>tfw Mahler could have been happy, had he been tall >tfw a tall, satisfied Mahler would have not written those magnificent symphonies
Manlethood is basically a pact with the devil: your happiness exchanged for the ambition necessary to reach the highest peaks of art.
Xavier Harris
>Rachmaninoff was a tall lanklet >wrote music that was basically just hackwork Makes you think
Bentley Moore
To be fair, anyone who stood next to Klemperer kinda looked like a manlet.
Adrian Bell
>tfw you will never play under Klemperer's baton as he intimidates you with his sheer virility into denying your HIP inclinations and playing the St Matthew Passion as though it were Mahler. jdimsa
Is there anything greater or more beautiful than Tristan und Isolde?
Robert Bell
Beethoven's late sonatas
Christopher Parker
>Liszt is a lanklet >Rachmaninoff is a lanklet >Prokofiev is a lanklet >Dvorak was fairly tall
>they were all shit composers
Is ther a single tall decent composer in the Western canon? I'm pretty sure there isn't.
Pic related: a guy that fueled his genius by his sheer manlethood
Jordan Jenkins
liszt, prokofiev, and dvorak are good, though
Jordan Murphy
>he actually believe this
Your lack of taste is both comic and tragic.
Christopher Bennett
ok
Oliver Bennett
Dvorak is good, Prokofiev has his moments.
Liam Russell
>Liszt was shit >Prokofiev was shit Bad opinions They are exceptions which prove the rule
Jordan Bennett
>muh arpeggios in fortissimo and fast octaves >muh violent staccatos
Colton Allen
bach
Dominic Price
Mention your favourites please.
Lincoln Johnson
Bach, Rameau and Beethoven.
Not confirmed.
Robert Torres
Liszt's virtuosity does not "compensate" for a lack of compositional craftsmanship but is rather another tool he uses. Dismissing all Liszt as flashy virtuosity because you've only listened to a couple of the Hungarian Rhapsodies is a bad position to take.
I don't rate Prokofiev as highly as Liszt, but he's still a magnificent composer, from his piano concerti (no. 2 manages to synthesise the Russian romantic tradition with his own more angular, modern musical language) to his operas, which are woefully underperformed.
Sounds like you're angling for an ad hominem. I'll not give you the satisfaction
All right, there's not much that you like then. Could you answer this question as well:
Cameron Foster
Clearly not, there is proof.
Brayden Flores
>All right, there's not much that you like then.
You asked for my favourites, was I supposed to start listing every composer I've appreciated in my lifetime?
>Could you answer this question as well
I can't offer alternatives, Tristan und Isolde is my favourite opera in the Western canon.
Daniel Thompson
>posts Ravel >calls Liszt shit
Ravel would bitch slap you so hard
Robert Hall
Parsifal, Pelleas and From the House the Dead
Equal to or just as good, but Tristan is like a world ending and new beginning
Chase Ross
>If I can't be as tall as a mountain, I'll climb a metaphorical one and crown myself king
Truly, manlethood is both a blessing and a curse
Grayson Rogers
>tfw you play in a minor key in an andante - grave tempo and half way in switch to the relative major in the same tempo, and then finish off with a picardy 3rd
Nathan Cox
>I can't offer alternatives, Tristan und Isolde is my favourite opera in the Western canon. Me too, I always cry like a little baby at least twice during the opera. Was hoping to find something at the same level, doesn't have to be opera, but unfortunately chances aren't high indeed. Favourite recording? Mine is definitely Karajan's 1972. Sound quality is definitely flawed (really hate this) and conducting at places has been better, but Vickers IS Tristan, destroying everyone else including Melchior and every other recording by a LONG shot. Imo Dernesch surpasses every other Isolde as well, and I get the criticism how Vickers is too dominant in comparison to her, suggesting that a stronger singer, e.g. Nilsson, would be more appropriate. I don't agree. Dernesch is beautiful and intelligent singer and she plays the role perfectly, not as steely as Nilsson for example. Everyone is fantastic actually.
Nolan Howard
How about listening to contemporary classical music you literal faggot?
James Clark
who says we don't?
Ethan Ramirez
>the ending of Cunning Little Vixen I cri evrytiem
Dominic Reyes
>and every other recording by a LONG shot. kinda doubt you've heard every recording of the piece
Mason Nelson
The Karajan recording is very love-hate, no-one seems to have an ambivalent reaction to it. Vickers' Tristan is unique, but I'm not sure it's my personal favourite.
