Can you justify harming, killing or otherwise exploiting an animal in a scenario where it is not necessary? For example, to eat a McDonalds hamburger when you could have a veggie burger instead.
Is it possible on an ethical or logical basis to treat an animal this way?
Another question for you: if it's because of sentience, the ability to feel and suffer that we ascribe moral value to the life of a human being, and because of this it becomes unethical to harm a human being without proper justification, how then, can you justify harming an animal without proper justification?
What is the trait not present in human beings, which is present in an animal, which allows you to remain ethically consistent and still harm that animal? What is the key difference that justifies, for example, a pint of cow's milk?
If you can come up with an answer to any of these dilemmas, you will have done what I have never seen done before: ethically justified not being a vegan in 2017. Even Richard Dawkins has admitted it isn't possible.
I fucking love bacon-wrapped filet mignon. I also like to imagine, as I eat it, the last thoughts of the animals as they're executed for my culinary pleasure. Their deaths add something of an exquisite "aphrodesiac" effect to my meal.
Camden Robinson
Can you justify harming, killing or otherwise exploiting a plant in a scenario where it is not necessary? For example, to eat a Garden Veggie Burger when you could have a Philly Cheese steak instead?
Is it possible on an ethical or logical basis to treat a plant this way?
Another question for you: if it's because of sentience, the ability to feel and suffer that we ascribe moral value to the life of a human being, and because of this it becomes unethical to harm a human being without proper justification, how then, can you justify harming a plant without proper justification?
What is the trait not present in human beings, which is present in an a plant, which allows you to remain ethically consistent and still harm that plant? What is the key difference that justifies, for example, a pint of plant milk?
If you can come up with an answer to any of these dilemmas, you will have done what I have never seen done before: ethically justified not being an Alpha Mammal in 2017. Even Colonel Sanders has admitted it isn't possible.
tl;dr I eat plants because I can't hear them scream
I have no problem killing an animal and consuming its carcus to satisfy my hunger, can you tell me if you where stuck out in the wild with no food where you would ramble your self a veggie burger from?
Mason Gonzalez
I can't wait until it's conclusively proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that plants can feel pain - so OP and other vegans are force to eat rocks.
David Sanchez
The thread isn't discussing eating animals out of necessity. I would eat an animal if I had to. I'm talking about in 2017 when you shop in a supermarket and have the internet.
Jackson Parker
I can justify killing you for no other reason then sacrificing your body and soul to fill me with lust before a giant orgy. Obviously, I would prefer a female Virgin but something about a challenge makes it more fun.
Blake Reed
Plants contain essential nutrition for human beings, animals do not. Animals clearly feel immense pain, plants even if they did feel pain, are nowhere near as sentient as a vertebrate.
Therefore, being a vegan would still be logically consistent. Also, to eat animals, you feed them plants.
Caleb Fisher
>Plants don't have feelings. Did you ask the plants this? Or are you an equivalent of a Nazi claiming Jews had no feelings? You're a fucking sick piece of shit. All those plants you devour and refuse to acknowledged their feelings. What kind of psychotic person does that? I'll tell you the kind: the kind that posts in threads pushing their sick self righteous agenda on those who refuse to be beta mammals. Choke on a cucumber you green faggot
Lucas Martin
It's an illogical position to hold unless you're saying morality is subjective. In which case, I can justify feeding you to your own family.
Kevin James
Like I said, eating plants is the lesser of the two evils, and is essential to health. Eating animals isn't essential. You clicked on the thread and posted on it, I didn't force you to do anything.
You're using really retarded logic user.
Jonathan Foster
>this is what mentally ill vegans tell themselves, to avoid eating rocks
I am disappoint
Connor King
kek
Hudson Peterson
Idgaf
Owen Robinson
>Says plants have no feelings >thinks logic is retarded
Thy name is vegan green fag
Aiden Martinez
>Is it possible on an ethical or logical basis to treat an animal this way? Nope. But you're in a place that glorifies suicide, racism and child molestation, sooooo, good luck with this thread lad.
