Why do we need jobs...

Why do we need jobs? Why have we been convinced that if we do not work our lives away then we are degenerates within society? Why do people actually believe this?

Fuck working. Fuck all of it. Why should I contribute to a society that I hate. I don't even want money, or nice things. I don't want a car, a mortgage, job satisfaction, any of it, so what is the point in trying to fulfill other people's ambitions just so that I can struggle like everyone else?

Also general rage thread. What makes you angry about the world Sup Forums?

Other urls found in this thread:

strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/
evonomics.com/why-capitalism-creates-pointless-jobs-david-graeber/
bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q102.pdf
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

>What makes you angry about the world Sup Forums?

what makes me angry is that there are entitled anons who don't understand why we need jobs.

Go to Thailand and live on a beach.

>entitled anons
I work faggot, I just don't want to do it anymore.

I don't want anything from anyone, I am literally happy to live in a tent on the streets if it means breaking out of this depressive situation and abandoning all responsibilities.

What I am asking is why is there such a stigma associated with that kind of attitude?

Banksy?

You're literally posting this here only thanks to other people's work.

If you hate society so much (faggot), what the fuck do you care about stigmas? Go live on the street. You won't, you fucking pussy

If you're happy to do it then fucking do it. You're entitled because you're continuing to complain while spouting that you're fine with being a bum. If that were true you'd have done it by now. But you can't because you like taking advantage of having a place to live and technology to use. You want all the things without putting in the effort that others put in. You are entitled.

So either suck it up and stop being a bitch or go be homeless like you say you're fine with. Continuing to complain about it here serves less of a purpose than you claim working a job does.

Then find a job you enjoy, or at least find worth doing. Try giving back.

you can't expect to get things handed to you for free.

imagine if you had made something by hand, and there's a demand for it. you're going to want to trade it for something else want, because it's valuable and you spent the time making it.

same principal applies to jobs. folks need people to do things for them, they pay em. you're just trading them labor for resources.

in a broader sense, nobody's going to want to share with you (be it food, shelter, etc) if you don't help them out or have something they'd exchange it for

Don't worry m8, once full automation happens there won't be any jobs and the economy will have to change massively.
If you throw free unlimited clean and renewable energy into the mix you have a utopia

Humans existed for gorillions of years without working, humans were not made to work.

This... but I'm pretty sure op was b8

I agree, actually. I came from a well-off family, I was given a cushy position in our company, I invested well, and I retired at 25. I will never need to work again.

And you know what? People fucking hate me for it. They despise me for it. Because I don't have to work and they do. They call me a leech and an asshole and all kinds of other bullshit. Why? Because I was smarter than them and able to use the opportunities I was given to set myself up? The fact is, this attitude of hard work being virtuous is stupid. It's just a way for people to justify wasting their lives toiling in the dirt like a peasant. Hard work isn't virtuous, smart work is.

I don't see any problem with not working or contributing to society if you're able to provide for yourself in some other way. This is your life, you only get the one. Why should you waste it doing something that makes you hate being alive? That's foolish. If you can live the life you want to live without working, then fucking do it. Fuck society.

people from poor backgrounds don't have any opportunities to exploit you absolute nitwit

>Why? Because I was smarter than them and able to use the opportunities I was given to set myself up?

Having rich parents doesn't make you smarter you dumb Jew it just means by accident of Birth your parents are rich.

Most jobs dont really reproduce society, and those who do could mostly be automated anyway. Work will be obsolete in 15 years if we allow it

Well, I'd argue that if anything, the opposite is true. People used to need to work because if they didn't, they didn't eat. We used to need workers because every single worker counted. People needed shit. We needed every blacksmith we could get because carpenters needed hammers.

Now, we have factories that can crank out way more hammers than we'll ever need, so now workers are not as necessary. The paradigm has shifted from needing people to work because there were niches that needed filling, to needing to find a niche because people need to work. We don't need half the people working today, honestly. Do you need 10 cupcake shops in your town? Wouldn't you be just fine with 5 cupcake shops?

Everyone has opportunities. Some are just more obvious than others.

Did you miss the part where I invested my money? I wasn't, no would I have been, given anywhere near enough to retire on my own without investing.

