Some when is your gender a choice if being gay isn't?

Some when is your gender a choice if being gay isn't?

Other urls found in this thread:

sexchangeregret.com/
theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/12/male-and-female-brains-really-are-built-differently/281962/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_sex_differences
thoughtcatalog.com/lorenzo-jensen-iii/2015/06/13-real-differences-between-male-and-female-brains/
psychologytoday.com/blog/hope-relationships/201402/brain-differences-between-genders
youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6es6zh1c
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Gays have AIDS

traps are the gayest gay

Ok i'll bite:
Trannies don't consider it a choice but something you were born as.

Maybe it's because youdon't choose what to be attracted to( at least not consciously) byt you can choose what to call yourself. Honestly I couldn't give less of a shit what people say their gender/race is. Actions speak louder than words

Fuck choices. We don't have them.

The argument is that gender isn't a choice, it's something you're born into just like being gay.

I'll buy that some people feel better living under the standards of a different sex or even no sex at all. Some guys like traditionally girly stuff and vice-versa, and I'm sure some people prefer to just be themselves without their gender getting into it. I think recognizing the differences in people would only make the world better.

Fuck off if you think I'm going to recognize your gender as Pluto or Tortoise though.

The most rational response we'll ever see.

Maybe its because gender is a social role not dependant on biology. Jesus christ dont reject facts.

Gender is the physical manifestation of your developed body, gay is a combination of choice and nature. Human hermaphrodites are actually flawed male or female, depending upon the clitoris/penis and if ovaries became testicles or not. Gender can become a choice if it is a pressing issue in your personality/ neurochemistry. Nothing is black & white, only political hacks say it is so.

> less of a shit what people say their gender/race is.

I agree with that. Xim/xer/xitself whatever.

Problem isn't that snowflakes do this. Its that snowflakes get upset when others DON'T do it.
In one day I got asked what my preferred pronouns were and if I'd just assumed a person's gender. Questions were from different people, and the second person asking the second question looked like xit's head was going to explode from triggrd rage.

Da fuq? If it looks, quacks, and walks like a duck then I'm going to call it a duck until informed otherwise. Then I'm still going to call it a duck just for the giggles.

>Nothing is black & white, only political hacks say it is so
Agree.
We live in a world that is constantly changing around us. There is very little true permanence to our reality; why should our gender, beliefs, ideologies, etc be something permanent and unchanging?

And I don't get why they sometimes seem unable to understand why you got it wrong or whatever.

If I wanted to go by her but looked exactly like a guy, I wouldn't get upset if people called me him because they didn't know otherwise. People are not mind readers.

My thing is this, the screaming idiots complicate the simple and simplify the complicated. As long as people are respected and reality is not completely ignored, let it be. If you ever say "I identify as..." and not "I am..." you are lying and need to shut the fuck up. Also, if the word "fluid" is ever part of your identity, shut the fuck up. Confused people don't have the right to share opinions unless they include the fact that they are confused as part of sharing their opinion.

who fucking cares?

I would have though they'd take it as a compliment.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone dressed 'gender neutral'... apart from one guy in high school who wore a leather skirt. He was the token weird kid though. Hell of a nice guy but he'd claim to sacrifice puppies to Satan just to get a reaction out of people

Actually, there are three genders.
Male, female and David Bowie (exclusive to David Bowie).

>Confused people don't have the right to share opinions

I mean I get what you're saying but that's just untrue.

>Gender is the physical manifestation of your developed body
Something that isn't physical is the physical manifestation of something that is?

Gender is a social construct
Sex is not.

You People are the most uneducated bunch

They must say they have that opinion because they are confused. If you are not confident, you have no right to share it unless you also say you are not confident, confused. I stand by it, you don't have the right to be righteous about anything unless you are sure about it.

>If you ever say "I identify as..." and not "I am..." you are lying and need to shut the fuck up
WTF are you talking about? If someone identifies as an attack helicopter, then it's not a lie if they say they do. It's only a lie if they say they are an attack helicopter.

But you do have the right, it's called free speech. You don't have to like it but you're sounding pretty autist with all this 'you must do X' and 'you can't say Y'.

Again, I get what you're saying, but being such a stick in the mud is a bit unnecessary. Live and let live, especially if it's about someone speaking their mind. How is telling someone what they can and can't say any different from tumblr trying to enforce their SJW bullshit?

If they say "I identify as an attack helicopter", they are lying. They don't believe they are.
If they say "I am an attack helicopter", they are delusional. They believe they are.

there is no difference between those two.
Only gender roles can be social constructs.
Having a mental illness is something that should be healed, not justified.

