Pic related will never be a thing

>pic related will never be a thing
why live?

Other urls found in this thread:

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-03/piigs-era-draws-to-an-end-as-spain-ireland-aspire-for-new-badge
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament#Legislative_procedure
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

good

Thank God

there are better ways to show the world you're a cuck

This. I'd be ashamed to show that thing anywhere

EU needs to be way closer, but I don't see a point of a full on de jure federation.

>EU needs to be way closer
Fuck off discount Slav.

>EU needs to be way closer

Why are Austrians so inherently weird and awkward ?

I'm working on it

What is wrong with being weird and awkward?

FUCK EU I DONT WANT NIGGERS MUSLIMS AND FAGS IN MY COUNTRY

>Passport to the European Union

guess they spelled The Communist Manifesto wrong

...

piigs (including you) collapses
we get eaten by Russia
real Europe becomes a backwater irrelevant shithole

Nice

ITT: edgy nationalists

Nationalism, like socialism is good in moderation.

I don't see why people think you can't be patriotic and pro-EU at the same time.

Because being pro-EU means being a traitor by default.

Being pro-EU means that you're more loyal to an artificial thing made in the '90s (before that, it was only an economic cooperation) than to your own country

How so?

>"renovation of this ethnographic museum funded by EU"
>see, they're stealing our forests!

Because it is an anti-nation superstate that wants to abolish all the individual nations of Europe and replace them.

>European Federalists
>"I want a continent sized nuclear armed yugoslavia run by Merkel & friends"

how is that a bad thing?

>socialism is good in moderation
step into the helicopter please


ITT: globalist commies
the EU was a mistake we need a new world war

Hello Ahmed.

not even close

>anti-nation
> wants to abolish all the individual nations of Europe

>talking out of your ass

Nation =/= country

>being loyal to a random country you happened to be born in
I never understood this meme

You are the same as them in spirit. You want to destroy the greatest civilisations on Earth and replace them with a cosmopolitan shithole.

Without the state the nation will die. The nation and the state feed into one another. That is why they have to destroy the nation state first, so that they can wage a war on the nations themselves. EU has the same agenda as the Soviets in the destruction of individual peoples.

Because that country and nation gave you everything. You are of it.

Soon

@73136024
low quali bait

you don't even deserve a (You)

>Communists should all die, but I think there should be some regulation to prevent shit like the 2008 economic crisis
>wow, fucking gommie

Nice

The only thing you disagree with the Communists on is which state to serve and how much of the economy should be run by it. You agree with them on everything else.

How are you any better than a Soviet?

My country gave me shit, which is why I moved to a country that gave me education and later a well paid job.
I mean I am well aware that a country is not supposed to be giving you anything, but only creating opportunities which you can use. The only opportunity my 'home' country gave me was an EU passport, which I made a very good use of.
So yea, fuck randomly assigned countries at birth. I prefer to have a choice.

Ah ok, you are a rootless cosmopolitan and a traitor to your home country. That explains your stupid opinion then.

What could possibly go wrong?

But in my opinion, your opinion is stupid, and you think the opposite, so whatever. We can be arguing about it forever.
I am soon to receive my British passport and I was hoping to give up my old eu one, but since brexit is becoming a thing I might keep it just as a backup plan.

Are you saying that health insurance and regulations are literally the same as stealing everyone's property and installing a totalitarian regime with no regard for human rights and lives?

>but since brexit is becoming a thing I might keep it just as a backup plan.
Lol, you are not even loyal to the country you chose.

How shallow are you to spit both in your home country's face and the one which took you in?

I am saying that the EU does not care about human rights or protecting European people, but instead seeks to crush their desires for democracy and nationality. In reality, the only difference between a European Federalist and a Soviet is that the Soviets had an army to enforce their will, while the EU does not yet have that capacity.

>Social Democracy is the same as Bolshevism

I don't need to be loyal to anything. I am not a dog with a need to have a master.

