Why doesn't the TV show portray her as the flawed ruler she is? It seems to absolve her of all blame, and unlike her book counterpart, she never needs to change or adapt to get out of what trouble she's in. She never faces humiliation, is never said to go too far, and pretty much gets the admiration of anyone around her.
They turned a layered morally dubious character into a complete Mary Sue, what is wrong with them?
Bentley Cox
Modern cultural trends in America dictate that a female character should be an absurd Mary Sue or she is trash. It's a recurring theme in western media nowadays. Weakness should not be portayed. Atleast not for girls.
Angel Campbell
Mostly it has to do with the writers being complete and total hacks and the target audience being 14 year old girls and college aged numales with the minds of 14 year old girls.
Kayden Hughes
She isn't morally layered? She is on a high horse that lead her to cast out her best adviser, cause the death of her greatest general(the greatest in the world maybe), and left her in the defenses of a eunich and a dwarf. Her aspirations are conquer and destroy, and her options are submit or die. And her target is a nation she has never lived in for a moment. And her reason is birth right. She isn't a Mary Sue, she is a character who's methods always turn up good for her, but has flawed and frightening motives. Jon is a far less flawed character, as he doesn't want to conquer but just to protect his culture and people, who have chosen him, and he succeeds.
Also lets stop pretending GURM is a god, or that Dany is a challenging great character from his depiction either.
Camden Morris
>Mostly it has to do with the writers being complete and total hacks and the target audience being 14 year old girls and college aged numales with the minds of 14 year old girls.
But they had men literally gangraping a group of women for an entire season.
Sebastian Brown
Women love rape, dummy.
Jaxson Long
If she steamrolls the west hard enough it will be her V. Jon and we'll probably see Jon or some 3rd party we've invested no interest in win teh GAME OF THRONES. It seems like everything is leading up to her turning into a Mad queen and Jon having to stop her while he fights the white walkers. An Impossible task if it weren't for the fatty with his Valerian steel blade. He will turn out to be the Hero of this story and I'm not exactly sure where the midget fits in.
Leo Jackson
I think she'll be a plight on Westeros, but will actually redeem herself and be the one to save the world from the Others, after completely destroying part of it course.
Gurm is not a good writer, but Dany is definitively a well written and layered character, showing hypocrisy, shades of tyranny, ruthlessness, shortsightedness and ignorance aplenty while still staying a good person at heart. Everything turning out roses for her in the show means she was right all along, which absolves the character of any blame for her methods.
Jon is a terrible character and a massive Mary Sue in both the books and the show, I don't know what he has to do with this discussion.
Jonathan Jenkins
I hope not. She needs to be killed and fed to dogs.
Daniel Gonzalez
Honestly, come on, people only give a shit about her cause "Muh Dragons" If she didn't have those, she'd be spent and used long ago. She's never shown to be terribly clever or smart outside of her double cross to get the unsullied. She's only a special snowflake because of the dragons, period.
Jacob Wright
>She is on a high horse that lead her to cast out her best adviser, cause the death of her greatest general(the greatest in the world maybe), and left her in the defenses of a eunich and a dwarf.
For me the problem is that all of her supposed fuckups seem to have no negative consequences whatsoever. She dismissed her best adviser, and hasn't suffered at all for it. In fact she's already gotten a cunning new adviser.
Before that she blindly trusted that random Second Suns commander just because he charmed her a little, sending her top adviser and military commander into what could have easily been an ambush. But of course it wasn't, because Dany never suffers any consequences for her naivete.
Adam Wilson
How is that? She is able to fix everything through violence. Even her latest diplomatic attempt ended through shock and awe destruction and the killing of 2/3 of her enemies, the send the other back home to say that she'll kill everyone else if they try again. And things haven't turned out roses for her yet, she only just left the shit continent she burned her mark into.
Easton Jackson
When did I ever call her smart? I certainly don't think she's especially clever. She's only alive because she was of use to other characters and because, yeah, fate and dragons and shit.
