Hey, anyone up for a good Jesus discussion/debate? I feel like shooting the breeze about how to live...

Hey, anyone up for a good Jesus discussion/debate? I feel like shooting the breeze about how to live. (I'd ask that this be kept civil, but I'm pretty sure there's gonna be a least a few loudmouthed idiots here on both sides.)

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well to start i heard there aren't really any scriptures written about jesus during when the bible took place. i think perhaps the question is there god would be a better conversation starter. even broader than that, is there life after death

To know Jesus you need to study the hidden chapters of the bible which talk about his life in further depth, a lot of it is still unknown even then. Basically get into /jesusconspiracy/ shit (no it's not a real subshit afaik) but there's a ton of things unseen which add to the depth of the character. What you might not know is of this complexity, Jesus in the bible says the stories directly reflect his own life, not just the chapters written about his life but most of the stories in the bible overall. This is not actually a conspiracy bit, it just states that shit in there. Within that we can see that there's a bit of an oxymoron within the chapter and things said about Jesus as they are reflected upon many of the stories of the bible. What you can take from this is, take a story out of the bible and see which person you think Jesus was from it, and then decide if those stories and which character from a particular story you think he was makes any fucking sense at all. Let me know what you think about this, seriously, because I am too afraid of talking about it in public.

Well, whatever works. I'm just looking for a good talk.

Jesus was probably a bro. Like all celebrity stories blown way out of proportion which was kinda left escalating for 2000 years, but still. He was probably a bro

I don't know man. A lot of the Bible is a bit confusing. You've got all kinds of supposedly lost books (enter Gnosticism) and such that say that the story was way different than it really is, then you've got the Dead Sea scrolls which say that the Bible is okay, and was translated correctly...I don't know man. I just read the stories I have and try to be as good of a person as I can. I fail a lot though.

OP I demand a response, you lil shit.

Well, when you look at his teachings, I'd say he was more than a bro. Someone that in-tune with the Universe has something cool going on.

Well yeah but I'm working on the assumption that the stories were embellished, which they obviously were, to the point where they started transforming into these parables. I'm not a bible expert but I don't think there's a lot in there about any of his faults, i.e. if you look at it as a biography then it's obviously biased

>I'm pretty sure there's gonna be at least a few loudmouthed idiots here on both side.
>idiots here on both sides
>both sides

yup

Possibly, but like I said, you don't get that good with the flow of the Universe without knowing a thing or two.

But I want to hear your opinion on at lest this paradox, which maybe I should have stated more clearly. Jesus is the figure head of the religion yet within it and of taking stories from the bible as reflections of himself there is probably no way that he could have lived a life free of sin, other than every "good" in the bible being him and every "evil" being Satan, which if you study it doesn't actually make sense. Basically the paradox is that Jesus, or the character in the bible written as Jesus if true that the stories reflect his life then he must have sinned. So that Jesus was yet another allegory upon a life of a man who had many allegories written about him and prophesied about. You mentioned Gnosticism which is good because while the Bible gets into a genetic line of humans that gets even more so into trying to figure out genetic bloodlines of deities or demons whatever you wish to call these beings. Basically, all of humanity is playing a game of telephone (if you know it, basically hearsay) that has been going on about past deeds that they wish to still be true for so long that we're all on unconnected lines. This is just something to think about, but remember that within all of this, Christianity or even Gnosticism, Hermeticism, Paganism whatever the fuck you want there is a spiritual side of life, and an interconnected (within spirit to the physical) side of this world which has been sought after whether for control or worship for so many years that regardless of the full truth of any one of there there's an interconnected truth that binds them all.

For what it's worth, I'm not a practicing christian but I like him, or the idea of him or whatever. Christianity gets a lot of shit this day and age but if you get down to it there's some decent core values in the whole thing

>I don't think there's a lot in there about any of his faults

It would be considered heresy to claim that god in the flesh had any faults. Any faults he might have had would be considered 'good' traits because god is suppose to be all good. Anything he does/is has to, by definition, be good.

That included drowning a dudes pigs and burning down a fig tree. Oh, and genocide on multiple occasions.

Jesus was a good dude who had kids and lived as moral of a life as possible while questioning and rebelling against the establishment (i.e. the government and parasitic money changers). He can be viewed as a bodhisattva but most of the bible is pure fantasy.

yeah but the hand full a
of good stuff is swimming in a sea of some truly horrible shit, no religion is perfect but modern Christianity is a far cry from the barbarians who used to practice it

A few, but it stole those core values from older religions. The golden rule was around for a long, long time before Christianity. The only thing 'new' in the whole thing is monotheism. All the other concepts were around long before Christianity.

