Man, the circlejerk on Sup Forums really is nauseating.
I'm an educated liberal who believes in the importance of leftist/liberal ideas, and why they are important for America. We could have a utopia if we wanted one.
Show me one Utopia in the world and now show me a thriving nation under leftist ideas and socialism. Ill wait.
Ryder Gomez
>We could have a utopia if we wanted one. Why, in the 20,000 years of human societies since ancient times, haven't we had Utipoia before? Why do you think you're capable of having one now?
Oliver Gray
I think 12 would be a good start. 15 might be too high, what we have now is too low.
Norway, Iceland, Finland, Japan, South Korea, China, Ireland, Germany besides the immigrant problems.
Asher Collins
I think there are certain nations on Earth that already qualify as a kind of utopia, I believe America has fit that bill before as well.
Josiah Thompson
Would you spend a week in the ghetto?
Carter Young
Venezuela
checkmate faggot
Eli Gutierrez
I've spent several nights in the ghetto, it's very fucked up for a range of complex reasons.
Dominic Baker
Those countries didn't get rich from socialist ideas. They got rich and then leftism took over.
Kayden Morris
Poor examples as those are all homogeneous civilizations. Don't get me wrong. I admire the 'lofty' ambitions of Liberals/Globalists. But the problem of course is they clearly don't know how to get where they want to go. Hence. Prepare for the God-Emperor.
Brandon Powell
Denmark too.
Gavin Hall
I said thriving user. >China, having good leftist qualities literally a shit hole, the only good city is Hong Kong which is capitalist. China practically uses slave labor. Doesnt that bother you and your $15 minimum>>
Ryder Garcia
Why has the wealth gap increased so much under the liberal politicies of the past 15 years? Why have Obama and Hillary murdered so many brown people in Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen?
Lincoln Moore
What do you think of anarcho primitivism?
The only way to fix all of humanity's problems is to completely abandon technology desu
Asher Kelly
Utopias aren't real just like my waifu.
Jace Scott
Is White pride a good idea?
Christian Perez
Do you have sources on just how much multi-racial/ multiculturalism degrades societies? America has been the most diverse nation on Earth for a long time now and is also the richest.
Parker Ortiz
FUCK!!
Noah Allen
What kinds of drugs were you buying?
Also what's your view on blacks having such high rates of homosexuality and AIDS?
Elijah Turner
If you are a liberal why are you a leftist when a great deal of the authoritarianism is coming from the left in America.
Landon Mitchell
>Japan >socialist >South Korea >socialist >China >not a 3rd world country
Too bad, I was actually hoping this wasn't a troll.
Gavin Moore
It's okay to have pride in your race, I just think a lot of people get too carried away with it and become irrational and hateful. You need to find a balance.
I like it in principle, however the lack of modern medicine completely destroys it as a viable option.
Josiah Collins
this
Jordan Parker
I think there are certain nations on Earth that already qualify as a kind of utopia, I believe America has fit that bill before as well. America has never been a utopia, we may have been a great improvement over the rest of the world because it was basically on fire, but we've never been perfect.
Alexander Nelson
I can't produce the data because the Sociologists shut down any studies which explain why. Perfect example. Look at Putnam, whom once we produced data explaining the problem of Multiculturalism, he scorned the data like a orphan child.
America is also a terrible example. Civic Nationalism is a special kind of Nationalism we've thrown away, and now the Country is breaking apart because of it.
Brody Myers
I was hanging out at my friend's apartment. Do blacks have an abnormal rate of homosexuality?
Because things aren't that simple.
Or leftist. Universal healthcare and education is pretty left compared ot our situation. Pay attention to context.
Ryder Ortiz
>i see things i dont like >ergo, i am better than you, in my own personal opinion >im better than you, but lets speak as equals >p-please validate my existence by talking to me
Here's your (you)
Jonathan Price
> I'm educated
> proceed to get blown the fuck out
Every time
Sebastian Cruz
The 50's, early 60's, 80's, mid to late 90's were really amazing for America.