It doesn't stop her from being an interesting character. I think it's nice to have the perspective of a character who isn't especially smart or knowledgeable, Dany certainly fits.
The chapter when she gets taken down a peg by Xaro is probably one of my favourites, it forces her to see how badly she fucked up, and how wrong she was to get involved in Slaver's Bay.
Violence is justified when it's against evil irredeemable slavers who try to sell one another out when it seems they're all about to bite it. The books are rather bad in that aspect, but at least they have the Yellow Whale to redeem the slavers, and half of Quentyn's chapters are there to illustrate just how much of a disaster she is for the people of the region, good and bad.
Leo Gonzalez
>at least they have the Yellow Whale to redeem the slavers >Yezzan >Not a sociopathic fucking asshole
Dominic White
>treats his slaves well >frees most of them upon his death >his reason for collecting freaks can be empathised with >only slaver to advocate peace and cohabitation with Daenerys
Yeah, he's most definitively good as far as the slavers go.
Henry Bailey
>Free's most of them upon his death >Doesn't tell them that lions will eat them after their mock joust >Wants to have some killed when he dies so no one else can have them What a great guy
Luis Miller
sorry m8. I don't know how the books will go, but it's pretty obvious that the mad king parallels are firmly rooted with Jaime and Cersei. She's going to win.
Adam Turner
She's been turned into an idol for "gurl power" to attract woman watchers. There's no way they'll destroy that for the sake of the story.
Caleb Ramirez
I like how George does her A Dance With Dragons chapters. A lot of people dislike those chapters but they're missing stuff, imo.
There are TONS of things happening around her. Just all kinds of crazy little political things that she's missing. You're reading from the POV of a teenager who's just thinking about sellsword dick and is bored by the politics. She misses that all of this is going on. Being that it's from her POV, readers who aren't paying enough attention tend to miss the details too. I love that he did it like that.
I'm not dissing the folks who are bored or miss things in her story either. That shows that George is nailed that POV and rewarding the careful reader who disregards the characters views on the situation. I find it a pretty interesting technique on his part.
The man is an excellent writer. I think it's a meme to hate on him. His prose is top notch. People will cherry pick bad quotes but you can do that with literally anyone. You don't cherry pick quotes, you judge the story as a whole. He's a hell of a story teller.
Asher Edwards
Quads fucking confirms STRONK WIMMINS ruining Martin's story. She's a flawed teenager with ADD in the books. She's an unstoppable mary sue that gets handed everything on the show.
Jaxson Gonzalez
She doesn't deserve to win. She can get lucky once or twice but shes easily outwitted.
Blake Morris
Just fast forward through her scenes, you miss nothing
David Lee
Reminder that Danny is shit and should've died instead of Viserys.
Dominic Reyes
Yeah, she's definitely not the most important character in the entire series. Every prophecy concerns her, she brought magic back into the world and is most likely chosen by the Lord of Light to be it's champion.
Just skip all that though. It's not like the entire story revolves around her or anything.
Dylan Phillips
Because GoT writers can only write comically evil, really good, and easy 'in between' characters. It's a mediocre show disguised as a good one because muh many characters its so good.
Nicholas Flores
Does dany really think the Ironborn are gonna fucking stop their raping, murder and pillaging because she told them to? Even if Yara obeys, the rest won't follow. Yara will lose her entire fleet if she actuallys cucks out for a foreing ruler. Ironborn can't settle down and farm, their own land is poor in both fishing and agriculture. They'll fucking starve without robbing their food. And the Bloodraiders? They are the same. They do not farm, they do not tend crops and raise livestock. They kill and they take the food from those they kill. All of Dany's army save for the slaves will rebel and destroy most of southern Westeros. What the fuck is she thinking.
Alexander Moore
Don't be racist, that's not very progressive user
Andrew Johnson
You don't know how to stir up social media do you?
Jose Diaz
...
Bentley Murphy
Let’s dispel once and for all with this fiction that Daenarys doesn’t know what she’s doing. She knows exactly what he’s doing.