Josiah Torres
>Did you ask the plants this? Oh look, it's this comment again, how very original.
Benjamin Adams
...
Elijah Foster
Because animals taste good. Fuck you and your ethics. Human is the masterrace and we can do anything we want to other species.
Isaac Edwards
I just watched a video summarising the book "how not to die" to see if the book were a good purchase, immediately When I came here I see this thread.
Anyway, I don't think morals/ethics is a good enough argument to convince someone to change their habits. It sounds fucked up, but I think it's true. Say someone watches a slaughterhouse video and decides then and there they won't eat animal products again. They will know little about nutrition and won't be able to implement their new lifestyle appropriately.
Ethan Gomez
Was just curious what kind of response I'd get from you lot.
Cameron Jenkins
I started the vegetarian (not fully-vegan) diet for health and weight-loss, but the more I learned about the meat industry, the less and less I wanted to continue eating meat, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else. It is pretty fucked up what the lesser animals go through just so we can be 'full' for a few hours.
Only because you can doesn't mean you should, thats the question you dumbfuck.
Austin Myers
>animals do not contain essential nutrition But that's 100% demonstrably false, you fucking mongoloid.
Adrian Lopez
Different approaches work for different people. Some people don't give a shit about health and nutrition so wouldn't be convinced by a health-based argument, but might empathise with an animal. Someone might not give a shit about animals but wouldn't want to drink pus, hormones, antibiotics, blood and feces in cow milk.
Dominic Adams
>plants have feels too!!! And other retarded drivel. Honestly not worth your time.
Logan Cox
Eating plants literally kills the earth and humans since plants produce oxygen.
Vegans are literally killing us and the planet for their shitty self-righteousness.
Jose Murphy
>preview shows some smug cunt smiling at the camera
I don't think so - if I'm to watch a narration about animals and their "feelings", I'm not going to see some bitch attention-whoring it to me
Ryder Ramirez
...
Jaxon Hernandez
What can you get from an animal that you can't get from plants or otherwise nature? How do you reconcile vegans who, at most, take a B12 supplement due to not being able to get B12 in the modern world, due to sterilised water?
Easton Lewis
I feel it is necessary to keep my quality of life high enough to make it worth. So, yes, I devour animals because I can.
Anthony Nelson
yes. next stupid question.
Adrian Morales
...
Julian Garcia
Don't judge a YouTube vid by its thumbnail. Changed my life, and it's not just about the 'feelings' of lesser animals.
>Don't judge a book by it's cover, but no one reads anymore.
John Cook
nice argument
Cooper Bailey
I can use the same logic to justify raping women, children and dogs because it makes life worth it.
Cooper White
...
Brayden Russell
You're fucking stupid, bro
James Hill
End of discussion
Grayson Cox
...
Carson Adams
I'm just as much of an animal as the rest of the other animals are. Why am I not allowed to act like other animals and eat the animals and vegetables I like? I wouldn't eat McDonalds though, that is shitty food.
Justin Roberts
You're making the claim we need to eat animals. (Positive claim = positive evidence. Eating animals is not a 'default' position but a specific action that you claim is necessary.) Can you provide any externsive evidence that animals contain something that cannot be gained from other means? Especially from modern farmed animals sans injections using plant/algae-based supplements?
Literally the only thing that cannot be gained from a vegan diet in a large amount (B12 -CAN- be gained from food, there are many herbs that you can grow in your own garden or can be grown in the soil mixture of plants to provide additional b12) is l-carnithine. Even this CAN be gained, levels in vegans vs omnivores are not that much lower, but lower enough that it is worth supplementing.
Are you really suggesting that because somebody cannot be bothered to take a pill or two every week, we must massacre millions of self-aware beings capable of feeling pain?
Are you a satanist by any chance?
Nathaniel Wood
FUCK bitches.
Samuel Ward
because we were naturally born to eat both meats and vegetables just like a pack of wild dogs will have no problem eating a baby infant or a 90 year old lady.
