The Godfather 2

Who was in the wrong here? Did Fredo deserve it? Did Michael fuck up?

He seemed very apologetic in Godfather 3,I think he may regret doing it.

It's hard to discern who was right and who was wrong in the context of a morally bankrupt family.
It's a character study dressed as an epic, not a moral tale.
The interesting question is why did they do what they did, what their actions say about them and their world.

Godfather 2 > Godfather 1

>Who was in the wrong here? Did Fredo deserve it? Did Michael fuck up?

It was too much of a risk to let Fredo live. He put the family in jeopardy.

>He seemed very apologetic in Godfather 3,I think he may regret doing it.

Yes. A lot of regrets. Michael was a broken man. And the death of his daughter was the final nail.

G1>G3>G2

Fredo was a faggot

Objectively very wrong.

>He seemed very apologetic in Godfather 3,I think he may regret doing it.
I mean he killed his older brother. Even with a rock solid reason for doing it that kind of thing is bound to eat at you.

Also Fredo fucked up hard for siding against the family, and set Michael up to get killed.

>Godfather 3

On the one hand his brother sided against him and tried to have him killed. I mean, seriously fuck you. On the other hand, he's his brother. And Fredo is a repeat screw up. There's no good solution to that.

He probably should have just sent Fredo away and never spoke to him again. I don't think Fredo is smart enough to really scheme against him.

...

I believe Fredo was genuinely naive. He wasn't too smart. It is possible Fredo has some kind of mental issues caused by when he got sick as a baby.

That's what he kind of did but Fredo kept coming back because of his mother. He was also cut out of the family business.

lol

>It is possible Fredo has some kind of mental issues caused by when he got sick as a baby.
Don't they say as much in godfather 2? Fredo was a little slow developmentaly.

IM SMAHT

Did Michael regret killing his brother ? Are you autistic ? That's the whole point of the movie, he chose to live a life that required him to do things he would regret. No one was right or wrong, or rather Michael did the right thing as a crime boss, but a horrible thing as Fredo's brother. Fredo tried to do what he thought was a gangster move, but he was a dumbass and fucked it up, and betrayed his family both as a criminal and as Michael's brother. That's the conflict. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're underage, but if you're an adult and need this kind of thing spelled out for you, just stick to superhero movies from now on.

He's not wrong

say what you want, but I like it

lol

AND I WANT SOME RESPEC ON IT

They were both wrong, obviously.

The more interesting and important question though is why Michael did it.

A lot of the point of Part II is asking how Michael, who carries on his father's legacy in leading the family, is different from Vito.

And essentially it boils down to the fact that Michael takes family for granted and Vito never did. Michael knows what it's like to lose family later in life, but doesn't really know what it is to grow up without them like his father did. And even before the assassination of Apollonia and the attempts on his father's life which clearly made him increasingly jaded and callous, he had already largely viewed himself as "different" than the rest of his family. He ostracized himself. It was made clear in his comment to Kay at his sister's wedding when he says "that's my family, Kay, it's not me" and it's made even clearer in the penultimate scene of Part II when he reveals that he joined the Army despite the family's plans for him and sits there alone in the kitchen while the rest of them celebrate Vito's b-day.

He is, and always was, a loner. It made for a leader that was feared and ultimately respected, but not one that commanded the fierce loyalty of Vito. It also made for a very strained personal relationship with the members of his family, and ultimately was the cause of both Fredo's betrayal and of Michael's inability to forgive it.

One part they never cleared in the movies.
Did the Corleones start selling drugs after Don Vito stopped being the boss?

Can you fuck off? Stop making a mockery of pure kino and one of the greatest actors of all time.

they never sold drugs

Fredo was no danger for the family anymore. G2 does a poor job at that aspect, making Michael a psychopath that kills hos brother for no reason just because "it needs to be done".

G3 makes a great job at taking that and humanizing Michael with repent. Becuase, for fuck's sake, he killed his brother.

I know, >G3, but you know you only praise G2 because of Vito's part, all the cuban plot is not really that good.

This. I honestly never understood what is happening in Michael's storyline in G2.

But how could they compete with the other familes?
Drugs bring in shittons of cash, Corleone's would've been curbstomped within 5 years.

They got into the bussines with the rest of the families, just leting the durg dealers work and taking their cut.

Like Solozzo wanted, but without Solozzo.

Casinos, they owned severals in las vegas

By II they were running the casinos in Las Vegas which brought in a lot of money.

>G2 does a poor job at that aspect, making Michael a psychopath that kills hos brother for no reason just because "it needs to be done".

I think you're greatly diminishing the weight of finding out that you're brother tried to have you killed.

I have fucking ex-gfs that can fuck all the way off and that I will never forgive for the shit they did. If my fucking brother tried to have me killed, that is just not a piece of knowledge I think I'd be able to mentally dismiss and live with.