Feeling like a woman=/= having a female brain.

It's an abuse of free speech, like propaganda. Let us agree to disagree. I won't stop morons from chatting like that. I will tell them how stupid they are and tell them to shut the fuck up. If they keep speaking, I will abuse my right to free speech to openly mock them.

>I will abuse my right to free speech to openly mock them.

Actually that is a genuine 'abuse of free speech' as you put it, whereas them voicing an opinion is not, no matter how much you personally disagree.

Again I understand your point; you shouldn't be expected to agree with someone's delusions, but I don't think you have the right to tell someone they can't have their opinion too. Live and let live, agree to disagree.

The treatment is to let trans people transition.

Bullshit. It's not an abuse of free speech. Criticism is the best part of free speech. I don't get where this retarded idea that free speech is just everyone spamming their opinions without feedback came from.

I usually say live and let live, agree to disagree. You are probably someone in the crowd who physically stops me from beating the snot out of a loud idiot who won't shut up and frustrates me into dropping my IQ to political partisan level and attacking him/her. Kudos, the world needs people like you.

Can you provide me some evidence that there is a 'male brain' and a 'female brain', rather than male traits and female traits as learned behaviors?

im a 21 year old male but people assume im a female. why are you all so sexist

because women are inferior to men.

what?

Best part about that is it's self defeating, can't say gender norms are defined by society AND say gender identity isn't a choice but something your born as.

Once the tumblr snowflakes claim you can be born as the wrong gender they are inadvertently admitting societal gender roles are natural, not created by the media. One day they'll realize this and the movement will fall apart.

Exactly, they were created to take the dick,

Men were given dicks

Cheers user, I just think the world is better if we leave each other too it as much as possible. Unfortunately that means a lot of ignoring people you really disagree with. I guess it doesn't really effect anything letting them hold their opinions though, let bygones be bygones and all that.

I took the post to mean harassing or bullying rather than criticism. If that wasn't intended then I stand corrected, but ripping into someone because you personally disagree is very different to fair objective criticism.

/thread
Individual > subjective identity

I understand where you are coming from and I agree with >Fuck off if you think I'm going to recognize your gender as Pluto or Tortoise though

>Confused people don't have the right to share opinions

Don't you see how confused people can easily become confused because of the screaming idiots who try and make things black and white and complicate the simple. When people are experiencing things and feelings that aren't necessarily black and white but instead are nuanced and maybe even (dare I say it) "fluid" they can easily feel confused when their family, friends, or community, are reinforcing the idea that what they are feeling is wrong and/or deviant in any way.

>Once the tumblr snowflakes claim you can be born as the wrong gender they are inadvertently admitting societal gender roles are natural, not created by the media. One day they'll realize this and the movement will fall apart.

They are not. The gender is set according to the childs sexual organ after cultural roles. They are born in the wrong gender. You are wrong.

?????????

I think you didn't understand my argument.

Well you're born male or female according to the state so you could argue that you're made to adopt societies gender roles even if you were 'born' differently. Don't know if I personally agree but I'd say there's more of a crossover between biology and society than your post implies; you can have something which is influenced by both. They don't exist in a vacuum, totally removed from each other.

So gender norms and expectations could be societal but your personal gender isn't a choice would be the argument.

>Unfortunately that means a lot of ignoring people you really disagree with.
This. This is what I lived by for years. For some reason, The Stupid is infecting all cultures. The Stupid is accepted as reality. The Stupid is considered just as valid as any intellectual idea. Free Speech was proposed to allow the discorse between opposing ideals, assuming the stupid people will lose any debate and thus ignored. So, The Stupid infuriates me because disinformation being treated as respected ideology/ intellectualism is contaminating the masses that lead Europe to the Dark Ages. I don't want the Dark Ages to happen here. The Stupid must be opposed with the same fervor The Stupid is supported.

There are 2 genders : male and female. People who don't fit in these categories suffer from a condition. Gay is not a gender, it's a sexual preference. It's subject to change during life. Those who promote gender theory are just trying to distract the opinion from the social issues that actually matter, such as Babymetal.

If you're worried about regressing then I wouldn't be. This is a product of the internet being so relatively new. People are talking more, which is a good thing even if it means a few odd ideas floating about.

You're seeing progress, even if it still has a lot of kinks to work out. It's the result of better global communication rather than stupidity, and I think it'll even itself out in time.

Keep telling yourself that
sexchangeregret.com/

we should put all of the mental illness in a meat grinder in order to supply us with food.