The Jesus of the Bible never existed, which is probably for the best given that he was kind of a cunt at times.

Yeah well that's the whole shit isn't it, the biggest problem isn't the religion it's the people practicing it
>inb4 islam is not a religion of peace
I'm not getting into that mess I don't know shit about islam and I don't really care

Is that important? If you live by good values who cares where they come from?

>Basically the paradox is that Jesus, or the character in the bible written as Jesus if true that the stories reflect his life then he must have sinned.
I'm a bit confused here, where does it state that he sinned/where do you think he sinned
>"good" in the bible being him and every "evil" being Satan, which if you study it doesn't actually make sense.
Evil isn't necessarily just "SATAN SATAN SATAN oh it's all the devil's fault!" I believe that innately, all humans carry a certain aspect of "good" and a certain aspect of "evil" in them. Jesus and Satan serve more as mediums...whispers, if you will, to focus you one way or another.
> there is a spiritual side of life, and an interconnected (within spirit to the physical) side of this world which has been sought after whether for control or worship for so many years that regardless of the full truth of any one of there there's an interconnected truth that binds them all.
I absolutely agree. I think that most religion is just people trying their hardest to pin down "God," which is an abstract concept. A book, a hymn, or an argument cannot in the least begin to touch on the greatness of something powerful and intelligent enough to create an entire Universe. I just think that Christianity is the most accurate belief out there, and that's why I follow it, but it still barely touches on the magnificence of a creature such as God.

Cool dude who was ahead of his time, btw is there any good documentaries about Jesus as historical person?

Or humans made of gods, spirits and demons to explain the world around them since they couldn't figure it out. Through tradition and child indoctrination the superstitions continued to propagate and spread, eventually leading people with some influence to create communities of like minded people who adhear to strict rules passed down by the spirits/gods, or so the person claimed.

If someone from the present time was sent back to the time when Jesus was supposedly around and we showed them the technology we had today, we'd be regarded as either a god or a demon.

Almost all historical scholars believe he existed, regardless of religious views you ignorant pleb.

>Is that important?

It is if people are accusing you of stealing morals from their religion. Or if they try to pressure into accepting more from said religion.

To me, it doesn't really matter. To others, it matters a lot. Ever heard of presuppositionalism? Fucking annoying shit.

You dumb nigger
A Jesus may have existed but the stories of him in the Bible are false. Also, since there is no evidence for him, scholars believing it probable doesn't mean he actually existed

Doctorate in History, btw
You need to relook at what historians who study that period actually say

When questioning whether Christianity is true, the first question you need ask is: why this specific religion? How is this religion different from any other? What makes it so special?
The answer, of course, is absolutely nothing. You don't need to believe in Christianity to believe in some sort of God or creator or higher power. There is literally only one reason people believe in Christianity: they were raised to. Nobody grows up an atheist and becomes a Christian.

Eh I guess you're right but I'm not too interested in discussing what other people do with their beliefs so to me, no, it's not important

Yeah, and in some ways we would be. You can't just interrupt time like that. The point of civilization is to go at pace, not to shoot ahead by thousands of years at a time. At any rate, you do bring up a good point, I believe that God is just the greatest scientist in existence, understanding things at levels that will always be unfathomable to human beings, and thus he is regarded as "magical" because we can't understand the logic behind how he functions.

>no evidence for him.
Historical documents and arrest records.
>Doctorate in history
Where the Hell did you go to school?

Not really man. I was given the choice. This just makes the most sense, God is the most "human" of all religious deities I know.

>Nobody grows up an atheist and becomes a Christian.
untrue

Wrong, there are none of those types of documents. There are no extra biblical accounts at all. Or you could provide them.

I went to Brown

he is petty, jealous, vengeful, intolerant and self centered, so yes he would be the most human

Fucking false. I grew up an atheist and now I'm basically an amalgamation of christianity and daoism

so are the Pantheon of all other religions. probably more so.

Why are Atheists so angry at God?

>I believe that God is just the greatest scientist in existence

Well if he did exist he would have to be. He is all knowing right? Wouldn't make sense that he wouldn't know about the universe and the natural laws considering he's suppose to have created it (despite the evidence showing the universe originated from a big bang event). However the universe god 'created' is shit to be blunt.

>understanding things at levels that will always be unfathomable to human beings

Why? Oh, right. Because your god didn't want us to understand.

>and thus he is regarded as "magical" because we can't understand the logic behind how he functions.

First off, we don't even have evidence he exists. If you can't show something exists of course you can't understand how it functions. And aren't you suppose to call him "miraculous"? Thought magic was banned in the bible, the whole "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" and all that. Not that I believe in magic mind.

Give me examples of this.

Fair enough mate.

