Pascal's Wager states that it's smarter to bet that there is a God because if you are wrong, the consequences are not as dire as having incorrectly bet that there is no God.
Math has conclusively proven that God exists, so why do you foolishly choose disbelief?
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>math
you haven't proven he exists, just tried to blackmail people with the thought of hell
>tl;dr
checkmate
So, now you're using math and logic to "prove" your magical sky-wizard exists?? That's not how it works
That's not how any of this works
how does blackmail lead one to believe something to be true? if all that is required a hollow and meaningless statement of faith, then the proposed god is stupid and ridiculous
>Math has conclusively proven that God exists
elaborate
pascal's wager proves he was a pussy ass bitch
cmon son try something better next thread
Come on OP you can do better than this
Please post some of that proof...
I think it makes more sense to compare it to alternative energy.
What if climate change is a hoax, and we end up making the world a better place for nothing?
What if god isn't real, and we live our lives as best we can, love and help each other, and don't cheat on our wives and shit all for nothing?
But eh, I believe in higher powers and lower powers and everything in between and nothing at all because mathematically they all 100% exist as well as don't. Organized religion is dumb, religion as philosophy to help guide yourself to understanding the nature of your consciousness, reality, and the universe is ingrained into our brains from evolution to be a useful tool.
So what are the odds you bet on the right god? Also.. wouldn't a god (any god) know when a person believes "just to be sure"?
There's some 3000 different deities mankind has come up with. So if we go for that, then there's 3001 options you to bet on. If you go by the odds, shouldn't you bet on a deity that has most loose requirements to get in a heaven or whatever waits in afterlife, than risk getting punished? If I present to you a belief that I just made up by an inspiration of ever spinning meatball deity that includes a belief that no-matter what you do, you will not get punished in afterlife. Wouldn't your reasoning for the "safest bet" compel you to believe in my god?
Pascal's wager states that the only two possibilities are Christianity and atheism. Pascal was lying
I believe there is a god but I do not believe they are benevolent or omnipotent. I simply believe they create to observe and nothing more
how did you come to this conclusion?
No benevelont God would allow some of the things that happen in this world(in my opinion) and omnipotence is impossible, it's a paradox
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how did you determine there is even A god?
But I do believe it took something with immense power to start the universe and that's what I believe God is
OP is so full of shit his teeth are brown.
how did you determine there wasn't some non-God reason for the start of the universe?
how do you know the universe required a start?
So yeah I think it took an immensely powerful being to create the universe and since then he's just been watching
OP is so full of shit I can smell it from here
>Math proves the God exists.
Prove math exists, faggot.
Athiests: 1 Christians: 0
"when in doubt, always bet on the most popular choice"
why I ask these questions is I don't see there being any EVIDENCE for these beliefs.
I don't know what happened. God or something akin to it could exist. They could not.
People need to be more comfortable with I dont know
Fuck it instead of my explanation I'm just going to believe in the writings of H.P Lovecraft, everything that exists,exists In the dreams of azathoth the blind idiot god
Pascal's Wager presumes a simple binary qustion of God or Not God and doesn't account for the fact that there are many other gods people believe in, many of which claim to be the only one and will punish those who choose incorrectly.
Pascal's Wager should instead be called Pascal's Horse Race, because if you choose the wrong one, you lose.
This is Sup Forums, there is no God here.
I wasn't trying to be a prick, but I just ask the basic rationalist question:
What do you believe and why do you think you believe it to be true?
Because the chance that the god that might exist is the one from your religion is astronomically small.
even pokemon has god. what make you guys think real world doesnt has god?
All I know is every atheist I've ever met has been a fat miserable piece of shit. It tells me everything I need to know about a person who has no kind of moral compass or grounding agent in their lives.
>Not factoring every other religion into that wager
To honestly believe that horse shit, you've got to be retarded. You can do better, OP.
God or no God, whatever. If you need the threat of punishment or the bribe of a reward to be a good person, then you are not a good person. Of course being on Sup Forums probably doesn't make me a good person, so fuck me.
You can call that "God" if you want to, but that's not what anyone understands God to mean. A power that got the ball rolling then peaced out forever is not inconsistent with atheism, because it doesn't have any of the attributes religions ascribe to their Gods. When people like you say they believe in a God instead of just calling yourself atheist, it lends power to the religious idiots because it hides our numbers. Stop being a pussy and call yourself what you are.
pokemon and everything in its universe is literally made up dude
>Pascal's Wager should instead be called Pascal's Horse Race, because if you choose the wrong one, you lose.
