What is the gospel?

>What is the gospel?
The gospel is the message that Jesus Christ, although existed in the very form of God, did not consider that equality something to be held onto and chose to leave that heavenly place, enter into his own creation and die for the sins of his people. But guess what he rose on the third day because death could not hold it's grip on the blessed son of God and when you are resurrected on the day of judgement the same spirit that raised Christ from the dead will also be the same spirit that raised you on the last day.

>How to enter heaven
One enters into heaven through faith alone, for Christ had already died for our sins and so what could we possibly add on to that? Are we to say that the blood of Christ is not sufficient and we are to add onto that? No, his blood cleansed us of sin and to be cleansed of your sins you first must believe and Christ will do the rest.

I invite Christians, agnostics, atheists and everything in between, that includes people of other faith, to discuss Christianity and learn more about the largest religion in the world. God bless! I the past I have tried to appeal to non-believers by kinda white washing but now, none of that but also be prepared because you might not get the answers you like although they might be true. I have also created a discord server which is mainly for Christians and non-believers looking for a discussion. It's not really meant for discussion, but if you do cause trouble, you will be removed from the server.
>.gg/AyQfdQW

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[spoiler]Also, Here's a nice pic for taking the time to actually read my OP.[/spoiler] God bless!

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biblegateway.com/passage/?search=james 2:14-20
youtu.be/ZmSXeNzPyc4
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>enter into his own creation and die for the sins of his people
>die for the sins of his people
>die
Doesn't even count as a sacrifice when he can respawn at will.

I choose to believe that Jesus, God, and the holy spirit are 3 separate beings.

Just imagine if the whole Jesus thing happened in the 19th or early 20th century and he was killed by firing squad. Everyone would be wearing necklaces with little gold rifles instead of crosses.

It was because death cannot hold it's grip on the son of God and so by the power of the holy spirit he was raised again on the 3rd day and is the same spirit that raised Christ from the dead will also be the same spirit that raised you on the last day.

The Heavenly Council is now debating whether feminine penises are a real thing.

God: No
Jesus: Hell yea!
Spirit: Who cares?
Satan: *unzips*

NO! NO! AND NO! you have to be a decent human being your not just forgiven of sins. If you ask for forgiveness and truly want forgiveness and have resentment and believe in God you can earn entrance other wise Hitler would be in heaven because he is Cristian but he is a sinner and sinners go to hell you are fucking retarded. PS angels and soldier's not whatever the fuck most people think they are and God is wrathful so if you sin it is NOT washed away by the blood of Christ because otherwise only nonbelievers would go to hell

>many
[citication needed]
Anyways: It's always nice to have christianity here, it has a largely positive influence on peoples behaviour, so for that i can accept that. I don't agree with a lot of it because i understand that the bible was tailored for people roughly 2000 years ago. When extracting the social main aspects of it you come to the values of western civilization. The actually civilized ones anyways.

In the end i don't need to believe in a sky daddy who wants me to stop masturbating in order to be a good human and i consider it a waste of time, but whater floats your boat.
It was a guidance at some points, but i can live by those main rules without hoping to get into some wonder land.

Then you are a heretic who does not believe in the true triune god. But we can discuss our differences.

Actually, the cross was a much later thing. It was originally a fish due to Jesus saying to Andrew if he follows him he will make them fisher of men but was later on changed.

What are you talking about?

Good question! I deliberately not include the answer so that people can ask this question and I can respond to it. The reason why I do this is because I believe that through conversation and effective questioning it can cause you to think deeper about the truth of the gospel. Ok, I'll begin.

Yes, we are saved by faith alone apart from works. This is an undeniable truth of scripture Jut look at this verse from Romans in the Bible

>For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Romans 3:28

But then this make one wonder. Doesn't this contradict James?

>You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
James 2:24

But what one must first understand is that there are two kinds of faith. One is false faith, the type that even the devil has, then there's true faith; the type that brings forth good fruits IE proof of it's existence by doing good works. A better verse to understand this would be on James as well.

