'I don't want to pay for anyone else! I only care about MEEEEEEEE'

>'I don't want to pay for anyone else! I only care about MEEEEEEEE'
This is why your society is shit, America

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba
qz.com/894362/america-has-been-downgraded-to-a-flawed-democracy-but-not-because-of-trump-economist-intelligence-unit-says/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

If you cannot look after yourself its impossible to look out for others.

But the majority can look after themselves, so does that mean the whole system is pointless just because

Sorry to burst your bubble but every scientific study done in the past 10 years has shown that survival rates for cancer and most any other terminal illness is more than double in the US when compared to countries with nationalized anything, right? Our society is provably "better" and more effective the way we're doing things when compared to any Euro, Asian, SA country.

USA is a fucking third world country

>>every scientific study
sauce?
>>survival rates
for who? those who can afford the best care presumably?

you didn't answer OPs question, maybe it is because you were busy bending the knee to capitalism?

Not bending a knee to anything, just stating facts pal. Studies look at all demographics not just the people who "can afford the super-duper premium healthcare package." Maybe stop waiting around for someone to give you something free or complain about how someone has more than you and go out and get it yourself. Just an idea but I'm sure that flies over you faggot NEET's little heads.

If you can't provide for your own basic survival (not that difficult really) then give us a logical reason why other people should pay to keep you around since your very existence is a net negative to society as a whole. That's the real question. I'll wait. I'd love to hear how that makes any rational sense that isn't based on pulling heartstrings and relying on nothing but emotion and tossing rationale to the wind.

Not all of us feel that way. Some of us know that cooperatation is more important than competition.

A healthy society is good for everyone

What facts have you stated?

Glad you think so. Now fuck off socialist faggot.

More like I don't want to die using the NHS.

Anything free is worth what you pay for it.

Britbong is full of paedos. Pic related its Paul the Britbong Paedo.

It has more to do with lining the pockets of insurance providers than the selfishness of individual citizens. I'm typically quite conservative, but I do believe the entire US health insurance industry should be nationalized and premiums determined by income level.

This ^

Honestly why the fuck dont they just sort themselves out? just make something already, your basically paying to be alive but you dont do your selves favours by eating fucking family sized portions and driving everywhere.

A "healthy society" isn't contingent on keeping a few people who can't afford healthcare alive on someone else's dime. You still can't answer the question without vague bullshit and that's the heart of the issue. There IS no logical reason, it's all smoke, mirrors, and feelings so don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

the NHS *costs* about the same as other Western European systems,

you *pay* through NI contributions

it is *free* at the point of demand

Our niggers are substantially better than yours though.

>better
>niggers
Pick one faggot.

...

answer what question?

I have a reasonably high paying job with "good insurance". Which costs me $400 per month and doesn't pay jack shit for many things until I hit a $1,300 individual deductible.

Sign me up for single payer.

This is the problem with America's politics. We let a really small minority of freeloaders (who will always be freeloaders under any system) totally dictate what we do and don't provide for everyone who does work. It's retarded.

>Pick one
Yeah...thats how things work. In any catergory there will be a better and worse. How did you make it through the capatcha?

He's probably dumb enough to buy a pass tbh.

>If you can't provide for your own basic survival (not that difficult really) then give us a logical reason why other people should pay to keep you around since your very existence is a net negative to society as a whole. That's the real question.

For the second time. And again, a "healthy society" isn't contingent on others paying for someone who can't pull their own weight. If anything, a society is healthier when those people are weeded out because the entire system runs more efficiently on a unit-to-unit basis.

If johnny-gas-station-clerk dies because he can't afford health insurance, it's not a loss at all to a "healthy society" and let's not pretend it is because you're only blowing smoke up your own ass. If you don't have any skills/knowledge/talents to contribute to everyone else then don't expect total strangers to give a shit about you. That's about as logical as a heart surgeon and a mcdonalds employee agreeing to pay 10% of their income on a shared house. It's unbalanced and makes no sense whatsoever on top of being completely unfair

The US has normal enough policies for fire departments, police departments, roads etc.. I don't know why you guys go full retard when it comes to healthcare.

Some people are going to be a drain on the system - just like with any other government service - but, believe me, the average person's life is improved so much when they don't have to worry about being bankrupt if they get cancer or losing healthcare if they lose their job.

By being selfish and greedy you are playing into the hands of the people who you should really be angry at: not those poorer than you but those at the top like the insurers and corrupt politicians who gain the most from this broken system.