>I am saying that the EU does not care about human rights or protecting European people, but instead seeks to crush their desires for democracy and nationality. In reality, the only difference between a European Federalist and a Soviet is that the Soviets had an army to enforce their will, while the EU does not yet have that capacity.

countries are a meme
be loyal to your community
your government and the thugs they pay dont give a shit about you
nothing beyond a neighborhood means anything, except how they play on fucking you over

>EU does not care about human rights or protecting European people
>crush their desires for democracy

This is all baseless bullshit. The EU parliament is directly elected and the commission is made of of member states' ministers, so the EU is as democratic as its members.

And don't fucking lecture me about the USSR.

Yes you do need to be loyal to something. You are a human and only sociopaths have no loyalties.

EU is not democratic. It uses a method of indirect election done by politicians electing other politicians. The body which is elected by the people has no power to introduce or repeal legislation, only to agree or disagree with whim of the rulers. This is called a rubber stamp assembly.

The EU hates the European people, that much is a certainty.

...

>implying the EU cares about democracy and nationality

>French and Dutch reject EU Constitution
>Repackage it and subvert referenda in those countries
>Irish reject it
>Make us vote again

>The EU parliament is directly elected
And has no legislative powers idiot. It is literally a rubber stamp assembly. Others like it in the world are the parliaments of China and Iran. Nothing more than rubber stamps for the leadership.

>member states' ministers
Politicians electing politicians is not a democracy. Otherwise you would make the claim that China is a democracy. Is that your claim?

>And don't fucking lecture me about the USSR.
Why, because it hits too close to home that you are exactly the same sort of traitor to your people as those Lithuanians who sided with the Communists?

>their desires for democracy and nationality
Kek. If you think the individual goverments of the european countries give a rats ass about either of these things you are deluded to the point of suspect mental illness.

>the only difference between a European Federalist and a Soviet is that the Soviets had an army to enforce their will
Well and theSoviet Union being build by military conquest and opression while membership in the EU is wholly voluntary, but I'm sure some Ahmed leeching off in austria knows all about the Soviet Union.

That's the ultimate goal of the EU, to do away with nationalism and individualism.

It will be.

I will will it into existence just to come here and watch the massive butthurt :^)

Screencap this post.

There will be an EU federation led by a Bulgarian :^)

>Politicians electing politicians is not a democracy
What are you babbling about? Thats how the ministers of virtually all european states are appointed. Politcians get voted into parliament and then appoint ministers.

>ministers aren't democratic
So Austria isn't a democracy either?

>Why, because it hits too close to home that you are exactly the same sort of traitor
No, because I was born in a post-USSR state and know a thing or two more about it than a fucking 1st-worlder

>Austria
>First world

>And has no legislative powers idiot.
Thats factually wrong, it has legislative power on finances, home affairs and a select more topics of EU institutions. It also has veto power on all legislation in the EU.
Be against the EU all you want, but you people need to stop lying through your teeth about how it works or stop pretending you know shit about it instead of just aping Sup Forumstard circlejerking.

nationalism and individualism are opposite each other

Nationalism is the anti-thesis of individualism btw

Don't you think thats more a problem with your national goverment than the EU? Its no like the Eu did that, its your own national goverment thats corrupt as fuck if it "subverted" the will of the people. How would it be better to have a corrupt goverment outside the EU than inside it?

If anything the EU could be a perfect accountability instrument to deal with corrupt goverments, because apparently you couldn't vote them out of office for it.

>If you think the individual goverments of the european countries give a rats ass about either of these things you are deluded to the point of suspect mental illness.
It is easier to make some idiots in Vienna listen to the Austrian people than some idiots in Brussels. The closer power is to the people, the more democratic it tends to be. Hence why centralised countries (see Russia, China, Turkey as examples) tend towards autocracy.

>but I'm sure some Ahmed leeching off in austria knows all about the Soviet Union.
Ahmeds support the EU idiot. It is the reason they can cross into every single country with impunity. Because the EU fines the Italians and Greeks for border enforcement.

>Well and theSoviet Union being build by military conquest and opression while membership in the EU is wholly voluntary
The Soviets in 1924 made the exact same argument. Have you ever read the papers on nationality?