That's really not that good of an argument man.
Grayson Jackson
>Japan >leftist >South Korea >leftist >China >not a 3rd world country
Luis Bennett
Where did that happen? I'm in the middle of discussions right now. If you'd like to contribute you're welcome to. If you can't stand the heat I suggest you learn your place.
Jonathan Cook
No, you're NOT a liberal. I am a God-Damn liberal and I'm tired of you authoritarian, gun-fearing progressives and marxists stealing that title from me. You fuckers are also why the fascists are coming back; they are a reaction to progressive and Marxist faggotry.
Both you and the fascists should be gassed.
Julian Flores
>I'm an educated liberal >importance of leftist/liberal ideas >We could have a utopia if we wanted one
Luis Gutierrez
What isn't. I threw three at you.
Also. It's interesting that you used the word 'not that good.' If it was a bad argument, you would've used the word 'bad.'
Oliver Gutierrez
>Do you have sources on just how much multi-racial/ multiculturalism degrades societies? I do:
>Norway, Iceland, Finland, Japan, South Korea, China, Ireland, Germany
You forgot America has a population and size many times larger than those nations. Any form of hardcore leftie socialism will NOT work in a huge nation like America due to it's size and population. You have to give people freedom (classic liberalism) not your shit tier modern liberalism for the nation to grow.
Alexander Young
Liberal has a very wide range of meaning and I agree with classical liberalism much more than you think. I believe a decentralized model of governance could be the best choice for America.
Oh right forgot to add it. If you have nothing to say and are just going to use memes, insults or images I'm going to hide your post. I'd rather have good debate with people. You have one chance.
Henry Hernandez
THIS
Bentley Gray
>we could have a utopia if we wanted one.
confirmed for 19yo liberal arts major, probably from Tufts or Swarthmore or some other college where its considered avant-garde to be a homosexual when you're young.
Saged.
Andrew Cooper
>Utopia
You mean like Detroit?
Camden Wright
Yeah, I didn't think it was bad. I just don't think it's good. You made excuses and your explanation for America being a terrible example was pretty bad. The only good part was your link. The rest was basically junk.
Isaac Price
nah, you'd have to have a high school education at least to go to college. OP confirmed for having dropped out of 7th grade
Joseph Roberts
Why do you sexualise women? Why do you project inachievable standards of beauty?
#CHECKYOURPRIVILEGE SHITLORD!!!11!1!!
Liam Jenkins
It could be a decentralized model where the states that are worth something adopt leftist policies and the poor shithole states can sell everything to private enterprise.
Gavin Lewis
>because things arn't that simple.
Oh, but they are. You self identify as a liberal. The political left in this country is becoming more and more authoritarian (college campuses for example). You could stop identifying as a liberal, that is, unless you actually agree with the lefts progress towards authoritarianism.
Just admit it, you are an authoritarian leftist.
Justin Collins
strawman, dropped.
Connor Sanchez
The rise of the regressive left doesn't change the fact that I'm still a liberal. I'm very much not authoritarian and believe in the importance of civil liberties.
Adrian Miller
Y'all niggas posting in a... oh, nevermind
12/7/14 Never forget.
Lucas Lee
...and yet you have to give a counter argument. I thought you were the one who was supposed to be debating me?
Christian Sanchez
You talk so much shit with absolutely no argumentation. Shitpost somewhere else unless you can rack that eurotrash brain of yours to come up with something worth addressing.
Adrian Williams
>educated >liberal
Choose only one.
James Ross
Lol what's the point of doing that when it worked perfectly in the 60s
Leo Taylor
Your a slippery one. But I'll pin you down.
This.
GG op.
Anthony Price
>I'm an educated liberal Opinion discarded pretending fag
Aiden Foster
Who will build this utopia? Who?
Because this is the question you people never answer. It won't be you. You are not the builders of the future. It is always someone else. This is the problem with liberal elites. It is about getting the masses to do what you want. Which is what you supposedly hate about the other side!
