Explain to me how Star Trek Voyager is not one of the greatest pieces of television ever produced

Explain to me how Star Trek Voyager is not one of the greatest pieces of television ever produced.

Tuvix was murdered.

>Why?
>this bitch right here
>also Rick 'I'm better the Gene' Berman

There are some good episodes here and there but Voyager isn't on the same tier as TnG or Ds9

>DS9
>Good

Fuck off, people only want it to be good cause it makes Trek into a sort of war show, but never really hits the nail on the head for any sort of gritty space show.

DS9 is what Battlestar Galactica would have looked like had it been more scifi focused and also sucked

That episode weirded me out because I feel like in terms of personality... I am Tuvix. I don't want to be some weirdo though, so it gave me kind of a weird internal crisis.

She is a curse, all she had to do was fuck q to get her crew home and save many many lives and let her crew get home and out of some bs 70 year journey none of them wanted.

I think you, as do most, forget that Star Trek is a franchise that chronicles the lives and events of Starfleet officers. You know, Starfleet - as in the military arm of The Federation? It's nice and warm and fuzzy and all to say they are scientists and explorers, but let's not fuck around here. Star Trek is about war. The characters are soldiers in that war. As much as Gene Roddenberry wanted his show to be a utopia and a paradise centering around humanity curing diseases and poverty through cooperation and friendship, this is still a franchise about soldiers, on war ships, taking orders, fighting hostile forces, in space.

All that said, DS9 was the most "true" to this truth. Ben was a badass. JLP was a hippy diplomat. KJ was a lost pragmatist that had she followed orders (and the prime directive wouldn't have gotten stranded).

Re-watch DS9, season 6, episode 19, "In the Pale Moonlight" and tell me that doesn't sum up what the entire franchise is essentially about.

I'm a huge trek fan and somewhat a voyager apologist... But it objectivity kinda sucks.

If Voyager were the only Star Trek show to exist, it would be astounding.
Unfortunately, it's not, and there are four other Star Trek shows that are better.

>Explain to me how Star Trek Voyager is not one of the greatest pieces of television ever produced.

Because it's worst Trek show. Inconsistent writing, sure it has probably has more good episodes than DS9.... but it has tons of bad episodes. Main characters starting from captain are scitzophrenic or just totally bland. Entire premise where they should be out of everything and in desperate situation is abandoned in favor of returning to status quo at end of every episode.

>You know, Starfleet - as in the military arm of The Federation?

The show is blatantly not militarized. They have military and naval structure because they are an organization that needs some sort of formal hierarchy to function, just like how every job ever has a boss, who answers to a boss, and a boss above him.

Sure they have military and defensive capabilities, but they are very much multi purpose vessels designed to do many things. They are not equipped for war, and that's why they had to start making shit for war: Defiant is one of them, and even Voyager had to make a custom beefy shuttle craft that could withstand getting shit on by opponents. Even the plot of Into Darkness revolves around Star Fleet needing to make less science, more boom boom type ships.

But Star Trek has always been a show about politics first - politics being on the brink of war. Small conflicts break out, but they are resolved through intimate dialogue and peace brokering.

Star Fleet realized after the Dominion war they needed to beef their shit up, and actually started a formal military. Enterprise had some military personnel on board, but still, once again, science.

But Star Fleet can just cut all the science shit and built equally capable ships in a smaller package (Defiant) or ships of equal size that have devastating weapons capabilities (Prometheus Class, pic)

I'd be totally down to watch a fully militarized Star Trek show. As in, tactical strikes on key targets during a conflict, some espionage, some politics to try and resolve it before it gets to nuking planets - Would be good. They'll never make it.

>DS9
>just about grit and the dominion war
Shit post somewhere else.

They might have to if they want the overall story arcs in place to move forward. Let's pretend for 5 seconds like they won't reboot and reimage Spock and Kirk shit until the day our grandchildren die:
1) the Maquis problem was never entirely resolved; sure the Dominion killed off lota of colonies, but this heavy handedness would garner more support for the cause than anything. Not to mention, the second a Dominion assault began on Federation citizens (or ex-, depending on your interpretation of Maquis citizenship), the Federation was duty bound to rescue, aid, and support them as they were a "distressed people". The enemy of my enemy is my friend type alliance. More material to move forward with.
2) Species 8472. Sure, Janeway and "Boothby" came to an accord. But that was just one ship and one colony. All of 8472 is aware of the nanoprobe weapons developed by Starfleet and their Borg sympathizing tactical alliance during the incursion. Two teams playing nice won't stop two nations, two governments, or two peoples from coming to blows.
3) The Voth. Distant Origin theory got out. The Voth can travel at near transwarp. They get to the alpha quandrant. More material.