>biblegateway.com/passage/?search=james 2:14-20
James 2:14-20

So what does this tell us? It says that if you have faith but it does not bring good fruits then it is false. A truly saved man will do good works not to get something out of God since his heavenly place has been set for him since he has been saved by the blood of Christ but rather that we do it out of love. You treat your children nicely out of love not to seem good to them, and so we do the same for god. We love God and so try to please him. Theoretically, you could be saved and go out on a murder spree, but you wouldn't do that due to your love of God.

Hope that answered your question.

>death cannot hold it's grip on the son of God
Which is why it's not really a sacrifice on his part. It's barely even a token gesture when you consider that he has infinite continues.

You people act like it was this great selfless gesture but it was an absolute pittance

why did jesus have to die for our sins if he is literally god? i'm a christian, i try to live my life the way it seems jesus would have me live it, but some of this doesn't make sense. for a long time as i understood it, jesus is the son of god just like if you or i had a son, that son would be a part of us but not literally us. see what i'm getting at here? i want to please god but in order to serve someone you have to undersstand what they want and preferably WHY they want it

>I don't agree with a lot of it because I understand that the bible was tailored for people roughly 2000 years ago.
Yes, but it is still applicable till today. Also, Christianity has given the west most of its modern ideas of morality which the West is starting to lose and thus bringing the downfall of the western society.

>In the end, i don't need to believe in a sky daddy who wants me to stop masturbating in order to be a good human, and I consider it a waste of time, but whatever floats your boat.

Cont...

>In the end i don't need to believe in a sky daddy who wants me to stop masturbating in order to be a good human and i consider it a waste of time, but whater floats your boat.

Another good question. Thank you for giving me the privilege of answering such an important doctrinal teaching.

When you say good, to who standards are we talking about? If we're talking about man's standards then is that good enough? We as humans have immensely low standards when compared to that of the creator of the universe, and it is his standard, at the end of the day, that we must fulfil in order to achieve eternal life.

There is, in fact, a story in the OT that directly answers your query. Read this from Isaiah...

>And I said: "Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!"
Isaiah 6:5

Now, this verse might not make a lot of sense to you but here is the context. Here, Isaiah is speaking, who was the most holy man in all of Jerusalem. If you saw him, you would think to yourself that he is clearly a man sent by God. He might have even of thought of himself like this also, but who was he comparing himself to? To other people! But in this wonderful verse Isaiah sees the Lord surrounded by all of his angels as they scream "Kadosh", which mean Holy, Isaiah looks in awe and finally sees the true standards of goodness. As what does the most holy man in all of Jerusalem say, if not then the world? "I am a man of unclean lips, surrounded by people of unclean lips".

You see Isaiah saw the true standards that needed to be met and after seeing it, he saw his true sinful self. And so we must think the same of all people. No one is without sin, and because of this, we all deserve death. But if one humbles himself believes then he is saved.

>Which is why it's not really a sacrifice on his part.
It is since he was slain for the remission of our sins.

>You people act like it was this great selfless gesture but it was an absolute pittance
In fact, it was since he didn't even have to do it but did so out of love.

>"And I saw the number of them that were sealed and they were a hundred and forty and four thousand of the twelve tribes of Israel and these were the chosen of God."
It plainly states that 144,000 jewish men (the "them" was masculine in the original text) are chosen. So no, not everyone who believes gets in. In fact, thanks to World War II it's almost certain that those 144,000 seats are all already filled.
>you could be saved and go out on a murder spree, but you wouldn't do that
unless you wanted to earn 72 virgins in heaven. It's the same god, after all.
What's that I hear you thinking?
His book is wrong but yours is right?
I wonder why you're so confident about that.