See OP? The hate is real.

not sure, cant find the pic anywhere else

>still thinks im asking for free shit

This is my point exactly. We don't need to do shitty jobs because there are ways society could function without it, but we are brainwashed into thinking we do, because of:
This user fucking gets it. Wrote it better than I ever could have as well.

I have no problem with pulling my weight and helping out my community, but society at large an it's bogus ideals of 'work ethic' can fuck right off.

Are you one of those anarchy fags?
Kill yourself.

No one is talking about anarchy, they're just pointing out (correctly) that society really could function just as it does now with a fraction of the workers we have now.

Nobody wants to work fuckface. Find an easier way to make money, or go be a hobo. Nobody is forcing you to work or be a part of society unless you live In North Korea. Just don't think you are entitled to sleep and play vidya all day if you can't afford it yourself.

Hold on op, I'll blow your mind. I hope you're sitting down. The reason you have to work for money in order to live in our society is.....

Society doesn't function without people running it! If nobody farmed food and sold it for money, everyone would have to grow their own and there'd be no time for things like art or research and so on. If you don't like it you're free to go someplace else and grow your own food, try somewhere out in the boonies in Africa or South America.

And how are you going to decide who has to work and who doesn't?

>Everyone has opportunities. Some are just more obvious than others

Do you honestly believe that if everyone in the world made the most of their opportunities they could all be millionaires and retire at 25?

I hate people who make up outrageous shit on Sup Forums and expect us to believe it.

It is not hard to make a believable entertaining story

Not that user but;
The benevolent super AI will decide that.
Until then I just need free money so I can browse dank memes all day and eat snacks.

Fam, soon itll be like 15million merits in black mirror

Eventually everything will be entirely depending on power. We have food that is limitless, and super tvs and ultra facebook and shit, but we will need power, and with robots doing everything people do, people will become power

>Nobody is forcing you to work or be a part of society
If that were true, this thread wouldn't exist. Try again.

>Society doesn't function without people running it!
It would do, but fuck society anyway.

Why should anyone decide shit about anyone else?

Those that wish to work hard, can do, and will be rewarded for it generously.

Those that wish to not work a 'traditional job' should have the option to live a more community-based life.

I'm not saying everyone sits on their arses doing nothing all day, I am just sick of the whole 'if you don't work, you are scum' ideology that is fucking rampant throughout society.

It was a great episode but I think the idea of it being about power was very flawed.
It being about exercise for health reasons was the real reason. The AI forcing them to do it for their own good.

This article articulates that problem quite well strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/

The article won't display, just some screen about a new website coming, shame it sounded interesting.

'New magazine coming soon'
Fix this pls.

Ok try this link instead. Same article evonomics.com/why-capitalism-creates-pointless-jobs-david-graeber/

Cheers, will bookmark and read later.
The large chicken curry I just ate has made me tired so it's nap time, then game time, then food time, then tv time, then bedtime.
Sup Forums is constant.

What I don't get is why you guys think automation will make things easier or better for people in general.

The fully automated world you guys are talking about will either:

A. Be entirely owned by a handful of the world's richest people who won't need or want the rest of us around anymore, and will subsequently throw us the fuck out to live in medieval - like conditions or die.

or B. Be run by a superintelligent AI which - skynet? Terminator? Because OF COURSE that's what it would do. Not even a question.

That is true user. However there is a third option, the robots will becommonly owned in one way or the other, and the spoils shared. We have options between a future that looks like Robocop, Terminator or Star Trek.

...

The A scenario is already prevalent, except instead of being left to die they keep us physically alive but mentally dead, so that there is someone to consume their products and keep them in their positions of power.

If automation did take place, this scenario would change its means, but not its function.

You are correct. Except in the case of automation, we would no longer be necessary. Quite the opposite: we would be a useless drain on their resources, and thus promptly eliminated from their "world".

What makes you think this third option of yours exists as a possibility?

Here's the thing: the rich need us to buy shit or they're not rich anymore. So even if automation makes it so almost no one works, they would still need to find a way to make sure people are getting money so they could buy that new iPhone or whatever.

agree with you, jobs are for slaves

>What makes you think this third option of yours exists as a possibility?

It would certainly require pressure from large social movements that currently are in their infancy for robots to be transfered into common ownership, but its our only option. A similar approach would be a revitalized social democracy movement, with a new "new deal" type program

Social movements are only able to exert pressure on those who DON'T own a large robot army capable of mercilessly killing anyone their owner commands them to.