Colton Davis
Shes not thinking. Yea no, the mongol hordes will settle down and adapt to life in post war westoros just fine. :^)
It would be hilarious if she pulled a Napoleon. The war against the white walkers is heating up so she decides to send some of her mongol steppe and slave army to assist the nights watch. For whatever reason she ignores the wishes of her advisers. Forgets (having lived in the south her whole life) what the proper necessities for a northern war are and gets half her army turned into white walkers.
James Walker
She wants to reappeal Targaryen Rule
Michael Gomez
The same reason they fucked up Jamie's arc. The same reason they fucked up Stannis. The same reason they fucked up Dorne. The same reason they fucked up Arya's training.
D&D are pleebs.
Angel Stewart
If this show doesn't cuck out hard for muh womyn, i'm betting she gets most of her army killed. The Ironborn will must likely die in a civil war agaisn't Euron's Ironbon, and if the show doesn't cuck out really, really hard because of muh budget, then i'll be a sea fight. Fleet agaisn't fleet. That would be cool to watch.
Sebastian Barnes
>implying there's any shekels left for actual fighting scenes after all the le leddit imp making eunuch jokes, homo and lesbo sex, closeups of diseased cocks and CIA's nonsensical schemes.
Chase Ramirez
Oh yeah, how could i forget the fart jokes?
Charles James
>people actually think that her downfall and descend into insanity wont be the biggest twist of the show
Jon on the other hand will literally win everything.
Gavin Allen
>tfw will never see a full scale Ironborn naval battle c-can I at least have one CGI ship copypasted a hundred times and some CGI cannon fire? p-please?
Nathan Cox
WHAT A TWIST
HOLY SHIT I DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING, GIVE THIS SHOW 10 MORE EMMIES
Jaxson Garcia
It really is a shame, considering that I've never met any fellow book-reader who had too much distaste for the Danearys narrated in the books.
It seems to me that for all her poor choices, the book Danearys isn't either someone that's worthy of a reader's hatred. She may be an illusioned, teenaged, and hormone-driven girl, but for all her fellows, she's forgiven for being such an idealist, and being possibly the only one in 'ASoIaF'. But of course, the books lecture us by her numerous failures (her crashing the entire Ghiscari economy by ending the slave trade for "muh idealism", her alienating any form of allies for "muh idealism", etc...) that idealism is a substantial hindrance to any ruler for a leader in those times. It's also entailed that she will have to bury her idealism to prevail as a leader, which is both good (as she'll end being such a momumental fuck-up for her subjects), and depressing (her idealism being very touching and all).
So I feel that the Danearys from the books does inflict on her people as many retarded decisions as she does in the show, but in the books it's always forgiven by her meaning well, and always has a price.
Meanwhile in the show, her decisions don't originate from a naive and fleeting dream to better the world. In the show, it's about "being smug xdDD!!.! lol dracarys! Lol I sure showed those slave owners! That's right bois! My smug face is "ON" lololol" *smirks* *raises eyebrows to look cool*
Adding to that, her decisions in the show always have a Deus Ex Machina to remedy them all, and she never has to be brought face to face with the price of her idealism.
So tl;dr, I feel that the Danearys from the show has been robbed of all that makes the book-wise Danearys a tragic and human hero.
Carter Bailey
for all her flaws*...
Aiden Gray
And naval battlesh? I shuppose that'sh off the table ash well?
Adam Lopez
>and CIA's nonsensical schemes.
Elijah Ross
Dr. Qyburn I'm VALE
Jose King
That's a big army
Isaac James
>DABID DABID >WHAT IF DANY BURNS DOWN THE TEMPLE DABID >WHAT IF THEY ALL WORSHIP HER AS GOD BECAUSE OF IT Just fuck my culture up
Ethan Barnes
Im rooting for little finger and the midget.
I'd be rooting for the fatty too if he wasn't cucked.
Evan Davis
DABID WHAT IF THEY ALL CAN HEAR HER JUST FINE ALL THE WAY TO THE BACK AND DESPITE HER BUTCHERING OF THEIR LENGUAGE DABID, WHAT IF
Jaxson Barnes
Uh... you don't get to bring Vale Knights...
