ITT: your thoughts on the finale for Samurai Jack

ITT: your thoughts on the finale for Samurai Jack

Question: I wasn't keeping up with people's reactions of the show. Why did Sup Forums and tumblr lose their shit over Jack and Ashi? Like, out of all lazy and forced fictional relationships I can think of, Ashi and Jack's relationship, even if you didn't like it, does not seem to be a particularly terrible offender. She was built up as a character and their relationship had time to blossom (well I think so, considering there were only ten episodes). So why are so many people saying "ITS FUCKING SHIT"?

I asked this on Sup Forums but it takes forever.

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Why this season have only 10 episodes ?

mfw it was all for nothing

Because the episode wasn't just 20-22 minutes of straight up Jack vs. Aku. But for what we got I thought it was a pretty satisfying ending to the show.

Because people like to complain.

I knew Ashi was gonna die but I expected her to kill herself while trapped in the suit.

But for what it's worth it at least finished the story it was telling - which was Jack's journey to defeat Aku. Also the use of the original monologue from the original seasons was a neat meta callback.

I am so fuckin disappointed about Ashi's death. I mean come on, it's a cartoon, some things can have some fuckin full happy endings, why literally everything in modern artistic culture tends to make some small flaw in the ending

...

Jack deserved a better ending than a fucking ladybug. It's Gurren Lagann all over again.

Yeah I will admit that part was underwhelming. People had been waiting for like 13 years for the show to come back and Jack barely fights Aku before killing him.

say something remotely smart. Your shitty jpg didn't set a bar high, so you have a shot

>youtube.com/watch?v=X-2q4H6IzUo

yes this

I mean, he got what he wanted minus the girl in the end - got back home from the future and beat the bad guy.

I don't think it was a matter of being good or bad, it was whether it was satisfying or disappointing and really it was both.

Well if they wanted to be consistent she had to die since Aku never existed. The only way Ashi could have stayed would be if Jack had stayed in the future and killed Aku then (which I think could've been just as good an ending).

They shouldn't have gone into the past. Ashi could have lived if they just killed aku there. Not to mention the Scotsmans daughters ceased to exist. Something I don't think he'd appreciate

For few seconds I thought that Jack would create new Aku. Last scene he went to some dark forest, and as we know, Aku himself was borned from some evil tree shit. I thought that Jack would somehow create Aku so the Ashi would be alive again (one day)

It's the way they showed it. If she disappeared as soon as Aku was dead it would be ok. But giving us a wedding scene and then erasing her at the last second is a poor choice.

Yeah it's not that ashi died ys the fact we were cockslapped by a wedding tease

Yes but Aku had destroyed a large portion of the world and they would have to spent decades (if not more) rebuilding everything. Don't you think it's better to prevent and the pain and suffering Aku caused in the first place? Not to mention, Jack had an incentive to go back since he would be with his people in his village again, something that wouldn't have been possible if he stayed in the future.

i don't consider their relation shit, but i think that, focusing on a romance, when there's like 10 episodes left to finish the plot, they should have increased the pace a bit there, first episodes were awesome, the rest felt slow imo, and made the finale look rushed, i think the season had a bad pacing overall, although i've enjoyed it mainly because it was Samurai Jack after all, also because of pic related

i also didn't like how they plagiarized TTGL's ending poorly

I suppose you're right

Back off beardsley. Where is your bride? Wait. Don't tell me. You. Lost. Your. Wife.

I think the pacing was fine until they got to episode 6-7. But yeah the finale felt rushed. Judging from the pacing, it's like they were planning to release 4 or 5 more episodes. Did they stick with ten on purpose or was it because of some financial limitation?

...

A wild Slaton sister appears unwanted in a Samurai Jack thread.

am i the only one who would pay for a Scaramouche spin-off rather than more Jack?

I want an aku spin off...

You are the only one

Scaramouche was kinda enjoyable, but as a side character. Imagine him being the star of several episodes.

