Would Hitler had won if he destroyed the remaining British & French forces at Dunkirk...

Would Hitler had won if he destroyed the remaining British & French forces at Dunkirk? or was Germany's fate still sealed by then

navy wasnt good enough

I don't claim to be a historian, but dividing the nazi forces and fighting on two fronts was too much.

Didn't help that one front was winter in Russia and the other front was adding the US forces to the allies.

Still pretty amazing they could pull of the fight though.

I think the turning point was when Gen. Montgomery forced Rommel out of North Africa. Germany needed oil, and that was their last chance to get a steady supply. As the poster above me pointed out, fighting on two fronts was also too much to take on. And the supply lines into Russia needed a lot of petrol.

Dunkirk was a big deal, though. England was by itself for a bit after the fall of France. England traded islands in the caribbean for supplies and WWI era destroyers. This helped them keep fighting, and let the US increase industrial capacity. Germany never invaded England, British radar and the RAF were too effective for the Luftwaffe to provide cover for an invasion. If Germany had captured the British troops at Dunkird, they still couldn't have invaded England.

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Nazis eventually would have lost to nuclear attack as Japan did.

Allies were pretty worried nazis were close to an atom bomb, but after the war it was found the nazis were nowhere close to developing one. Fucking retards kicked out all the jews that would have been able to help.

Even if he had, Russia and the US still would have fucked up Hitler's shit.

Ultimately, British and French were no major threat, the vast material resources and sheer amount of people in the US and Russian armies was his real undoing.

But the real question is had Hitler never violated the non-Aggresion pact with Russia, would he have won.... or had Pearl Harbor never happened would he have won?

I think Hitler could have easily conquered all of Western Europe, the Mediterranean, and North Africa and held on to it if the Russians and US weren't involved.

A lot depends on what you mean by "won." Nazism was never gonna last, long-term. It was basically a cult. Cults rarely outlive their founders. Hitler's economy was based on stealing resources from the places he invaded, and sooner or later Germany would have been spread too thin, reached a point where it got pushed backwards, or eaten itself alive. It could never have changed course because it was a cult, and conquest was fundamental to its philosophy. Cults never surrender their core philosophies.

There was plenty of oil in the Balkans.... And when Russia conquered the oil fields that was when Germany really ran out of petrol.

In the Battle of the Bulge, the Germans were really hoping the allies would leave petrol as they retreated, otherwise they'd have no fuel for their tanks whatsoever. They didn't. Then the cloud cover broke and their air raids quickly rolled back the small advancements they'd made.

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The half arsed attempt by the Germans at Dunkirk is a real mystery - they could have wiped out our entire forces with ease while they were stuck in a dead end. It's like cornering your enemy on Age of Empires but deciding you want to keep playing so you just shoot enough stuff at them to keep them from breaking out of their town

Germany actually had a pretty spectacular team of nuclear scientists (most had actually laid the groundwork of theory that was used in the US's creation of the atom bomb). But they were underfunded. All the money and expertise was being used at designing long range missiles which were far superior in technology to anything the allies could muster.

The man that invented the V1 and V2 missiles, Werner Von Braun, defected to America after the war and became the first head of NASA. Most people don't realize this but the first trip to the moon was basically on a modified V2 rocket, Nazi technology.

Supposedly, the scientists also dragged their feet because they had ethical concerns about the destructive power of an atom bomb.

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Hitler was a soldier himself. He understood their plight. After being seriously injured in WW1 with mustard gas, he vowed that chemical weapons will never be used in war (but used them on Jews).

My point in all this, is I doubt Hitler, and by proxy, his general, saw the nobility of shooting fish in a barrel. People don't realize it these days but the Nazis were pretty big on honor and a rigid code of ethics. They probably saw letting them escape as the right thing to do..... now if they were Jews, they'd see it differently, but generally the allied soldiers were treated respectfully. Except the Russians, but they tended to be a bit rapey.

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The Geman Army had a very low rate of attrocities committed against civilians. and the German Navy refused to hand Jewish officers over the Nazis (or tell the Nazis if there were any Jewish officers). The Russian and Japanese soldiers were pretty brutal against civilians, there were reports of cannibalism by US soldiers in the Pacific.

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Germany was fucked the minute they started "conquering" shit in a time where planes and bombs existed.

>Germany needed oil, and that was their last chance to get a steady supply.

