ppl will just import $1500 laptops from China. Even a 1000% tax would make the laptop 'only' $15,000.

Nazis kill themselves.

And their families.

actually china just got rid of the 1 child only law and made it a 2 child law because they kept killing off the girls due to retarded cultural beliefs.

in a perfect world, sure. but its not how it works due in great part to human greed and the companies not paying the people properly so they have money to buy things.

True, but most peple have things they are good at, maybe those who make bad accountants could make good engineers, etc.

Also, not everyone will be completely upskilled, but a lot will be. Those that arent can still find usefull trades and positions. The problem now is that 95% of murica is filled with unskilled uneducated workers. They will always lose to China as China's unskilled uneducated workforce is bigger, and cheaper.

How about instead of this bullshit lala nanny state gib us monez bullshit we just make Logans Run into real life?

#JumpAgainstTrump

Spread this on Social Media if your an anti-fascist and want to end Drumpf!!!

a valid problem, one that can be fixed via import tarifs on goods brought in that the us also manufactures or outright bans on bringing in such items.

the biggest problem is that we have assumed globalism is a foregone conclusion when its not. I agree that resource trade is necessary due to the inequal distribution of population and resources over the planet, but manufactured items dont necesarily need to be imported at all

Agreed. However, suerely that can be fixed by strong labour and workforce laws, and strong regulation and enforcement of those laws?

Sounds like a pipedream, i know. But look at Germany. They have such strong laws and enforcement, and great education and infastructure, and their manufacturing is booming (and world leading).

Is Trump proposing a nanny state?

He want to tax highly those things that take away american manufacturing joibs (he says its jobs going overseas, though it demonstrable that it is actually ROBOTS).

>>Cars. Computers.

You are saying :

>> these "items dont necesarily need to be imported at all".

You can't keep increasing supply forever. Sooner or later, we WILL run out of resources.

Like and share on facebook to show that you stand against Drumpf

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I wonder who is behind this post.

Human ingenuity has a way or mitigating or obviating this. For example, fossil fuels being replaced by renewables. Food can be endlessly produced. Desalination plants for water, etc, etc.

>suerely that can be fixed by strong labour and workforce laws, and strong regulation and enforcement of those laws?

you are correct 100 percent. once humans in other countrys are able to overcome their cultural problems and the parts of human nature that lead to these problems in the first place it will pave the road to this becoming a reality.

the u.s. had to go through similar growing pains during the labour revolution during the industrial revolution.

I personaly think todays problems come from the fact that western society attempted to uplift countries like china, india and africa well before they were culturaly ready for the industrial era.

#ImWithHer

Did you read the OP? The Financial Times article re 80% of merican jerbs being lost in the last 20 years to robots, and how in the same period 'only' 13% of those same jobs were lost to overseas?

Or, was the 12 paragraph article too long for you?

DO IT FOR HER!

As jobs are automated, the average minimum skill level for a decent job can go up. Consider self-driving cars for example...what career can a mid-40's truck driver switch to when he's automated away that pays as well as driving the truck did? Imagine that cashiers, bank tellers, etc. are replaced by AI. These are low-skill jobs that many people work, and there's not much for them to switch to when these go away. College / training is too expensive now, they won't be abIe to afford it in 10 -15 years either.

Even if humanity as a whole can adapt, individuals are often greatly impacted and left with no way to adapt.
Making it worse...it's unclear if humanity as a whole can adapt. Middle class wages have been relatively stagnant while productivity has increased and other income levels have seen increases since the 1970's. Automation is likely partly to blame for this (there are a lot of other reasons).

Finally, jobs that previously seemed safe from automation no longer seem that way. Much of what many accountants do can be automated and is currently (my wife does this for a living). Automation is steadily chipping away at clerical and legal research jobs. I personally automated away entire positions at my previous job in photometry research.

they dont though. we know how to make them in america. and nothings stopping sony or mitsubishi from opening manufacturing plants here to avoid the tarifs or bans.

>Desalination plants for water

ive often wondered why we have not started with this shit full force what with the droughts and rising sea levels

fake and gay... watch out, your newfag is showing.

libcucks BTFO

Yes, it will be interesting to see.

What concerns me at the moment is the rhetoric about jobs being lost overseas is demonstrably incorrect, and yet it its followed wholeheartedly by the masses. I dont think we will get the strong regulation we need until people start realising what the real problems are.

Another penny in the bank, OP.

BUILD WALL!

AMERICA NEEDS DONALD TRUMP

>What concerns me at the moment is the rhetoric about jobs being lost overseas is demonstrably incorrect, and yet it its followed wholeheartedly by the masses

it shouldnt be ignored but i agree that it is WAY to pushed when there are other, arguably bigger, problems to consider

How is it fake? Its an article in the respected financial times reporting a study from Ball State University.

You can read the study here: cms.bsu.edu/academics/centersandinstitutes/bbr/currentstudiesandpublications

Just because you dont understand it or fail to comprehend it dosent make it 'fake'.