4) Dominion splinter groups and/or Jem Hadar pledging to finish what the founders started.
5) Borg Remnants.
6) More Breen. Beta quadrant relatively untraversed.
7) More time travel stuff. Don't care for it myself, but its a staple of the franchise. Would love to see it in the context of a Divided Federation of Planets and crumbling of the Alpha Quadrant alliances.
8) Romulans. The Tal Shiar has been left unchecked for too long. Aside from a Tuvan Syndrome assassination attempt gone wrong, we haven't seen them up to much.
9) Section 31. So much this. So so so so so much material possible moving forward.
10) A new antagonistic race is needed. Klingon skirmishes is overdone. Dominion needs to regroup. Borg are crippled. 8472 is who knows what the fuck. Breen are decimated. Romulans are hiding. I want something new and push the envelope. A franchise defining, all encompassing, "this could be the end of all life as we know it" mortal enemy. I wrote a fanfic in high school about a space borne parasite that consumes carbon and silicon based matter. Completely mindless. Can't be bartered with. Can't be reasoned with. Just an endless, relentless gnawing away at all resources on all sides.

I'm sick to death of remakes and reboots and reimages and prequels and sequels. Just move forward. Have Janeway in the pilot episode seeing off a new crew how Picard was in DS9. Throw in some cameos, sure, but for the love of God, NEW material!

where can ī watch it online 16:9 720p?

If the shuttle could go in quantum slip space safely, then why didn't they shuttle everyone home?

Unsympathetic characters. Shitty acting, even for Star Trek. Terrible storylines.

16:9?

This is some old-timey shit you are trying to watch. Do you want leave it to beaver in IMAX after that ?

Honestly out of all you listed, the Maquis is the one I'd prefer to see go forward at full speed

>Dominion fucked up federation a bit
>A number of other colonies believe the Federation can't protect them any longer
>Maquis movement sparks a new movement of individual planets and colonies declaring themselves sovereign planets, and entering into an alliance with each other
>Federation is seen as the enemy
>Protects their space with unrelenting aggressive force
>Not found to any current subspace weapons treaties and can use cloaking technology because fuck treaties they don't apply to us

Now just add in the whole thing led by a old federation weapons designer or some shit and bam, you have a central conflict that is very human, but all the other shit you have listed has external stress that prevents the federation from just coming in full force and repatriating everyone back into the Federation by force

They could have a referendums around the Federation with planets wanting to leave and Section 31 offing politicians and what not.

There's a scene in an episode of Voyager, "Acceptable Risk" iirc, after the crew starts getting regular mail from the Alpha Quadrant where Chakotay tells B'Elana that the Maquis got wiped out by a Dominion offensive and he learned all this third hand via a letter. The level of disconnect was upsetting for me as an audience member. Makes me think Chakotay would be an excellent supreme leader of a Maquis 2.0; he's always been a man of two worlds - the old traditional ways of his tribe and the new ways of the technological world, and being Starfleet/Maquis. It always felt to me like he was teeter tottering back and forth between the two, and a gigantic on screen slaughter would be enough to finally make him go all in on a Maquis crusade. Something like a Species 8472 pearl harbour style attack on Maquis rebuilding efforts.

They could even incorporate an 8472 turncoat as the "novelty" character. Voyager had the EMH Doctor, TNG had Data, always a progressive character to push the limits of humanity and "human" rights. This time, a trans-human. An 8472 that wants to become human full time, no serum or training camp life.

I'd like a side-antagonist Cabal of Section 31, Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order members trying to steer events. A "New" Federation.

>where can ī watch it online 16:9 720p?

Early seasons were shot in 4:3 and far more popular TNG barely made it's effects remastering costs back on blue ray. Not going to happen.

They could do anything. It's the one thing we don't really see in Star Trek that much. We are always up against some alien foe, or in the odd episode / movies, maybe one guy specific guy or one crew...

But a full fledged political uprising that has already successfully torn the Federation in half - that is good TV. Add in a new alien bad dude race applying pressure on the opposite end, requiring dat political expertise to secure assistance, separatists successfully capturing a federation ship and holding the crew hostage. Who knows, I'm not the writer. Just pump that shit out and find new ways to take the Federation to fracture the federation even more and the flagship crew we are following is trying to duct tape the entire shit back together before it entirely collapses.

