When did you realize all the new trendy 'idm' producers like Arca and OPN don't really hold a candle to the idm giants...

when did you realize all the new trendy 'idm' producers like Arca and OPN don't really hold a candle to the idm giants of the 90's?

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>Arca and OPN
>IDM

Just because its not played at Ultra Music Fest doesn't make it 'IDM'

what the fuck did you think the quotes meant?

I didn't because IDM is a useless descriptor. None of the "idm giants of the 90's" sounded similar and neither do Arca or OPN.

OPN and Arca aren't trendy, they are trendsetters. Also, OPN isn't IDM in any sense of the term, you moron.

yeah, thank you

all the new trendy 'idm' stuff that p4k, /r/indieheads etc. praises sounds super overproduced and contrived and is boring as hell. opn's old ambient stuff is good and some flylo stuff is good but yeah, the 90s warp records stuff was on a completely different level.

>trendsetters
because they themselves happen to be trendy

instantly. because it's obvious

disputing the peculiar terms used does nothing to address the point being made. Regardless of whatever you describe them as I'm saying one is better than the other.

>music produced electronically
>overproduced
How? You mean to say the mix is too busy or what?

But the point I'm making is that all these artists don't really have a whole lot in common, so why compare them?

>I'm saying one is better than the other.
I don't disagree, nor do I give a shit. Your opinion isn't unpopular or nuanced to any extent, and your terminology makes you seem you don't know what you're talking about.

maybe overproduced isn't the right term. From what I've listened to from Nicholas Jaar, James Blake, a lot of brainfeeder people including Flying Lotus, OPN's newer stuff, etc. it's just way too clean and sterile sounding and there's so many random layers that add nothing to the songs and are there just to fill out the frequency range.

Pretty much every element of aphex twin's music for example adds to the song and drives it forward. And it generally just sounds more natural and human.

Maybe it's just preference but I cannot get into newer electronic stuff at all

also the 90s stuff used older 'vintage' synths and the newer stuff mostly uses modern synths so that def contributes to the feeling of the songs

OPN's newer stuff gives me a "drumless IDM" vibe sometimes. Like making a whole IDM track then removing all drums and percussion, so the beat is more implied.

But yeah he's not really IDM (except maybe the dance songs he produced or remixed for people like DJ Earl and Four Tet, which I enjoy a lot).

RDJ is more minimalist than them but if you think those are "random layers" you just have shit taste. (With the possible exception of a few newcomers like Arca and Ash Koosha who are more masturbatory - literally, in Arca's case.)

You probably don't even like IDM; just ambient or progressive techno.

define the idm sound

opn is just shitty new age for people who were never subjected to the torture of listening to actual new age in their life

Sounds like mostly a preference. I'll grant you the point about random layers which add nothing, Richard Devine's music suffers from this a lot and it's probably a side-effect of the rapid development in DAWs since the 90s. It's simply a hell of a lot easier to create huge multitrack projects now.

drukQs is a shit album

the classic idm guys were too indebted to 90s pop culture while also being influenced by 60s and 70s cliches and culture (show themes, film scores, etc.) whereas the current wave of electronic experimentalists are too indebted to contemporary pop culture while also riding the 80s revivalism trend

basically hope for the 80s revivalism trend to die out and 90s revivalism to happen if you want stuff similar to rdj and luke vibert to become big again

youtube.com/watch?v=ihuBe2DfNy0
youtube.com/watch?v=mgR00NcIwHc

> You probably don't even like IDM

I like aphex twin, boc, autechre, squarepusher etc. which is definitely idm

and masturbatory is a perfect word to describe the modern people I listed. if you think something like this youtube.com/watch?v=rIrdTi7Bzt8 is musically interesting or engaging than I'd argue you have shit taste

and RDJ's definitely not more minimalist than something like that. this is filled with layers but it's not just meandering bullshit youtube.com/watch?v=Mo3StFtLIlM

>being this much of a plebeian that you don't realize Drukqs is his best album

Drukqs (Warp, 2001) is a double-disc tour de force that spans all of James' stages, from the Selected Ambient music (Jynweythek Ylow, Omgyjya Switch 7) to his creative art of the beat (Ziggomatic V17, Taking Control).
Ostensibly inspired by Erik Satie and John Cage, the album includes computer-controlled piano sonatas.
No track stands out and the reason is that all tracks are played in a rather mainstream manner and unusual ideas have been streamlined to produce easier-sounding music.
His stature as an innovator has greatly diminished over the years and this album proves that there is little more than hype to sustain his charisma. His ventures into trip-hop (Orban Eq Trx 4) or jungle (54 Cymru Beats) pale compared with dance-music intellectuals like Spring Heel Jack or Squarepusher. James invests quite a bit in piano-based avant-classical compositions, but new-age music has been more successful in advancing Satie's century-old intuitions.
This album is at the same time too much and too little: it tries to diversify in so many different directions, but ultimately it offers little of substance in each of the different directions. It is not a surprise that so many reviews of this album dealt with the song titles rather than with the music.