Fuckyou and your financial times subscription you kike

Automation will continue, and you are right many jobs are gone due to robots. There will always be a human somewhere in the mix to oversee said robots but will require a higher education.

There are however still humans required for many factory positions, and these jobs can be trained and are not hard.

the real problem is that these jobs will not pay well. what people are complaining about and what many people miss is high paying jobs that required no skill. i.e...pushing a button for $50 per hour. After WWII America was able to have these types of jobs because the US had bombed the shit out of American competition. No Europe, no Japan companies. unless you destroy other companies and make it so America has the only car company and computer company etc.. you won't see these jobs coming back.

>retarded cultural beliefs
you mean the law that says boys have to take care of their parents financially once they are too old to work and girls do not have to??

better have a male child if you want to survive retirement.

>that title
huehuehuehuehue

the media is fucken great.

80% of manufacturing jobs were lost to machines. Jobs in IT, machine maint. Etcetera were created. This article doesn't net the job loss/created from Machines. Jobs lost overseas have no offset.

As unemployment rates start to rise, rise into the 90s, the economy is going to radically change because very few people are working and there is little to no exchange of currency. The economy would basically stop. How would we fix this?

>>skilled
>>programmer
Choose one

>Ball State University
What kind of a dumb faggot are you? oh wait I forgot your OP.

looks like some more liberal lies.

libcucks literally are dumb enough to believe anything you tell them.

Test it out, go out and find a democrat and make something up and they will believe it.

I agree with you.

However, there are two points i raise:

Firstly, upskilling and education are the responsibility of the government. Raising and spending tax dollars spo that future generations are skilled, and the country hyas a skilled workforce. The US gov needs to step up, i fear it has already let things slip. And the US electorate need to demand high standards of education and skills trinaing for thier kids. Otherwise, in 20 years, China and Inda will have taken over the US economy.

Secondly, Who programs and makes and maintains the robots? Those all require jobs. Granted, there will be less than there were now, but this is how america needs to step up. If China want robots and programmers, then why dosent the USA provide them ,at a price? :)

We could not give auto makers a shit ton of cash

And those jobs require an education, which most in the workforce don't have / can't afford.

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fuck you thats how.

libcuck snowflakes on suicide watch

Nothing can be done about it. This is the price you pay for technological advancement. People don't realize it but this was inevitable.

really got my nog niggin

You don't seem to know what welfare is

They don't just send out a check every month titled welfare

There are a number of different programs but these are the major ones that people get:

Snap/ ebt: aka food stamps, can only be used on certain foods, can't be used on liquor or non essential things, this comes out to $7/day at maximum payout (maximum payout only comes under certain conditions that normally include multiple children etc.)

The next most common type is unemployment, and this is guaranteed to anyone who has a legal job for more than 6 months, basically for a few months after being laid off you will get 1/3 of your income up to a certain amount (maximum is like $300/month in most states) your employer pays for this while you are employed so this is not a handout, but something guaranteed to you.

Social security, only redeemable if you are severely disabled or you are over age of 65, output is determined by what you put into it, exception is those disabled from birth that get the minimum payout their whole life from 18

There are a few other programs but most are state based and differ greatly between states

Here here, well said.

>you mean the law that says boys have to take care of their parents financially once they are too old to work and girls do not have to??
>better have a male child if you want to survive retirement.

yup those ones. they are untrue now however as girls in countries like china are able to attend university and own companies and be as successfull as boys and ultimately provide for their parents. but still holding the belife that girls cant do this is the main problem and still needs some work.

india lags in this respect as they still treat women like property to be bought and sold for status and the like and thats where the cultural system needs to be worked out.

Give it up snowflakes, your just gonna melt yourselves here getting cucked online like you do IRL

Have you read the report? Which parts of it do you disagree with?

>Firstly, upskilling and education are the responsibility of the government. Raising and spending tax dollars spo that future generations are skilled, and the country hyas a skilled workforce. The US gov needs to step up, i fear it has already let things slip. And the US electorate need to demand high standards of education and skills trinaing for thier kids. Otherwise, in 20 years, China and Inda will have taken over the US economy.


If they wanted better education standards and training for their kids they wouIdn't have elected Trump. Trump voters romanticize the 70s and 80s when American manufacturing was booming and all you needed was a high schooI education. SecondIy, yes robots and software require people but a fraction of what used to exist, most of the money stays at the top, wiII never work its way back down.

It's impressive to see humans deny reality and keep on believing bullshit. After today's performance you know they are quietly shitting their drawers. "Really? We elected that POS? God Emperor is a lie!"

>Todays' performance
Which one?

>How would we fix this?

i hope it does not get to this point as it would end up in a similar situation as some 3rd world countries have where there are hundreds of people lined up at roadsides digging ditches and laying infrastructure to justify their government relief supplies

You read a fake report using fake information and want to discuss it?