If not for them, you would pay less overall while getting the same or better level or service and subsidising the people who now can't pay. Rather than these people not being worthy of living as seems to think, they are simply victims of the capitalist model whereby companies try to maximise revenue and if literally everyone can afford something, then they aren't charging enough. It's a similar concept to the myth of zero unemployment

>a "healthy society" isn't contingent on others paying for someone who can't pull their own weight. If anything, a society is healthier when those people are weeded out because the entire system runs more efficiently on a unit-to-unit basis.

I take it you didn't study anything like John Snow/ Broad Street cholera outbreak at school then?

The problem with your train of thought is that your analogy is flat out wrong. Citizens aren't a drain on the fire department, for the most part they aren't a drain on the police department, and our roads are already handled by state governments not the federal government.

It's not selfish and greedy to use your brain and realize that when you redistribute wealth (which is what you're proposing) people will inevitably lose. Everyone is, on average MORE poor and LESS wealthy. The quality of care has also been PROVEN to be worse in any country that has nationalized healthcare. I doubt you've ever been to South or Central America, but their hospitals are basically lined up cots that have little more than saline solution to give to patients.

The only people who propose the "everybody deserves "free" healthcare" bullshit are the people on the bottom of the ladder. The people who didn't have the discipline or fortitude to finish college, get a decent paying job and work for themselves. Don't be surprised when those of us who did put in the time and work to be successful don't care about you. It sounds cold but that's reality. And before you go on about the whole "but wealthy people don't work for their money", the reality is most DO and HAVE worked for their own success. Stop looking at some top-of-the-top multi-millionaire-boogeyman when the truth is someone with a finance degree making, say, 300-400k a year doesn't give a fuck about someone who can't do anything but serve fries. If the roles were reversed you'd feel the exact same way and you're a blatant liar if you say otherwise because it's just basic human nature.

>being this retarded

>being this stupid as to not be able to answer the question

By picking one of these.
  ▲
▲ ▲

I can't believe I bothered to read this shit. Is this bait or are you completely retarded?

>I can't believe I bothered to read this shit.
Not him but yesterday I typed out a well thought out response to someone and they turned around and said they wouldn't bother to read it. Pissed me right off. Imo if you make an argument but refuse to consider the responses you are not interested in having a reasonable debate, you're just shilling your own opinion

I said some citizens are. Which is true. Chances are you and I will take out far less than we put into the fire and police departments. I'm okay with that though. And I don't really know too much about the state/federal divide since I'm not American but I'm pretty sure your highways are federally funded.

Why not similar countries with free at the point of use healthcare instead of ones that are poorer in general? If you want to only consider South America, though, read this and prepare to have your mind blown:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba

Did you learn to read a graph while you were at college? Look at how inefficient your system is. I'm not at the bottom of the ladder - far from it - but I'm pragmatic enough to understand that, even if you don't want to be compassionate, it makes more sense to spend on healthcare instead of middlemen and bureaucracy.

And it's not like going to college proves your inherent worthiness as a person either. Have you ever thought that a child might not get a very good start in life when their parent needs two jobs to get by? More than ever, people's lives are being determined by who their parents are, and your broken healthcare is another part of it. If you want a meritocratic society - and it seems you do - that is the exact opposite of what you want happening.

>two jobs to get by?
>Two jobs
Still don't make enough to buy health care expects me to take care off you.
>Two jobs
neither offers health care
>Two jobs
Why not just 1 good job?

Did you seriously just try to bring up the "healthy society" of Cuba, where people make less than a $1 a day for work and squads of police still take entire families out of their homes at night and imprison them if there's even the scent of political strife?

Holy fuck you are both stupid and have never been to Cuba. I don't know what kind of bullshit you kids are reading but Cuba is a hell-hole and anyone in South Florida that came from there can attest to it. I've been there and an average family has less than a rotisserie chicken to split up between a family of 5-8 every night. They eat 2 meals a day. That's the "healthy society" you faggots are arguing FOR? Get the fuck outta here.

Yes, you've cracked it. Poor people just need to earn more. Just like I am literally the best sports coach, but for some reason I'm yet to be hired. My strategy: 1. win games, 2. don't lose game. It's that simple yet somehow no one is doing it?
I don't know if you're trying to be stupid (you probably don't have to try) but the point is to show you how even a country that poor has a life expectancy higher than the US.

Has it ever occurred to you that a parent who needs two jobs just to fend for themselves probably shouldn't be having children to begin with? Oh right, it's never the individual's fault or bad choices, somehow it's society's fault. Fuck outta here you clown.