Adam Johnson
dub chek
Jaxson Brooks
>Another question for you: if it's because of sentience, the ability to feel and suffer that we ascribe moral value to the life of a human being, and because of this it becomes unethical to harm a human being without proper justification, how then, can you justify harming an animal without proper justification? justification for harming a human: he thinks differently from the norm, or worships another god justification for harming an animal: he's made of food, or has something we need (leather, wool...) or parts of its genetics are close enough to humans that we can use them to test medicine that could save your kid or clean the world without having to experiment on humans
>What is the trait not present in human beings, which is present in an animal, which allows you to remain ethically consistent and still harm that animal? What is the key difference that justifies, for example, a pint of cow's milk? bitch i'd drink a pint of tit milk if i could find a cute lactating girl also, milking doesn't hurt cows/goats... and it's something that's absent: an affective link or thoughts. I'd eat some random human (assuming i'm 100% sure it's clean) but i wouldn't eat my dog, catch what i'm saying?
Luke Anderson
No better alternative currently. If I can substitute my animal diet with plants which taste better and more nutritious, I would fucking do it.
Josiah Powell
ITT: Vegans VS Anons that don't know how to form logical arguments.
Liam Hughes
>why am i not allowed cus others are doing it hurdur
All the other cool kids are smoking crack, why shouldn't I?!?!
You are not a lion, you do not require raw/living flesh to survive. You are a necrophagic scavenger, a strategy adopted in times of famine.
Dylan Fisher
...
Ethan Hernandez
Obviously a city boy whose never raised his own food. A vegan would expend more energy growing his food than he would be able to recover eating it.
Anthony Green
Yes, but watch the video first.
Xavier Fisher
being vegan is supposed to be logical? lmao.
Ryder Foster
Also before you ask me why I don't eat humans, too much risk of disease.
Christopher Nguyen
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Caleb Allen
i'll bite this avarage bait >Is it possible on an ethical or logical basis to treat an animal this way? yes. animals are grown for meat. it is their purpose in this world. to become our food. we have selectivly bred them to have more meat/fat, to produce better tasting milk etc.
Asher Martin
A dog can be vegan you dolt, it's a matter of opportunity and choice. (A cat can't because it is an actual carnivore)
"naturally born to"
No, examine your teeth. Examine your own fucking colon. We are frugivores who occasionally eat bugs. In modern times there is no need for the bugs unless you're fucking poor.
We are also "naturally" born to be naked, does that mean we shouldn't wear clothes? We're also "naturally" born being irrational insufferable little pricks, should parents then not train them to be nicer?
Jackson Hernandez
But why are you holding me to a separate standard if animals are supposedly our equals? Also on a more serious note, I have a chronic disease that makes it hard for me to absorb nutrients. If I were to live on a vegan diet, I would have to use 18 hours each day eating broccoli or other such protein rich vegetables just to function.
Jacob Gomez
Stop eating meat for 60 days straight and then try to eat it, you'll feel like shit because it's not natural. We did way back there, when were starving fucking savages
Nolan Perez
Don't have to deal with the meat industry if you go hunt your own. Fuck all of you, I hunt for my own venison, hog, Turkey, etc. I buy very little meat from the store, maybe a ribeye steak every now and then because I can't go shoot a cow legally. Proper hunting techniques are ethical, cause the animal less pain, and prevent over-population of certain species which is necessary for the environment as a whole. Fuck you vegans and you're "all meat is bad cuz I know better than you"
Christopher Allen
I'm not a vegan, but I do agree it's the most ethical thing to do. I also think it's more logical than eating meat. Pretty much the only thing preventing me is the high prices of some of these vegan meat replacements. Also their lack of availability. And cheese. I fucking love cheese, and the mock cheese is absolutely disgusting and nothing like cheese at all.
Ryan Jenkins
Your*
Adrian Wright
No this is what this thread boils down to at its most basic level and since you have admitted that given no choice & circumstance that you would eat meat then you are not a vegan your just picky
REEEEEEEEEEEE reeeeeeeeeeeeee REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Evan Robinson
shes a qt tho
Chase Rogers
a frugivore is a mix of a herb and a carn
Luis Bailey
>go hunt your own Great, and everyone goes to do that, and we have a redux of what we faced mid-1900s with the white-tailed deer in North America.