Because most Atheist don't just "Not believe," they refute his existence as "unfair."

yeah. if they don't believe why do they hate Him

>I'm basically an amalgamation of christianity and daoism
First of all it's Taoism, so clearly you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Second, Taoism is an atheistic philosophy, not a religion, so that's like saying you're an amalgamation of Christianity and Confucianism.
You're obviously a kid who thinks he's deep and wise but in reality you're just naive.

We aren't angry at something that doesn't exist.
Are you angry at Farquad?

They aren't, that's just what religious people believe.

>I was given the choice. This just makes the most sense
If you weren't told growing up that Jesus and God were real, there's no way you would come to that conclusion as a free-thinking, intlligent adult.

There are no real Atheists, just Christians who have rejected the holy light because they are rebelious like children. I think it's probably because something bad happened to them.

>Historical documents and arrest records.

By that i think you mean

>the bible

The bible is not evidence that the bible is right. Or do you not know that? Considering the numerous contradictions I wouldn't trust anything it had to say regarding history, never mind when it came to spirituality.

Except all the Roman and Greek gods. They're far more human than the god of the bible is. Did you never read a book about the Greek gods? Zues, Hades, Athena? No? Go read one man. Good shit.

that's how the term greek tragedy began, with those crazy deities

Buddy, the common translation is taoism yeah, but the sound of the first letter in the original is actually somewhere between a 't' and a 'd'. Daoism is not an uncommon alternative and I just sort of got used to using it. Secondly, you can pull assumptions out of your ass about what you think I think all you want but it doesn't add much to whatever point you think you're making. I'm not a genius, and I fail at following my own beliefs every other day. But the point is, when it comes to the morality side of it, I can align myself really well with their way of thinking. That's all there is to it

>There are no real Atheists, just Christians who have rejected the holy light because they are rebelious like children
>thinks we would choose to burn in hell for all eternity if we believed it was real

Either you're retarded or...no, you're just retarded.

nice b8
Exactly. Once you start looking past the scientific and historical contradictions, the internal contradictions are hilarious. Even in the several centuries after the supposed events when people were putting the Bible together and deciding what to leave and what to omit, they didn't once bother to edit it.

> the universe originated from a big bang event
Oh, seriously? I had no idea. Of course, when I think about it, energy and matter can be created right? As per first law of Thermodynamics, right? Oh...oh wait, it's the opposite you blithering idiot. If there IS nothing there can BE nothing. Now, a "Big Bang" may have occurred, but something would have had to set it in motion.
>Your God didn't want us to understand.
No, that's not our job. We're supposed to live in what has been created and learn to love each other. We are not God, and we are meant to recognize his authority.
>Don't have evidence that He exists
Of course not. We also don't have evidence that TIME exists, do we?

...

If Jesus was real, would he have been happy or disappointed I'm the Crusades?

Fucking love those guys. Those are some gods I wish actually existed. Life would be way more interesting.

I don't angrily yell at people for believing in Bigfoot, but I've been beaten for my religion, called "ignorant," and persecuted in a lot of ways.

Lots of people have, and do every day, just like a lot of people drop out of the faith. That's like saying that because I never ate ham growing up I will never like ham.

I've read them. They were all angry at humans, constantly, slaughtering them without reason, even if you were on their "good side." Besides that, do you really think that that many powerful beings trying to work together wouldn't ultimately just try to kill each other off to become supreme?

There is evidence time exists, you fucking idiot. By the way, you cannot lecture on physics at the moment of the Big Bang because physics break down at that point. You haven't a clue what you're on about.

Well, believing in things that aren't proven or not examining the lack of evidence when it comes to religion is ignorant. I doubt you faced any real persecution if live in the U.S.

I believe Jesus is real, and it's unlikely God is fake since Jesus could walk on water and do all those miracles.
Besides, God or no God, Atheists usually have very poor understanding of morality, since Atheism doesn't teach anything beneficial like other religions. It's plainly obvious since Atheists are responsible for some of the worst genocides in history.

>ignores the existence of virtual particles

>Now, a "Big Bang" may have occurred, but something would have had to set it in motion.

Nothing could have set it in motion. There was no 'before' the big bang.

>We're supposed to live in what has been created and learn to love each other.

Except all those times your god wanted his followers to kill people. Other than that we're suppose to love each other.

>We are not God, and we are meant to recognize his authority.

by that of course you mean

>be his eternal self-imposed slaves

>Of course not. We also don't have evidence that TIME exists, do we?

The fact that we can accurately measure time and the effects gravity has on it means we don't know if it exists or not? Okay den.

correlation is not causation

Jesus raped me. It hurt.

They have killed each other off. Did you not hear about how Zeus came to power? Besides, they're family.

