hey you guyz, since we're a serious general now let's do what those very serious gentlemen over in /jazz/ do
what are you listening to right now? who is your favourite conductor? what recitals/concerts are you going to this month?
I believe in chuu /classical/
Lucas Rogers
Sorry sweaty, but I was the one to post Mirga in earlier threads and so already claimed her, please look elsewhere
Carter Garcia
Richter in Leipzig Scherchen Only really got one lined up and that's a concert focusing on the performance of colossal polyphony (so Spem in alium, Striggio's Missa sopra Ecco si beato giorno, and some other stuff), should be singing in it but I've got other things to be doing instead so I can't make rehearsals. Should be great though.
Christian Rodriguez
mite as well ansr my own questns
>what are you listening to right now? going thru Gardiner's recordings of the cantatas >who is your favourite conductor? Philippe Herreweghe desu >what recitals/concerts are you going to this month? none I am afraid to go. my pills make me sleepy and the stress never goes away it's just dulled I tried going once and I ended up standing next to the wall near the entrance because my seat was in the middle of the row and there were already other people there people looked at me funny several times and I cried until I fell asleep when I got home
(pls dont let the thread die)
Jaxson Price
>qts I dont see it. She's 6/10 max
Christopher Ross
>sweaty
Levi Garcia
Homosexual please, she's at least an 8/10. Look over more pics of women when they're not caked up in makeup.
hey I didn't know about Arthur Lourie taking a brake from Bach and listening to his concerto spirituale atm it sounds very strange. the music is homophonic and harmony is pretty traditional but the orchestral accompaniment is very modern .
>feeling fragile no worries we r safe here
Hunter Wright
what is a /pseud/ ?
this is /classical/ mostly we talk about classical music, but sometimes degenerates talk waifus or just shitpost
Gabriel Cooper
>the music is homophonic and harmony is pretty traditional hmm, nvm desu there were a few debussy-like deviations in the second half andit is pretty chromatic in the last quarter basically late medieval meets early 20th century
this was cool
Zachary Hill
/classical/ will never be a serious general until the posters who know what they're talking about will stand up to steer the threads in that direction and everyone else applies themselves and begins to own up to their posts.
Joshua Lee
classical is as serious as any other thread on Sup Forums, which isn't saying much.
Jayden King
1.) Ernst Busch lieder 2.) Claudio Abbado 3.) None. Don't live close enough to any.
Jayden Garcia
Then you start. >You all do this while I do nothing.
Nathaniel Evans
>she's got a pretty manly jawline Conducting is a pretty manly vocation. You're the captain of the crew and all.
Please cut it out with the >tfw autism stuff. It's depressing. >this fag again Didn't you say you will never post in this shit again? Why are you still here?
Jackson Taylor
Post Liszt
Jayden Sanchez
I'm here to teach you manbabies a thing or two with my love of Bach and Chopin.
David Bennett
Garbage taste detected
>what are you listening to right now? Currently nothing but tomorrow I'll dive into Górecki's Symphony No. 3
>who is your favourite conductor? Not sure but I kind of like Leif Segerstam
>what recitals/concerts are you going to this month? None
Wyatt Howard
>garbage taste Ironic based on the contents of your post
Mason Walker
wow rude
Isaac Carter
>Górecki's Symphony No. 3
Tyler Gonzalez
Schubert is my waifu
Colton Reed
Looks like a school shooter.
Sebastian Davis
I claim Lili Boulanger as my slut for this thread. You can all have a go at her on the house. Except that guy who puts her on a pedestal. He may only watch us pummel her pussy.
Jeremiah Thomas
Rate my qtpi senpaitachi
Ethan Cruz
>Those lustful eyes
Noah Foster
>during those moments when only the orchestra is playing, she looks out into the audience to make sure you are only ever watching her
David Williams
...
Juan Gutierrez
>womenposting is the new /classical/ meme Well, it's better than bogposting I can say that much.
Cameron Peterson
>hommage to boulez >cover picture is an anus
Blake Parker
Barenboim's not on the cover, though
Xavier Scott
Where is s/t?
Grayson Morgan
Rude.
Mason Mitchell
don't be depressed everything will be ok embrace your autism. we are safe here
(I am rescuing the thread from page 9 guyz pls)
Samuel Edwards
I do not understand this "I can't listen to classical music with vocals" meme
Nathan Adams
I don't understand either what meme?