Oliver Hill
the biggest problem is really the recorded sound, ditto with all of Karajan's Wagner.
not sure what's worse -- the Bayreuth acoustic, or Karajan's incredibly gimmicky sound quality
Nicholas Jackson
Truly one of the GOATs
David Scott
Obviously not every recording but I've heard a lot. Who's a better Tristan? Windgassen is a terrible Tristan, a much better Siegfried (but his sense of timing is often unbelievably off), Melchior is beautiful but unintelligent, Suthaus' performance(s) are great for his doing, Vinay, Treptow and Lorenz are convincing, but Vickers' virtuosity is unparallelled and it's perfect for the role (it's less effective for Siegmund for example).
Jacob Hughes
So far I've listened only to piano and chamber music (mainly string quartets/quintets and from time to time certain specific piano concertos I like a lot): how do I get into symphonic music?
Long pieces are still smowhat hard for me to assimilate (notice that I turned from Sup Forumscore albums to classical music only 2 months ago, so my attention span is still somewhat stunted: at first I used to find difficult to listen to the same piece for more than 4 minutes, now I can listen to for 10 to 20 minutes without feeling any kind of fatigue), so symphonies and especially operas are somewhat hard to endure in one sitting.
Any advice from people who came from the same place, managing to overcome these difficulties?
Try some of Beethoven's shorter symphonies. The 1st and 8th both come in around 25 minutes in a typical performace. If you're talking about getting into Mahler, or any of the other "epic" symphonists like Bruckner, as a newcomer to their work I found it helpful to just dive in, let it play, and do other things. Your mind will wander back to the music from time to time and you'll pick up on things that will help you to follow the music better on subsequent listens.
Repetition is key, by listening to the same work multiple times you pick up on the structure and are able to better follow the music. It's like when you go somewhere new for the first time and the journey seems to take forever, but the second time it's faster because you know the route, and so on with the third and fourth and nth times.
Luke Sullivan
sorry, I didn't mean to make it seem like I was getting caught up in semantics.
>Who's a better Tristan? well, Vickers is very good no doubt, definitely top 10, but I'd still give Max the edge. Vickers always had a bit too much croon for my tastes, and Max is the king of drama for me (or ham, as some my put it). no one else quite captures the charisma and necessary theatrical ability of a heldentenor like he can, and his diction is simply perfect. though it's a shame we don't have any recordings (which are listenable, anyway) from Lorenz's prime (30s). still, that recording with Heger from the 40s shows him in relatively good form, even if someone like Vicker's was his technical superior in comparison (though I must admit that technicality at such a high-tier of signing begins to have diminishing returns, in my opinion.)
Brody Hernandez
Also: Kollo is good but not special. The best thing the recording has going for it is the good conducting and great sound quality.
The sound quality is indeed awful, and I really hate that. One thing that is that, while everything else sounds bad, sforzandoss are impressive, and so are the several near-climaxes and final climax.
The transcendent quality, or phantasmagoria as Adorno calls it, is fundamental to Wagner's music and nowhere more captured than in Tristan und Isolde. Vickers, who doesn't just tick the boxes gives a good (or great) performance, dissolves into the role (he really becomes mad like Tristan), he is incredibly dynamic and creative, he responds to the music and the scene, etc., all of which heighten that sense of phantasmagoria. Vickers' approach pays off in the role of Tristan.
But I can understand why people don't like it as he's barking and deviating a lot.
Dominic Taylor
>Beethoven Also, the 4th and 5th symphonies are not that much longer, around 30-35 minutes on average.
Robert White
How do I into anyting that isn't Beethoven? I know next to nothing about classical music except Beethoven's symphonies, concertos and piano sonatas which I absolutely love. The reason for this was that I used to take out music from my local library and rip the CDs, and the only good stuff they had was largely Beethoven works (must have had a big donation). I then moved onto other types of music without ever expanding my classical range. I like Mozart's 3rd Violin Concerto and Schubert's Winterreise but otherwise that's it.
What should I listen to for something completely different but exciting enough to hold my interest?
Kayden Wilson
madness and terrible sound quality are two things that Lorenz and Vicker's definitely have in common in their recordings
there is a [live] recording with Karajan and Vickers on operadepot, I believe... as well as his entire Ring. sound quality may or may not be preferable - there are more than a few cases where live Karajan sounds significantly better than studio Karajan.