Why would they need money?

>Social movements are only able to exert pressure on those who DON'T own a large robot army capable of mercilessly killing anyone their owner commands them to.

Well obviously these changes need to happen before we reach that stage. don't be so quick to dismiss alternative futures, cynicism and apathy is what will bring your robot dystopia to life

>the millenial sound of emo (life remix)
Why do we need to live? Why have we been convinced that if we do not live our lives, then we are degenerates within society? Why do people actually believe this?

Fuck living. Fuck all of it. Why should I live in a society that I hate. I don't even want money, or nice things. I don't want a car, a mortgage, job satisfaction, any of it, so what is the point of living just so that I can struggle like everyone else trying to fulfill their ambitions ?

Also general emo thread. What makes you emo about the world Sup Forums?

>working = living
>t. wageslave

>Why would they need money?
They wouldn't, but what makes you think they need it now?

It's just more convenient for them to live in a world ruled by their own species, yet for them to have full control over said species.

The alternative goes against our very human nature, and even they are slaves to their biochemistry, just not their 'society'.

Correct on both counts. But all I'm doing is looking at the general direction in which society is headed. You say cynicism and apathy will bring about my robot dystopia? Well what kind of attitude is society currently bathing in?

you should buy a guitar an write gay little songs about how pointless life is and how anybody who doesn't agree is an conformist whore.

you could become my chemical romance 2.0

You're an idiot. You want food and a place to sleep. You probably can't make those yourself. If you can, go do it. But if not, it's easier to work a regular job anyway than make your own food and build and maintain your own home. Get to work and stop complaining. Be lucky you can get work; most countries in the world don't have plentiful jobs.

Ayy I just got back from my second trip to the job centre, first one was last week and just did the basic shit. So I go this week expecting an hour long meeting or something and all that happens is I sit there for 5 minutes, my work coach asks me what I did the past week so I tell her about my jobsearch and jobs I've applied for. All she does is say "Ok see you next Tuesday." Like wtf? She didn't even check the forms she asked me to fill out the week before, she didn't check my online job account, she didn't do fuck all? Fucking civil service workers are useless.

>You say cynicism and apathy will bring about my robot dystopia? Well what kind of attitude is society currently bathing in?

Exactly that kind. Which is why imagining an alternative future is the most radical act in our current condition

Utopia doesn't pay well or it would already be here. It's not like we're really lacking in technology or ability.

I'd suggest moving to Switzerland where your attitude is not as much in the minority. They're trying to pass legislation so that everyone is paid money, in the form of a basic low level income so then they can be artists or musicians or just to better themselves as people.

I wish they'd take UKish eurofags. It's like a country of Burning Man.

Or just one motherfucking Starbucks per square mile. I've walked down roads that have a Starbucks opposite each other on the same road. Insanity. They're literally just places to put people. They're not necessary jobs at all.

Yeah have a lot of stories from "job" centers as well.
>be at job center
>have to apply for a certain number of jobs a month to get your welfare moneys
>2nd month i land a part time job so i stop applying for as many jobs as I did the 1st month
>recieve warning by supervisor
>"user you did not apply for enough jobs this month, do that again and your welfare gets reduced"
>me: but wtf i applied for a job and got it, what more do i have to do?
>him: "apply for more jobs"
>me: is there a minimum amount of jobs i have to apply for each month, how many?
>him: ...
turns out he was just bullshitting, there was no minimum amount, and there was no way he could check if i actually applied for the jobs i said i did. even applied for the most ridicilous shit like director of sales

>hey guys I didn't read the thread

Seriously considering quitting my job right fucking now, but signing on is part of their plan as well so that they can keep track of you, make sure you are working the jobs they want you to work.

This shit sounds like some conspiracy nut's scrapbook, but it is literally true, they even admit it themselves.

Black mirror scares the shit out of me sometimes. Especially the video walled cubicle with the exercise bikes. That one is just around the corner. I can see it waving at me.

As always people hate what they can't have.

You can't spend your entire life watching anime you faggot. You need to be productive in one way or another.

