>Tax cuts for the rich by throwing millions of health insurance. How is that not the epidemy of evil?
>Removing all environmental protections to save a few bucks, putting everyone's health at risk and speeding up global warming. I mean, if the coastlines flood, Trump's own hotel Mar-a-Lago will be gone.
>Trying to bring back coal. Why the fuck would we want coal back? How the fuck is coal clean? Why employ coal miners at higher costs, when renewable energies cost fractions of that cost?
There is literally not one action that Republicans have taken or wanted to take that has impressed me or has shown they want to improve the country in some way.
Can you explain this to me? What's their deal?
And what is an ideal Republican like? What's his goals?
I mean the ideological mindset behind these plans is shifting responsibility away from the collective and on to the individual. This being done by reducing the tax burden (in theory for everyone) and cutting back on public services, allowing people to make their own decisions about what kind of health care they want to purchase or fund.
Ian Hernandez
Their goal is to convince everyone else to work to keep making money for them so they can go to their vacation homes, and keep growing their money to pass on to their children.
You'll find republican politicians talk about "muh bootstraps" and stuff to working folks while they take multiple vacations a year on tax payer money.
Isaiah Cooper
The environmental issue is one of prioritisation. Sure you could subsidise and prop-up inefficient renewable energy programs, or you could cut back and fund something more useful to the country. Potentially even fund research into renewables in order to make them more efficient and a valid choice in a free market. (I'm not sure about the validity of renewables>coal especially once you consider the cost of land, maintenance and reliability)
Michael Evans
They have the most naive and gullible base.
They actually think Trump is gonna bring back manufacturing jobs.
Josiah Stewart
>epidemy You can't even spell epitome right and you expect to understand politics..
Austin Hill
He has... Business optimism and stocks all time high. btfo. gtfo shill.
Benjamin Jones
Tldr: "improving the country" doesn't just necessarily mean spending loads. That's why they want to close down loads of branches of government.
Aaron Jackson
>thinks arguments are nullified by spelling mistakes >hurrdurr i iz so smurt
Jackson White
Bad theory
Liam Myers
Hey dumbass. You do realize the US manufactures more than ever? Jobs aren't coming back because of automation, and its only going to get worse.
Julian Gray
Where did I claim the arguments were null? Simply stated that politics is much more difficult than spelling. If you can't spell simple vocab, then you shouldn't look to higher ed yet.
Logan Clark
Optimism is up. Jobs have increased. You are whining about....? All I've seen is an upward trend. Maybe stop being so negative you kyking cuck
James Rogers
Okay sorry, I see your point. I honestly didn't think I'd get a civilized response. My bad.
Oliver Richardson
Republican USED to mean -Limited Government -Tax cuts(REAL tax cuts not revenue neutral) -Non-interventionslist foreign policy Then sometime after Eisenhower and before Trump there was this slow movement of new "Republicans"(NeoCons) that now has the majority in congress and in public thought, caring more about the war on Christmas and blowing up every country in the Middle-East unnecessarily. True Republicans are hard to come by but are ideologically sound and bolster economies. What you seen as "Republicans" are not true Republicans.
Jason Lopez
In theory this sounds good but in reality it doesn't work quite so well. You're assuming that private insurance companies are completely honest and ethical, not the case. They naturally are driven by profit and competition, which means they try to find any possible loophole and fine print to deny your claims. I worked at an insurance company and we were taught to deny as many claims as possible, and to deny and delay claims for the most trivial technicalities, things like simple typos.
It's a less efficient and more costly system on both individuals and society as a whole. The results speak for themselves, the US has the most inefficient health system in the world, and health care is the number 1 cause of bankrupt pride in America. There are some things that government does better than private business.
Hunter Mitchell
*see
Andrew Brown
What's wrong with treating people like adults that can make their own rational decisions?
Easton Cook
Consumer spending is down. And you can keep calling people cucks and shills. Those trucking and manufacturing jobs won't be there in a decade.
Michael Russell
>tax cuts for the rich = tax cuts for job creators The rich don't keep most of their wealth in piles of cash, they invest it.