Daniel Nguyen
What's the common stance, among composers and critics, about musical systems, especially tonality? Is there a consensus about it? I have just started listening to classical music and I'm still completely removed from the contemporary discourse.
Colton Williams
>what are you listening to right now? Dvořák B. 7 >who is your favourite conductor? I dunno I only listen to chamber music >what recitals/concerts are you going to this month? Implying I have that kind of money
Brandon Moore
It's an opinion I encounter not infrequently. People say something about how they can't stand the "style" of classical singing (usually highlighting opera performers) so they don't listen to it as a whole. They appear in /classical/ from time to time. There's so much wrong with that stance that it's difficult to know where to start >implying it's expensive to go to classical concerts
Zachary Richardson
>>implying it's expensive to go to classical concerts For you
If you're under 30 and you live either in the US or in Europe it should be extremely cheap. In Italy I could get 25 concerts for 60 Euros, in Berlin I had an enire seasonal subscription (33 concerts) for 50 Euros.
Dunno about the US though, especially now that Trump has cut on the NEA.
Adam Robinson
I don't think I've ever spent more than £15 to go to a performance of classical music.
Owen Walker
There is no consensus. Some composers will still only compose in the tonal system, while others completely ignore tonality (and even distinct pitches).
Carson Kelly
>£15 I don't remember the last time I spent that much money on anything I don't even remember the last time I held that much money in my hand
Robert Gray
>Live music Hello 1910A.D.
Joseph Gonzalez
Do you photosynthesise?
Juan Collins
Well, I was asking because I've checked on a few major competition contests, and I was not able to find any tonal music of the caliber of Beethoven's. I decided to search outside of major composition competitions, and still ended up in failure: I still have to find a modern tonal composer who is as sophisticated and erudite as people like Beethoven was. The only ''systematic'' information I could gather from those competitions is that tonal music is either disregarded or has virtually no worthwhile composer (which might be the case, but I'm skeptical about it). Only the former case remains: there is a set of presupponitions, some sort of zeitgeist that, to this day, equates high art with avant-gardistic art, with a series of minor implications (composers compose only for other composers, meaning that the consensus between composers is actually extremely relevant when it comes to the single piece of music; originality, novelty and innovation at the top of the value chart; disdain of traditional beauty, of things as simple a a I-IV-I chord progression, and so on: you get where I'm going).
Now, I don't think these things are necessarily bad (I'm not really advocating for their non-existence), still they seem way too universal and widespread on a multicontinental level for me to just disregard it as something that is not organized in the slightest, and most importantly, as a listener, I don't really understand these processes and intentions (which means that I can't really trust my judgement on this music, at the moment). There must be a series of works and books that convinced MOST academic composers to devote their entire life to this sort of experimental life goal. What are these sources, that somehow tune the vast majority of serious composers in the same 'conceptual' direction?
Daniel Nguyen
>not listening to live music
Comfirmed for not being a actual musician. >tfw he won't ever study intonation from Italian tenors >tfw he won't ever study intonation from the best Russian piano virtuosos >tfw he won't ever study phrasing from the best German violinists
It looks like you're set for a life of mediocrity, pal.
Gabriel Collins
Concerts are an excuse for socializing you pleb. Why even move from my seat when i have countless superior recordings of any work only a click away.
Charles Rogers
Classical music on record is a just a poor imitation of the real thing.
Noah Gutierrez
>while others completely ignore tonality (and even distinct pitches).
What's the point of this?
Jayden Moore
Tonal music has been making a comeback over the part ~40 years after being generally viewed as regressive. Minimalism came along as well and posited a third route that wasn't really tonal or atonal. The issue is that there's not much point in writing pastiche romantic music. Composers want to have a measure of individuality, so they write music that incorporates elements of the precursors and take inspiration from other composers, but there's no point trying to be Mahler mk. II musically, since Mahler probably did it better and at any rate, did it first. Add in the fact that a lot of the reasons for which you so admire Beethoven are because he has been the focus of study and performance for the better part of two centuries, which is necessarily going to colour how you view him and his work. Plus, if you're unable to understand the "processes and intentions" of modern composers, many of whom have described their compositional processes in some depth, then I'm not sure you're really applying the same sort of thought to Beethoven's music.
I'm not denying that he was a magnificent composer, but you can't really compare him to modern composers in the same way.