Christopher Foster
WHAT IF WHAT IF THE SNEKS KILL THE MARTELLS WHAT IF NO ONE EVEN CARES THEY KINSLAYED DABID
Ryan Lewis
DABID
Blake Parker
We all want CIA to win. He's the man with the flight plan. Do any of the other retards have a flight plan? I like Bran to because he has learned how to flight, and thus he must have a decent flight plan.
Logan Price
THE CAMPAIGN PLAN I JUST FILLED WITH THE SMALL COUNCIL, LIST ME, MY VALE KNIGHTS, LADY SANSA HERE. BUT ONLY ONE OF YOU! FIRST ONE TO TALK GETS TO STAY ON MY EYRIE
Caleb Walker
Because MUH DRAGONS
Henry Perez
Yeah honestly now it's hypocritical on her part.
I'm affectionate towards Danearys in the books because she's such an idealist to the books, whether that weakens her chances or not to gain the Iron Throne.
But this show Danearys is a huge hypocrite.
>lol slaves I have given you freedom, run around now >also, you can't be paid servants to your former masters, because that would be like "internalized slavery" :) >oh, by the way, this dothraki horde following me around, thinking I'm some goddess, well that's clearly not slavery AT ALL lol >you see they're following me out of their own free will
How she doesn't realize that she's made slaves out of the dothraki, I honestly don't know. I mean the dothraki only follow her out of her fear of her "godly powers". She's basically enslaved the lot of them with that trickery.
Jeremiah Walker
Show has turned into a feminist power fantasy Just an echo of the current leftwing bubble we're going through
Angel Jones
She had such a fucking amazing ass in Terminator. Not a fan of her looks overall, but god DAMN.
Thomas Clark
The woman has an absolutely beautiful ass. It's pretty big for an actress but that's what so great about it.
Nolan Jackson
This tbqh.
GoT decided to focus on market appeal over actual substance. The writers didn't know how to handle the overwhelming popularity of the show.
Jeremiah Ortiz
>thinking D&D will hurt their stronk womyn angle for a fucking white male
Josiah Scott
has to be clear and readable for normies and 40 year old moms, and righteous and powerful for progressive audiences
Joshua Brooks
> Why doesnt > Dragons kill innocents > She crucifies slave masters even before incasion > Goes against the culture, embarrasses both slaves and masters > Revolt in early season 5 > Purges masters > Another revolt by end of season 5, her marriage failed and city in anarchy > Her absence leads to the city being sabotaged from within and almost being conquered She is shown as a competent conqueror and a failed ruler. Just as in the books.
Leo Green
every time she fails, either in the following or same episode, triumphant feel good music starts playing and everyone rallies around her. every time this happens her flawless mary sue character is renewed
Eli Hughes
> Dragons kill innocents And it's completely forgotten five seconds later
> She crucifies slave masters even before incasion And it's completely forgotten five seconds later
> Goes against the culture, embarrasses both slaves and masters And everyone except a small group of the slave owners are perfectly okay with it.
> Revolt in early season 5 And she fixes it with her deus ex machina dragons
> Purges masters And it's completely forgotten five seconds later
> Another revolt by end of season 5, her marriage failed and city in anarchy And she fixes it with her deus ex machina dragons
> Her absence leads to the city being sabotaged from within and almost being conquered And she fixes it with her deus ex machina dragons
>She is shown as a competent conqueror and a failed ruler. Just as in the books. What a load of shit.
Camden Lopez
> Its completely forgotten By her imprisoning the Dragons > Its forgotten Because Sons of Harpy werent central in S5/6 > Everyone is okay with it Slave revolt begs otherwise > She fixes it Thats like saying that Joffrey is a good ruler because he fixes the revolt in S2 with his guards.
> Master purging is forgotten Because a major sons of harpy attack a few episodes later does show how masters forget
> She fixes it with Dragon She flees and leaves the city to the Sons of Harpy. If not for Unsullied and her council, the fate od Meereeen would have been sealed.
