Jesus. How did Spain fuck it up? They could be a superpower today

Jesus. How did Spain fuck it up? They could be a superpower today.

Were 13 tiny colonies really that hard to tossback to the ocean?

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By refusing to industrialize

>being a super power
>having a capital seperate from a large body of land

I can see that working with the UK (since the islands are small in comparison to America), but it just doesn't seem practical, and so far it has never worked (See also: the Netherlands, Great Britain, every european colony in africa -- except the french ones which were small 2bh -- and every european colony in America)

Sorry . :-(

By trying to steal our clay :^))

Your American colony is growing though ;).
Soon every american will write Halo instead of Hello.
he he

no need to say sorry españa-sempai, it was meant this way

DUDE SILVER LMAO

you'd be surprised

>They could be a superpower today
1. Is almost impossible 2 times one after the other.
2. Colonialism, at least as it was then, no longer exists. And spanish cultures doesn't fit well with liberal capitalism.
youtube.com/watch?v=EQL_EQi3M3o&list=RDGMEMc6JZQrQ__ROET3gGdz-TrwVMwcFQhk6a6IQ&index=13

Although we invented the word "liberal". But it meant libertarianism when was invented.

We didn't choose to industrialize or not. We couldn't defeat the power of the landowners that were holding the push in order to maintain the old economic structure.

when Spain did this, from 1492 to 1810, they had a population that was always less than half of France. like 7 million people until the second half of the XVIII century when it finally reached 10 million.

And also, there were no steam ships.
Because of that, it cant be compared to the British and French empires of the XIX and early XXth centuries. Those countries had a much higher population, much modern ship technology, and later, the advantages of the suez and panama channel.

It is impressive what the spaniards managed to do with such primitive technology.

They lost their empire for 2 reasons. Napoleon kidnapped their King, and put his (Napoleons) brother as king of Spain. Colonies were not going to remain loyal to that.
And when the King of Spain was put back in power and the Spanish colonies had known independence, he still wanted full absolutist control and monopoly instead of reaching some kind of compromise, like creating Kingdoms in the Americas and putting his offspring as kings/queens there, as some kind of commonwealth.

it's okay

The Spanish model of colonisation was absolutely shit-tier. They basically ran their colonies like mining operations without any thought for building sustainable or developed countries

> Napoleon kidnaps the royal family and replaces the king by his brother. Which doesn't go well either in European Spain nor in the colonies
> criollo aristocracy finds it impractical and stupid that you had to send your pregnant wife to Spain for the child to be on top of bureaucracy, as peninsulares were valued above criollos
> (((bourgeois merchants))) dislike the heavy protectionism of Spanish law, as they feel that the ban on direct commerce between Spanish colonies and French/British/Portuguese/Dutch colonies is making them lose money
> different colonies have different motivations
> e.g. in Colombia, Bolívar wants a modern, liberal Hispanoamérica which he sees impossible under rotten Spanish absolutism
> but e.g. Mexico only joined the open revolt when sjw liberals took over the Spanish government, during the years that we call literally "trienio liberal", as the Colombian elite were enlightened progressives yet Mexicans were reactionaries

All of this, basically, and whatever the Argentinian user explained. In Spain, the Spanish American independence wars are seen as a local civil war - our country was devastated by the Napoleonic war and people were starving, nobody gave a crap about whatever conflicts Spanish American rich people had with other rich people. In fact, the 1820 rebellion that sparked the "trienio liberal" happened because Spanish soldiers refused to sail to quell the Spanish American revolution. Afterwards, not a single soldier was sent from Spain. In Ayacucho, only 1% of the soldiers involved had been born in Spain.

Why couldn't Spain make one livable nation unlike the UK or France?

> Uruguay
> Costa Rica
> half of the USA
> Netherlands
> Chile
> Belgium
u wot m8, also >unlike France

basically

>”These people had no letters nor script, neither knew to write nor read. They communicated using images and paintings and all their history and books were recorded in figures and images, with which they knew about their ancestors and had memory of what they did and what they left recorded for more than a thousand years before the Spanish arrived to this land.”

>”Most of these books and recordings were burnt as other idolatries, but many of them are still hidden. After we came to this land to preach our fate we gathered many young men in our homes and taught them to write, read and sing. As they did well we ensured to teach them grammar and a school in Santiago de Tlatelolco was built for this purpose. This school received the most able young men from all the neighboring towns. ”

>”The Spanish and clergymen who knew about this laughed and mocked, being sure that no one could teach grammar to people so unskillful, but working with them for two or three years they came to understand every art and subject of grammar and speak Latin, both written and spoken and even to write heroic verses. ”

>”As the secular and ecclesiastic clergymen saw this they became frightened of such thing being possible: I was the one who worked with them for the first four years and taught them about Latin and its knowledge. ”
>”As they saw that this project would continue and that they were improving, and they had ability for more, the clerics started to disapprove the school and object about the risks of idolatry this would lead to. ”
- Florentine Codex by Friar Bernardino de Sahagun, Tenth Book, Inform of the author

Tell me one historical Empire that didn't fuck it up.