>What are you babbling about? Thats how the ministers of virtually all european states are appointed.
The difference is that the commission is another body to the EU parliament. The Commission is not sourced from elected officials. But instead nominated by regional governments at the recommendation of the EU bureaucracy and approved of by vote. This is more similar to how a Monarchy works than how a democracy does. As an example, Tsar Nicholas II appointed ministers after 1905 in this exact method of appointment and approval by the Duma. Russian Empire was not a democracy. Whereas for example in Austria the elected body sources the government itself.

Now, if you had political knowledge you would know this and understand why it is a problem.

>So Austria isn't a democracy either?
See above.

>No, because I was born in a post-USSR state
Literally not worth anything in this argument. You know nothing about the political structures of the USSR or the EU so you being born in a post-Communist state is as relevant as me being born in Austria.

>Thats factually wrong, it has legislative power on finances, home affairs and a select more topics of EU institutions
No, it does not. It does not have the power to introduce legislation. It only has a power of veto which is what I said.

>lalalala I can't hear you!1!

Make an argument or simply admit you are ignorant on political affairs.

>The difference is that the commission is another body to the EU parliament.
No its fucking not. Its a extension of the European Council, the Heads of State who appoint them and they are affirmed by the Parliament.

>The Commission is not sourced from elected officials
Yes it fucking is. How the fuck are the elected Heads of State NOT elected officials?

> But instead nominated by regional government
???????? How are regional goverments not elected officials?

So democratically elected goverments and heads of state are magically not elected officials and the democratically elected european parliament is also not elected officials just because you don't actually have a point?

Spain and Ireland are not PIIGS anymore, we are ASPIRE now.

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-03/piigs-era-draws-to-an-end-as-spain-ireland-aspire-for-new-badge

>It does not have the power to introduce legislation.
>The few other areas that operate the special legislative procedures are justice & home affairs, budget and taxation and certain aspects of other policy areas: such as the fiscal aspects of environmental policy. In these areas, the Council or Parliament decide law alone.
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament#Legislative_procedure
Stop being such a lying shit, holy fuck.

I made my argument, you replied with the same baseless shit that was debunked already, that is not "making an argument". Why the fuck are you wasting your time?

austria was a mistake

Ay, glad to see that.

Is Wien Vienna?

>How the fuck are the elected Heads of State NOT elected officials?
The heads of state do not form the commission, they form the council. They do not partake in the commission. When somebody says they are not sourced it means, they do not partake in its affairs directly. For example, Merkel is sourced from the German Parliament. The Commission of the EU is not sourced from the European parliament.

>???????? How are regional goverments not elected officials?
Because there are two tiers in between them and the Commission in which there are no elections. It is similar to the Chinese system of elections, where local regions vote for officials, then these regional assemblies vote for the National Congress. Which then forms the administration.

>So democratically elected goverments and heads of state are magically not elected officials and the democratically elected european parliament is also not elected officials just because you don't actually have a point?
If you had some political knowledge and were not just an ignorant pro-EU hack you would understand why this is the case. I suggest you pick up a book on political systems, start with comparative politics to gain some insight for you my ignorant friend.

That is not how it operates in reality, that is what it simple says in treaty. In reality, the Commission has almost all the power of writing the budget, treating it as ordinary legislation. There is a difference between political theory and political practice you do know.

I'm watching a show and lecturing ignorant Europhiles. It is a good night.

Yes

>It is easier to make some idiots in Vienna listen to the Austrian people than some idiots in Brussels.
No its not. actually the other way around is easier because you have literally two ways to bend idiots in Brussels to your will, the EU parliamentary elections and your national elections, you only got one way in Vienna and if they decide to not listen, you are fucked.

>Because the EU fines the Italians and Greeks for border enforcement.
Once again with these retarded lies. The EU is FOR stricter border control. Its the NATIONS that are against it and keep violating EU law letting these people into europe.

>The Soviets in 1924 made the exact same argument.
No they didn't, don't be retarded and stop talking about shit you clearly know nothing about. The Soviets never let anyone a choice if they want to join or not.

>The Commission is not sourced from elected officials. But instead nominated by regional governments
So national goverments are not legitimate authorities in your eyes either, what is then? Should everything be run by direct referendum all the time all day? What a stupid and hypocritical complaint.

> This is more similar to how a Monarchy works
And literally every single parliamentary democracy in the world.

Don't worry, everything is still on schedule.