>why did Jesus have to die for our sins if he is literally God?
Because only a sinless man can die for the sins of a sinful people. Think of it this way. Say you're I court, and Joseph Stalin is put on trial for his crimes then Hitler comes in and says no take me. What do you think they're gonna do? Do you think they're gonna let Stalin go and punish Hitler? Of course not but instead they will both be put into jail. So only a sinless man can take on the sins of a sinful people.

> I'm a Christian, I try to live my life the way it seems Jesus would have me live it, but some of this doesn't make sense. for a long time as I understood it, Jesus is the son of God just like if you or I had a son, that son would be a part of us but not literally us.
read> see what I'm getting at here? I want to please God, but in order to serve someone you have to understand what they want and preferably WHY they want it
Great, thanks for asking. Go read my OP, and you will realise that it is faith alone that saves.

>at the end of the day, that we must fulfil in order to achieve eternal life.
I think i'll take my chances on burning for eternity.
>"I am a man of unclean lips, surrounded by people of unclean lips"
I don't get what you're getting at, people curse and insult each other - that's bad, but not doing it is basic empathy and social understanding.
>You see Isaiah saw the true standards that needed to be met and after seeing it
Well but i aperrently didn't, shit sucks :((((
>we all deserve death
I don't think so, but whatever - you call it gods will, i'd call it physics - not that much of a difference here.

Anyways: If you seem so bible knowing - what do you Think would happen if we copied a human atom by atom - would the soul split or doubled?
>inb4 that's impossible
We will get there, maybe in a 1000 years or so, but we will get there.

>he was slain
No, he wasn't. Not the same way you or I could be slain. He was merely bumped from the server for three days. He lost absolutely nothing in the process of enacting this "sacrifice". He isn't missing out on anything. So what if he didn't choose to stay on earth after resurrecting, or didn't choose to make himself another mortal form? It's not like dying on the cross somehow made him unable to do those things (all-powerful, remember?).

Now if Jesus was a real person, who *wasn't* God himself, and he let himself be killed so that his followers wouldn't be captured and killed, THAT would be a noble sacrifice. But if he's the almighty, then he didn't sacrifice a fucking thing because he's still the almighty.

>It plainly states that 144,000 Jewish men (the "them" was masculine in the original text) are chosen. So no, not everyone who believes gets in. In fact, thanks to World War II it's almost certain that those 144,000 seats are all already filled.
Are you discord user "Obidiencetogod?" Anyway, I'll answer.

First of all, I don' think it says that only Jews will be saved. In fact, from reading the rest of the chapter, it seems to say something far from that. Before I carry on, I want you to keep total depravity in mind. Ok,

In verse 9 I talks about goyim IE all other tribes nation and languages. But look at what it says afterwards. That they were wearing white robes washed in the blood of Christ Rev 7:9 and 7:14. Only the saved can be washed and cannot go hell because to be washed in the blood would mean that Christ died for you and took your sins on the cross. Also, it mentions them exalting God shouting out “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” As we know from total depravity, no sinner could make this type of statement, and it be sincere. One can also see from the theme that it feels happy and they are praising God ins stereotypical cartoon clothing that being white robes. This chapter doesn't at all talk about only Jews going heaven but just exclusively talks about each individual's peoples salvation not that one will while.

>unless you wanted to earn 72 virgins in heaven. It's the same god, after all.
No, you've missed my point. If you did that, then you aren't truly saved. Perhaps that would be the case in Islam but I'm not a Muslim, but a Christian and we do not condone that type of behaviour.

>I think I'll take my chances on burning for eternity.
You have the freedom to do that and more "power" to you.

>I don't get what you're getting at, people curse and insult each other - that's bad, but not doing it is basic empathy and social understanding.
Re-read what I wrote. He was the holiest man in all of Jerusalem, and when he saw true objective goodness, he realised he was not as good as he thought.

>Well but i apparently didn't, shit sucks :((((
Just bare in mind that he was the holiest man in Jerusalem.

>I don't think so, but whatever - you call it gods will, I'd call it physics - not that much of a difference here.
What point are you trying to make? Are you saying physics says that we all deserve death? I think that's biology. Also, you've missed the point. In Christian lexicon, death means eternal separation from God.