That would be a crowded horse race, considering the infinite number of horses competing.
I get you weren't trying to be nasty but I just believe it because I do think they must have been something to start the universe, all of this couldn't have just come from nothing and I don't believe that any of the depictions of gods I've read about are true they are usually described as benevelont which clearly isn't true and omnipotent which is actually impossible to me it makes sense for it to just be a very powerful being who watches over the universe and isn't involved
fact.
although if you think about it, by choosing atheism you're guaranteed to piss off whatever god does exist. we know the christian god gets all fire and brimstone if you don't believe in him, even if you don't back another horse.
so really we should just find the god that has the scariest lose scenario and go with them.
is being fat immoral? I know its stupid due to health consequences but at best its some form of self-harm or suicide.
I guess you could make the argument from a drain on medical resources, causing increased insurance rates for healthy people who don't get fat.
Given the mind-boggling number of possible gods, it's obviously best to remain uncommitted and minimize the wrath of the correct one.
I don't believe in free will. There's only complete randomness and determinism, and I'm not too sure about the randomness. That makes the question of whether or not there is a "god", completely meaningless, regardless of the answer.
I'm in decent shape, make 90k, and have a wife with a six pack and D cups. I'm also happy and not fucking dumb, so I accept the fact that there is no God. So fuck you.
We should all just believe in the pantheon of gods created by Lovecraft
Well how many of those God's are just? It would be just to forgive a person for following the religion they were born into without proving you are the God to follow wouldn't it?
well it could have all come from nothing.
i just think accepting a proposition for no good reason could lead to other decisions you could get swindled over.
Its highly doubtful a belief in a god that you suggest would lead to any real bad consequences, but it just doesn't seem to be a good idea.
But yet, you do not explain why Niggers tongue my anus.
Yes there is... - Satan -
And it's misleading as fuck. A creation force that made shit then did nothing else is not inconsistent with atheism. That's not a God.
Lol, you could apply Pascal's wager to any deity with punishment for disobedience and come to a similar conclusion try again faggot.
wow you were there when that happens? long time no see
The god I propose exists just makes the most sense to me, I know I could be wrong but it's just what I think is right just like every other religion who have no proof of their good but believe in them anyway
Oh yeah, I was there.
atheism is just a non belief in proposed gods due to no convincing evidence.
not claiming there are no gods. there very well maybe.
atheism doesn't really make claims, it just disbelieves when people say there are gods or a god.
Because we have no idea whether or not the one god you choose to believe in as a result of the wager is the right one. Mathematically, with that info in mind, it is safer not to choose one god than it is to stay neutral and choose none.
Pascal was too heavily Christianized to think such things.
heres a refutation to pascals wager: youtube.com
show me the proof then.
You're just an atheist who is scared of the label. Nut up.
And you're just a twat who thinks he's a big man on the internet. Fuck off
what if the consequences of choosing the wrong god are worse than choosing none?
maths is funny shit
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Bentvelsen's wager is that if there is an almighty god he does not care about what name you call him as long as you follow the golden rule.
>Thou shalt not covet
Atheism usually doesn't make claims saying gods don't exist. That usually could be described as anti-theism.
Gods could exist, it just doesn't make sense to believe in something intangible.
If Gods were even somewhere close to as reliable in fantasy worlds where clerics could directly pray for healing or supernatural effects, the actual notion of atheism or anti-theism would be silly.
sheep
Well, there's atheism the religion, held by the "debate me" crowd on the internet and some real life fags. That type definitely makes claims, but they're just the loud minority.
And then there's atheism the label, used by theists as a slur against everyone who doesn't believe in their fantasies. This is all the sane normal people, and they never use that label themselves.
Pascal can go fuck himself
that's not accurate. besides people have differing ideas of what every damn word means.
try having a convo with someone about their terms instead of making claims about what they believe.
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We need people like you to admit what you are so that the religious imbeciles see the strength of our numbers. Not gonna fuck off until people who don't believe in interactive dieties all call ourselves what the world knows we are. ATHEIST
What do you think God would rather hear, if he truly did exist, before bestowing judgement upon a departed? That one had at the very last moment of life, cashed in their chips and tried to swindle an eternity of happiness in their last breath by prasing Him? Or honesty from one that saw no proof of His existence, but lived a life in service of human solidarity?