Nicholas Robinson
Hmm yes, Lorenz is definitely one of the best and you made a good case. Vickers' diction is indeed not his strongest point, especially his ö, he literally cannot pronounce that ever, but what you get in return for that role is some transcendent shit. Also Dernesch is really good, and I haven't found a good Isolde accompanying Lorenz. As a result they don't merge (into the music), but rather sounds like they're performing separately, each to their own and removed from each other.
Luke Turner
A little off-topic but for good sound quality classical I hugely recommend Stephen Kovacevich's Beethoven sonata recordings. I'd been listening to Barenboim's for years but after upgrading my headphones I noticed how shit they sounded and looked elsewhere. Stephen Kovacevich's are flawless (and he plays beautifully too), can't recommend them highly enough.
Leo Green
idk Mahler probably, he is the only one to write choral symphonies (No. 2 and No. 8) that can stand alongside Beethoven's 9th.
Adrian Martinez
I don't know, I think Buchner is a pretty good Isolde. she sounds batty, but I think it fits the character. she's not as feminine and floaty as Flagstad (I might suggest that Flagstad showed a frequency of being detached from her roles) but she nails the corporeal anger and lust that I think Wagner was going for that role.
but, honestly, when you talk about the greats of singing performance, it mostly comes down to your personal preferences in regards to certain nuances, and, as such, I don't think there's too much of a conversation to be had in regards to this. they're all great singers.
I'd take literally anyone from that 'golden era' of singing over those I've heard at the MET or at Bayreuth in the past decade...
Leo Watson
Ideally looking for instrumental only. I love the 9th Symphony but I still prefer the 6th and 7th.
Colton Hill
>terrible sound quality are two things that Lorenz and Vicker's definitely have in common in their recordings It's not fair I tell you...
>there is a [live] recording with Karajan and Vickers on operadepot, I believe... as well as his entire Ring. sound quality may or may not be preferable - there are more than a few cases where live Karajan sounds significantly better than studio Karajan. Yes you're right and I agree, but imo Dernesch sounds overall weaker on that unfortunately, safer and more stale. They're both great but have each a few cons. Sounds weird saying that because it's still the most beautiful and profound thing I've ever heard, even though I can acknowledge some cons (largely due to sound quality though).
The rest of Mahler's symphonies are great too. Although he includes sung movements in No. 3 and 4 as well. The 5th, 6th, 7th, and 9th are pure instrumental.
For other symphonists there's always Schubert, Brahms, Bruckner, even Strauss.
Jose James
Ok cheers, will try Bruckner. Have tried some Mahler before but didn't get very far with it.
Anything relatively modern (at least 20th century) I might immediately like?
Asher Evans
Schoenberg's Verklarte Nacht Stravinsky's Firebird Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe
Kevin Russell
For these Mahler (and others if you can be arsed) are there any particular conductors to avoid or seek out? I've been extremely impressed with Claudio Abbado's Beethoven symphonies so I was going to try him for Mahler. I listen to music through Tidal which is surprisingly good for classical so I've got a fair bit of choice.
Aaron Walker
>but she nails the corporeal anger and lust that I think Wagner was going for that role. Ah yes, I had Baumann more in my mind. Büchner is strong and what I wrote about the separation is far less is much less applicable to her. That sound quality makes me sad though because it's a truly great performance.
>but, honestly, when you talk about the greats of singing performance, it mostly comes down to your personal preferences in regards to certain nuances, and, as such, I don't think there's too much of a conversation to be had in regards to this. they're all great singers. Absolutely, which is why I understand the critique of Vickers. His case, because of the deviations and creativity, is very strong though, but you can attack him based on valid criteria as well.
>I'd take literally anyone from that 'golden era' of singing over those I've heard at the MET or at Bayreuth in the past decade... [spoiler]don't[/spoiler] check out this abomination youtube.com/watch?v=MUeQn4TOyck
Gavin Wood
Abbado's fine. Maybe not my personal top-drawer for Mahler, but you shouldn't be overly focused on which recordings to listen to for your first exposure. Recording autism comes after you're familiar with the composition, in my opinion.
Parker Wright
Abbado is a good solid set not too amazing but not too terrible either, if you already like him stick with him. You can turn in to an annoying, highly selective mahler faggot later.
Nolan Myers
Fair point, cheers.
