Federal healthcare is a clusterfuck

federal healthcare is a clusterfuck.
We should decentralize and let the states manage it instead.

Why can't democrats get behind this?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=FgMn2OJmx3w
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enumerated_powers
medicaleconomics.modernmedicine.com/medical-economics/news/administrative-costs-are-killing-us-healthcare
sandiegouniontribune.com/news/watchdog/sdut-corruption-study-2016mar15-story.html
myredditnudes.com/
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Because it didnt work last time, stop trying.

how dare you post founding father pic. each of them would probably want to put a flintlock to trump and obamas temple and pull the trigger rather than ever consider state mandated healthcare

Universal healthcare works similar to Costco because it's cheaper to buy in bulk. The more people you have paying into the system the cheaper it is for every individual. Also, since everyone is covered this renders private health insurance obsolete. Place price controls on prescription drugs and you've got an excellent health care system like they have in most other industrialized countries.

Or keep buying into corporate propaganda. Whatever.

Doesn't work in a capitalist society, faggot. Learn to invisible hand of economics.

>Doesn't work in a capitalist society
Why does it work in every other one then?

OP here.
You are arguing against yourself.
single-payer will *never* pass in congress, so if you really think its the best method, we should let states that want it implement it.

no, they would precisely say its up for each state to do what they want.

The insurance industry is a literal ponzi scheme that needs to be dismantled.

Although I don't really have a problem with states managing their own public healthcare systems. That essentially guarantees many, many red state people will die off and the country will only benefit from that.

this

but the fact that others might not prefer the same system is just too scary from a libtard's perspective.

>muh econ 101
Simple supply and demand do not apply in complex markets like healthcare. They don't apply in most markets, actually, which is why throwing around babby's first econ is usually wrong.

Heh

I see what you did there

So I shouldn't be forced to pay for right winger's wasteful military spending and irresponsible wars then right?

You do know that's where your tax money primarily goes don't you?

More money goes to health than the military.

>also sage

military spending obvious does have to be resolved at congress, since we can't have multiple armies.
But we can have multiple healthcare systems.

Stop forcing me to pay for your wasteful spending.

>discretionary budget
That's not total spending you fucking retard

Because decentralized healthcare is what we had before, and it was just as bad, if not worse.

not equivalent at all.
states who didn't pay for military would still benefit from it. "tragedy of the commons"

healthcare could be handled at state level only

healthcare in general was worse in the 19th century yes, but you can't just make the logical leap that that was because it was decentralized.

Dude, go learn the difference between "discretionary spending" and "all federal expenditures."

And how does putting it back to how it was pre-Obamacare magically change the status quo we arrived at before Obamacare?

fed government still spent 17%+ of its budget on healthcare before obamacare.
How is that decentralized?

So you're going to eliminate Medicare and Medicaid too, which are two of the most EFFICIENT healthcare programs in the country? Yeah, that'll totally result in magical improvements in healthcare - once all the poor people die off from lack of medical care, anyway!

As bad as spending is on Healthcare now? I blame most of it on how we perform our model of capitalism.

Most of that spending is due to the rising costs of hospital bills, medicine AND insurance costs (Insurance costs and the other two are in a vicious cycle of inflation that winds up negatively affecting the average citizen). But instead of regulating that kind of wild growth (Cancerous, almost), our government will only talk about band-aid fixes. This is not their fault per-se. We have always been more concerned with short-term profits over preventative measure, not to mention the amount of back-room deals involved with lobbyists.

To leave this to the states might fix SOME issues, but that is only if we don't apply what we already know about state regulations. A lot of the time there will be budget cuts that won't make sense either due to state debt (short-term fix) or the well-known race-to-the-bottom states often have in order to make them more appealing to companies (another short-term fix).

youtube.com/watch?v=FgMn2OJmx3w

its only the most efficient because everything else is so horrible.
similar programs can be established at a more local level with more accountability and less overhead

all true, because centralized congress power is easily controlled by insurance industry special interest.
That would be harder to pull off at a more local level, where the general interest is held in a much smaller constituency, who can much more easily organize themselves.

this is just naive rambling.
What is your proposed solution?

people are not going to suddenly stop acting for their own narrow interest.

the liberal fallacy is thinking that if only the "right" people where in power, things would be great. That is just bullshit.

The founding fathers knew how this works, for some reason people have forgotten

if libs could somehow start understanding this, the US would enter a new golden age

good luck with that.
the whole ideology of liberals is built around paternalism, and the anointed few knowing whats good for the masses.