They could also work in circus entertaining us with their freakshow

I'm curious about your thoughts on the two party system in the U.S. Do you think it is encouraging the Stupid on both sides of the political spectrum?

Could you do your own research on the subject? I'm sure you have a browser installed, it wasn't made exclusely for trap threads and tumblr you know.

I hope you are right. The Church and the wealthy people funding it's printing press expansion created the Dark Ages, their version of The Stupid. They spread The Stupid through their version of the internet, the printing press and those in control of said information/ education. Regression always happens when The People lose control of information and-or The Stupid infects it. I know history. The USA is getting close to having the Romanov's with a crash resulting in Lennon's salvation hijacked by Stalin. The Stupid must be killed.

I could, but I was asking so you'd maybe find out yourself that men and women are biologically basically the same. I think you'd struggle to find any studies showing what you implied to be true.

>Do you think it is encouraging the Stupid on both sides of the political spectrum?
Yep. "Hey, slave... you want to be a house n***er (D) or a field n***er (R)?"

need conveyer belt to throw mental tard in meat grinder and mix it all up until its one color. after that use cookie cutter to fry up good nuggets.

Gender = Genitalia
There will also be genetic mutants in a species that have both female and male parts but those are the only complicated situations.
If you think you're a female and have a penis, you just have a chemical imbalance in your brain.

theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/12/male-and-female-brains-really-are-built-differently/281962/

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_sex_differences

thoughtcatalog.com/lorenzo-jensen-iii/2015/06/13-real-differences-between-male-and-female-brains/

psychologytoday.com/blog/hope-relationships/201402/brain-differences-between-genders

>men and women are biologically the same
Have you never been to a school or are you a dingus?

Male chimps and male humans are closer to eachother biologically than male humans and female humans.

also just type chromosomes in google search.

alternatively, if trolling is what keeps you going through your life, you really should spend some time thinking about how could you improve it.

>Anything that uses John Money as a source
KEK

if you type those three words, you'll still find an awful lot of hits, if you don't trust that source.

Yeah, they are confused because they are stupid little kids, who can't defend their own viewpoints. If you don't have people who understand your problems, open up an internet forum. My university is a leftist stronghold in Germany and I'm on the right. There are no 15 minutes on the campus without my ideas being challenged and my morality being questioned. They are lucky it's not the reverse, because under such conditions 90% of them would have hanged themselves already. Grow a fucking spine.

honestly I think the reason people pushed 'gay is not a choice' so hard was because it was still seen as something to be ashamed of, like a moral failing, or more artificial compared to heterosexuality. there's a lot of choice in how you live sexually + that's a good thing.

Of course there will be people who regret SRS.
The surgery could have been botched, It might not have been enough to help with their gender dysphoria, or hell they could have been misdiagnosed/faking it.

So because some people regret surgery or commit suicide after surgery (The swedish study isn't about that by the way) that means the surgery just shouldn't be an option? You want to go back to electrocuting people and having even more suicides?

>my ideas being challenged and my morality being questioned
Why do you think your ideas are being challenged so often? And how would you describe your morals?

Hamans can only give birth to two genders.

and Prince, you forgot Prince

No, i want people to make peace with themselves, understand their identity, a stop thinking mutilating their bodies is the thing that'll make them happy.
And i want those who realize that this can't be reversed, to stop trying to force their clenched-teeth "happiness" which is formed in attention whoring and public sexual deviance on society and insecure teenagers, calling the whole thing "progressive".

Sure if you can't imagine your life otherwise, WORK for it, collect the money, and get it done. But for fucks sake don't run around yelling it's a fucking achievement, and expect special treatment.
And don't fucking expect the tax money other people have worked for pay for all this.
Disgusting.

This whole discussion is pointless. We're looking at the outcome and asking ourselves if people had a choice in the matter, like it is the most important detail of it all. After that the most crazed of us keep looking at political goals and making up pseudo scientific theories. Like the gay/trans babywater theory. What a joke.

I believe that this gay/trans/genderinsane epidemic has less to do with what you people think, and more to do with overpopulation. I would claim that is directly the result of overpopulation, consumerism and cyberbalkanization. If you look at John Calhoun's overpopulaton experiments you can tell that there's a very obvious connection.

The truth is that people are turning gay, hikikomori and all kinds of fucked up due to overpopulation. Gay/trans culture is forced onto us to keep the overpopulated areas going and the cogs turning. The economical consiquences aren't bearable and the people in real seats of power think that the solution is to accept the problem as part of everyday reality.

People are gay, trans, hikikomori and asexual because they're more or less social rejects.
That is the ultimate truth about this.