But no thanks, I'd rather grow my own food in a sustainable environment. Meat actually *is* bad for you regardless of where it comes from; it's just a matter of *how* bad.
hunting helps animals in alot of ways >helps biodiversaty >controled populations >they live in the wild rather than some farm and the meat tastes better
Jeremiah Hughes
Appeal to nature fallacy. I'm not asking if you can justify harming animals to save lives. I'm asking if you can justify harming animals when you don't need to.
Uh, drinking milk definitely hurts cows and goats. It's for their calves, not humans, for a kickoff. But yeah, I understand why you would give your dog more value than a random human. That doesn't justify killing the human though.
Jackson Perez
>we were naturally born to eat both meats and vegetables Oh is that why we have to cook our meat first? Gee really made me think.
Wyatt Bailey
Yeah, but there are more people now, and if everyone decided to go hunting for their food, it'd cause much more damage to the environment and the populations (of the lesser animals) than help.
A person should learn to grow and stockpile their food, leaving the lesser animals alone.
Just within a physical context, and I hope I can say this correctly, the entire balance in the known universe hinges on devouring and producing. In order for one to survive, one must devour and reproduce in order to thrive. So, eating meat, vegetables, fruit, and grains ultimately is part of the nature we must live through for our own means of survival. There is not a wrong or right way to kill an animal. There is only the end result of doing so for a purpose. There is no wrong or right way for an extermination of plants. There is only an end result. Everything is hostile. Everything is devouring something else to move forward. That's why this entire vegan vs. meat-eater debate is fairly old.
I do find it hilarious though that vegan cadavers will one day be meat for something when they rot.
Kayden Taylor
We evolved to eat meat, it's that simple. Morality and ethics is a purely human concept that is based in emotional bullshit. The mere fact that you argue about the "morality" of eating animals is just a display of your privilege.
If it makes you feel better to be a vegan then go ahead, but don't go shove it down other peoples throats or walk around feeling all superior. All it means is that you are a slave to your emotions.
Owen Martinez
I cant justify it no but most my meat and eggs come from our animals. They live pretty awesome lives until we eat them. Lets just say if we dont eat them another animal will. I've had goats killed by dogs, chickens killed by racoons skunks and hawks. And im sure a hungry bear would kill and eat you if it saw you. Not justified but its nature. Most people forget we are part of the food chain too. I guess what I mean is i don't need to justify nature. If we were vegitarian animals we'd probably be too stuipid still to be even having this discussion. Guess my justification is were the dominant species for a reason
Jaxon Butler
So assigning purpose to something and breeding it that way ethically justifies harming it? We can genetically breed women to be perfect for getting raped, and systematically rape them, and that's fine? How far would you extend the logic of "bred for the purpose" Fair enough. I'm personally an ethical vegan but I try to eat for optimal health, so I don't eat any of the veggie burgers and shit out of choice.
Angel Sanchez
what you cant cook faggot? we are not carnivores remember.
Cameron Brooks
Last I checked my life isn't about min-maxing on garden vegetables. Also the question OP is less about what traits an animal has that a human doesn't, it's more about what traits a human has that an ANIMAL doesn't. Basically animals aren't my fellow humans so I'll eat the shit outa them. They lack the consciousness that humans have. So I eat them.
Dylan Lee
>What can you get from an animal that you can't get from plants or otherwise nature? The delicious taste of meat? The money i don't have to spend on vitamin supplements? >You're making the claim we need to eat animals. No, I was saying the claim that animals contain no essential nutrition is bullshit.
Really the nutrition issue doesn't even matter to me, I eat meat because it tastes good, and having to give it up would lower my QOL. >Are you really suggesting that because somebody cannot be bothered to take a pill or two every week, we must massacre millions of self-aware beings capable of feeling pain? it's more like billions of sombodies can't be bothered (or dont have access) to take pills every week, but pretty much yeah. There will always be someone willing to slaughter animals for the profit no matter how the majority views animal rights, so there's no point in me trying to go vegan to make some sort of moral stand, when it would be hypocritical of me to do so since i clearly enjoy eating meat. Not a satanist though, just an agnostic who raised catholic.