When did it become Vienna? Why?

>The heads of state do not form the commission
They APPOINT the Commission.

>The Commission of the EU is not sourced from the European parliament.
No they are sourced by the national goverments, whats your point?

>For example, Merkel is sourced from the German Parliament
She is sourced by her party, technically and the ruling coalition. The exact same group that souces the Commissioner.

>Because there are two tiers in between them and the Commission in which there are no elections.
So Ministers are also undemocratic because in most countries they are a appointed by the Head of State, literally the exact same as the commissioners.

>That is not how it operates in reality, that is what it simple says in treaty
>hur dur it doesn't work the way it clearly works because that makes my baseless bullshit fall apart

>In reality, the Commission has almost all the power of writing the budget, treating it as ordinary legislation. There is a difference between political theory and political practice you do know.
No in reality the European Council has all the power and the Commissioners are just their standing representatives in the EU.

>They do not partake in the commission. When somebody says they are not sourced it means, they do not partake in its affairs directly. For example, Merkel is sourced from the German Parliament. The Commission of the EU is not sourced from the European parliament.
>>???????? How are regional goverments not elected officials?
>Because there are two tiers in between them and the Commission in which there are no elections.

EU Commissioner
Ruling Goverment of a Nation->Head of State->EU Commissioner

Minister of every parliamentary democracy in europe
Ruling Goverment->Head of State->Minister

>Somehow Commissioners are different because reasons
?????

I love that picture because of how true it is.

just try to thing how raging that austrianfag will be one day when he will be searching for his first job only to find out new employees are not democratically elected by whole corporation's staff, but by few individuals.

>anyone taking esperanto lessons
>true
Choose one

>And literally every single parliamentary democracy in the world.
In parliamentary democracy the parliament sources the executive. In the EU, the parliament does not do this at all. So it is nothing like a parliamentary democracy.

>the EU parliamentary elections and your national elections
Ah yes, because they really care about the opinions of a country which forms 2.4% of the total seats. They do care not at all and can ignore Austrians at their whim.

>The EU is FOR stricter border control
No, it is not. The EU is bringing in migrants, and refused the British naval proposal of sending back migrants who attempted to cross the Mediterranean as a deterrent. The EU also fined the Italian government for trying to stop migration.

>No they didn't
They did. Read Lenin's/Stalin's papers on nationality. he made the argument that the Soviet Union was a democratic union of nations in a voluntary union, and made lip service to national self determination. Same as the EU.

>So national goverments are not legitimate authorities in your eyes either, what is then?
I already explained why this arrangement is not democratic.

It means the same thing. Vienna is just the English coming from the Romance languages.

I have two jobs.

Electorate -> Parliament of a nation -> Executive

That is how a parliamentary democracy works.

Electorate -> Parliament of a nation -> Executive -> Council -> Commission

Two factors removed further from the electorate.

Ministers have to be sourced from the national parliaments, the EU parliament does not.

Wien is cooler

>In parliamentary democracy the parliament sources the executive
No, in a parliamentary democracy the Head of State appoints the ministers. You know, just like in the EU.

>Ah yes, because they really care about the opinions of a country which forms 2.4% of the total seats. They do care not at all and can ignore Austrians at their whim.
No they can't because your goverment needs to approve of all EU legislation over its commissioner.

> The EU is bringing in migrants
proof

>and refused the British naval proposal of sending back migrants who attempted to cross the Mediterranean as a deterrent
That is factually swrong becaus e towing them back is the standard MO of Frontex and has been for years.

>The EU also fined the Italian government for trying to stop migration.
Also factually wrong, in fact the opposite happenes that the EU bitches constantly about Italy letting refugees go unhindered through italy into the rest of europe.

>They did. Read Lenin's/Stalin's papers on nationality. he made the argument that the Soviet Union was a democratic union of nations in a voluntary union, and made lip service to national self determination. Same as the EU.
Literally how does that matter? They forced them into the Soviet Union with conquest, are you claiming the EU militarily or otherwise conquered Britain in 1973 or Croatia in 2014?

>I already explained why this arrangement is not democratic.
You haven't explained shit, you delcared it undemocratic because of reasons, and when it was pointed out that it works literally the same way as any national goverment, you just keep repeating that nonsense mantra with absolutely no argument.