For those who ain't smart: if He exists, God dont want no huxters. He just wants good people.
well, that's just too broad of a statement. i don't think people are stupid or get all butthurt over theists, but I do consider myself an atheist.
but labels largely suck because of what you pointed out. people cannot have a consistent measure of most words. makes dialogues really hard.
pascal is dead, he cant fuck himself. your argument is invalid
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Is this kind of asinine straw man really all theists can come up with to counter criticism of their bullshit beliefs?
Atheism is not a religion, it's the lack of belief in gods. A (without) theism (belief in gods). Agnostics are atheists. Anti- theists are atheists. They don't affirmatively believe in Gods.
But we can see his point? I mean words are largely subjective to most people. We have to constantly define terms to get anywhere.
Getting stuck to a word just seems worthless.
Even in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve ate. God told them they could eat of any plant or tree, except for the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Even before the Fall, life only existed through killing other life.
Whatever intelligence, if any, is responsible for the creation of this world, it is diseased. This world with its unavoidable contests for domination and survival, and therefore unavoidable suffering is either an extremely unfortunate, random occurrence, or it is a manifestation of a bitter, jealous, fearful, greedy, ego-driven, cruel, lustful and perverse mind.
Atheism is absolutely a form of religion, at least in the sense as Communism is a form of religion. They may not believe in gods, but they adopt their own versions of all the other basic concepts, including fanaticism, rituals, prosletyzation, scorning the unbelievers, and so on.
Now, most people labeled as atheists just don't believe in the theist crap. But the hardcore fanatics are basically like Satanists are to Christianity.
It's the least subjective English word to describe lack of belief in gods. Secular, humanist, agnostic, skeptic, etc. are all less widely understood. Strength in numbers requires a label that is known.
Atheist, here. I sincerely believe that if you get the right amount of energy together and explode it according to some very, very precisely-defined rules, it will eventually become self-aware and start worshiping thousands of different Gods it has imagined.
Do not throw pearls to jews.
LOL no. Based on the available evidence, any theism is insanely radical. Atheism is not a religion, it's not even a belief. It's the overwhelmingly most probable outcome when applying reason to the known facts.
Mathematically speaking, you will hit an apex in which creation has no source, therefore the only logical answer is divine intervention. Wether it be the Christian god, another god, or some divine alien or some shit.
To believe that something comes from nothing is illogical and ignorant.
No. Why would you bet on the most popular one, if other options give you less risk and even greater reward? How about a god of tits and wine with 100 virgins and zero chance of going hell? Why wouldn't you bet on that one instead of some with rules and possibility of eternal torment?
>the fact that there is no God
but thats, like, your opinion, man
He gets it.
Did you stop reading before the first comma?
You're an idiot. Truth has nothing to do with BELIEF. Read Hoffer some time. And just as some Godfags are True Believers, so are some Athiests (with a capital A).
Normal folks don't really care.
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Coz it's the most honest answer.
Eat shit, millions of flies can't be wrong.
90% of those 3000s deities are to be discredited lack to written events and documented times.
If any religion is true it falls between Christianity or some Asian religion.
>Pascal's Wager
Pascal's Wager doesn't work because there are many religions. Bye.
Omnipotence is possible by in itself, that's the point. It's literally "just because".
If there is a God and he's good and all-knowing, he'll understand why I don't believe and will forgive my lack of faith. I doubt me going to church and faking belief will not increase my odds.
No, my opinion is that religion sucks. My conclusion that it is untrue is from the application of reason to evidence. No opinion necessary. The subjective opinion you can disagree with, the conclusion you can't because it's objective.
You're moving the problem over a step.
>the universe had to come from somewhere, therefore god
>so where did the god come from?
>oh well science and logic don't apply to the god of course god didn't need to be created
What's stopping me from then arguing the universe didn't need to be created?
Islam made some impressive evidence for itself when Allah allowed 19 amateurs to bring down 3 skyscrapers with 2 planes. And you know Allah wanted us to know He was responsible, because he preserved Mohammad Atta's passport, perfectly undamaged, atop a pile of ash from the collapsed tower.
Those are miracles that put anything in the Bible to shame.
One object, plus one object, equals two objects. Faggot.
The term one is subjective but could be replaced with any term and still be math.
In case you don't know, this post is bait. When The Childlike Empress is the image being posted with some "checkmate atheists" argument OP is just fucking with you. It's like how Time Machine Modulus gets posted in cringe threads on Sup Forums, the Ash cosplay child gets posted on /vp/, and the furry pouring wine gets posted here.
"If any story is true, it falls between Lord Of The Rings and Harry Potter, because they're written, instead of being passed on by word of mouth."
That's literally your argument. user, please. I need my sides.