Ryder Russell
I can see that but there's no reason not to start with one of the best, if you know where to look
Jace Gray
Yeahhhhh, but there's no *one* conductor that does justice to every work in any composer's oeuvre, and, when it comes to my own personal favorites, one has to make compromises with audio quality and such, so I think slamming people with, like, 8 different conductors with varying audio quality and playing styles is a bit much at first. Especially when I think one can only appreciate the "best" aspects of those conductors when one has a more "straight-laced" recording as a reference. And Abbado's pretty good for that.
But that's just my personal approach.
Ethan Butler
I definitely see where you're coming from. A lot of people would quite fairly recommend Karajan for Beethoven and he's a great introduction, but there's definitely better out there once you find individual symphonies that you prefer and you're prepared to listen to several recordings (although I'd argue you'd struggle to find a better 9th Symphony recording than Karajan/Berlin Philharmonic).
my personal approach is, pick two or three of the top recommended (or if it's a performer like Perahia or a composer like Klemperer just go with that) and then listen to them until I prefer one over the other. Keep both in my music folder, prune one from my library. Does that make me patrish? rhetorical question :P
John Williams
Abbado is fine. Always go with a name you trust, although in Mahler's case it's rare to have conductors who can pull off a good survey of the entire set. Even Walter and Klemperer, who knew and worked with Mahler, chose to only record a few symphonies while avoiding ones they didn't feel they understood very well.
Jeremiah Sanchez
I've listened to the Furtwangler's and, aside from audio quality, don't see how it can be topped. Audio quality is big tho
Kevin Sanders
>(or if it's a performer like Perahia or a composer like Klemperer just go with that)
I saw Perahia in Glasgow a few years ago playing Bach. I was going through a rough patch and got stoned before it (as I got stoned every fucking day), seriously regret that as I can barely remember anything about it other than intense paranoia.
Evan Walker
Listening to Mahler's first symphony for the first time. Just got to the third movement - what the fuck, did I just hear Frère Jacques briefly!?
James Ortiz
Yeah, the theme is based on Frère Jacques/Bruder Martin.
Aiden Sullivan
Glad to know I'm not going mad. Certainly didn't expect to find myself singing along in French to a symphony (I am enjoying it a lot by the way).
Jack Gonzalez
Mahler will often take you by surprise like that. I have been listening to his music for probably the best part of a decade now and I am still finding new things, especially in the middle and late symphonies.
Studying his scores is a treat, I'd say that without either a analytical study of them or the ability of transcribing in your head the music while listening to it, you will miss 99% of what he tried to convey: what emerges from them is a unsormontable genius.
Sebastian Cruz
Barenboim, kissing and gilels are my favorites at playing beethoven's sonatas, who else should i check out? Do someone with the understanding of barenboim, the accuracy of kissin and the bite of gilels exist
Logan Thomas
See:
I don't think you'll be disappointed.
Leo Flores
Arrau
Samuel Fisher
Kempff
Jordan Perry
>Kempff >bite
Zachary Hall
What type of music does Koichi Sugiyama make? I'd like to find more like it.
>The [Minnesota] Orchestra will record Mahler’s Second this season. Based Vanska is coming out with a Mahler recording soon enough. Though there are hundreds of good Mahler 2s already.
Charles Gutierrez
>be me >start playing piano 1 month ago >tfw encountered today for the first time poliphony (youtube.com/watch?v=OpbDKmXVKnY , the small canon at 0.34) >tfw nothing in my life has been as satisfying as me managing to balance all the voices
The adrenaline was immense, the experience was borderline addicting. Is it so crazy to pick piano at 19 with the intention of becoming a virtuoso? Because I can see myself spending days, locked in my room, practicing repertoire, scales and etudes all day long. It seems a dignified way to spend your NEEThood on this planet.
Am I set for failure?
Brody Moore
Alas, Petzold.
Xavier Morgan
''if you post anime reaction pics you will get banned'' What did you mean by this?
Isaiah Bennett
>I don't rate Prokofiev as highly as Liszt, but he's still a magnificent composer, from his piano concerti (no. 2 manages to synthesise the Russian romantic tradition with his own more angular, modern musical language) to his operas, which are woefully underperformed.
Lt. Kije isn't performed nearly as much with the classical singing it was written for either.
Gavin Collins
Lurk moar. John Adams, Arvo Part and Steve Reich get tons of appreciation here.
Henry Rodriguez
Try Mozart's 23rd Piano Concerto and Weill's string quartet.
Jack Young
The top line is a melody by Dvorak from one of his Humoresques. The bottom line is a variation of it I made. I want to use it, but do you think it's still too similar or is different enough?