It's like with minions from Despicable. They are pretty fun to watch as short animation or some background characters, but their own movie sucked balls

Well yeah, logically of course Ashi was doomed from the start (assuming Jack would go back in time and not just kill future Aku). It's just kinda sad, I have noticed that recently many games, books, movies, animations, series etc. just can't allow themselves to have a happy ending. It's kinda depressing; everybody thinks it would be boring cliche, but come on, even a cartoon for kids about righteous samurai couldn't have a happy ending? Sigh...
so yeah, logically you are right. Still kinda shame though.

So much this. Goofy and entertaining side characters are fun in small doses. They lack any real depth to be the focus of the story.

scramuche and aku spinoff where they parody television

(a)cooking with sacramouche

well, either this or a bitch
I'd take the bitch

the happy ending happened
we were just overwealmed by ashi coming with, the pointless death at the altar, and no jack vs aku last stand

aku is so terrible, he should have been beaten in the future and in the past alike, instead the fight was avoided...
so much waste storywise

>I have noticed that recently many games, books, movies, animations, series etc. just can't allow themselves to have a happy ending.

It's funny. That type of ending became popular because it provided an alternative to the "happily ever after" cliche that people were growing tired of. But ironically that alternative has sort of become a cliche itself. I don't think there's anything wrong with a happy ending as long as it's not lazily written just to be a crowd pleaser.

wasn't fully happy. You know what I mean, please let's not be nitpicking here

i'm kinda glad that there was no big jack vs aku

people need to mix the two, like not everything is a happy ending but that doesn't mean its all always pain and suffering

also, like i said before, we got the happy ending, aku got back to the past the undid the future that is aku that has been the talk from the start

just the romantic bullshit had to be avoided
read i dont want to write it again

If only they had made like two more episodes it would've been perfect.

Cool. Now if you would ask Jack which ending would be happier for him: returning to past and defeating Aku or returnin to past, defeating Aku and still having Ashi, then guess what answer he would give you.

Please don't write again, like anything ever

the only part that was not happy was jack losing the love of his life

kinda meaningless really, at this point...
i do appriciate the relationship the had, it was called for.. but futile(especially after that reveal in 09).. the weight of the world is not something you can compare to a first love..
also losing those redheads is kinda sad (scotsman never existed)
why? streach it out more?

are you daft?
im not saying it was a perfectly happy ending
im saying jack got what he has been looking for from the start, a way to defeat aku and go back to the past
the ashi part was saddening, but kind of a tease imo
also, get fucked

haven't seen the eps yet but basically this. i'd be mad if there wasn't at least an entire episode dedicated to finishing the story in the best way possible: final boss fight.

if you put it like this
>we got the happy ending, aku got back to the past the undid the future that is aku that has been the talk from the start
>just the romantic bullshit had to be avoided

then don't be surprised that your words are interpreted in a way that accepts actual finale as a fully happy ending

fuck redheads, they were all bad
should have way bigger tits

yes, ashi part was saddening, that's why I'm not fully ok with how it all ended. It's a cartoon for kids, I'm pretty sure that author could come up with any bullshit excuse to defy that "interfering with time and fate" issue. I don't know, some japanese monk summoning Ashe's spirit from the time zone or some other mumbo jumbo

I am not saying current ending is bad as of "low quality", and yes it is happy. I am just saying that I was hoping for the happiest one.

It's not that it wasn't a happy ending. The point of and is that writers nowadays seem incapable of having a happy ending without some element of tragedy for fear it might look lazy and cliched. But ironically, those kind of endings have become cliched and predictable. For example I (and probably most people) knew with absolute certainty that Ashi would die at the end. Not because the story hinted at it, but just because we've seen that kind of formulaic writing thousands of times before. If they had managed to pull off a happy ending that was consistent with the story where Ashi and Jack lived happily ever after, I would have been surprised.