Just imagine what 17 colonies of humans and some aliens just up and leaving the Federation would do. Space Brexit.

I'm totally down for an 8472 side plot, especially since depending on who gets him, means there is the potential for weapons tech to be present. Shit is more OP than the photonic cannon.

It seemed the most plausible to me because they travel in fluidic space, which has no fixed counter-point in our space time. So to them, they cross the proverbial fluidic space street and to us they went from the ass end of the Delta Quandrant to Mars in a matter of minutes.

I'd like to see more Hirogen and Voth and Viidians, but in all likelihood, they're still chilling in the Delta Quadrant. It would be nice to see a race or government so moved by their respective encounter with the Voyager that they seek out the Federation. That would be neat.

We could always just have a threat from an entirely different galaxy show up. Not to go all Stargate Atlantis, but the thought of an alien race jumping over to our galaxy because it's ripe for the taking sounds juicy. There are a few species that have the tech that would allow for intergalactic travel - I imagine the Borg would easily be capable of such journeys but they have zero reason to.

Assuming we're not bound by TOS's bullshit galactic barrier nonsense - but even then I imagine a Quantum Slipstream Drive would just pass right through it?

Because it's bad

Battlestar is one of the worst shows I've ever seen. That shit is un fucking watchable

Star Trek is not about war.

>Literally helping the borg destroy a species that could completely and easily eradicate the borg
Just let species 8472 destroy the borg considering she had a way to kill them later

This thread sums up my reasoning for not giving a shit about DS9 or Voyager. I'll be happy with rewatching TNG over and over again because that's the best version of Star Trek that ever was and, from the looks of things, ever will be.

>Star Trek: Technobabble Deus Ex Machina

>All these honestly great starting off points for militarized Star Trek shows
>I'm just sitting here, wishing they'd make a show where the ship is basically a mobile museum exhibit, going around Federation space, gathering new pieces, sharing cultural elements and philosophy, while everything war related is going on in the background instead of front and centre.

Shouldn't you be busy signing an online petition for another season of Firefly or something?

Realized I quoted the last post instead of op. TNG gets it right. Voyager goes way over the line.

Because it was sandwiched between the two greatest Star Trek series, TNG and DS9. Voyager suffered from comparisons.

VOY started after DS9 dude

No, it didn't

not hard to check friend

Yes, it did.

Both Voyager and B5-rip off were sandwitched between superior Treks. TNG and ENT.

Is ENT any good? why cancelled?

>Ent

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA

It's better than Voyager.

>yfw Janeway is solely responsible for Third Wave Feminism

>yfw everything wrong on our college campuses could have been fixed if Kate Mulgrew wasn't autistic for Star Trek

>only the doctor sided with Tuvix
>everyone else on VOY is evil

>Is ENT any good?

Fourth season is probably best individual season in any Trek show. First two seasons are rather mediocre. With few really good episodes.

>why cancelled?

Wasn't marketed as Trek at first, added Star Trek to tittle at third season. Bad main plot... insanely complicated time travel stuff manipulated from future, that kinda killed the prequel part, where it doesn't deliver stuff like early contacts with Klingons, Romulans and other usual suspects.

Once it got good, most interest from both fans and general public had already died out. It's sort of mixed bag between old time tv-shows like old Treks where every episode returns to status quo at credits, with some more modern long running main plot elements. It becomes ongoing plot show on third season, but it reverts into shorter few episodes per story arc based show in 4th, that is basically good middleground between old and new style storytelling.

thanks user.

fucking depressing.

For me the biggest problem with DS9 is probably comparing it with B5 that it ripped off it's premise almost 1:1.

When comparing it with other Treks it has tons of really shitty episodes... like all mirror universe stuff, most individual episodes in DS9 mediocre and when it comes to good episodes there isn't that many and most of those aren't than good episodes of TOS, TNG, ENT and even VOY. Far less high concept scifi than in other Treks. The bad episodes aren't as bad as bad episodes of other Treks.

>like all mirror universe stuff
The first three are good, it's only the last two which were a waste of time.

So why didn't Janeway just set timed explosives to blow up the Caretaker Array and use its power to get Voyager home instead of destroying it from the outside and stranding her crew in the Delta Quadrant?

yeah it just seemed cheep. they should have boldly gone forward, instead of trying to rehash 1 ship 1 crew

When the Doctor found a way to cure lizardism, why didn't Janeway just transwarp the crew home?