You can't.

Empires rise and fall, it's just what it is.

In most cases including ours, the reasons are too complex and long to be explained by the casual memes and stereotypes, but that's what most people will do and be content with anyway.

Who's your favorite between holanda and belgas?

Holanda, they gave us a World Cup :3

Ah yes, the British model of colonization of Jamaica, Belize, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Kenia, Zimbawbe, Sudan, etc... truly exemplar.

Meanwhile, in the real world, the first railway in the Spanish Empire was built in Cuba, not in Madrid, and you can travel to any Hispanic-American country and you will find cathedrals, churches, hospitals and schools built by the Spaniards hundreds of years ago. Also, what is Bartolomé de las Casas arguing for the rights of the Native Americans as far as 1537, pushing to a complete stop of their slavery in favour of the encomienda system which was way more humane, a system which was anyway abolished for even more full rights before the Brits abolished slavery.


Your victim mentality is pathetic.

Stop blamming the Spaniards for your own shortcomings, we left Mexico 200 years ago being the richest part of the Empire, everything after that is your fault.

top kek

>we left Mexico 200 years ago being the richest part of the Empire, everything after that is your fault.
You literally couldn't care for your wealthiest colony, who even asked you to send someone to rule, because you were too busing fighting with each other trying to introduce a liberal government and depose whoever was the current king. Jesus Christ, do I have to remind you that you were basically at war even before Napoleon invaded?
Mexicans have ruled for 200 years but we inherited all the problems of your terrible administration. Do you really think all the wealth of the mines was invested to improve the life of most of the people? Do you really think there weren't consequences of the labor explotation of thousands?
Do you think that the independance only happened because of the eternal liberal? Imbecile.

>Do you really think all the wealth of the mines was invested to improve the life of most of the people?
Most of the money of the mines stayed in Mexico. The Spanish empire founded the most towns in history and Mexico was full of roads. You couldn't expect much more at the time

this

Imbecile your whore brown mother for raising an insufferable brownlet brat like you.

On the other hand, I couldn't care less, there have been no Spaniards in power for 200 years, for fucks sake. Do you realize what you are doing? "We inherited all the problems of your terrible administration" What does that even mean you fucking retard, it means nothing, literally nothing, you have been administering yourselves for two fucking CENTURIES, TWO FUCKING CENTURIES, and you still blame us? What the fucking hell is your fucking problem, are you fucking aware of how ridiculous that (not-)argument is?

well said bro

>15c
Spain > portugal > france > germany >uk

>16c
Spain > portugal > france > germany > uk

>17c
Netherland > spain > france > uk > portugal

>18c
France > uk > netherlands > germany > spain

>19c
uk > france > germany > russia > spain

>20c
Germany > france = uk > russia > spain

>now
Germany > uk > france > russia = italy > spain

>“Mexico is a country of inequality. Nowhere perhaps exist a more frightful inequality in the distribution of wealth, of civilization, of cultivation of the soil, and of the population. The Mexican Indians, seen in the mass, present a picture of profound misery. Relegated to the less fertile districts, indolent by nature and even more so by their political situation, they live only for the day. It is almost impossible to find among them men who enjoy a moderate fortune.”
(...)
"Some of these landowners earn more than our German princes."
- Alexander von Humboldt, Political Essay, 1811

>Imbecile your whore brown mother for raising an insufferable brownlet brat like you.
Spaniards are very aggresive creatures.

>there have been no Spaniards in power for 200 years, for fucks sake.
Do YOU realize what are you saying?
Do you really think to change such social inequality is as simple?
Of course we came out like that, no people can be as stupid for fucks sake.

The spaniard is right. Blame PRI, not Spain

>18c, Germany>Spain
>Germans had Africa tier economy and migrated in mass to US
dude

Latin resource extraction strategy of colonization versus Anglo emphasis on building establishment

I think this stems from the fact that Britain was left with a lot of comparatively resource-bereft territory outside of trapping and fur trade, so there wasn't so much of a gold rush mentality

This proved superior in the long term

Feudalism existed everywhere. There was a shit tone of social inequality in the Netherlands or England in the XIX century. The difference is that Mexicans choose to shoot themselves in the feet all the fucking time and was only stable under corrupt oligarchies and dictatorships that ended in revolutions

Do you seriously believe than a peasant that lived in Extremadura had any wealth at the time? Feudalism was a world wide phenomena.

>Latin resource extraction strategy of colonization versus Anglo emphasis on building establishment
British empire lasts 100 less years than the Spanish

Well explained

>Anglo emphasis on building establishment
There is no infrastructure left by the Brittish in America outside of some wood forts. In Mexico you will find schools,monasteries or cathedrals built by the Spaniards. The Brittish empire invested more money in Russia or Argentina than it did in Canada or Australia. The main difference is that an empty islands which has the biggest mineral resources in the planet or a cold country that is barely inhabited and full of oil has way more chances to have a GDP per capita than most countries by default

Vatican needs to pay for the damage.