Shut up. That is what we tell ourselves makes us great.

Who gives a shit? They have a higher life expectancy by about 3-5 years, they're also brow-beat by their government and literally every choice is made FOR them by the government. If you'd prefer to be a slave and have the government make every decision for you from the time you're born to the time you have a burial plot then carry your happy ass to Cuba. That's not how the US works and we'd be happy to see you get the fuck out of our country I can assure you.

You mean the people who sponsor terrorism there because they're bumflustered they got sent packing? Yeah, they're a reliable source, just like everything else you've sighted.

Again making false equivalencies. Cuba isn't "a dirt poor country with a high life expectancy", it's a country where the government takes 95% of what people earn under the guise that they know how to spend their money better than the individual. They HAVE money and it's even more centralized than the "1% boogeyman" you faggots are always crying about. Their elite class is even smaller and richer than the US but you'd fucking know that if you'd spent a day there or pulled your head out of your ass long enough to ask an actual Cuban citizen.

It's like you kids enjoy being wrong and clueless all the time, it's amazing really.

>>sighted

I sometimes feel that Yellowstone will be the only cure for you lot.

Lol someone's butthurt because they don't live in the greatest country on earth

I don't know how much of this is getting through to you (I don't have much faith in the intelligence of someone incapable of even replying to the right person) but the idea that you have control over your life is an illusion. Unless you're a millionaire then maybe. Otherwise you're just another wage slave working to live and your main function in society is to create wealth for your capitalist puppetmasters. Your political system is rigged to the point where it's categorised as a "flawed democracy" [1]/picture, you've pretty much legalised bribery (Citizens United), and your two party system ensures that won't change any time soon.

[1] qz.com/894362/america-has-been-downgraded-to-a-flawed-democracy-but-not-because-of-trump-economist-intelligence-unit-says/

You're deaf right buddy, why the fuck should I pay for people who CHOOSE not to work? Beyond charity for the sick and elderly, which I believe would be better provided through charity than welfare, I shouldn't pay a dime to keep you housed, clothed, fed. If you aren't a benefit to society then don't be a part of it or die

He's saying your health care is shit BECAUSE it's free, you get what you pay for kinda deal. And I agree, why would I let an incompetent government be in charge of my health? Yeah fucking right

Either you work or you own. Better job is just a more prestigious servitude to an owner.

>charity
>sorry young family who needed a little help from the food pantry, our faith-based charity help is only for members.
>or
>sorry old person who lost their home because their investments collapsed (earning a fat bonus for their financial advisor, yay!) no beds left in the shelter, we had to downsize because there were not enough wealthy people brushing their crumbs this way. I hope that snow isn't too cold!

In theory I agree with you

I was the child of a welfare scrounger. My mother was a net loss to society. I, however, contribute positively to society and am not a drain.

What should happen to children who are born into families of scroungers? If the parents are allowed to die off (which I can see the reasoning for) the child necessarily dies too. Whilst I agree that it's not really your problem, I also can't be advocating for my own death here

nurse from NHS cardiff here

whats going on

But Healthcare has went way up since the ACA went into effect. I could of got insurance for $30 a month before, it's over $100 now. That's ridiculous.
Do you think it would be cheaper if it was fully nationalized? And how or why do you think this? I think once you involve that level of beauracracy costs can only go up. And health care in Canada has been nationalized for a long time, and it blows. My grannie said she would never move back to canada just because their nationalized health care is garbage. She said if you had the flu or something and made an appointment, you wouldn't be seen for over a month

i wouldn't want an incompetent business to look after my healthcare either

You've never been to the states if you think you can simply walk or ride a bike everywhere

Why would you support pseudo-private companies who are free to be as incompetent as any government AND have a financial incentive to deny you all care?


"something my granny said, I think, probably. Well, someone's granny said it. That's what the facebook image said"

Meanwhile anyone who actually researches these things finds that Most people are happy-enough with the system and receive great care. And don't go bankrupt trying to pay for chemo. Are there corner cases? of course. Do they spend less per person and get results as good or better than USA? yes.

This is correct. Now if we could cut entitlement spending, I'd be even more happy. I'm tired of niggers and spics doing nothing productive for society and only leeching off the system.

Careful with that edge, kiddo.

I honestly think without any welfare society would take care of those who we deem deserve it. You might call that wrong but I think it'd work out pretty well. There's a higher rate of homelessness/ beggars than there's ever been in history. So how can people say welfare works?