We are social creatures. They can't make peace with themselves when so many people are so combative and are telling them that their identity is a sexual deviance. Maybe if folks like yourself were less combative against this whole thing they might stop with their attention whoring and shit.
I totally agree with you and find many of these "progressives" and "insecure teenagers" annoying as fuck but if your just fucking ignore them then they will eventually feel accepted.
After all, can't we all identify with the need to feel accepted by others?

there exists a subset of the population that believes they are a member of the opposite sex. within this subset, there exists another subset of people who believe they are a member of the opposite sex because of some chemical psuedo-equilibrium in their brain that was effectively coded into their dna at conception. this sub-subset includes a ratio of the members of their parent set--those that believe they are members of the opposite sex--of somewhere between 0 (is and empty set) and 1 (all people who believe they are members of the opposite sex believe so because of genetic chemistry).

If you believe or are willing to believe that this ratio is 0

Jesus christ. In that case everyone with genetic defects are gay AND retarded. What happened to testing out theories? god damn.

If you look at Calhoun's experiments you can tell that it's obvious that being sexually abnormal is a learned pattern which becomes a manical obsession.

T:

Fuck. So back in the day a bunch of christfags that were ALMOST as bad as the Muslim sandniggers are today started enforcing their gender norms. Prior to this people just fucked other people. If you really wanted kids you made sure to fuck women. Men had a natural tendency to be more macho, women more dainty, but it wasn't so polarized because it didn't fucking matter.

This entire discussion and judgement is leftovers from essentially god fearing christfags controlling society.

I don't give a fuck what anyone identifies as, or likes, or fucks, just as long as we can just fucking get laid.

Why waste time, there's some fucking nice holes to fill out there.

>Why do you think your ideas are being challenged so often?
Because the campus is full of brainwashed wussies like I described. To someone like me it's definitely a hostile environment, but really doesn't exceed the usual. From contract ads saying "men need not apply", over speech codes, to the standard "you're wrong because it hurts my feelings". So far nobody has beat me up.

>And how would you describe your morals?
Fairly individualistic, fairly anti-authoritarian, and mostly consisting of contract law. Most of all, it's a grave sin to talk out of your ass outside of a war (kind of a complicated thing), which seems to have become standard behavior for most people.

>inb4 "Do you think it would be acceptable to shoot my neighbor's escaped slave children for starving on my lawn without my permission?"
No.

You're letting tumblr cloud your mind. Tumblr isn't the real world. Just like how not all gay people are super flamboyant queens, not all trans people are pink haired attention whores. Its not "progressive" to transition. When most people talk about being progressive, its in reference to giving people rights and opportunities that they were previously denied.

In civilized countries at least, there is a waiting period and tons of psychological evaluations before you are allowed on hormones, and then again before you can get recommended for surgery. Some people will circumvent that with mail order hormones and going to thailand or something for surgery. That is a big problem and I imagine a lot of regret comes from not going through proper channels for these things and transitioning when you don't actually have gender dysphoria.

Of course there are reasons why someone might not be able to use proper channels like religious parents, not wanting to lose friends, or because of regulations in the country. Thats why it would be "progressive" to continue to educate people on what being trans is and hopefully in a few years it will be more accepted like being gay is.

I don't think all that many people "expect" special treatment. This kind of goes back to the tumblr thing, but if someone is making a genuine effort to pass as female, I dont think its that big of a deal to treat them as a female.

As for taxes paying for transitioning, that is a little trickier. I'm assuming this is coming from a country that already has socialized healthcare otherwise there would be nothing to argue about. Some people will view SRS as a life saving surgery. Are you going to deny someone surgery that would save their life because you think their lifestyle is icky?

>some people are "sexually abnormal" through learned behavior
>all people are "sexually abnormal" through learned behavior

not the same thing

>Internet
>Relatively new

Mate, its been around since the late goddamn 80's. Just because you are 15 does not mean that the internet is "relatively new"

Treating someone as a female is one thing, Acknowledging that they magically became females on a biological level is another, and will not happen until nanites can engineer a living human's dna.

about healthcare, yea you might have a big fucking nose and generally be ugly, and considering suicide because of that. Healthcare won't pay your plastic surgeries, and neither should it. It should cover the psychological help, to either accept yourself the way you are, OR earn the privilige of plastic surgery by adding to society, WORKING.

Stop trying to victimize these people, and blaming me for their behaviour. That's just plain stupid.