We left California to you and lost it. If independent it would be 5th world power now.

>The difference is that Mexicans choose to shoot themselves in the feet all the fucking time and was only stable under corrupt oligarchies and dictatorships that ended in revolutions
Says the first world country that had a dictatorship of 40 years.

>Do you seriously believe than a peasant that lived in Extremadura had any wealth at the time?
Humbolt traveled through Spain before being in Mexico. I case you missed it:
>“Mexico is a country of inequality. Nowhere perhaps exist a more frightful inequality in the distribution of wealth, of civilization, of cultivation of the soil, and of the population.

We had lots of luck though, because we got first to three continents.

>There is no infrastructure left by the British in America outside of some wood forts

Spain got lucky because they got to the Americas first and secured the lion's share of the continent which just happened to contain a ton of precious metals. That combined with the natives dying in the millions from European diseases.

>Says the first world country that had a dictatorship of 40 years.
Franco as Porfido was overall decent for the economy. Mexico became a shithole due inestability, war and incompetence. Santa Ana comes to mind.

>We left California to you and lost it. If independent it would be 5th world power now.
Why wasn't it the 5th world's most powerful region when it was under Spanish control then?

>Were 13 tiny colonies really that hard to tossback to the ocean?
You wouldn't know.

If you consider the British empire* to begin with the Jamestown settlement in 1607 and ending with decolonization in the 1940s-60s, then it would be about 350 years.

*I know it wasn't Britain until 1707 before anyone points that out

We were busy being the most powerful country in the world.

Western Sahara was spanish till 1975

Dante used the word "liberale" and in medieval Italian it just meant "generous".

Nobody even attempted to settle California until the second half of the 18th century and it was nothing but a couple of insignificant hamlets inhabited by ranchers before the US annexation.

>Mexico became a shithole due inestability, war and incompetence.
You're right, we should have learned better of you, like that time you guys put aside your differences and defended against Napoleon. =)

It was a region full of resources that Mexicans lost. You expect other people to make you great and when you fuck up blame others. No wonder that you are shit

They trusted the criollos and while they keep the wealth the mestizo population blames Spain.

Por que todos los hilos sobre españa se llenan de posters agresivos hablando ingles roto?

>Franco as Porfido was overall decent for the economy

We pumped Spain full of money starting in the 1950s when we realized that Franco was a useful ally against gommunism.

And yet Franco kept a good relationship with Fidel's Cuba.

[citation needed]

>They basically ran their colonies like mining operations
That's what you tried to do in the American colonies. They weren't allowed to have any industry except for domestic consumption because it would compete with the mother country's manufacturing.

we received almost no Marshall Plan. But we remember how the allies blocked Spain economically in the 40s because of fascist and that was the cause of much hunger and poverty. Never forget.

Meanwhile in the real world far away from the anti-Spanish chicano fantasies...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_miracle

Spain recieved fewer money than Greece from America. The Opus Dei was just good at running the economy

Franco also pursued a misguided attempt at a planned economy in the early years, which he eventually moved away from. This was similar to Pinochet later on in Chile, after an early period of central planning, he hired a bunch of pointhead American economics professors to help re-privatize the economy.

The planned econmy was forced due embargoes. All the resources had to be focused on agriculture and buying grain

The other countries were in no position to do that. More than a century passed between 1492 and Jamestown.
Spain really had a golden age in the 1500 and early 1600. They pretty much never lost a battle on land from the 1520s to the 1640s.

ironically they blame us about everything when creoles (son of Spaniards in america) ruled everything.

then blame them...

German migration into the US began around 1850.

you can relocate your capital. iirc, portugal moved their crown to brazil at one point.

That is absolutely untrue. Diplomatic relations were kept but there was no economic aid from the US to Spain during Franco.

>France > uk > netherlands > germany > spain

1. Germany had no colonies in the 18th century
2. Germany as such was not a state in the 18th century
3. The Spanish empire reached its peak size during the 18th century
4. The Spanish empire spent a lot of money and talent on its colonies, to the point of even creating one of the first international healthcare expedition in history (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balmis_Expedition) only for the ungrateful scumbag sudacas to chimp out a generation later

too bad we were so shit tier for the entire second half of that century

but we were still richer than central Europe, with the majority of the colonies intact

Keep talking faggot

>Castilian Hemisphere
>Portuguese Hemisphere
>Pacific Ocean "the Spanish lake"
>The Spanish Road

My fucking sides, we literally divided the planet between ourselves as good Iberian bros and walked and sailed around the planet like if we were the fucking owners of it. We really had a good run for a couple centuries.

It is fine.

This