>EU is not democratic. It uses a method of indirect election done by politicians electing other politicians. The body which is elected by the people has no power to introduce or repeal legislation, only to agree or disagree with whim of the rulers. This is called a rubber stamp assembly.

Darum isses doch gar nicht gegangen du duhmösi

If the EU were a democratic structure it would look like this in organisation.

Electorate -> EU Parliament -> EU executive.

Or if it used the US model.

Electorate -> EU Executive.

Surely you must see how different this is.

>Electorate -> Parliament of a nation -> Executive
You forgot the step for the actual minister. No parliamentary democracy has the parliament directly appoint the Ministers. The Head of State does this. In some european states, the Monarch does it formally.

So in reality its
Electorate -> Parliament of a nation -> Executive->Minister

And in the Eu its
Electorate -> Parliament of a nation -> Executive->Commissioner

You keep just making up lying bullshit here.
The Council as a group doesn't appoint the Commissioners. The individual heads of state do.

>No, in a parliamentary democracy the Head of State appoints the ministers. You know, just like in the EU.
Where do these ministers come from idiot? They are also from the parliament, and they can be removed by it at any times.

What do you mean? European citizenship is already is a thing. Just like on the Euro coins the member states kept their own coat of arms.

>Where do these ministers come from idiot? They are also from the parliament, and they can be removed by it at any times.
Oh wow. EXACTLY LIKE THE EU.
The EU parliament can dissolve the Commission with a 2/3rd majority.

And no, not in all democracies are the ministers PMs. But in the Eu they are. There were even plans to expand this to have the Commissioners be put directly on the top of the electoral list for their district during the parliamentary elections.

It's like you people only care about meaningless and superficial bullshit while you complete ly disregard the real state of affaires.

>No parliamentary democracy has the parliament directly appoint the Ministers
Formal procedure, you know in reality it is parliament choosing minsters.

Unlike the EU methodology.

>The EU parliament can dissolve the Commission with a 2/3rd majority.
In an actual democracy it is done with 1/2 because that entrenches the Commission from scrutiny. Especially as the EU parliament operates on a proportional system. It is divide and conquer, leaving the parliament powerless.

>Electorate -> EU Parliament -> EU executive.
>Or if it used the US model.
>Electorate -> EU Executive.
Thats not how it works anywhere. its the Head of State that appoints the minister and no one else. Thats what matters for how far removed from voter legitimacy are. of course you try to hide one crucial thing That the Commissioners are ALSO approved by the Eu parliament. So in reality its
Electorate_>EU Parliament_>Commissioners

No, because the Commissioners do not get sourced from parliament.

>Formal procedure, you know in reality it is parliament choosing minsters.
No its not. Its not the case in germany, and I know for fact its not the case in Austria either.
But it IS the case in the EU because the EU parliament has to approve of them, which national goverments don't for their ministers.

>In an actual democracy it is done with 1/2
No it isn't, it wildly differs from goverment to goverment, in many in the EU you can't do it at all. The Commission is scrutinized by the Parliament on literally everything they do becaus ethe parliament has to approve of every single law and the Commissioners can be replaced literally at any time by the Heads of their nation. So they have even TWO sources of accountability.

As many ministers of national goverments don't either. Whats your point?
Considering that many EU nations don't even have direct votes in their electoral process for the EU. it makes literally no difference.

What is this non-argument about? The people, including that Austrian, who critizise the EU for its lack of democratic representation oppose any further direct democratization because it would bolster the legitimacy of the union.

>which national goverments don't for their ministers.
National governments do when they form the government from the source of parliament. If a government does not have a majority they cannot simply appoint ministers at will. You should know this since it is basic coalition politics.

If you cannot get a majority in parliament through negotiations then your ministers cannot take office as the government will not survive a vote of no confidence.

>No it isn't
Yes it is. In a parliamentary democracy you can dissolve a government and thus remove ministers with a simple majority.

because right now you have ability to straight up ignore European laws without anything happening to you

Because I do not like my country being an irrelevant 2.4% of a union. There is nothing to benefit from it and only things to lose.