> What load of shit Literally every scene she has with Tyrion brings up the Ruler/Conqueror problem
Gabriel Bailey
I agree with all of this but the dragons aren't really a deus ex machina. They're crazy powerful beasts that put the whole world to heel in that world anytime they're born. The dragon riders rule the world. The only time it was ever different was when there weren't any dragons. She is the dragon rider right now.
I'm curious if after someone else rides them if they oppose her or not. She doesn't get all three, the dragon has three heads.
I just mean it's not a deus ex machina in that world. The dragon riders can oppose one another but whenever there are dragons only the ones who control them have power. That's clearly defined in all of the history. Not liking the current dragon rider doesn't make them a deus ex machina.
Joshua Hernandez
The show never places enough emphasis on the consequences of her actions. It all feels very detached and the threat not immediate. She always has a plan or is somehow magically safe. And despite probably making the city worse than it was, the majority of people around her, advisers and citizens, continue treating her as if she's perfect.
Like, why is Jorah still fighting for her? She's done nothing but treat him like shit, and he's seen how bad of a person she can be. Why does anyone on her small council think she's competent?
Luke Martinez
None of these have permanent, lasting consequences.
It could have all been averted if Dany ended up losing Mereen to the Slavers. Had to flee with her tail between her legs. Punished for ending slavery without thinking about the consequences, not controlling her dragons and therefore being unable to use them to repel the invasion, alienating her subjects by destroying their culture and economic system thereby creating subversive factions that help overthrow her little empire...
There's honestly NO PURPOSE to Dany being in Mereen at all except to lose it. Have her sail to Old Valyria, discover some cool stuff, establish a new City there, encourage those from the Free Cities and Slaver's Bay who do not want to live in slavery to move there, somehow find a cure to Jorah's greyscale, purge the land of the stone men / redeem them in some capacity if possible. Demonstrate that she has to start from the bottom and can't just invade a place and magically expect everything to fall into place because she wants it to. Learn to become a GOOD ruler.
THEN go to Westeros and realize oh shit it's not all about conquest there are bigger things at play here (Others) and do the right thing to repel the invasion instead of conquest... then eventually when it is all over and her armies are spent (but she has used her dragons to properly fulfill the prophecy and destroy the source of the Others) the people love her so much that they are willing to accept her as queen for her service to the realm and pledge their banners, including Jon Snow in an emotional moment. Have some tweests along the way so that the Ironborn can be eradicated because they are a garbage kingdom anyway and jeopardize peace in the Seven Kingdoms.
But it's too late for that.
Easton Garcia
I wonder when Tyrion will get on the dragon
Jonathan Johnson
>Literally every scene she has with Tyrion brings up the Ruler/Conqueror problem Lip service
>Oh dany's on screen >let me get my empowered hashtag
Caleb Long
Remember that time Robb's shy and reluctant wife was turned into a 21th century Occupy Wall Street feminist nigger?
Christopher Cooper
Remember when the Red Wedding wasn't edgy enough for D&D so they needed a pregnant woman to get stabbed to death so they could have an erection or some shit?
Nathan Johnson
She was pretty damn qt though.
Is she actually black/part black? Looks more native to me.
Connor Flores
But see... she served an important purpose. The fact that she rubbed people the wrong way just made the Red Wedding that much more... justified, by the perspective of the perpetrators. That's what makes it so interesting. It's not a random act of violence, it is the result of Robb's actions. It demonstrates the whole actions have consequences aspect of the story that separates it from any other fantasy novel. The greatest example, noble Ned Stark, does everything "right" when it comes to fantasy tropes and gets completely fucked over by multiple people due to utterly human motivations.
Hunter Smith
fuck off cuck
Xavier Ortiz
I wanna be her toilet
Hunter Gutierrez
It had so much more impact in the books because GRRM has a slight understanding of what build-up and tragedy means. Contrary to Edge&Edge who think RW was only for shock value.