There is plenty of modern tonal music (and atonal too) of a high quality out there, you just seem to be approaching it from an angle in which you are determined not to find it.
Jaxson Brown
>Concerts are an excuse for socializing you pleb.
Concerts are an excuse to feel the sublime and, if you're a musician, it should be an attempt to steal the musical secrets of the performer, who will, more often than not, be a virtuoso of high calibre. You're probably just too stupid to get it, though.
>Why even move from my seat when i have countless superior recordings of any work only a click away. First of all, I doubt you've got in your home a sound system that can rival an orchestra, meaning that you probably don't even know how a cello actually sounds like, and how its frequencies interact with the human body. You don't even know that, and you're still trying to sell your ignorance as the highest form of patrician-ship there is.
You may as well consider yourself deaf.
Cameron Thompson
Oh hey, it's the loser who cried for 5 hours about being called a gorilla.
Sebastian Nguyen
John Cage - Silence
also the collective writings of: Harry Partch Pierre Boulez Karlheinz Stockhausen
Nathaniel Roberts
Whilst I am sympathetic to this view (and held it for a long time), the other guy is right: there is something about a live performance that is lost via recording. Of course it does mean that I have to sit through some interpretations with which I disagree, and performers who aren't as good as the GOATs, but as an experience it is still worth it. Plus it encourages you to encounter new interpretations of pieces which is a worthwhile outcome anyway. And there's nothing wrong with the socialising aspect too, so long as it doesn't detract from the musical aspect. I met a previous gf at a concert series that we were both attending, and we could enjoy the concert together, discuss the music and interpretation over a drink afterwards and then go have sex. Wouldn't have had that if I had decided that the performance of Schubert's Piano Trio no. 2 in the first concert wouldn't be as good as recordings I had on my computer.
Jaxon Nguyen
>but there's no point trying to be Mahler mk I wasn't really implying it. Let's put it this way: Mozart took the minuet in stil galant, and elevated it to his piano concertos. In the end it was ''Mozart'', but dissect it enough and you'll return to that genre. You can do the same with Beethoven: dissect what sounds like ''Beethoven'' enough and you'll end up with some popular German songs. With Bach you'll end up with a invention for students, and so on. Now, my impression is that these guys, starting from completely different aesthetics and philosophies (think about for example, Bach would have not approved of Mozart music for its ingenuity and it's almost fake happiness; in the same way Mozart would have been puzzled by Beethoven's music, for it went against all of its aesthetic beliefs) all did the same exact thing. They took a small set of very different conventions, and elevated it as much as possible. In this sense, when I say that I can't find any tonal composer of the caliber of Beethoven, what I mean is that I've found no composer who, on his own terms, was able to trascend as much as Beethoven did in his own terms. I'm not implying that people should return to a common practice conventional harmony, nor I have any interest in hearing anything like that. And at the same time I really can't see how tonality means that you'll inevitably end up referencing old composers, if anything this century showed me quite the opposite: for about 80 years unskilled musicians picked up instruments and, surprisingly, while using the most basic components of harmony and melody they were able to reach sonorities, moods, emotions, sensations, and concepts that had no point of reference in the classical tradition: although I really can't see him as nothing more than a minor artist, Jimi Hendrix sounded like nothing else, and he would have sounded like nothing else even in a more traditional, non electrical formation. Isn't this a giant red flag in favour of tonality?
Jose Nguyen
Nothing compares to the comfyness and concentration solitary listening can offer. Are you an orchestra musician (trained monkey)? Those do the most hardcore shilling of their trade, with excuses similar to yours.
Point remains: why spent effort, time and money on a sub-par musical experience. Even the performers cant give their best when they are paraded like circus animals.
Levi Rogers
exploration of timbres and other aspects of music neglected by common practice era tonality.
It's why composers like Stravinsky and Varèse started to develop rhythm in a more complex way than their predecessors.
Adam Bell
>what are you listening to right now? pic related >who is your favourite conductor? Klemperer >what recitals/concerts are you going to this month? none
Kayden Taylor
>Are you an orchestra musician (trained monkey)? lol
>Point remains: why spent effort, time and money on a sub-par musical experience. Because, to this day, you literally don't know how a row of cellos actually sound like. Do you think I'm the one taking compromises here? You're the guy here who has never experienced the sheer power of a brass section to its entire extent.