>Anyways: If you seem so bible knowing - what do you Think would happen if we copied a human atom by atom - would the soul split or doubled?
I don't know what you're asking. Perhaps rephrase it.

Shameless self bump!

>Not the same way you or I could be slain.
It was just that he rose again. Anyway, his flesh was sinless flesh, and so when he rose again his body did decay like any other body, but that spirit which was gods was raised up and regained its seat in heaven. Your spirit too can gain heaven while your body stays here on earth if you submit to christ.

thanks for addressing my question. i still just don't fully understand the trinity.

....just trying to figure this out. sometimes wonder if me thinking about this stuff makes god angry but it seems like it's better to understand it all(or get as close as we can) than just blindly accept it and have the questions floating around in the backs of our minds causing our faith to be tempted. i struggle with this a lot and it sucks

so god... the same god that is talked about in the old testament, yhwh, left heaven in the form of jesus according to the OP as i can understand it and came down to die for our sins. but i just cant understand why. this is an argument athiests use and it just seems like i'm missing a big step somewhere

>Perhaps that would be the case in Islam but I'm not a Muslim, but a Christian
And in making this statement you are arrogantly assuming that the universe must match your beliefs. Yours is not the original faith of the God Of Abraham, that would be Judaism. Your religion is the sequel, and there were two more sequels after you. Yet you thoughtlessly throw the later works attributed to your own God into the same pile with the old gods and totem spirits.
How can you be so certain that you are right and that the Qu'Aran and Book Of Mormon aren't?
And please don't just go
>because my book says.....
even though I know that's as far as you'll be able to think on the matter.

>if you submit to christ.
And if you don't, who is it that condemns you to eternal perdition?
God himself, right? And Jesus is God, so it's really more of a threat than an offer.
"Do what I tell you or I'll torture you for billions of years." and I'm supposed to feel grateful for the opportunity to be subjugated by someone who threatens me with millenia of torture?

dude god took human form and endured all of what we endure and some to free us from the ties that bind us to death

God knows our pain and more and wants us to be free from it.

he is just finishing what he started

unlike you.

>Just bare in mind that he was the holiest man in Jerusalem.
Which was defined by some people blindly following a given cult. Not that believable people in my book.
>splitting of the soul.
It's a ethical /religious dilemma i'm currently pondering on.
Scientifically we know that a human is compositioned of atoms on a lowest level, we have the technology to prove that.
We can re-create things, or more technically speaking: Copying.
We haven't reached the layer of atoms quiet yet, but we can see it, so i'll just predict that we will be able to do that in a 1000 years.
So at that point we can recreate a person - atom by atom. Both people would feel the same and think the same till both woke up, only one would be a copy of the original.
The question is: Is the copy even a human? Does he have a soul? Does he deserve to be considered human?

>and wants us to be free from it.
Then why is he still causing it?

>Trinity
Ok, I'll start this off the same way I always start of when talking about God. Don't make assumptions about God, his nature and plan. Yes, the trinity is something unique, but despite this, it is a truth found in scripture that we must believe after it has been revealed to us. The Trinity should not give us doubt but rather an insight into the complexity of God where he is one being who has three distinct persons. Despite him having three distinct persons in the one being that is God they are all in essence one. We, a single person sharing one being but we must understand that God is more complex than we are; that is why in the OT notes doing things and refers to himself as "we" in a singular context.

>but I just can't understand why he had to die.
I think I explained this in the comment here: but feel free to ask further if you want more things to be clarified.

There is no need to submit. I did not come to judge.

You only need to believe that I am.

who said he was causing anything?
you have free will
God does not make you do anything
the perfect man would do nothing at all
try again.

>And in making this statement, you are arrogantly assuming that the universe must match your beliefs.
Wow, didn't think it would get so confrontational so quick but I'll answer anyways. That statement was just stating that I am a Christian and not a Muslim and the point you were making was better directed to Muslims.