>global warming is probably a hoax because the solution is always to give up civil liberties and increase the power of the state. Even if it's not it doesn't matter, we could go carbon negative and India and China still would fuck us
>coal mined in the US is considered "clean" because we have much higher standards than the 3rd world. We might be able to use things like solar and deal with a 3x increase in electricity but by banning coal it just means billions of 3rd worlders start burning wood instead.
James Lopez
You're good. I mean this is Sup Forums and not Sup Forums so you should expect the troll responses. I wasn't trying to be a dick necessarily
Samuel Gray
Trump nearly gave John fucking Bolton high end positions. Idiots like him will bankrupt our country while bombing the shit out of countries that don't harm us. Bolton still thinks Iraq was a success.
Christian Murphy
Youre an idiot. Do research
Brayden Collins
Millions of under-educated, unemployed rural folk remember the days when they could be paid six figures to work monotonous, labor-intensive jobs. Most of that work has been replaced by cheaper robots and offshore workers. Rich old politicians lie to these people and say that they can bring these jobs back. Being under-educated, they believe it and vote for them.
Jacob White
Those won't be there but there will sure be a hell of a lot more jobs for AMERICANS and not the immigrants Obummer was pandering to. Economy getting better = more jobs created
Evan Harris
Ultimately divestment now will require heavier future investment into research renewable sources as american fossil fuels become more and more scarce. Developing path dependence for fossil fuels is a dangerous path to take as we've seen lots of civilizations crumble in the past due to unsustainable management of finite resources
Nathan Brooks
Fair point. Although I'm not entirely sure about America being the worst. Here in Britbong land the NHS is pretty shitty and taking up about 250-300 billion of our 750 billion budget annually. Demanding more and more as our ageing population grows and immigration goes up. I don't know enough about the American insurance system but I feel like fixing that may be better than universal health care.
Carson Parker
Wut are u? Libcuck?
Nolan Brooks
Nope. Jobs are just going away in general. Trump promises more oil jobs? Its not regulations killing the oil jobs, its Saudi fuckery.
BTW, even when the oil industry bounces back, you won't have any jobs.
Face it, the economy is evolving. Professional youtubing is the future economy, not no education manufacturing or physical labor.
Blake Diaz
But they don't have to be. If private insurance companies were truly in an open market then both quality of insurance and diversity of insurance would go up while bringing the cost of healthcare down significantly. What we've had in the recent past has NOT been a free market. Since the 1960s the healthcare system has been government subsidised and put under certain restrictions that prevent companies from competing outside of their state borders. That's why you normally only have one-two insurance providers per state and THAT'S why you've got such shitty coverage options and high premiums. They can charge whatever they want because there's no competition. The answer is NOT to add further government restrictions on healthcare companies, it's the opposite. Less restrictions=more diverse/cheap/higher quality healthcare.
Nathan Foster
>How is that not the epidemy of evil? >epidemy
Henry Bailey
but give 50 billion to the military and build a 20 million dollar wall. But no of course, big bird is too expensive
Hudson Roberts
>Tax cuts for the rich by throwing millions of health insurance. insurance companies are nearing bankruptcy this is why Iowa lost every single ombamacare provider. Insurance is the company betting you wont get sick to make a profit, it isn't a piggy bank. This is why my premiums have gone from 160 a month to 540 and my friend's family plan went from 500 to 1700 a month.
>Removing all environmental protections to save a few bucks, putting everyone's health at risk and speeding up global warming. it can take over 7 years to repair or build a bridge because the epa has to issue hundreds of permits that costs hundreds of thousands to apply for. we cant build needed infrastructure because a grasshopper is within 500 miles of a septic tank also the FDA send assault rifle toting swat teams to amish farms because they dared to sell raw milk to their knowledgeable neighbors.
>Trying to bring back coal. fraction of the cost? it takes a 16x16 solar panel 18 hours of straight perfect sunlight to match the energy production of a handful of coal. you know nothing of energy, if you wanted a real world reduction of coal then go ask for thorium or standard nuclear power plants.
Elijah Reyes
insurance costs are so bloated due to illogical practices like the Emergency Room policy, not really a realistic option
I know, those are the "Republicans" that are paid off by the military-industrial complex and have been initiating pointless wars in the Middle East and Trump is currently shilling for them, I agree with you.