Who will build it? And no, I am not just talking about money but time and effort. I am sick of hypocrisy with no ethical backbone. Will you do something about things?
Why is it always someone else that must do everything for you. Pay for you. Serve you. Make the country how you want it to be.
The distinct problem with society is the abadonment of the philsophy of personal responsibility.
Does instability damage us? Yes. Do things like discrimination cause issues? Yes. But think about it this way: who does it help to blame the other? Who? Does being paralysed by the want for change and blaming all your problems on another actually bring about the change you desire? No.
It is like the robot on /r9k/ that wants to change. Change not started tonight won't be completed tomorrow. But what they do? Go to sleep and say I will do it tomorrow. Then wake up, repeat the cycle and then think "If only a qt would fall in my lap" or "If only society would change to how I want it".
The problem is you won't build your utopia. You will just continually insult people and damage democracy in the progressive quest to be the largest oppressed group. Groups that have oppressed mentalities, no matter how justified, build nothing.
Only the strong build something. Being a victim, whether justified or not, is not a position of strength. Only the weak follow a victim.
Samuel Walker
If you think Japan and South Korea are socialist countries or that China is a nice place to live in, you're either flat earth tier ignorant or mentally ill.
Jaxson Barnes
Multiculturalism is a European thing. America is diverse but not multicultural.
Nicholas Johnson
I wasn't expecting this many responses so it's taking a bit. That is a very interesting article and surely relevant in today's society. Truth is, where I'm from being racist and being liberal are not mutually exclusive.
Jeremiah Parker
You used Japan as an example of a leftist nation. GTFO. They still use essentially jim crowe laws there. They are as right as you get. Accepted only like 20 rapeugees which btw 12 of are in jail for rape. You have no clue what you are talking about. Typical Lib
Nolan Diaz
>We could have a utopia if we wanted one. do you know the definition of an utopia? it by virtue is unattainable as you are simply looking past the negative flaws humans have possessed since time immemorial
everything sounds nice on paper or in your mind, now try to make it work for once
Ryan Lee
You are technically right. But this is lost on people.
Ah. I won't waste my time then. Good luck with all the others. Try not to waste their time either.
Nathan Price
why reject fascism?
Joshua Price
He said socialist or leftist. A nation with universal healthcare and universal education is very much leftist compared to the US. They care a lot more about public infrastructre as well.
No, you have a very uneducated view as to what leftism is.
Connor Carter
These are all homogenous white communities you fuckhead.
Jose Bailey
>liberal has a wide range of meanings
Not really. At it's core liberal means free. If you are truely a liberal then you should champion peoples liberties, even if you PERSONALLY disagree with them (gun rights, hate speech, etc.).
If you think those things should be restricted, then you probably shouldn't self identify as a liberal.
Zachary King
If you're looking to debate, you came to the wrong place, just sayin'.
Austin Howard
I'd be on suicide watch if someone BTFO me so badly.
Jackson Fisher
Is there such a thing as a right to privacy?
If so does it apply equally to all matters or not?
Cameron Lewis
>He said socialist or leftist. A nation with universal healthcare and universal education is very much leftist compared to the US. They care a lot more about public infrastructre as well. Okay, do you not understand something called context? Certain ideas may be viewed as leftist compared to another within your narrow view but that is ignoring other nations and their politics.
Gavin Miller
>educated liberal
Jackson Robinson
I agreed with you, but alright.
Because my ancestors died to fight off authoritarianism and I'm not a submissive bitch who needs to be ordered around.
I don't think those things should be restricted. You're literally making up my views for me.
There are several relatively homogenous states in the US as well.
Some people are willing to.
Connor Edwards
>circlejerk That's something only reddit does.
Isaiah Wood
>Not an argument Youre just on damage control.
> Japan is capitalist as fuck > Japan is racist and xenophobic as fuck > Japan talks to russia >Current PM gives tax breaks.