Proposed solution? Nothing. As much as I hate to say it, any attempt to scrap what we currently have will fuck us up bad. We are riding a fucking tiger.

We could do a few things, but they are as of yet impossible. You think we can ban lobbyists? Fuck dat. Increase regulation of the insurance game? Fuck dat. Drain the swamp? You might as well replace it with a sewage field and then watch it flood during Hurricane Katrina. Use the same models of healthcare that work for other nations? What are you, a socialist?

That last one is the same argument as with gun control, in that our culture is so ingrained to certain markets and ideals that there is currently no real solution that can be borrowed and applied to us. We aren't Swedes, Japs or Canooks. Right now, FUCKING MEXICO has better laws than ours. It's just that they aren't able to enforce them.

And fuck you for calling me a liberal you piece of cuck-shill.

> offers nothing but vapid talking points.

Okay Donald, it's past your bedtime. Big day tomorrow, you've got to sit in the Oval Office and pretend you give a shit about the country you're running!

you just sound like a confused douche.

The solution is clear - reduce federal power to the very limited areas delineated in the constitution.

Why do you refuse to admit it.

That's the way it was before the ACA.

It was a worse clusterfuck then.

> can't find counter arguments
> ad hominem time

I didn't vote for trump

So that's why they abandoned the looser state independent Articles of Confederation in favor The more Federal centric constitution.........

Neither did that excuse. Fuck you.

nonsense.
it was 17%+ of federal budget before ACA, how was that not centralized

and you think they had welfare and medicare in mind when wrote the enumerated powers?
give me a fucking break.

Offer a proposal for me to speak to, or get told you're a vapid pre-teen obsessed with ayn rand.

You can spout all the trump,talking points you want, but if you offer nothing more substantive than, "like, return the power to the states, man," you're gonna get laughed at like you're a mindless buffoon, because you're behaving like a mindless buffoon.

You don't seem to understand how Insurance companies work.

They're not really beholden to the individual states they operate in, and as such they can hold more legal power by pushing certain cash strapped states around in court.

wtf?
how insurance companies work or don't work can be decided by each state's set of laws.

Don't you ad honeim me.

Because the constitution is a liberal piece of shit.

It was made to break 170 years ago. The only reason the 2nd amendment was allowed was to placate drunken militia men who weren't even that useful during the war. And, as a fascist, I can't respect a document that allows such checks and balances to the point where it ENCOURAGES the dismantling of a government.

Also, the founding fathers were Jew-worshipping zionists.

No but "giving more powers to the state" wasn't the goal of the Constitution.

And why the fuck do you even think they would want that? Are you 260 years old?

Yeah, those laws are totally not written by lobbyists who probably have a bigger budget than the states they work in.

>No but "giving more powers to the state" wasn't the goal of the Constitution.

Because the federal government had very little power to begin with.

Why is this so hard for you people. Tell me where is welfare, education and healthcare listed here
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enumerated_powers

lobbying is less effective the smaller the size of the constituency is, since special interest pushes relies on general outrage to be spread and disorganized.

I'm not saying it would go away, I am saying it would be better.
This is not some wild theory, its actually what we see in practice. google it up

In 2015, healthcare expenditures were 3.2 trillion in the US.

In the same year, direct federal expenditures were 980 billion on healthcare.

31% of total expenditure came from this "centralized source," which means 69% came from state and individuals.

Yeah, how centralized.

and a lot of those 3.2 trillion are used not in actual hearth services but from overhead and transaction costs due to an overly complicated, gigantic national system.

medicaleconomics.modernmedicine.com/medical-economics/news/administrative-costs-are-killing-us-healthcare

Necessary and proper clause + commerce clause, champ.

Feel free to offer us your scholarly rebuttal, showing exactly how constitutional scholars on the Supreme Court completely overlooked the enumerated powers, though.

not same person here.
But just because its legal it doesn' t mean its efficient or desirable. I'm with OP on this one

Bait? Or are you really this stupid? Single payer is the future why can't you get that? Anything else is will not work due to the right-wings ingnorance of big insurance companies greed.

>lobbying is less effective the smaller the size of the constituency is, since special interest pushes relies on general outrage to be spread and disorganized.


So you're saying corruption and back room deals don't exist in this country?

Funny how local gov'ts tend to have higher instances of corruption then.

sandiegouniontribune.com/news/watchdog/sdut-corruption-study-2016mar15-story.html

see

Are you talking about Medicare?

open lobbying by insurance industry is the main reason healthcare is where its at.
Why invoke backroom corruption when it isn't needed to explain anything here?