Not to stretch it out more but make the finale a two or three part episode. Didn't you say that the finale was rushed?

>writers nowadays seem incapable of having a happy ending without some element of tragedy for fear it might look lazy and cliched

exactly this

some writers deliberately killed off their characters so they could move on to other projects.

Tumblr is probably just upset because Jack didn't get into a gay relationship

>cartoon for kids
>released on adult swim
>whose target audience were kids who watched the show years ago who are all in their twenties now

Faggot do you want me to tip my fedora and start monologuing about how anime is the greatest art form ever invented too?

now the tragic ending is starting to become a cliche of the cliche. Talk about irony

Yes, I'd love to.
Please don't fuck with me on this one, you are well aware it's not some fucking dark animation, it's not fuckin Spawn man with a pedophiles and demons. It's a goddamn cartoon for kids and doesn't matter if it is released on fuckin porn channel, GoreZoneTV, adult swim or fuckin hannah montana vlog

Scenario 1: Time is linear. When Jack went back to the past and killed Aku he erased the Future That is Aku. This erased i.e. killed all of his friends and allies and the innocent people of the future. This makes him a mass-murderer orders of magnitude worse than Hitler.

Scenario 2: Time is divergent. When Jack went back to the past and killed Aku he created a new timeline, a Future That isn't Aku. Remember that Jack did not kill Future Aku before traveling to the past. In this case, Jack abandoned all of his friends and allies and the innocent people of the future to deal with the Future Aku on their own.

Either way you slice it, Jack is a fucking dick.

Christ user I was just meme'ing

yeaaa i know, sr man, I'm easily triggered today

kek

pretty soon Sup Forums will get upset when they notice that before her death Ashi wasn't revealed to be futa and didnt fuck Jack in the ass

Is everything ok?

how does going back in time to kill the evil being kill his future allies? wtf?

>implying letting aku is live is less evil than killing him

Scenario 1: people not existing doesnt mean people dead, just not born yet from jacks prespective, also saving all those who aku killed in the present.

scenario 3: jack goes back to the past, aku follows him, epic battle. past aku dies. future aku runs away, jack keeps traveling the world with ashi to find and kill aku

scenario 3.5: future aku dies, past aku lives, bonds with jack (or jacks sword) as a bargin for ashi to stay alive

yeaa i am just, honestly, kinda upset about this ending. it's not like i'm some dude that spends whole days on anime, manga and cartoons, I watched only samurai jack from such things. And recently literally everything I touched, like book, movie or game, have some kind of flawed ending. Like there just has to be a fly in at least one plate on the whole dinner table, just no more happy endings, fuck everything

so i was like "ok, at least samurai jack is a goddamn cartoon, surely he will fuck Ashi balls deep in her mouth"

just bit tired and frustrated because of those "flawed happy endings", they are such cliche nowadays

Picture this, someone goes back in time to kill Julius Caesar before he crosses the Rubicon. The Roman empire never reaches the peak of its power, Catholicism never spreads, the world is changed in innumberable ways etc etc. There's no fucking way you are going to be alive with so many things in history different from the events that led to your conception. That's basically what Jack did to the future. The Scotsman and the ravers etc couldn't possibly exist now.

Yeah I get it. But the problem lies with the way the story was set up. Since Jack killed past Aku, there was no way for Ashi to live. If writers had ignored this fact and let Ashi live, everyone would start throwing a bitch tantrum while shouting "MUH TIME PARODOX". So maybe the tragic ending wasn't a conscious decision, but rather just an inevitable consequence of the story. You could argue that they could have avoided this simply by making Jack kill Aku in the future instead.