> Yours is not the original faith of the God Of Abraham, that would be Judaism.
And I believe in Judaism!

>How can you be so certain that you are right and that the Qu'Aran and Book Of Mormon aren't?
It's called studying fam. I used to be a Muslim and have been invited to a Mormon temple. Both didn't appeal to me in the end, and I chose Christ.

>And if you don't, who is it that condemns you to eternal perdition?
God does not send anyone to hell but we do so out of our own free will. God just saves not send to hell.

>so it's really more of a threat than an offer.
he's trying to save you!

>"Do what I tell you or I'll torture you for billions of years."
That's not how hell works. God does not torture anyone, in fact, he isn't then. That's why it's so bad.

>who said he was causing anything?
Uh...God said it.
If you're going to advocate the Bible, you might want to actually read it.
(Isaiah 45:7)

yeah you did explain it but i've got some kinda mental road block there that stops me from understanding it which is maybe for the best. just wish we could go back to "hey dont eat that, you'll die"

Jesus was not Christian.

Christianity is based on his teachings, life and death.

Jesus would be against today's religious dogma.

>Which was defined by some people blindly following a given cult. Not that believable people in my book.
Not really. To give you an insight. He would have been a praying man who was caring and loving and most likely had humbleness and didn't think that he was better than anyone else. Also, it's not a cult. If you look into cults then it you would know that Christianity does not fit into the definition of cult,

who said i was advocating something man has translated countless times and redacted many truths that would challenge the belief system in the first place

>the point you were making was better directed to Muslims.
False.
It applies to any follower of the God Of Abraham. You are wilfully turning a blind eye to the possibility that God's third book is valid.
>didn't appeal to me in the end
>I chose
That won't help you in the slightest if you're wrong. The God described in the Qu'Aran will not exalt you for deciding you didn't like what he had to say in the third book.
>God does not send anyone to hell
Read the fucking book, idiot. It is God himself who casts everyone into the lake of fire.

>The question is: Is the copy even a human? Does he have a soul? Does he deserve to be considered human?
I don't know what this has to do with Christianity, but I'd say I don't know. Yet again I could be wrong.

Also, Isaiah was the most holy man in the world according to the creator of the universe.

Don't worry, if you feel like it you can call it WHATEVER you want to.
If you're serious about it then keep going, but you might wanna leave Sup Forums - this isn't the place for your kind.

II wonder what Exodus 21 1-... has to say?

>yeah you did explain it, but I've got some kinda mental road block there that stops me from understanding it
Perhaps we can discuss these misunderstandings. Feel free to ask more questions.

> just wish we could go back to "hey dont eat that, you'll die"
I mean even that has its flaws. What do you do in situations when you have to kill one to save two? Ethical dilemmas.

>this isn't the place for your kind.
You must go to where the sinners are.
Because that's where you'll find the loli threads.

hes just a piece of the most high.
just like you. but different.

>hey dont eat that, you'll die
Not what happened.
They ate the fruit and gained the knowledge of good and evil. And YHVH said "now they have become as us".

The whole mortality thing was part of God's punishment for eating the fruit, not a direct effect of the fruit.

Hi there from an adherent of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

>It applies to any follower of the God Of Abraham. You are wilfully turning a blind eye to the possibility that God's third book is valid.
If you do bad things, then it is a sign that you are not truly saved. Read those verses in James. It outlines it very well. How can you say you truly have faith when you hate your brother and curse your neighbour? Also, I told you that I have studied those books and I am not turning a blind eye. I know more about Islam and Mormonism than you and ain't the end I chose Christianity.

>Read the fucking book, idiot. It is God himself who casts everyone into the lake of fire.
I have, more so than you and I know that hell is the eternal separation from god. Perhaps bring a bible verse to accompany beside just paraphrasing verses.