Nathaniel Robinson
Coal is being phased out by simple economics. Natural gas is cheaper and easier to transport because you can send it by pipe instead of having to shovel it and drive it across the country in a truck. Same reason trains today are diesel and not running on coal powered steam anymore. Plus no one wants to live next to a coal plant and get lung cancer - no one. These low IQ people and coal miners who think they're losing their jobs because of some climate conspiracy are delusional, and even more retarded for thinking Trump will help them in any way.
Josiah Smith
because he's not a nigger
OBAMA TEARS
Owen Butler
>finite fossil fuels We have been running out of oil since the 70s but that's just not how the price mechanism works. As our current oil reserves deplete the price of oil rises, increasing the amount of money companies are willing to spend drilling for oil thus increasing our oil reserves. However, I agree becoming completely dependant on it is a bad idea who says renewables or oil are the only two options? Nuclear energy is best energy tbh.
Gabriel Morales
There will always be a need for physical labor. Why automate that shit? You really think we can program robots to be creative in certain situations? Yes, AI is getting bigger and better than ever, but nothing will beat good, hardworking, labor.
PS. Once we automate everything, we will be living in the matrix and humans will serve no purpose but to power the grid.
Jacob Hall
Are you saying this would have been a better choice?
Thomas Butler
Thanks Putin. But seriously, this is the dumbest shit I have heard in 3 decades. Why would coal mined in the US be magically cleaner than coal mined elsewhere? Would you care to invent some part of the coal mining process that magically makes coal that comes from US arbitrary boundaries full of less carbon than coal from Canada or Mexico? No one is stupid enough to believe you. Energy from the fucking SUN is now cheaper and cleaner than any fossil fuel. Suck a baker's dozen of dicks. ALSO solar and wind energy now employ more people than fossil fuels in the US. Suck another metric ton of wrinkly coin purses.
Juan Fisher
Obama tears? Obama doesn't give a fuck right now. He already won both terms and can't run anymore. He just got back from a month long vacation in hawaii. Obama doens't give a FUCK right now. Tears? lolpls
Noah Howard
I ain't defending Trump I'm defending the ideal republican mindset. Trump is still a moron.
Landon Butler
epidemy, EPIDEMY, EP ID EM Y
fuck it, i'm done. Cash me ousside bitches
Jaxon Collins
"but nothing will beat good, hardworking, labor."
Famous words repeated throughout history
Kayden Cook
Because workers are expensive. And its safer to have robots.
Make no mistake. Every company wants more profit, and salaries and paychecks are the biggest and easiest obstacle to higher profits. Why else do you think we outsource or get illegal workers so much?
Because you get to pay shit wages.
Once trucking and driving become automated, you don't have to pay a trucker 40,000 usd a year. You just buy a 25000 usd computer and then boom, you profit much faster.
Luke Mitchell
but you see how flawed the idea of decreasing spending is when our military spending makes up the largest chunk and is more or less left out of the debate
Kayden Jenkins
>believes in the free market meme
Aaron James
>The rich don't keep most of their wealth in piles of cash, they invest it.
Except they basically DO keep it in piles. Most of the Worlds cash isn't being circulated in a way that benefits the public. They might invest the first portion of the money they make, but everything after that is stacked away no matter the excess amount. That means whether they pay high or low taxes they'll basically invest the same amount.
Trickle down has been exposed as a blatant lie years ago
Jason Russell
> epidemy
stopped reading since you're obvious illiterate amerifat. can't take any argument you make seriously.
Jonathan Myers
Oh yeah I see it. But I also see how the media goes around parading pictures of Syrian children being gassed on the street and calling for the US to intervene and then get all pissy when they do. They still stoopid tho
Thomas Jackson
Trickle down DOES work. Look at how much richer China has gotten in the last few decades
Leo White
>branches of government No. No, you bloody fool.
Jaxon Gonzalez
You definitely have a point, but for now, we need these jobs to bring optimism back and to motivate people for the time being. We outsource our jobs to other countries for jack shit, yea, but that is exactly what Trump is trying to stop. This is America. We need to help Americans, and until automation is perfected, physical labor will triumph.
Jacob Price
Fallacy fallacy.