>you're brother tried to have you killed.
No

Fredo never wanted any harm for Michael, he was cheated. And Micheal knows how easy to manipulate Fredo is. Fredo just wanted some money and some kind of authority to deal with his problems, but he thought he was doing the best for the family.

And don't forget Michael didn't kill Fredo to protect himself, he let Fredo live as long as the Mamma was still around, and Fredo proved to be a broken man that just wanted to go fishing and take care of the kids.

It's not a mockery, you twit
Godfather 2 is my favorite film

>Fredo never wanted any harm for Michael, he was cheated.

They're vague on the exact plan. The only way it could work is if Fredo gave someone a key, and told them when they could slip in unnoticed, and the story is that they were going to do something much more innocuous. Anything like letting guys from a rival crime group get access to your place though seems really sketchy.

Well what do you think they offered Fredo? He wanted to be boss and respected. He already had all the money in the world he could ever want.

The point is more that Fredo SHOULD have understood the larger implications of siding with the enemy and entertained the notion that even if he himself doesn't necessarily want harm to come to Michael, it puts Michael's safety at a very real risk to be an "inside man" for his enemies.

I can't say I disagree with Michael in concluding that being that stupid and shortsighted is dangerous enough in itself that you might as well be the one to pull the trigger.

That's just the thing though, as the Boss, Michael has to do it anyway, even if he forgave Fredo, even if Fredo was no danger. That's what it means to be the boss, you can't show weakness, you can't let that kind of betrayal pass, or people get ideas, and that's the biggest part of why it hurts him, because he knows he has no choice, in essence he killed Fredo the moment he entered the criminal life.

>you can't let that kind of betrayal pass, or people get ideas,

Did anybody know though? Those who'd know probably were dead by the end of the film.

Great post.

Yeah, we never get to know how Fredo's involvement ended with those guys shooting Michael's beroom, but we clearly gt to know that's not what Fredo wanted

He just wanted a piece of the cake and some power, becuase his wife knew he was a nobody and that was killing him. He never wanted to take his brother's place, even when at some place in his brain the fact that his father never took him in consideration hurts him.

I insist, Fredo never wanted Michael to be killed, I think that's pretty obvious. He didn't know what he was doing or he would have run like a motherfucker right after the shooting in Lake Tahoe

>On the one hand his brother sided against him and tried to have him killed.

Nah, he's just a moron who got tricked by Johnny Ola into saying too much.

There's some sortve info somewhere that said he was molested by a priest or some shit when he was a child. Not that would make him an idiot but it did have a big psycological effect on him. Also I don't think he totally meant to get Michael attacked, he was just naive and tricked and it made him obviously look bad

yes they used their political power to enable the drug trade but never engaged in it directly, instead they shifted to casinos

>he was bangin' cocktail waitresses, TWO at a time!

You're completely right, he should. But Fredo isn't the most clever guy, and Michale knows that. And yes, having a guy like that in your organization is dangerous, but remember, Fredo lived years after that just because Michael didn't want their mother to suffer. He wasn't dangerous anymore, he was retired and broken.

>you can't show weakness, you can't let that kind of betrayal pass
Show to who? Fredo lived for years after that. Nobody was giving a fuck anymore. And the Corleone were almost out of ilegal bussiness, it wasn't the old classic mafia shit anymore.

What was the reason for it? Too risky, brings the heat or Vito's principles, or both? I can't remember.

Godfather 3 is a meme, don't add it into discussion.

He felt he was passed over, he says as much to Michael. So you're right he wanted to create his own little slice of the pie but on his own without Michael or anyone's help.

infamita

Maybe the principles were dead, but who knows who they talked to, who know what Fredo said or might say to who, some night when he was drunk ? He might have been approached several times for similar deals that didn't go through, and people would certainly know there was a weak link in Michael's organization just by seeing Fredo get cut out of the business. People are nosy and run their mouths, that's why informants, rather than investigation, is how most organized crime figures get busted.

>And the Corleone were almost out of ilegal bussiness, it wasn't the old classic mafia shit anymore.

They're still having tons of people murdered though.

vito considered it a dirty business and destructive to the community. the family gained their power by performing favors and services rather than directly extorting money. it would've violated all his principles. also he said the police would not be tolerant of narcotics

Tldr: the Jew was behind it all

Vito's principles, such as they were, regarding the drug trade, consisted solely of the fact that it brought too much heat, as he said in the first movie.

Fredo fucked up, but he knew it and wasn't a threat anymore. Michael definitely went too far

You broke my heart

Should I watch Godfather 3? I thought 2 wrapped everything up quite nicely.

Don't. It's really terrible and doesn't even looks like it was also filmed by Coppola and also starred al Pacino. They both felt like different people.

Fredo was a pawn for Johnny Ola and Hyman Roth in Part 2

Fredo is too stupid to see the bigger picture

That's why he's passed over

Michael basically believes his stupidity was betrayal to the family

Michael realzies that its wrong in Part 3.

My understanding is the Fredo tried to fuck Michael in the ass twice.

It's a great movie, fuck you all