>sending me a wikipedia article
Yeah I'll pass, you know just because critics didnt love doesnt mean its shit right?

>attacking the source of the criticism rather than the criticism itself
Plebeian.

>quoting a living italian meme
Contrarian.

Very cool and unique opinion that mirrors your personality, my friend. :^)

>not thinking Scaruffi is right ~80% of the time
>still not addressing the actual criticism

>Omgyjya Switch 7
>ambient music
Did this hack even listen to the album?

don't bother anti scaruffi fags can't articulate anything

Maybe you should post your own criticism first and not be a complete drone devoid of own opinions and a personality and you'll be taken more seriously.

>still not addressing the actual criticism
What criticism? That "no tracks stand out"? That's all he says throughout his entire review. He released some of his most diverse, interesting, and well produced material in his entire career. All Scaruffi ever does is compare completely unrelated artists to one another (how the hell does a jungle artist relate to an IDM artist?). He took too many directions? He was too minimal and too diverse? What sort of criticism is that? How do these tracks not stand out? Did he even listen to the album in its entirety?
youtube.com/watch?v=XYrQC-jWMFM
youtube.com/watch?v=2FMccwa-0vA
youtube.com/watch?v=926fiS2kvt8

Why? What difference does it make whether I typed it out with my own words vs. the words of a reviewer? You're still avoiding the criticism.

>What criticism? That "no tracks stand out"? That's all he says throughout his entire review.
>and the reason is that all tracks are played in a rather mainstream manner and unusual ideas have been streamlined to produce easier-sounding music.
Improve your reading comprehension.
He's completely right when he compares him to Cage and Satie. The prepared piano tracks are obviously a weak Cage imitation and there's one track on there (I forget the name) that literally sounds like paint-by-numbers Satie.

How do those tracks stand out? What's good about them?

It's not criticism. It's not a real argument. It's not your opinion therefore fuck you. I don't care about the album and what you or anybody says, I'm just calling you out because you're a little pussy incapable of thinking for yourself.

OPN just sort of comes off as a lesser version of Boards of Canada. Should I give him a second chance?

Not even close

>It's not criticism. It's not a real argument.
Why not?
>I don't care about the album and what you or anybody says, I'm just calling you out because you're a little pussy incapable of thinking for yourself.
I'm sure this sounded like much more of a savage put-down in your head so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

You're avoiding my criticism. Learn to speak your own mind if you want to be taken seriously.

OPN is way more talented and innovative than BoC, and makes better music, IMO. But it's a different genre entirely.

Listen to Eccojams, Replica, R+7, or Garden of Delete from start to finish.

>drukQs is a shit album
You take that back.

>He's completely right when he compares him to Cage and Satie
I think you're really the one that needs to improve your reading comprehension. I was obviously referring to his comparison of Spring Heel Jack (an overrated jungle group that no fans of jungle are into). His piano tracks are all you care to criticize, I'm not even crazy about them myself. But his other tracks are just absolutely remarkable and truly one of the pinnacles of electronic music in the past 2 decades. They're each filled with such detail and so many layers that it's impossible to relisten to a track without experiencing something new. Each track sounds just completely different from the last, and each track changes so much throughout its entirety. I really don't see how these tracks wouldn't stand out to you.

anyone else hate the term IDM?

>You're avoiding my criticism.
What "criticism"?

kettel and clark are the best two imo. but the current generation still can improve, thats the thing. i dont think any of em are at their peak yet.

everyone hates it lol

Not the same user, but those tracks are honestly some of the most nuanced of RDJ's career.
What makes them so good is that they manage to be incredibly musically dense (more so than anything he had previously released) but don't sacrifice any cohesion or dynamics. There's a lot of wanky tracker music out there but the tracks on Drukqs build up musical themes that actually go somewhere, as opposed to just being an exercise in beat-making.
Also Scaruffi's comment on the tracks playing out in a "streamlined" and "mainstream" manner makes no sense considering Drukqs houses his most dense and un-commercial material. RDJ Album seems super basic by comparison.

but Clark just put out Death Peak

90s "idem" is mostly technical wank without any substance otherwise, so never

Pleb, it foretold the modern dystopia.

Replica is the only good album from the ones you listed.

>The warm, intense, passionate Syro is the opposite of the amateurish, detached, slacker Drukqs.
what did he mean by this

>trendsetters

collecting some (you)s today anono?

It was at the same time disappointing and great, but if he goes for a Flame Rave type of thing on this album i'm all wet.

This user gets it. If any user expresses interest in any artist from the IDM clique you can tell right away that they're either posers or are new to bleeps.

its great to hear that you have a superiority complex about liking electronic music.

That he has no idea what he's talking about