If you stare into the abyss the abyss also stares back into you.

youtu.be/ZmSXeNzPyc4

For you user

Thanks for answering my points. Feel free to ask more questions.

Hey, how are you doing?

>If you do bad things, then it is a sign that you are not truly saved
But Jihad is not a bad thing according to the Qu'Aran.
Again, you are blindly assuming that God is somehow bound by your beliefs. How do you feel about taking teenage girls as sex slaves after killing their parents in an invasion? Because that's directly advocated in YOUR bible, to say nothing of the Qu'Aran.

I haven't got the time right now. I'll answer later. God willing.

>Perhaps bring a bible verse
Revelation 20:15
SUCK IT.

>But Jihad is not a bad thing according to the Qu'Aran.
Do you even know what jihad is? Also, not a Muslim.

>misunderstandings
for starters, i get that god is so complex that we probably CANT fully understand him with our uh... puny brains... but jesus being part of that trinity dying to satisfy another part just doesn't click in my brain. i'm not playing it down either. don't misunderstand me there it just doesn't make sense. them all being 3 heads on one body it just seems like god(the father) could have sent the son(portion?) to teach and not suffer right? jesus didn't do anything wrong, yet he was made to hurt for my sins while he is literally a piece of god(i'm probably making another assumption there but i can't help it.) making an offering to himself
this just kinda scares me.

and with the "hey dont eat this you'll die" thing i mean i wish we could go back to the age of innocence and not have to worry about these things and just do as he asks when he asks

see above. and i'm pretty sure god did warn them that the punishment would be death

Yes, I believe that but it is due to the humans and their own actions that they were sent there. Once your time has come, you will be sent to the place you spent your whole life working for.

>they were sent there
BY.
GOD.
HIMSELF.

Of course. Once they died, they were sent into the fire by God but don't take the sent by God part too literally. He didn't force them to sin but rather gave them a way out. But instead they denied it, and so God sent them away from him forever just like they wanted.

The fact that you are willing to watch at some point just melts my heart with joy:) i hope you accept the Lord Jesus Christ soon :)
Said a small prayer for you:)

I do believe in Jesus christ.

Looks like you dont know what jihad is and think it can only be associated with terrorism.
Its the act of doing something good not for selfish reasons.

>gave them a way out
So if I tell you I'll kill you if you don't lick my cock, it's YOUR fault when I shoot you in the head?
Because that's what you're saying here.
It's YOUR fault if he makes good on his THREAT to torture you even though YOU and POSSIBILITY are both his inventions.
Here in the future world of 2017, we call this "Stockholm Syndrome"

Im not a muslim either. Born again believer

> I get that God is so complex that we probably CANT fully understand him with our uh... puny brains
I do believe that, but I have almost never used that form or argumentation and always try to provide an answer that is acceptable to the questioner.

>but Jesus being part of that trinity dying to satisfy another part just doesn't click in my brain
You've got the trinity quite wrong there. They're all fully God. The father, son and holy spirit are all really God but are one in being and essence. But it wasn't just to satisfy. It was to follow justice. You see in the bible the wages of sin if death and so we must pay y going to hell but instead of doing this Christ gives us a way out while still being just. The wages of sin is dealt with by his death on the cross while his mercy is shown by the way that he give his perfect record of obedience to his believers. And all you have to do to attain christ's righteousness is belive.

Ugh im replying anons all wrong

I never even said that it was. he was implying that it was that but I understood that jihad is holy war and can mean fighting in self-defence.

kek=god
pepe=jesus
spirit=autisim
that is all you need to know

Well, your forcing them. Also, you have to bare in mind that we put ourself in this situation. We were originally sinless and perfect in the garden and with God but rebelled against him. God doesn't send people to hell but we send ourselves, and if we only just believe then we would be saved.

Instead, think of it this way. Imagine you're on a sinking ship and a man throughs a rope at you and you don't take the rope and die. Who's fault is it that you drowned and died?

This shit is beyond retarded. Fuck Jesus.