They also had the opportunity to seize oil sites in Russia. It's why Hitler diverted half his forces meant for Stalingrad to the south even though the Nazis were on the verge of taking over the city. He meant to seize Russian oil fields. He failed, obviously.

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Germany would have still suffered the same fate. Destroying the French and BEF at Dunkirk was like stabbing an already stabbed guy. France was done by then and the best outcome was England suffering losses and POWs. It's the Battle of Britain that you'd should look to OP. Even with to the evacuation, England still ended up leaving all their heavy equipment behind. At the hehe Battlemail of Britain however, Germany had a chance to knock England out and open her to invasion. The RAF was at a breaking point and instead of focusing on radar towers and bases, Germany decided to bomb cities instead. This gave the RAF a respite and enough time to rebuild.

gimmie a sauce on this whole "conquest was core to national socialism", cause i've never heard of it

Stalingrad wasn't needed to open the way for oil. Hitler just wanted to take the city because it had Stalin's name on it. if he would have sent the 6th army south he would've taken the oil fields

In a way, attacking Russia so early made sense. Stalin had had a lot of the Russian officers killed, anyone he viewed as a potential threat he had killed or put in prison. The early successes against Russia were because the Russian army had no experienced officers. But Russia used that to their advantage the rest of the war, Germany was overconfident. And Stalin played up Russia's weakness to get supplies from the U.S. and England for the rest of the war. At Stalingrad, the Russians had hundreds of thousands more troops than the Germans expected.

I feel the USA would have gotten involved without pearl harbor. Nazis were long disrupting American shipping.

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Pearl harbor sure rallied the troops. Not sure some rich guys having to find new trade partners would instill much passion in the masses. However, our government loves going to war for rich people interests.

The early German work on rockets was groundbreaking, hence the reason the allies were so worried. The effectiveness of the v2 made medium range ballistic misses possible. Nazi territory encompassed a lot of the area where nuclear physics was developed, so that also caused worry.

Nazis had too much to deal with so the nuclear bomb project never really got off the ground. Even if they forced the Jewish scientists to work it instead of exiling or killing them, it was unlikely.

Of course the allies didn't know. For all they knew, Hitler could have been pouring massive resources into the bomb.

Nuclear tipped ballistic misses were still pretty far away for everyone back then.

>nazis
>ethical concerns

Sounds funny, but nazi Germany was a unique time and place.

The Zapp branigan way.

Well send wave after wave of our own men to eat up all their bullets.

The Russian army had more troops than the German army had bullets.

This thread makes me want to learn more about ww2.

What's a good time to start, 1937?

It looks like a few other anons know more about WWII than I do, but I'd start with an overview of WWI. Netflix and Amazon Prime have some documentary series that are pretty good.

I usually prefer books to videos, but with history it's tougher. I'd want the most objectively written material, but it's hard to determine that without being familiar enough with the topic.

Tits.

There are several areas that can be their own topics. The history from WWI to WWII contributed to how it played out, the ground war in Europe, the ground war in Russia, Japan conquering a lot of territory in the Pacific, the naval war in the Mediterrean, the naval war in the Atlantic, the naval war in the Pacific, etc.

The first books I read were on naval battles in WW2. Dad had been in the military (he paid for college with the GI Bill), and had a bookshelf of books on the military. The bottom shelf was about warships and naval battles in WWII. The British histories are very good, US histories of WWII begin with Pearl Harbor and mostly consist of 'the US kicked ass.'

Rofl, yeah my early public education taught me that the USA singlehandedly won the war on their own.

Luckily the AP US history test required actually reading real history so I learned more of what actually happened.

Try reading a book.

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Public education is indoctrination. Real education begins as a freshman at a four year University.

Doubt you'll get any, girl's 14.

Literally if he never tried to invae england/russia the third riech would still be around. As long as he didn't directly antagonize them they would've gotten tired and withdrawn. Also nationalism wouldv'e kinda halted his colonialism if he'd still been around in the 70's/80's, but now we're getting into hypotheticals.

If he didn't go nuts on the jew thing he might of been able to get a nuke before anyone else and much could of been very different.

The Battle of Midway and Britain's defeat of the French and Italian navies in the Mediterrean could be considered comparable accompishments, if anything the British Force H victories were more impressive. Britain sent 10-20 year old warships to hunt and destroy larger naval forces, with more modern warships. The US accounts of Midway read as 'we kicked ass because we're awesome.' The British accounts on Force H say 'it was more or less acceptable, but here's a list of things that should have been improved upon.'