Im sorry but what about Japan is left? >inb4 gun control and maternity leave
Noah Allen
Except for I'm not on the regressive left.
I'm speaking from an American perspective. Universal healthcare, education and lots of work put into public infrastructure are left compared to what we have.
David Watson
>thinly veiled ama thread
nah you are the one who asserted leftism is either good or rationally justifiable. You need to assert a specific, falsifiable idea, and back it with evidence. Otherwise kick rocks
Gabriel Bell
the majority of people are bitches who need to be ordered around, why let the plebs of your nation kill each other
Cooper Phillips
Then why did you post a white woman?
Ayden Cook
Maternity leave, universal healthcare, universal education, heavy focus on public infrastructure.
Asher Nelson
How do you feel about the law
Asher Adams
This
Blake Ramirez
Nope.
Necessary, depends on what law.
David Wright
Fair enough, but the left is being defined more and more by it's regressive/authoritarian portion. Why would you want to be associated with that?
You could identify as a liberal moderate/independent, or something else more middle-of-the-road. Based on your posts, that sounds more accurate.
Joseph Myers
>I'm speaking from an American perspective. Universal healthcare, education and lots of work put into public infrastructure are left compared to what we have. Left from what you have does not mean that certain governments are leftist.
Do you not understand that..
So by saying x government is left is silly. And even then, certain things like healthcare are not inherently "leftist" in many countries. That is not how they are viewed at all.
Jace King
>utopia haaa hahahahaha
Charles Barnes
>Nope. excellent rebuttal autismo
Jonathan Peterson
>he said I'll go with mentally ill.
>state healthcare Not actually provided by the state in most of the countries you've listed including Germany. Rather, major insurance companies get state subsidiaries to insure the average citizen who cannot pay for private insurance. There are a gazillion exceptions to who is entitled to them of course, including free lancers, students over 25 etc. The only countries that do actually provide state care are the UK and some former USSR countries like Russia and Belarus (although to get quality treatment there people still pay privately).
Why start debates when it looks like you've just learned how to read and write?
Japan and South Korea are what would be considered far-right countries by Western standards.
Nathaniel Bennett
*you still pay, often a lot towards these insurances
>he gives some opinion that most people want to be ordered around and acts as though it's fact
Okay man.
Tyler Diaz
>didnt read my post. >inb4 maternity leave >says maternity leave
>universal education okay fine but, reminder, smaller population, and homogeneous population. Diversity ruins countries. You cant even argue other.
>public infrastructure infrastructure is not a leftist idea you fuck wit, ore even a right for that matter. stop trying to stamp it with your commie bullshit. and a republican was the one who signed the bill that built our nations highways and infrastructure if you really want to go there. rekt
Lincoln Martinez
That's not leftist.
Leo Garcia
Yeah I know, doesn't change the fact that I hold liberal views.
Logan Perry
Do you know how much it would cost to give over 300 million people "FREE" healthcare.
Do you know how much you would have to raise the taxes to not damage the economy drastically? Do you know that raising the taxes would cripple the economy and raise the prices of all goods? Do you realise America is deeply in dept ($17.8 trillion) estimate and you guys cannot afford to spend even more money?
Dylan Long
...
Jason Lee
>educated >liberal
Yeah I dominated my fair share of you faggots on UF's debate team. You're just narcissistic and stupid
Isaac Bailey
if you're so sure it's not a fact you should have no problem refuting it instead of ducking your head in the sand
Ryan Gray
Yes they are.
Americans pay the highest prices for healthcare in the developed world by far and they get mediocre returns. Your average American has worse healthcare than their developed partners, and pay much more for it.
Levi Price
So you're either a National Socialist, if you mean purely economically, or acting against your own interest, in which case I don't care
Luis Torres
>your making up my views
Not at all. You called yourself a liberal leftist. That means some pretty specific things, particularly in this political climate. If there are fundimental things about the left that you disagree with, don't identify as one.