But that creates another problem. The entire focus of the story was Jack trying to get back to the past. The first seasons were all about Jack trying to find a time portal to get back to the past. Even the end credits song is "gotta get back, back to the past, Samurai Jack". It would have been awkward for the series to end with Jack in the future instead of him finally getting back to the past.

why would a fight between jack and aku take a whole episode though? Jack always whoops on aku without much effort. It's aku being able to run away everytime that was the problem

>If writers had ignored this fact and let Ashi live, everyone would start throwing a bitch tantrum while shouting "MUH TIME PARODOX".
yes, but let's be honest here, writer has power to do literally anything, he could come up with any explanation, some "japanese monk resurrects Ashi's spirit" mumbo jumbo

writer's powers is the reason batman lives

>not realizing that TTGL was "plagiarizing" almost all classic samurai epics.

Not only were they not the first to do that kind of ending, but it's considered the norm for these sort of stories.

If you have the patience for them, go watch some of kurosowa's catalogue.

I'm totally cool with the ending. Thought it was beautiful, but there really was no reason for ashi to disappear, she was outside of the timeline that got erased, she shouldn't have been affected.
Only thing that bothers me is if ashi got erased, then so should all of jack's memories of the future.

well i just think that if we revived the series for one final run they would make the final episode go out with a bang. i'm thinking of a lot of popular season finales that are usually 2 parters or twice as long as a normal episode would usually be. it's not a standard and not as cliche as some might assess it to be if done the right way. they could have made aku transform into this like level 2 or whatever kinda like frieza transformations. that would be cool

Well yes but knowing how methodical the storytelling is, I doubt the writers could bring themselves to ignore such a blatant plot hole. They definitely could have used a "japanese monk resurrects Ashi's spirit mumbo jumbo", but that would make the ending very contrived.

Then again they did exactly what you described with the Scotsman. I believe the difference is you can forgive lazy writing like that when it involves a goofy side character, not so much when it involves the second main character in the story. As much as I fucking hate to say it, the tragic ending we got is less contrived than a true happy ending like you presented.

The only other way Ashi could have lived would be if Aku wasn't her father.

again i haven't seen it yet so this is pure speculation on my part

yeah, but then they'd have to hack a device together to explain why he never went "level 2" before, and that sort of retconning is always lame.

He already guaranteed that Jack's tale is over, but has expressed interest in telling other stories of the samurai jack universe.

Is jack still in-aging?

yeah i respect that. it's cool when you have a fanbase THAT freaking devoted to your character but you as a writer are just so burned out.

Un-aging

non-aging

>if ashi got erased, then so should all of jack's memories of the future.

Damn I didn't think about this. This is why I typically hate any sort of plot that deals with time/dimension traveling. All it does is create obstacles that forces the writer to make the plot and characters contrived to avoid paradoxes. Or the writer doesn't give a shit and the paradoxes and contradictions hinder the story and characters.

The only show that does inter-dimensional/time travel ok is Rick and Morty but only because the show doesn't take itself seriously.

family guy had a pretty good multiverse theory ep

>All it does is create obstacles that forces the writer to make the plot and characters contrived to avoid paradoxes.
it's actually the average viewer's poor understanding of such things. There's actually no reason that ashi would have to disappear, but people think that it qualifies as a paradox, so the writers have to play to the lowest-common-denominator

WAIT THAT WAS IT? THAT WAS THE FUCKING SEASON FINALE?!?! WHAT THE FUCK

dubs speak he truth

paradoxed can be resolved quite easily with some technical mambo jumbo for the viewers because, hey, its not as if we actually know what happens when a paradox occurs...

ashi could stay alive
the fight with aku could have had the samurai in it
jack could have contracted aku-ness
scotsman could have possesed jack and went back to the past
redheads could have gotten more rule 34|

but no, none of that. that's the end goodbye

To be fair, Ashi tore open a portal in time and dragged him into the past before Jack could say or do anything. Seemed like a split second decision. Maybe Jack would have finished up in first the future if he had the choice.