Adrian Campbell
>believes in limitless borrowing/public spending meme
Wyatt Jackson
Very flawed argument, as gas prices go up, the resource will become less economically viable as renewables will continue to become cheaper and cheaper as new technology is developed. My argument against fossil fuels is the same as my argument against nuclear, we should really try to avoid exhausting finite resources. Especially as elements like uranium and plutonium could be integral in the construction of future technologies. Ultimately, there is an argument for fossil and nuclear energy development that is valid, but as a society it would be wise to reject it as it is very shortsighted
Jordan Russell
They're straight up sociopaths with only their own self-interest in mind. /thread
John Peterson
One grammatical error doesn't diminish a person's argument.
Usually fags (like yourself) tend to point out spelling when they've run out of things to say.
So I guess a /thread is in order
/thread
Thomas Sullivan
Trains in developed western nations are electric
Carson Parker
Trying to reason with a trump supporter is no different than with a feminist, they both are bat shit insane.
Jason Howard
I don't know what you classify the EPA across the pond, apologies.
Cooper Perez
No true Scotsman.
Owen Phillips
Claiming there is a "fallacy fallacy" without showing why.
Owen Ward
Not that guy but you're a pretentious douschebag. I think a "shut up faggot" is in order. Shut up faggot.
Liam Lopez
Does he have to? Once you say the word "fallacy" you win the debate.
Ryan Anderson
see
Grayson Lewis
OP is an idiot. He has no idea what a Republican is or stands for and is trying to get the information on Sup Forums, don't try to play the bigger man here you fuckwad.
Jack Reyes
lots of sore losers in this thread. when will you fags suck it up and accept that you've lost control of ALL branches of government? whatever. i guess i can't expect that kind of common sense/maturity from liberals, of all types of people.
Christopher Richardson
Well just think of it this way, believe it or not we actually HAD hospitals BEFORE 1965. Most of them were run by churches where doctors made $3 an hour and people without insurance were actually charged the least(compared to today where they're charged the most) and still nobody was denied service if they didn't have insurance. How did these magical hospitals run without government intervention making sure people with pre-existing conditions had insurance despite the fact that nobody wanted to insure them? I prefer to think it was the free market at work.
Cameron Anderson
It reeks of reddit in this thread.
Connor Reed
Most of the power you get is from coal powered power plants. Also Coal is used for a lot more than you think. Did you know we buy all our iron from other countries? We no longer have any smelting plants in the US. FYI steel is made from iron and iron is smelted from iron ore.
Hunter Sullivan
Fam you didn't even get my argument. I was saying that you're underestimating the longevity of our coal and oil resources. Also prices for oil haven't even been rising (I think) in fact they're at all time lows. >short sighted What is your definition of short sighted? There is so much untapped uranium, enough to last us several hundred years.
John Peterson
They are sending the university students and redditers here to spread cancer. Anything to shit on DJT.
Luke Robinson
...
Noah Bailey
Well not really, "Paleocons"(Old Conservatives) believe in traditional conservative principles(limited govt, non-interventionalist). "Neocons"(New Conservatives) believe in pre-emptive war and increased spending.
So there is an actual split among Republicans, it's not a "no true scotsman" fallacy if you're differentiating between Scotsmen and Irishmen.
Jaxon Ross
>when will you fags suck it up and accept that you've lost control of ALL branches of government? are you like 8 years old? nobody cares about 'sucking it up' because not everyone who is critical does so out of some resentment of who won. some didn't participate and never cared and pointed at both parties in mockery. others were actually on the Trump side and now regret it and, yes, some are butthurt liberals but even if those criticizing were all butthurt liberals, that doesn't invalidate the argument, logic is logic, trying to deflect it by attacking motives or emotions is the tactic an 8-year old uses because he lacks the brainpower to distinguish logic from feels so keep evading logic, maybe a few other retards will clap their hands in agreement with you (I know, accuse me of being a butthurt liberal, maybe that'll shut me up!)
Carter Wilson
I know it's not as black and white as I think of it, but I support the fuck out of tax cuts on the rich.
It's become norm now that once a republican president goes into office, stocks tend to go up immediately because companies know there's going to be tax breaks. And on top of that, no poor/middle class people are providing jobs. The only people who supply jobs are CEO's that run companies at the best of their ability, and tax cuts help that shit.
TL;DR, middle class and poor fags don't do shit for me but Rich ones do.
David Morales
>"logic"x4 >this post I'm glad Spock isn't around to see this tbqhfamalam.