If it was too dangerous to transwarp the whole crew, at least send one volunteer back to Earth to be like
>"Hey, Starfleet, what up? The USS Voyager is over in the Delta Quadrant rn, fyi. Btw, here's some flawed transwarp technology, maybe you can get it to work better."
and then have them come back so the Doctor can cure them.

The thing with prequel part. 4th season hinted at lot of things. It started setting up pieces for Romulan War for 5th season, the thing that united Federation by forcing Humans, Vulcans, Andorians and Tellarites to cooperate against common enemy.

Then it was cancelled, finale basically is Riker on holodeck dealing with his own problems and seeking inspiration from birth of fedration. Four years later when it comes to previous episode of ENT, now we have a speech about unity, struggle, striving for better things and have Federation.

That would have kinda cancelled the show.

>Yeah I know we have a military structure and all our terminology is based on the military, and we're all armed with deadly weapons and trained to use them, and yes, if someone declares war against The Federation we'd be the ones sent to fight it, and we're under the control of the Federation government, and we and they have the power to draft people into mandatory service if there's an emergency...

>BUT WE AREN'T A MILITARY
>Because we explore places too
>See, that proves we're not a military

>One of the most popular and successful sci-fi series in recent history is unwatchable

Here is your (You) faggot.

>most popular and successful
The Big Bang Theory is even more popular and successful. Let's not go down this road user.

>Mine's bigger
What did he mean by this?

His god cock is bigger.

his spirit animal was a whale

It's literally the size of his index finger.

And how big is his index finger?

Just about average.

the lives of starfleet officers are not interesting, i couldnt pay the worst writers in the world with blowjobs to write more bland garbage if i tried

>yfw the cast was absolutely abused by the producers

>Rick Berman gets angry at Garrett Wang
>decides to punish him by refusing to give Harry Kim any focus or development
>nobody points out that he's actually punishing the audience by giving us intentionally shitty characters
What is it with Ricks?

implying they wont remaster them all in 20-30 years when cell phones can do the same job and it will look like shit due to context.

>big bang theory
>A sci Fi series
?????????????????

but his god finger is bigger

That wasn't what I said. Try reading it again user.

Isn't their level of technology more advanced than the real world?

>Oh no, our robot has developed emergent artificial intelligence!
>Ha ha ha ha ha!
>It's become obsessed with giving out wedgies!
>Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
>This is just like high school all over again!
>Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

You said Big Bang Theory is an even more popular and successful sci-fi series.

No, he is saying that popularity does not equal quality because the Big Bang Theory is popular, but is complete shit.

still better than gay sisko

>q starts war over wanting to race mix with inferior races.
>janeway makes him see the error of his ways.

Big Bang Theory is popular and quality version of the genre it exists in (fucking laugh track sitcoms). Just cause I didn't like Friends and preferred Fraiser doesn't make Friends any worse than it really is.

It's an utter stupid thing to try and compare it to, like saying "I don't like Football and its popular therefore M&Ms aren't a good candy." - especially since BSG is not just popular but also critically acclaimed.

>quality version of the genre it exists in (fucking laugh track sitcoms)
No, Seinfeld is a quality version of a laugh track sitcom. Big Bang Theory is just trash.

He wasn't even comparing the shows, he was talking about your shitty rationale. Something being popular or successful is not an inherent indicator of quality. Cease your autism, he made a very simple point and you're still not picking up on it.

Computers and software are only bit of cost here. Re-mastering and making new effects takes workhours. Sure. Probably AI can do it in decade or three.

what? the TNG remastering was a masterpiece. how has it not made money?
how has it not been pushed to all TV stations as the new copies to broadcast?

are they showing TNG on TV these days? I know the BBC does. are they not showing the remastered copies?

Voyager wasn't much, but it was still miles ahead of claustrophobic Deep Shit 9.

>what? the TNG remastering was a masterpiece. how has it not made money?

Not exactly free to re-make all effects. TNG was made with chromakey, physical models and some CGI. Almost all effects had to be redone with CGI. It takes workhours, workers ain't free. TV-channels running re-runs don't care that much about effects and end users aside from most hardcore fans might be fine with DVD release and don't bother to buy it as BR-hue disks. TOS had it much easier to resell as improvement in effects was even bigger as was shows classic status.

DS9 and VOY probably at least yet wouldn't be profitable to re-release.

Does he still have any hold on the series? I'll laugh my ass off if he's a producer for Discovery.