Dominic Bell
> drinking milk definitely hurts cows and goats actually NOT milking cows and goats hurts the animals try breastfeeding and tell me you're not releved when that baby has emptyd your painful sacks of liquid
i bet you think eating eggs is wrong too
Benjamin Robinson
I don't have to justify it
Robert Roberts
kek
Adrian Anderson
Is it ethical for an alien to eat you?
Or are you a CUCK who believes might makes right?
Anthony Long
you have to cook vegatables too faggot
Nathaniel Collins
>Life is shit >therefore make it extraly shit, unnecessarily, because it's edgy
Families often argue, so why not beat your kids? XDDD Life is pain anyway XDDDdddddddddddddddddd
Christian Williams
>I don't eat any of the veggie burgers and shit out of choice. I agree that would be the best thing to do. I guess I'm just addicted. I eat a lot less meat than I used to before I realized the vegan logic, but still. I have a lot of respect for vegans, maybe one day I'll find the strength to join you.
Carson Clark
The fuck has ethics got to do with it?
Leo Lee
The guy who posted that is another obese Amerilard. I'm contemplating going vegan for my well being. I wish it'd have an impact on the animals well being but I can't control that.
Samuel Russell
well growing food is all well and good but if you want a healthy and balaced diet than meat is essential
William Adams
Your teeth are frugivorous Your colon is for vegetation You cannot digest raw meat like a big cat does You will not die without meat
You did not evolve to eat meat.
if you want to eat it, fine. Just admit you place the value of the animals suffering beneath your own. That is the only reason.
Liam Moore
I think you missed the point entirely and have placed meaning outside of the realm of this discussion, friend.
Levi Bennett
No you don't, retard. It's a lot better when you do, sure, but most vegetables can be eaten raw perfectly fine.
Zachary Johnson
Plants feel pain too. This is scientific fact. The only difference between a vegan and a regular (normal) person is the vegan tells them self it's okay because they can't hear a cry from the plant like you would the slaughtered animal. Outnofnsight out of mind. Basically vegans brace ignorance and just want people to be like them. Fuck a vegan.
Jason Long
OP doesn't understand how wasteful and inefficient vegans are OP might have had a proper argument if hadn't gone full retard and only said vegetarian
So for the animal standards. Animals don't have a conception of ethics and morality. I hold humans to standards of logic and reason because they can understand them. Animals act primarily on instinct, so I'm not going to attempt to explain animal rights to a lion.
As for bizarre medical issues, if eating other animals is the only way for you to have optimal health, I won't hold it against you. This thread is more for people who could go vegan but choose not to. Okay, but we're talking about doing the least amount of harm possible in order to be as moral as possible, not saying morals are subjective, and that everything dies anyway so fug it. Saying ethics is subjective is a poorly thought out answer to an ethical question.
I'm not trying to be superior or force anything on people. I'm debating on a thread you have every right to click away from. Keep yourself here if you want to.
Owen Gutierrez
lolwat? Of course I can cook...? How else would I be eating meat? Have you always been this dumb?
Wyatt Richardson
I'm neither a) holding you to a separate standard nor b) saying animals are your equals
I am saying that you 1) Do not require meat to live (like a carnivore does) and that 2) Causing unnecessary suffering is not a good thing
These two points are undeniable. Either admit you place the value of 10 seconds of mouth-taste over the life of an entire suffering, thinking being, or continue lying to yourself. It's okay, none of us are perfect.
Aaron Gutierrez
It really isn't. Everything you get from meat (except maybe B12), you can get from fruits, veggies, nuts, and grains.
Luke Fisher
>Your colon is for vegetation Nope, it's way too short to be called vegetarian >You cannot digest raw meat like a big cat does We can digest raw meat just fine, many cultures still do today.