Michael Reyes
Yes we can continue to suck every well we find dry but ultimately these processes have impacts, and so far, modern societies haven't done a very good job at cleaning up after them selves. Tar sands have been "mined" since the 60s and so far the companies responsible have done very little to restore the lands. And before you say "oh those are in northern canada, who needs restorations" remember that boreal forests sequester far more carbon than equatorial and temperate forest. That ecosystem is potentially the most important naturally occuring active carbon sink. Having those intact will help us combat AGW. I also am not opposed to nuclear energy, I simply wanted to state that, it is depletable, and it is an extractive, and thus it is not quite as ideal as renewables are
Nathan Torres
actually i just made an inflammatory post to get a good reaction, thanks homie. no hate here
Luis Cruz
>"logic"x4 implying liberals know how to use logic...
Carson Clark
Read any basic economic book Then read the Democrat bible It'd easy to see the free market is best.
Any one who disagrees is either doing mind gymastics or have made some extreme hypothetical situations
Logan Scott
10/10
John Long
This grammar read like ruski
Liam Scott
I'm a self-proclaimed liberal cuck, but I would very much like to see somebody liberal respond to this with a serious counter argument instead of just dismissing it blindly.
Can you link to articles that discuss insurance competition and its possible effect on the industry?
Aiden Long
>run by church >free market You do know that the church was just doing religious socialized medicine instead of government socialized medicine right?
Carter Scott
Government won't fund for a better touch screek for my phone. It's their fault , I need compensation.
Carter Martin
jah feels
Jaxon Cox
>EPA Because fuck the environment? Do you not know how the environment works? You kill that grasshopper, you fuck up the entire ecosystem. >FDA >knowledgeable neighbors You mean backwards rednecks? I lived in the country before. Those people don't know shit.
Grayson Johnson
Word. For every knowlegeable landowning steward there are six retarded cousins living on trailers in a back corner of the property who just want to do meth and shoot guns.
Jackson Johnson
>backwards rednecks Ah, the old "rural and suburban retard" trope. >I lived in the country before Yeah you didn't.
John Brooks
1. "The wealth of nations" by Adam Smith -----the enlightenment era happened for a reason, you would be smart/wise to learn from it.
Nathan Butler
Time stamp with every economic book in your library
Grayson Ward
If you choose to give money to it it's not socialized medicine, it's charity. The difference is that a religious organization doesn't have any of the restrictions or proprietary obligations to insurance companies that governments do. While the government decreases competition by increasing barriers to entry, religious organizations have no such power and are under no such obligation. And that wasn't all hospitals, just a large portion. Now it would probably be run almost exclusively by private companies.
Luke Reyes
There is no "free market" and the irony of that system is eventually you are left with just one giant company that runs everything and has bought out all competition. Which is as far from a free society as you can get. The real world requires a combination of private and public services.
David Bennett
Less restrictions=more diverse/cheap/higher quality healthcare.
Except that doesn't really happen. We live in a new global world. Where international super companies work together to carve out sectors of the market and non-compete to drive up prices. Because Open market only works if there is a low entry cost for competition to enter the market and with super companies having such sophisticated infrastructure, they can manufacture or provide services at a cost so cheap only other international super companies could compete. So they've locked down the market and there is nothing you can do but not buy the product (which works for iPhones, but not for life saving medicine). So less restrictions just means more ways for them to exploit the market. Companies are driven by one thing. Profit. They live and die by providing more profit to their shareholders. And they will lie, cheat, and steal to get it. So why would you want to give them MORE freedom to do that?
Government is built on politicians wanting to get re-elected. In theory this means you have power, ESPECIALLY if you organize voting groups and show politicians there are real ramifications for voting against its voters interests. Then you have an organization that is working for your best interest and using the collective money of millions of taxpayers to barter better prices than any individual could get from a company. Insurers can bully your $5 out of you. Because you need insurance more than they need your $5. But put your $5 together with 300 million other people and companies will fight for a piece of that.
Oliver Reyes
It's all about making themselves and their extremely rich friends wealthier and wealthier. They could give a fuck about the 99%, or the environment or anything else.
That really seems to be the whole thing in a nutshell.
Nicholas Baker
so whats the verdict was this health care passing a good thing or what