Jacob Sullivan
Could it be that it had more impact because you read the books first?
I'm not arguing that is the case, just playing devil's advocate. Personally, I think the scene had ample impact, an excellent build-up, and was not predictable, which is difficult in television. You have to be careful how much you "hint" at things on television because audiences tend to be more predictive than they are when reading a book due to books being inherently more immersive. Re-watching the season is rewarding because you can pick up on all the little mistakes Robb was making.
I agree that D&D have lost some of that magic where rewatching the show can be rewarding... there are so many little moments in the first season that hint at future events, or use past events and history to seamlessly transition into the present.
I think the loss of GRRM on the writing team / consulting team of the show had a lot more to do with the decline in quality than anything. Hopefully he writes one or two episodes in the final two seasons, but something tells me that is unlikely given how far the show is deviating from his vision.
Juan Ortiz
xD I said it again
William Garcia
>body doubles
Caleb Ortiz
>literally hasn't seen that scene
That scene shows her from the front and side as she turns. She's naked for all that. Why would they switch to a double for a woman we just saw naked from every angle, ass (from the side) included? Not to mention, look at her shape. It's clearly her... those chubby arms are unmistakable. Maybe I just feel for bait, I don't know.
Dylan Martinez
>and that he wondered what Sauron's actual motivations were.
But Sauron's motivations to become lord of Arda have been written about by Tolkien. In great detail.
Nicholas Ortiz
Not to mention thats first episode they wouldnt get a body double for a literally who on a show no one gave a fuck about
Luis Barnes
She lost all the cities she conquered and was only left with Mereen and in it people were complaining and the sons of the Harpy were terrorizing.
She is constantly making wrong decisions.
Jonathan Wilson
Looks more native than black? The fuck are you talking about, native what? She's Spanish.
Michael Wood
>closeups of diseased cocks
Never saw a wart anywhere on that thing. He just wanted to get his junk out and show it to his co-performer.
Wyatt Stewart
delusional retards
Robert Foster
To be fair, by that logic the motivation of every single peck of grass in the Shire is clear as the Sun.
Tolkien's world is coherent and Sauron has motivation, but it's not really conveyed through TLOTR, he's just a faceless villain of ultimate evil at that point.
Joseph Anderson
t. shownly
Alexander Butler
They seem pretty spot on to me. What's your reasoning?
Adam Robinson
well she did get humiliated when she was chained to go to Veas Dothrak sadly that was short lived as well as Tyrion scolding her for considering burning the entire city when she got back. Also shirt lived tho. But yeah, nothing since season 1 and the beginning of 2.
Kayden Wood
Jon literally practices combat every day at the nights watch. He's the embodiment of the idea that practice makes greatness, he also learns from his fuckups, unlike dany who suffers no consequences and just destabilised the economy and rule of an entire continent of brown people while allowing her follower to torture innocents. Shes actually hillary Clinton
Austin Cruz
his characters are interesting but topnotch his prose it NOT. It is shit. I really wish he could just concede and get someone to edit his stuff entirely for him. The way he writes is just cringe worthy, especially the sex scenes.
Gavin Watson
Naw,they're both crazy. They had no parents to properly guide them throughout their lives. They're a bunch of street kids with no idea what it means to rule.
Noah Rogers
>Learns from his fuck ups >no one cares that he's a night's watch deserter That could be more the fact that he came back to life so people see him as some god or something but that's never talked of either so....
Grayson Price
The first season of the show is basically a 1:1 telling of the books. Most of the dialouge is exactly the same. The moment they started deviated and making up their own fanfic OC, shit just crashed. They couldn't stop letting modern social media trends affect their writing like the impressionable retards they are.
Logan Perez
must be a white knight
Jose Allen
Viserys is one my favourite characters. Felt so sorry for him when he died in the books.
Anthony Mitchell
A E G O N B O Y S WW@
Aiden Garcia
meh I empathize with him because of his past but he's still an ass. Just because you had a shit life doesn't mean you take your anger out on and maltreatment your sister most of the time. It's not her fault.