Do you think that having people around you is a bigger compromise when compared to the fact that you've never heard how these instruments actually sound like, and how they're frequencies actually interact with the human body (which is something that is accounted by every composer worth their salt)?
It's like shilling for translated poetry.
David Peterson
>what are you listening to right now? I am continuing my 'study' of Charles Koechlin's music, which I like more the more of I listen to. But then again the man practically wrote music for me -- his music is a patchwork / summary of post-Debussy styles.
>who is your favourite conductor? I don't have one. I only have preferred conductors for certain composers / works. Broadly, I am almost fully on board the old recordings meme. Knappertsbusch, Monteux, Klemperer, Böhm, Ornandy, Toscanini, Furtwängler, Reiner, Celibidache etc.
>what recitals/concerts are you going to this month? Going next Sunday. Toru Takemitsu's Nostalghia, Max Bruch's Violin Concerto #1 and Brahms' 4th.
Juan Wood
This question might sound silly but can i appreciate classical as much if i was a jazz musician?
Nathaniel Lewis
You can appreciate classical if you never touched an instrument before.
Luis Ortiz
Not fully, though.
For the uneducated listeners on /classical/: you're missing 99% of it.
William Jones
> Ravel - "La Valse" > Bernstein > Barber Violin Concerto and Dvorak 7
Oliver Wood
>Do you think that having people around you is a bigger compromise when compared to the fact that you've never heard how these instruments actually sound like Yes it is for me.
>actually sound like. >sheer power of a brass section >frequencies actually interact with the human body You sound like an audiophile ( id est, impressionable fool). You are in love with the sound not the music. I'm listening to Ferrier's 1949 Kidertotenlieder on YouTube, on headphones. I wouldn't trade the emotion that is conveyed with any modern performance. Live concerts are a remnant of a past era
Kayden Smith
Dvorak 7 is great, although I went to a student orchestra performance of it with a pretty awful horn section which made me realise how important the horns are in that symphony.
Ryan Richardson
Yes, the culture of 'perfectibility' is dead. You're incoherent about it, but you want small incremental changes within the same musical tradition. New verses in an old language. That approach to music is virtually gone now. We live in a culture that strives for perpetual 'innovation'. New verses in new languages. (Not the user you were talking to by the way; but we've had this discussion before in /classical/; it seems to be a recurrent meme.)
Without the existence of those 'subpar' concerts you would never have your cream of the crop. There has to be a pool of musicians from which the best will slowly rise to the top. If everyone had your attitude, music would not exist. Not acoustic music anyway.
Henry Miller
>You sound like an audiophile
>the most basic appreciation for how the music actually sounds means that you're an audiophile >the aknowledgement of the most basic effect a instrument like a cello will produce means that you're a audiophile (id est, impressionable fool).
I guess you're a grammar nazi, since you clearly possess the most basic grammar tools available to human beings. What a impressionable fool: when it comes to books, a real conoisseur limits himself to Wikipedia's summaries.
>I wouldn't trade the emotion that is conveyed with any modern performance. Well, first of all you've got no idea of how modern performances sound like: you've already admitted it. Secondly, I would trade the emotion conveyed by that record: you know with what? With the actual fucking performance. Do you want me to believe that if you had the chance to see Ferrier singing live Kindertotenlieder tomorrow you would still stick with the badly recorded version?
Jack Gutierrez
>youtube heeheehee
Jeremiah Cox
>Not fully, though.
Lucas Parker
>New verses in a old language. What's wrong with the language being old, as long as it is treated in truly original ways? For example, why would such an example not work with literature, instead of music?
>We live in a culture that strives for perpetual 'innovation'. Why this is coherent but striving for older goals, such as beauty and the sublime (to take as an example values that have been followed for centuries, not that I want them to be prevalent and omnipresent again), is coherent? Keep in mind that I'm not saying that one way is better than the other: rather I'm saying that theyre both equally arbitrary, and they're both based on prejudices (the new prejudices being the act of valuing more than anything else the objectivity of innovation). Yet these prejudices do not tell me anything about the quality and value of the music itself Whenever I think about what a modern composer could do, I do not really think about Beethoven, instead I think about Ravel. He comes very late in the game (when he was writing Le Tombeau de Couperin, Pierrot Lunaire was 4 years old), and, with the power of a style that was his own, he conquered the hearth of the public and the academics worldwide, and kept doing so 100 years now. It was a completely independent process that had no similar point of reference in our canon: he just made it up. Now, assuming that there is a Universe 2 in which Ravel is born in 2010, and at some point he writes the same exact compositions he wrote in Universe 1: in this new Unvierse would these composition be worth ''less''? Would they be less remarkable? Was the innovation the core of this music? If the answer is ''no, it would be just as valuable'', then why should I be fine with the collectivized prejudices that would see artists such as Ravel ostracized by academia? More generally: why is innovation the core of this century? Only beacuse it can be proved?