Paradoxically, however, it seems as though time was both linear and divergent at once. Ashi is linear - she fades away because the timeline that created her was erased. But Jack is divergent - his deeds and memories from the future still stand, or else there would be a universe shredding paradox. Personally I feel that anything relating to time travel must deal with divergent timelines for this reason, but sady this leads us back to scenario 2, wherein his future friends all get squashed by parallel universe Aku.

Cringey and cliche as fuck.

Would've been a better ending if he killed Aku outright there and been stuck in the future and marry Ashi happily ever after.

>but people think that it qualifies as a paradox
I'm confused. How is that not a paradox? Since Jack killed Aku, the timeline where Ashi existed should disappear. Aku never gave the sister his magical cum thingy and Ashi's mom never gave birth to her.

I mean technically the story isn't right either. The Ashi thing deals with the classic Grandfather Paradox. If you go back in time to kill your grandfather, you would never have been born in the first place, so you never could have gone back in time to kill your grandfather. There isn't a straightforward answer to the paradox (no shit, otherwise it wouldn't be called a paradox) so I suppose Ashi disappearing wasn't absolutely necessary.

But while writing this I just realized that Jack was the one who killed her father not her. But wait Jack was only able to kill her father because of her so I guess the above paragraphs still apply.

Time is linear, it cannot loop back on itself, as such the current real theories on plausible Time Travel suggest that when traveling into the past, you're actually traveling to another universe where the current you never existed.

But whatever, blah blah paradox.

our understanding of multidimensional physics has rectified the outcome of the classic grandfather paradox, no one outside of highschool science teachers use it as an example anymore.
This is one of the things that BTTF2 got correct.
You would exist in a different timeline with all of your memories of the previous timeline still intact.

When modern physicists consider paradoxes these days, it's more tuned to the question of how would the universe react to new material being introduced into it, and how identical particles would react to being in close proximity

Speaking of those time paradox:

1. Past Aku sends Jack to the Future of Aku
2. stuff happens, Ashi gets Aku powers and teleports Jack&herself to the Past Aku

And now here is the thing: Past Aku is fuckin surprised to see them. So it's not really that linear I think. It seems more like those were two entities: Past and Future Aku. Like two dimensions - like time wasn't really linear.
Because since Past Aku was surprised too see Jack&Ashi, it suggests that Past Aku has no knowledge of the Future world to which he teleported Jack at the beginning. If Past Aku and Future Aku were one entity, then Past Aku wouldn't be surprised at all
Therefore I don't think that time here is really linear thing

>Time is linear
>traveling to another universe where the current you never existed

Wait you mean traveling to another universe as in the multiverse theory or creating a new timeline. Does time being linear mean it cannot branch off into different alternatives?

Also how much of the topics we are talking about is based on actual physics rather than pure speculation?

>no one outside of highschool science teachers
Faggot stop making me feel self-conscious for using an outdated example.

So when one goes back in time and alters something, that creates a new timeline but the one they changed stays intact?

>defeat aku in the present and travel the world with ashi making the shattered world whole again
>defeat aku in the past and erase everyone you've met over 50 years

wew lads

No, it ceases to exist. But that doesn't affect the now. Just because you killed your grandfather, doesn't mean you would disappear, you would just change how the future plays out and that is it.

The big question to ask is what happens when you add your mass to the universe? The directional inertia you carry with yourself? The extra heat you are putting off?

Also it's always kinda silly how villains, who used some amazing power once, don't use it ever again.

I mean, Aku teleported Jack once. Couldn't he do it again? Does it have some sort of cooldown? Aku is presented as a being of infinite power. It should go totally different

>Aku teleports Jack to the Future of the Aku
>Jack&Ashi suddenly appears
>aku wtf.jpg
>nvm I'm just teleporting both of you because why not, all it takes is waving my hand

It can branch off but if jack traveled back into the past, he didn't do it on his own timeline but into another time line.

The one he left when aku sent him into the future no longer existed.

But its a cartoon, shit like that is irrelevant.