This is exactly the type of delusional logic op has. Shut the fuck you trust fund bitch, you were born into a wealthy family and got a fucking job in your FAMILY'S company. The fact that you can't see your not any smarter than a normal person, you were born into wealth by accident proves you're a stupid fuck. You're not special, you're a spoiled little piece of shit.

Well he's shitposting on Sup Forums so in fact he's productive by increasing 4chans stock value

Not him, but he wasn't kidding, the hate really is real.

The fact that you get so annoyed about it is the exact kind of brainwashing that OP is talking about.

We dont need jobs. Your nation is in trillions of whatever currency in DEBT. No one in the western nations have worked a day since about 1972.

If you go to work and by the time you come home, your national debt is higher - YOU HAVEN'T WORKED.

Your nation and all nations arent sticking to a budget. They can print all the "money" they need. Which makes money literally WORTHLESS.

Thats a pretty shit definition of work: "any action that reduces government debt". So then a a debt write off would be worth a tremendous amount of work or what? Still it doesnt matter because government debt is not a problem, private debt is

All money IS debt. If your nation want to print a banknote, it goes into debt to the value of that banknote. All debt comes from your central bank.

My definition of work is anything that increases value. So if you make a product - you are creating value. But if you sell that product for you national currency, so are valuing that item as nothing. In fact a minus number.

We have to work and contribute VALUE to our respective nations. If we work and create a debt, we arent working.

>government debt is not a problem
government debt is a massive problem. Its a mathematical certainty that the economy will fail due to excessive gov debt. Also gov seem to think its perfectly lawful to pass on this debt to generations that havent been born yet, which will mean a devalued currency for them. Inheriting the national debt means your currency has less worth the more currency is printed.

We are all enslaved by money. We need to abolish money ASAP.

Dat filename makes me happy
Actually on the dole, making more money than i normally would if i did work.
No travel expenses, petrol, car expenses, no food to pay for etc...
Life's good Sup Forumsros

Trading skills should be the "currency"

>aking more money than i normally would if i did work
How do you do this?
I work self employed and some months I dont get work, so knowing how you do this would be really handy. Im in the UK btw.

>All money IS debt.
Sure
>If your nation want to print a banknote, it goes into debt to the value of that banknote. All debt comes from your central bank.
But most money is created by private banks when they issue loans, albeit in credit form
>My definition of work is anything that increases value
Okay, what is your definition of value then?
Because commodity production creates surplus value though the exploitation of the workers, even if that value i realized through fantasy money it still increases the capital owners capital
>Its a mathematical certainty that the economy will fail due to excessive gov debt.
Ha! According to who, economists?

Your work contributes to society. Other peoples' work contributes to society. If you don't work, you aren't contributing while others continue to. If nobody worked, society would regress. The people who are working are now working as a collective to maintain your lifestyle (if your country has social welfare), whereas you are doing nothing for yourself or anyone else. You can leave this system if you wish. If you are unhappy about the fact the people will look down on you for not working you can go off the grid and support yourself. But, that requires work. Now if you don't work you will die.

Fact is, it takes a lot to keep a person alive. A lot of work. You can stop working and accept people will look at you for the failure you are. You can live outside of society and support yourself. And if you really aren't comfortable with any of those options, you can allways kill yourself.

Which one is it gonna be?

I lived in the UK for 10y I know how the system works there.
You don't get taxed weekly/monthly in case you're out of work.
In frogland, you do pay "dole taxes";
Therefore when you're out of work, what taxes you paid for the unemployed at the time you were working eventually get back to you, thanks to the people working and it goes 'round and 'round.

>created by private banks when they issue loans, albeit in credit form
"Private" banks make loans and allow new currency to be circulated. They get the new currency from the Central Bank. If these "private" banks become insolvent, they get bailed out (as in 2008) so they are not private at all. They are totally state supported.
>definition of value
something of worth / usefulness / rareity. a "plus" item not a minus item. surplus not debt.
>realized through fantasy money it still increases the capital owners capital
"Money" is not capital. debt is not capital. Money is debt.
>According to who, economists?
According to reality. All money is borrowed, from the central bank, at interest. The interest has compounded to the extent that all taxes goes to pay off the interest, not the pricipal and any more thats needed is simply borrowed into existence by the gov. They call this "groth" but its really growth of debt. Our nations have debt bubbles. Currency bubbles and all bubbles burst