A sane adult doesn't try to become accepted, by doing such things. He realizes that everyone has sexual deviances, but publicly acting out about them has consequences.
No, these people want attiention in any form(in this case, hatred) and ignoring them will only make it all worse, because they feel like they need to be even more destructive to get what they want.
Again, this is a mental illness, and the way you'd handle it, is not the way that would help.

>everyone has sexual deviances
If everyone has sexual deviances would they really be deviances? Or would the social norms just be fraudulent?

That's straight up BS. Research shows that transgenderism is psychically very very similar to anorexia:
- A person with anorexia looks in the mirror and sees him/herself as fat and overweight (while it's clearly not true)
- A person suffering from transgenderism is the same: look in the mirror, be man, see woman. This is also clearly not true.
- conclusion: both suffer from a disorder of assumption, which belongs to the field of psychiatry.
Ps. Post op trannies are far more likely to commit suicide, so let's all keep promoting this mental illness, it's the ethical thing to do.

addendum: Civilized trans people should be the ones harshly opposing the attention whoring behaviour, and publicly isolating themselves from it, if they ever want to be accepted.

Yes they would. social norms aren't static, but cannot be changed by those who completely isolate themselves from them.
Also their purpose is to uphold civilization, so fighting against theit whole idea is retarded, and missing the point.

If you want to recieve the benefits of civilization, you have to adapt to it's social norms.
If you want it to progress, you adapt, and share (NOT FORCE) ideas that could make it better.
It is not something that can be achieved in a few years, and it can never be achieved by force.

That being said, humans are not completely collectivist, especially these days. If you keep your "deviances"(Let's call it that, but to make you happy i'll clear that by them i mean straying away from social norms) to yourself, you probably won't be judged.

>Stop trying to victimize these people, and blaming me for their behaviour.
I am truly sorry. I completely understand how it may seem like this is what I am doing. I cannot begin to imagine what these people are going through and I don't really understand what you are going through either. I just feel like their over-the-top, attention seeking behavior seems characteristically similar to your type of reactionary response.
I'm just trying to understand why people get so offended and defensive when it comes to the topic of gender, sex, and love. I only want to try and find a reasonable way of living in harmony with each other.

>the way you'd handle it, is not the way that would help
What would help then? I merely am trying to offer a solution that does not involve more name-calling, hatred, and instead try and foster an environment that allows for more compassion.

This is the dumbest fucking conversation ive seen on b in a while.

Homosexuals prefer to fuck a certain gender

Transgender people think that they are a gender that they can demonstrably proven not to be

The difference is like that of saying either

"I like pink ice cream even though it is not popular to do so"

And

"I literally cant eat ice cream because even though i was born with a stomach i dont believe i should have one please remove it"

>If you want it to progress, you adapt, and share (NOT FORCE) ideas that could make it better.
I totally agree. That being said, do you find homosexual behavior to be damaging to society and/or immoral? If so, why?

Alright this example might come off as a bit ironic and hateful (which i assure you is not) but i'll continue anyways.

A man wakes up with a mysterious open wound on his leg. He goes to the hospital, where they tell him it's a flesh eating bacteria, with no cure.
The leg has to go. Obviously the man is opposing the idea, but the doctors say if they don't get rid of that leg there's a good chance he will die, or at least have horrible scars on all over his body, and the leg will still be an useless stump.
What's ethical here? Letting the man's fear ruin his life, OR removing the leg, and through psychological treatment, help the man accept his fate.

see >do you find homosexual behavior to be damaging to society and/or immoral? If so, why?

Because I understand that if some ideology or belief is harmful and damaging to society and humanity as a whole that we should try and eliminate those ideologies.
I just don't see how homosexuality or identifying as a certain gender etc is truly harmful to anyone's well-being.

youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6es6zh1c
This about sums it up for me.

Simply being gay...Well if it is damaging to society, it's so minimal compared to other issues that i don't think it deserves any attention.

Great summation. Key and Peele are masters at social commentary through comedy.

This is fucking A grade autism, with 0 society, there would still be two genders.

>A person suffering from transgenderism is the same: look in the mirror, be man, see woman.
But thats wrong. They see a man and it causes them distress. If trans people saw themselves as women and they identified as women then there wouldn't be a problem.

The study that always gets thrown around for increased suicide rates in post op trans women was not looking at suicide rates and should not be used as evidence for such. There has been plenty of studies that show the exact opposite and that surgery vastly improves their gender dysphoria and mental health overall.

Generally humour is the most fail-safe way to tell if someone is mentally stable, or has issues, imo. If you can take or even make a joke about something that's part of your identity, without any emotional charge, you're god tier human by my standards.

>best parent's i've met laughed at dead baby jokes