Thanks for joining. If there are any questions, you would like for me to answer then feel free to ask and I will answer to the best of my abilities.

Why are you such a faggot?

...

shadilay my brother

I'm not. Sorry if I come off that way but like I said earlier feel free to ask questions.

>your forcing them
"It can be argued whether a man who does good out of the fear of eternal torment is actually good or merely cowardly"
~Samuel Langhorn Clemens, aka Mark Twain
>we put ourself in this situation
No, a woman made out of a rib and a magic talking snake put us in this situation. I had nothing to do with it.
>God doesn't send people to hell
Yes he does, if you don't do what he tells you to do. Again, Revelation 20:15.
>Who's fault is it that you drowned and died.
Well since in this analogy, the guy throwing the rope is also the guy who sank the ship because he didn't like where it was headed.....

Protestantism is based on old traditional beliefs and follow some of the teachings preached my Thomas Aquinas and other early church fathers.

> first picture is of a girl and a dog
> Sup Forums argues over religion instead of posting girls taking the knot

never change

>you've got the trinity quite wrong there
yeah i figured as much.
so god is so firm in his word that he just died as a way to create a loophole?(poor wording i know).
i promise i'm not retarded but i for some reason get weird when i take dayquil(got a head cold)

on some issues i can just keep praying until i get answers, but this one scares me with jesus' warning about blaspheming the holy spirit

This world is just absolute shit, God or Jesus isn't going to fix it, it can't be fixed.

>"It can be argued whether a man who does well out of the fear of eternal torment is actually good or merely cowardly"
I agree, but we Christians do it out of our love of God because we know that as soon as you believe, then you are going to heaven
>sola Fide
And so when we do works we don't do it to attain heaven because our faith has already granted us that but rather out of love of God.

>No, a woman made out of a rib and a magic talking snake put us in this situation. I had nothing to do with it.
But what they did was sin. Now you sin every day and so have done the equivalent to eating the apple almost every minute.

>Yes he does, if you don't do what he tells you to do. Again, Revelation 20:15.
I know but think of it this way. Who sends a murderer to prison the police or the murderer? Who sends a thief to jail the judge or the thief? Of course, God does the actual action but don't act like it wasn't because of what you did.

>Well since in this analogy, the guy throwing the rope is also the guy who sank the ship because he didn't like where it was headed.
No, we sank the ship ourselves, and by sinning, we sink it even deeper.

It's ok. We are commanded int the Bible to mediate study and preach the message of the bible so people can understand and believe.

>Study this Book of Instruction continually. Meditate on it day and night, so you will be sure to obey everything written in it. Only then will you prosper and succeed in all you do.
Joshua 1:8

But then again it is understandable that you might not understand some things that then needs to be explained.

>He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
2 Peter 3:16

is there a Multiverse?

Read this. I wrote it to answer another user's question and I think that it is applicable here too.

The age old questions of pain and suffering. This question, above all others including those who suppose there are contradictions in the Bible, including those who claim the text of the Bible aren't historically reliable and above those who say that it is a false gospel, is the one is most hard to answer because it involves human emotions as well as brings God benevolence into question.

First, of I would like to say we are sojourners
on this earth. This place on earth should not be seen as a destination but rather a journey. A journey of us seeking to return to our creator and finding Shalom(Jewish word for peace) with him.

In this world, there is pain and suffering, but even in suffering good can come out of it. Through trial and tribulation, we can become stronger and feel better connected to those who have gone through the same pain. A better illustration of what Ia m trying to say can be found in Romans

>Not only that, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope.
>Romans 5:3-4

But you shouldn't lose hope because through this pain and suffering God gives you a light at the end of the tunnel. Christ himself went through pain on this earth: he was ridiculed, spat on, beat and even nailed to a cross naked. And all for what? It was love. He truly sought out your salvation and a way for you to be free form this earthly pain and did so by "suffering."

In the case of your GrandFather, I think you should rest easy. Like you said...