Of all the people I've known on welfare, very few could not work, most chose not to work and to collect welfar instead. Or better yet the drug dealer living for free in a section 8(free housing) and on cash aid and food stamps. How can people be okay with a system that let's people take advantage of others this way? So I have to work 40+ hours a week so this dude can chill all day, do and sell drugs? And we pay his rent, his food bill, and fund his fun money account. Oh and all that drug money? It's tax free! Keep it son you earned it, no need to pay into the system supporting your lazy ass since birth.

This shit irks me man, and btw I am not anti drug. I think prohibition will never work and will only ever fund people's lives who are too lazy to do real, productive work

...

It's sad when wanting to reform entitlements is considered edgy.

for each one of those scamming drug dealers (thanks for not actually Saying nigger) there are more small families where both parents work and look after their one or two kids in the shitty part of that city you live in.

>haha people I don't like should be homeless and starve and not get medical treatment XD also we're on Sup Forums so niggers XD

almost forgot, also-
So these programs need reform, yes. They need funding to FUNCTION, to have enough case workers to find the drug dealers living high on the hog, etc. Just like the IRS, choking an organization and then complaining it works poorly is foolish.

Because there is no one homeless or hungry in the US now? That argument is retarded. My mom did use welfare when we needed it, and we still went hungry sometimes. But without welfare you know what my mom would of done? Swallow her pride and move then with her mom. There are always options in life and very rarely does a person end up homeless who didn't put himself there. And this is coming from someone who has lived out of their car.
And call it foolish pride or whatever but I don't want any fucking handout. I'm a man who can make my own in life and I will never need someone to hold my hand. I would honestly rather suffer whatever happens than to need my government to take care of me

What is Child Protective Services for 3,000 Alex.

Why must you assume, user? I never said completely get rid of the safety net. I simply said cut entitlement spending. Reduce it. People shouldn't be able to make a comfortable living getting free money from the government. They wouldn't have any incentive to work.

We need more entitlements, not less. Universal basic income, nigga. With automation on the rise, we need it. I'm being completely unironic. And we shouldn't act like it's a bad thing, either. People work these days because we have to, not because it necessarily enriches our lives in any way other than financial. For some it does, but for most it doesn't. It's absolutely 100% desirable that we strive for a point where we no longer have to live like this.

Spot on. I worked in the northeast in a hospital for 5 years and there are TONS of Canadians that will come to America just to have surgery then go back home because even THEY don't trust their nationalized healthcare and know it's shit for anything more serious than a cough or a sprained ankle.

>implying you can provide one logical reason why we should pay for anyone else

I hope when we don't get more that people like you decide to fuck off and go to Europe where you'll be more happy. Let them give you free shit.

>I'm tired of niggers and spics doing nothing productive for society and only leeching off the system
Are you honestly trying to tell us that sentence doesn't look edgy as fuck?

If you actually think it's a good thing that your very life depends on working a job, even if it's one that you hate, then you are the ultimate cuck.

sure we should strive to be better, but giving people a very unneccessary sense of entitlement in order to better ourselves is not the proper solution.

us govt pays for like 60% of us health care, so you pay for others and you pay twice! well done

Oh, sorry. I should have been more equal. Let me amend that sentence by adding white trash along with them. Is that better?

Companies have an incentive to provide high-quality care to maximize their consumer base in the face of market forces and basic competition. It's their lifeblood and the profit keeps them afloat. BEFORE obamacare there actually WAS healthy competition with an actual market with dozens of providers. Obamacare was what made the monopolies you see today because it specifically outlawed interstate competition.

On the other hand, the government doesn't have to give a shit about quality of care they just pass more legislation and if it's not profitable they just shovel funds from the highway budget or something else to cover the cost. If you actually think the US government is competent vs. a corporation that specializes in ONLY healthcare service, look at the fucking VA and the avalanche of shit that's happened there over the past 10 years. That's the quality of care you get when you nationalize the shit. I honestly don't know how young people could be so fucking stupid they actually think it would be a positive change.

Well I know we're on Sup Forums, but tbh if you say "niggers" unironically, you're automatically an edgelord. The rest of the sentence doesn't terribly matter.