>Private" banks make loans and allow new currency to be circulated. They get the new currency from the Central Bank
Nope. They create it with the click of a button. Can't reply to the rest of your post, have to bail for math class

Everytime, anyone of us get paid into a bank/checking account, whatever you call it, we should withdraw the whole lot and only use cash.
Fuck credit cards, checks, direct debits etc
Most banks would be well pissed off and would crumble, the cunts are making money on our back

Sorry for the punctuation, my bank made me do it

>Fact is, it takes a lot to keep a person alive. A lot of work
Wrong.
It takes the exact same things it takes any biological organism to survive. Sleep, sunlight, nutrition and fluids.

Yet my neighbors cat doesn't work a 9 to 5, nor do the wild foxes that roam the streets of a night. They pull their weight, sure, but nobody gives a shit how or why.

I can get these things (food etc.) without needing to contribute to a bogus construct (society), and also without leeching from 'the pot', as it were.

But then you literally get investigated because they want to know how you are supporting yourself. If you think you can just go off the grid like that then you are delusional. You accept their way or you live in absolute poverty.

I wish your post was true though, it sounds like an ideal reality to simply disappear and not have people come looking for you.

Reeeeeeeeeee
That user gotz it
Grumpy cat smilez

My point was, it takes someone to do the work to keep you going. The food won't grow itself. The water doesn't flow to your house off its own back.

I know people who have gone off grid. They've been at it for over 11 years now and manage mostly fine. They pay minimal taxes, but are able to do that by selling excess produce to locals. They worked and saved for several years to get to that point but you've gotta take the rough with the smooth as with all things. I think you're all about the smooth though.

>off grid
>paying taxes
Now I see what you meant. You are not delusional, you just don't understand the term 'off-grid'.

>I think you're all about the smooth though.
Damn right. I prioritize my happiness and the happiness of those I care about above all else (except basic survival of course). Guess that makes me an arsehole...

At least it doesn't make me a slave.

Not the user you answered to but,
DAMAGE CONTROL
DAMAGE CONTROL
We're about to buuuuuuuuuuuuuuurn!!!!

>definition of value
>something of worth / usefulness / rareity. a "plus" item not a minus item. surplus not debt.
So anything that reproduces human being then. What has government debt to do with this?
>realized through fantasy money it still increases the capital owners capital
>"Money" is not capital. debt is not capital. Money is debt.
Capital is resources invested to create more capital
>According to who, economists?
>According to reality. All money is borrowed, from the central bank, at interest. The interest has compounded to the extent that all taxes goes to pay off the interest, not the pricipal and any more thats needed is simply borrowed into existence by the gov. They call this "groth" but its really growth of debt. Our nations have debt bubbles. Currency bubbles and all bubbles burst
Like I said most money is created by commercial banks making loans
bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q102.pdf

...

ebin xD

Back to Sup Forums everyone!
It's Sup Forums no one gives a shit!!!!!

...

Life must be so hard.. you should move to afghanistan in search of a better life.

Doesn't make you an arsehole imo. You've just gotta accept that people will be unhappy with your choice, which is what your complaints about being jobless boils down to.

As for 'being off the grid', the term came from being off of the electrical grid. It's usually used to decribe living self sufficiently and without the help of public services. Unfortunately you still have to be a citizen and live under a government's rule. Shall we start a debate about anarchy now because you don't want a job?

Herrro?

luckily you elected president cheeto and all those social programs you use to subsist are gone

herro der fwend

Ree rin rookin fol husband you wan?

oh shit Sup Forums has actually arrived.
Abandon thread.

Ror
Rmfao
Tank yu

Ree guna buy arcohol, yu want?

Oh wow I can't wait to have severely mentally ill teens yell about jews and flouride. I was getting bored of our interesting discussion about value creation, automation and utopia.

>thanks to other peoples work
that user pays for with the proxy for value that we call currency
fuck off with your reliance bullshit
user already said they'd be fine on the street in a tent and I don't know many literal streets with internet access and power
You're also implying that posting here is a positive action and that this place isn't hell incarnate, degrading your mental state chip by chip.

sure, if you can replace it with something that can keep the rest of society stable the most after abolishing something that's kept it so for a couple millenia