>He always kind to everybody, was religious and loved his family very much.

This was all Christ was asking for, and by your grandfather, following the basic principles of faith he was finally free from suffering and is probably much happier in the place he is now than the happiest person on earth is.

Perhaps, the bible doesn't say anything about it. I have in fact heard Christians promote it. Don't know how it fits into the whole Bible message thing but... hey.

>as soon as you believe, then you are going to heaven
Again, you are presuming that the universe MUST be in accordance with what you've already stated simply felt right to you. Your confidence that the OT is obsolete, the NT is relevant, and the Qu'Aran and Book Of Mormon are irrelevant all hinge entirely on "only things that make sense to me are true".
>you sin every day
I do not. I am a Taoist. I do not "do" anything, I am merely part of what is happening. What you would call my choices are precipitated by my previous experiences. I believe what I believe because I have been led down this path. That your path is a different path from mine is of no concern to me. That your path even exists is clear evidence that it is a part of the Tao. That the Muslim path, the Odinists, the Atheists, even the Scientologists, exist is inherent proof that they have a purpose.

As such, I have no interest in turning you away from your path, I am merely being a whetstone for you to sharpen your points against (and I dare say you do need a bit more sharpening).

>Again, you are presuming that the universe MUST be in accordance with what you've already stated simply felt right to you.
It goes beyond that. I have also looked into it and have chosen Christianity. And in Christianity, it teaches the things, and I am telling you the system of salvation in Christianity.

>Your confidence that the OT is obsolete
Nope, I believe in the OT

>the NT is relevant
Yep!

>and the Qu'Aran and Book Of Mormon are irrelevant all hinge entirely on "only things that make sense to me are true".
Pretty sure I answered this. I used to be Muslims and have been invited to a Mormon temple. I have looked into these religions and have chosen Christianity in the end due to a number of reasons.

>I do not. I am a Taoist. I do not "do" anything, I am merely part of what is happening. What you would call my choices are precipitated by my previous experiences. I believe what I believe because I have been led down this path. That your path is a different path from mine is of no concern to me. That your path even exists is clear evidence that it is a part of the Tao. That the Muslim path, the Odinists, the Atheists, even the Scientologists, exist is inherent proof that they have a purpose.

Again, you are presuming that the universe MUST be in accordance with what you've already stated simply felt right to you. Your confidence that the OT is obsolete, the Taoist religion is relevant, and the Qu'Aran and Book Of Mormon are irrelevant all hinge entirely on "only things that make sense to me are true".

:^)

Step 1: Become Zen Buddhist
Step 2: Stop being dicks to each other and live your life
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

>Also inb4 404

you are spending your entire life trolling yourself

i dont care whether you realize it or not

its monkey brain hogwash, and you try to do mentail gymnastics to make it relevent

Thanks for joining. If there are any questions, you would like for me to answer then feel free to ask and I will answer to the best of my abilities.

Or

Step 1: Become a Christian
Step 2: Have faith in Christ which will lead to you doing good works out of love and not an obligation.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Recieve eternal life!

>only things that make sense to me are true
The Tao that did not include things which confuse me would not be the true Tao. I am not nearly so conceited to presume that I will be able to understand the universe. And you may want to re-read my previous post if you think that I believe your religion is not relevant. I plainly state that its very existence is evidence of its purpose. The blacksmith does not hammer the sword because he does not want it to be a sword, he does it to strengthen the sword. The teacher does not ask difficult questions to convince you that you cannot learn, he does it to prod you into thinking further.

The only question I've ever wondered is why will God do through prayer so many things but he won't heal an amputee?

You do good works as a zen buddhist because they're good works and you're a decent human being, not because you're required to do them

They r seperate

He did do those things during his time on earth but all that he got was a nail through the hands. Also, try reading my comment here.

I don't even do good works because the works I do are not my own but rather good working through me. This is good because I cannot boast about how good I am or how better I am than someone else since the good works I do is not even my own.