>but we've had this discussion before It wasn't me.
Levi Carter
Shit analogy desu. A better one: You care about the paper quality, the font used, the hardback cut, but you have little care for the actual book.
>Do you want me to believe that if you had the chance to see Ferrier singing live Kindertotenlieder tomorrow you would still stick with the badly recorded version? Maybe i'd go if i were to sole attendant. Just admit it, you are like the audiophile crowd that care autistically about the sound, not the music. You will never understand what you hear as long as you stay fixated on a surface level.
Nicholas Torres
>Post yfw you realized that this videogame music is much better than any classical composition
It depends. You'll have to unlearn how you approach music. Classical and jazz have very different aesthetic ideals.
Classical composers strive for 'finality' in their artworks / musical designs. Every detail must be well wrought. Even when the designs begin from improvisation (impromptu, fantasy genres) a composer will rework them until they acquire 'finality' -- their rough edges chiseled away; the rough sketch made into a full engraving (pic related, in musical form). And classical performers strive for the material realisation of that design.
Jazz is speed painting. It's that guy on the street doing pencil sketches and leaving it at that.
Joseph Robinson
>Shit analogy desu. A better one: You care about the paper quality, the font used, the hardback cut, but you have little care for the actual book.
Shitty analogy. You're comparing only the material that are being used, instead I'm stating that the auditory aspects of these instruments are part of the musical language in itself. Paper being of poor quality won't affect in any sensible way the comprehension of the intricacies of the masterpieces you're listening to.
>Just admit it, you are like the audiophile crowd that care autistically about the sound, not the music. First of all, I don't really get why you think that caring about the sound, timbres and frequencies when listening to music is a bad thing. Is caring about the rhythm when reading poetry inherently bad? These were all things that were accounted by the composer himself, meaning that you're missing on them, meaning that you're getting a piece of art that is not complete (unless you've got in your house a top-tier sound system, which I doubt).
>You will never understand what you hear as long as you stay fixated on a surface level. You're the one staying on a surface level, since you're appreciation inherently excludes some of the most basic and fundamental aspects of music. That's the difference between us: you're reading only for the plot, I'm reading also for the plot.
Jose Morris
>what are you listening to right now? youtube.com/watch?v=5GQImFmXzPQ >who is your favourite conductor? Carmignola >what recitals/concerts are you going to this month? None.
Adam Reyes
I'm not pronouncing on which culture is better. I'm merely describing the situation to you in more abstract terms. (The other user is hinting at the same thing.)
>What's wrong with the language being old, as long as it is treated in truly original ways? Define "truly original". Every snowflake is unique when you think about it. You have to have to be discriminating about it.
Adrian Barnes
You overestimate what is lost in a recording and underestimate the harmful impact almost all aspects of a live performance have on the enjoyment of music.
Sitting on your seat all proper like a good cuck, having to conform to every silly convention for negligible gains VS the absolute perfect concentration a solitary listening session can offer
Carter Sanders
>having to conform to every silly convention lmao, what do you want to do that is so scandalous?
He's probably just shy and rationalising it. He's stressed out around other people so he loses focus. I'm shy too, and I can emphasise with that. It's just that my desire to see recitals in the flesh overpowers my shyness. I'd recon a supermajority of posters are the same as the user who started this chain but in much less extreme ways.
Gabriel Moore
at which age did you guys start learning to play your classical instruments?
Matthew Cook
4
Ryan Sullivan
>He's stressed out around other people so he loses focus. This desu
Camden Sanders
Started piano and cello at 7 (dropped cello because I had to move and couldn't find a new cello teacher) Started clarinet at 9 Started singing (formally) at 18 - now 23 and voice is my main instrument.
Connor Taylor
>dropped cello because I had to move and couldn't find a new cello teacher