Wow are you sure you are not like brain damaged or something?

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The study did net those jobs. That was one of its key components. And the lack of a skilled workforce through insufficient education and training is the result of...a poor government.

My point being, why elect Trump and yell 'yes, lets stop jobs going overseas!", when the real problem is robots, and the lack of government policy and funding for a skilled and educated workforce?

Tl:dr: ppl are barking up the wrong tree.

just as an fyi, no one likes her. she will be out in the next election. all she has left to her is the SJW vote and the muslim vote.

>722699718
Dude, this is a relatively interesting and well thought out post and debate.

Please don't lower the tone.

Did you read the report? Which part of it do you disagree with?

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the report is just more fake liberal media bullshit. have you ever been on a factory floor? the blue collar class is irreplaceable. they tried to automate that shit in the late 70s and early 80s, especially in automotive. the results was a staggering failure rate in products across the board and that was with the most cutting edge technology available on the market. Eventually the automation fetish pulled back and more boots were on the floor again.

not to mention, the companies who are most aggressively pushing to automate blue collar work are-oh thats right, companies staffed by asspie snowflakes and liberals who've never even dug a hole in the ground with their bare hands.

If you believe this article you're a lost cause living in a world of cartoons.

not the guy you responded to but maybe we can all agree here that at least trump is taking a step in the right direction? maybe not the bearing of that direction he should be taking but still in the right general direction

We don't. Destroying the value of our currency will be, in the long run, one of the best things that's ever happened to this country. It'll be anarchy at first, maybe a Civil War or two. But corruption would disappear almost entirely, including the corruption thats destroying America one election at a time. If money is useless, acquiring mass amounts of it via fucked up means will also become useless.

Have you ever heard of the Luddites?

They were a movement in the UK during the industrial revolution in the 1800's. They wanted to smash all the machines up.

see

actually i havent. which might be telling.

>blue collar badge of honor brandishing
>asspie snowflakes and liberals
You deserve to have your job automated, you fucking hick. Dont brag about "digging holes in the ground with your bare hands" like factory workers ACTUALLY still use their bare hands in the year of our lord 2017. Theyve automated all they can, the rest is fucking QC work. Don't glorify your goddamn position. You have a clipboard and a micrometer. Big fucking deal.

wut?

The report is from an established university. You cant call it fake just because you dont understand it or dont like it. That just retarded.

I haven't but now I'm going to read up on them.

Imao, twenty bucks says this dude has some dead ass factory job that's soon going to be repIaced with automation and or shipping overseas. Report after report shows job Ioss to automation, it's much different than the 70s / 80s

>. But corruption would disappear almost entirely, including the corruption thats destroying America one election at a time

can i point out that america is essentialy the reset of england where they left the uk in order to start again and lose the corruption. hell there was even a couple civil wars as well and there is STILL corruption.

as long as there are people there will be corruption.

Sounds like blue-collar snowflake shittery to me mate.

wow, hit a sore spot did i? what are you going to do, file an e-petition against my triggering you? crowdfund a hug campaign?

You can only take so many steps at a time. The point is, he is taking the wrong step, and so no, it isnt a step in the right direction.

His labor secretary believes in automating low skilled jobs. That is the worst thing that he could do - Trump has it all wrong.

True. Without something of value, we'll invent something else of value to replace it. Seashells, trade goods, etc. But this particular type of corruption, and income inequality, would be DRASTICALLY reduced if our current "something of value" lost all of its value entirely. But now I'm starting to sound like I'm quoting Fight Club or some gay shit. It just makes sense. If I'm mimicking any mentality, it's the Star Trek universe. Replicators made money obsolete. You could just summon anything you wanted (to spend money on) out of thin air (including money itself).

No just laugh when you lose your job to a robot and can no longer feed your dipshit family.

you know the funny thing about these guys is that I could let each and every one of you punch me in the face as hard as you wanted and the only thing i'd complain about is you bleeding on me.

>when they couldnt automate they downsized, went over seas or closed up shop.

this is actually what caused the 2009 financial crisis m8. and you hold up the auto industry but they were the worst of the lot for the above. look at detroit.

>5 sentences
>vs your 3 paragraphs of useless rambling
Yeah, I'm the butthurt one kiddo. You're just pissed someones calling you out on your "blue collar pride" bullshit.

>His labor secretary believes in automating low skilled jobs

i did not know this and if it is true then i redact my statement.

good fucking luck. the problems with your robot-future-fantasy start with my union, and end with your inability to have anything that works or is safe to eat or arrives on time.

>Reply to Thread No.722696193
haha, lol. I reckon you are right on the money.

I bet hes educated to age 15, minimum wage job. probably dreams abut working ni a factory, maybe he flips burgers at wendys for 4 buck an hour or somerthing. you get the feeling he yells "fake news" at everything he dosent understand, or work towards his confrontational bias.