There's a little bit of Jesus in all of us. He came into you so you can spread his love unto other

Hitler was Christian
Most genocides were from religious men

Atheism has no morality. People generally follow the morals of their surroundings, not religious ones. Hitler was anti semitic due not only to Christian teachings in Europe at the time but also due to the anti Semitic climate of the period.

The government and your isp are monitoring your online activity ipanon.com

> By the way, you cannot lecture on physics at the moment of the Big Bang because physics break down at that point.
Then why bring it up? It's a moot point. Newtonian physics can only go so far, and proving/disproving God isn't in there. Also, time is a hotly debated concept in physics and it's said to be millions of different things, so effectively, we can't really say time exists or what in the Hell it is.
> I doubt you faced any real persecution if live in the U.S.
I've been beaten for it, I've been yelled at for it, and I've had authority figures treat me like crap for it.

what love?

He had no problem with slavery and his sermon on the mount was filled with immoral teachings.

...

Gr8 b8 m8. 8/8.
"I don't know how to argue logically so Christians are bad and dumb look at this genocide"

What? Time is clearly defined in physics. You just don't understand it

Also, this is clearly b8

...

i didn't say that dude . . .

Aaand the thread derailed right into shitsville. Well it was nice while it lasted, op

You might be on about a Jesus debate, but organized religion as a whole is just complete bullshit. As other OPs have mentioned, if you look at the history of humanity, religion is nothing more than a led humanistic guess to explain the unexplainable. Christianity actually did borrow a lot of it's parables from older religious texts and stories. The basic break down of most all religions is, we can't explain how a certain thing is happening, so let's chalk it up to something that is all powerful and all knowing. And, if some sort of view doesn't fall into our interpretation of how this raped text written and rewritten by hundreds of people over centuries, well they're missinterpreting things and going to hell.

>Big bang was a crappy argument anyway, we'll get nowhere here.

>God wanted his followers to kill people
Oh, you mean the guys that stole their land, raped their women, and used their carcasses as decoration? Jesus, wonder why they killed them...
>Eternal self imposed slave
>slave
>Without choice
>We have a choice, your argument has a huge hole in it.
>We can accurately measure time
We can measure what we perceive as time.

THIS IS NOW A SPIDERMAN THREAD!!!
THIS IS NOW A SPIDERMAN THREAD!!!

Yeah, and that's a crappy way to come to power. Furthermore, they ALL would kill each other, by nature.

Sorry, man.

humanistic?
Except for those who didn't belong to the tribe. They weren't humans and you could make them your slaves.

You say that as if it wasn't inevitable

Humanistic, as in, it's basic human nature to create answers to fill in the gaps for things we can't explain yet.

It happens to pretty much every thread.
>Welcome to Sup Forums

Who cares? Believing is essential. Belief makes us do everything we do. So why not be a good person, help others and the earth? If you believe in good then good will always prevail. Jesus is my homie.

Your saviour's story was plagiarised from the story of Horus.

Your religion is a scam designed to separate you from your cash and to wield control over you.

Hahaha, funny stuff. But
>Welcome to the internet
FTFY

I know. I meant it as sarcasm but it no work cause I'm drunk on the internet.

>welcome to life
FTFY

atheists are pretty dumb imho, since you can come to the truth with just a little logic. example:
If God isn't real, how can you have an opinion of him?
plus the athesits don't have any proof on their side either, they just worship at the altar of science

There is proof science works and Christians accept it, too. Even the last Pope, peace forever be upon his eternal soul.

You can have an opinion of Harry Potter and he exists.

This is actually correct. It doesn't matter why you're a good person. Just don't be a fucking douche. It's when people take it to the next level, and then decide that, well, you may be a good person, and do everything to help others, but you don't believe in Jesus, then fuck you and we have a problem, it becomes an issue. Yes, all the stories and things about Jesus and his totally tubular ways, I'm all about that. But why does religion even have to come into play to just not be a fucking asshole? In fact, the most devout Jesus believers are the least Jesus people. Oh, you're an awesome person, live an awesome life, but you don't go to church and believe in our fake deity? You know you're going to hell right? It's completely delusional and hypocritical.

Jesus didn't believe completely good things tho.
He was okay with slavery and even compared his followers to slaves.

>You know you're going to hell right?

You do realise that hell was introduced to us by sweet baby jesus in the NEW testament, right? And you don't need to be a mass-murderer to end up there. Ever worked on a sunday? You're going to hell.
Jesus. What a great guy.

I'm actually saying hell is a made up design.

Does it have to be about Jesus? Or just religion in general? Because I have a little present for atheists up my sleeve.

Lol. Please, by all means, enlighten us.

have you even read this threat?