Well why would I choose an incompetent or unfair company to manage my health care? I wouldnt, and I'd be stupid if I did. Health Insurance companies do not make money off of healthy people, so its a loss for the vast majority of healthy people to be insured all their life. So why do you act like coverage is necessary? If I were to get insurance as a healthy individual, I'm paying for all the unhealthy fucks, why would I do that either? I don't think the system works, and while I do believe private coverage is better, I wont need it for a long time

>if you think working for a living and providing for yourself and your family is a good thing, you are the ultimate cuck
lol. I wish people just 20 years ago could read this shit and see how cancerous the youth has become in such a relatively short time.

fuck your mother.
  niggers

Again, who told them to have kids? You're advocating for rewarding people who make terrible life decisions on their own free will. I would be 100% behind providing welfare for these people if it came with the caveat that both parents would be chemically sterilized until they were able to provide for themselves without the help of welfare.

As it stands, welfare incentives people NOT to work. That mom and dad with kids who gets welfare? Yeah, they're working 19 hours each a week instead of 20+ because once you hit 20 hrs a week the free money goes away and they'd actually have to bust their ass like the rest of us. Get fucking real and the only one who said nigger is you, I gotta wonder why you dumb fucks are always the most racist in the bunch when it has nothing to do with race.

Are you saying there are far more people using welfare as its intended vs abusing it? Because I don't agree, I think you could kick at least half of the people on the dole off of it and their lives wouldn't suffer. Oh besides having to actually wake up for work

I work too, user, because I have to. But if I could enjoy the same standard of living without having to work, my life would be better in every way. I'll never understand this fetish for hard work and suffering. Work is a means to an end, not an end of its own.

XD

And while you sit around on your ass waiting for something like "universal income" that probably won't happen in either of our lifetimes, I'll go crank out some more work, earn a salary, and get ahead living comfortably off of what I've accomplished with my own hands and mind. Everytime I hear this tired "universal income" argument it just looks like a bunch of weebs who aren't confident in their own work ethic, skills, or knowledge base to actually make it on their own. Sad really.

Builds character, user. You learn the true value of a dollar when you work for it instead of having it handed to you.

le ebin maymay newfriendo

If you're claiming that you wouldn't love to be paid for not working, and have full ownership of all of your time to do whatever you please, then I just plain don't believe you.

>builds character
That's a dank meme you've got there. It's also not an argument.

Just because you disagree with it doesn't disqualify it.

How about don't live beyond your means? Don't have kids if you can't afford them? Better yourself and strive towards a job that will provide for you? All of that's hard work for these lazy people though, so we reward their laziness with free money. Also It certainly seems like most people abuse welfare. Every person in my little ghetto knows where they can buy liquor with food stamp money, who will trade drugs for food etc. Not to mention the countless times I've seen people swipe their welfare card to use their cash aid on handles of liquor, cartons of cigarettes, junk food, soda, etc. Great use of tax dollars right!

Is this supposed to actually mean anything practical and tangible?

I've had enough of typing long replies. You stupid Americans deserve everything you get. Do you really think you would be that much different from those you hate given the same circumstances?

You Protestant work ethic proponent are going to be so fucked when everything is automated. From where will you derive your self worth without creating wealth for capitalists?

Fantastic. Have a nice day.

And fuck you my grannie said that word for word cunt. Try an actual intelligent argument rather than trying to debase a clearly ANECDOTAL statement. I will agree that probably not every canadian agrees with granny but you're just back pedaling now

I have full ownership of all of my time today. I made a decision to sign a contract and contribute a fraction of my time to my firm's endeavors in exchange for a comfortable salary. You have the same choice today. Go sit on a curb somewhere if you want, no one's stopping you but no one's going to pay you for being a fucking loaf either.

The reality is if you bend to some "free shit" from the government you really don't have full ownership of your own time and you're stupid to believe you do. Every one of those "free" things you take from the government comes with their rules on how you run your life and which decisions you make. It's never just "free" shit, they come together with more government control of your life and your free will. The salary I'm paid and the position I'm in with a corporation is far more freedom than if the government were to take the reigns. You seriously think these idiots would run shit more efficiently than a corporation that has it's entire livelihood on the line if they make a wrong decision? You're naive as fuck.

I'm UK user
The NHS is dying because it's a socialist system.
That and the amount of immigrants is far too fucking high.
In 20 years (if we still are) the NHS wont be around.
We need cheap individual private healthcare but socialized healthcare.

Not him but if I didn't work I'd go fuckin crazy. I need to do productive stuff or else I feel lazy, and that stresses me out. So I wouldn't enjoy handouts

YOU HAVE TO WORK TO SURVIVE. IT HAS BEEN TRUE SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE TRUE YOU LAZY CUNT, SO GET OVER IT