This is going to be TL;DR

Why is it okay to change the race of a fictional character?

I for one believe that if you hold a licence to a piece of art such as fiction, that gives you artistic liberty to change nearly anything you want until, although I or anyone could also argue that there exists such thing as fictional accuracy, authenticity and integrity. It's wrong to change the entire meaning or plot of something you have acquired from someone else unless that's the previous artist says it's okay, that's a given. Changing minor details or what someone might argue are minor details of a character such as hair, race, appearance might sound like it follows with the artistic license of being able to change what you want, but that turns from an argument of artistic liberties and turns into a race debate whether it was intended or not by the author or artist. changing the race of a character is treated like a superficial appearance change, which is a racist thing to say in essence since there are many differences between races. What's that old Liberal adage, "pretending to not see race is in and of itself racist"

If you're going to argue changing the race doesn't matter you can't also argue that the character should to be a different race in order to be diverse, did you not just say it doesn't matter? What happens when someone tries to question this? The usual response is why does it matter, with the "So why is it okay for so-and-so to be _______?"

In regards to the first point, the person who says changing the race doesn't matter has to also agree with his second point that "Yeah, why does it matter?" Surely they'll be able to answer the question? Why does it matter? They will almost 100% of the time conclude it matters because of diversity, so as you can plainly see this will result in an infinite feedback loop of an argument= Why did you change it? - Why does it matter? - Why does it matter enough to change it? - Why does it matter I changed it?

The second point they usually give is a direct assumption that you don't find it wrong when other races are changed simply because they're not your race. That in an of itself is an admission that they don't agree when it's done to so-and-so. This is a logical fallacy because again, you can't have your cake and eat it to.

But the Holy Grail of any Marxists argument portfolio: Racism. You can't be racist to white people therefore you don't have any grounded grievances for your favourite characters race's being changed. This is again, a logical fallacy because you can be racist towards white people. "institutionalized racism" is a social theory, and nothing more. The definition of racism is the prejudice or hatred of another race and that's the true meaning of the word racism. Anyone can hate anyone for any number of reasons, including hating a white person for being white ie= racism.


So how do you argue against this in a postmodern leftist narrative? You can't. And that's the point. This way of thinking is designed to be illogical. Why is it designed this way? So Hollywood (and those other parties some might think are involved in Hollywood) can continue to milk audiences for boatloads of cash in the name of noble diversity! It's the same deal with the Ghostbusters movie the Je- I mean Hollywood invested in. Taking a classic and rebooting it. It's been done before and the buyer almost NEVER appreciates it. Only this time guess why you don't appreciate it? Because you're a sexist woman hating male, that's why. It's not the fact you're tired of remakes and reboots because of the shameless attempt to grab money from your wallet, it's because there's something wrong with you for not paying them money to something that is not going to entertain you.

So basically guys, get ready for 1984 in the near future. The thought police are very real and you can already plainly see it in our film industries.

>702 KB PNG
>Why is it okay to change the race of a fictional character?
>fictional character
>fiction

It literally does not fucking matter unless you're a brain-dead manchild without any interests that actually impact the real world.

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but...
>Why is it okay to change the race of a fictional character?
Because they're fucking fictional?

Not an argument.

And why does it matter that their fictional? Explain your point further because you can't say it's okay to do it to fictional characters because they're fictional."

Is a white Fresh Prince offensive and racist?

TLDR

Whether you understand it or not, the film industry is an extremely politically driven propaganda machine.


Still stuck on the first few pages of Hop on Pop eh?

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didnt read but
DSL
S
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>Explain your point further because you can't say it's okay to do it to fictional characters because they're fictional

What? You can say that. He just did. And so am I.

>Is a white fresh prince offensive

People always say this like they're some huge witty argumentative master that has drawn their opponent into a snafu revealing their hypocrisy or whatever but in actuality any reasonable person would also say that a white fresh prince wouldn't be racist either.

Also your fucking thread is tl;dr you fag, nobody cares.

wtf i love mj now

>Not an argument.

Sure it is. It's fiction. They can change whatever they want.

I've explained my position in my OP.

>any reasonable person would also say that a white fresh prince wouldn't be racist either.

Are Millennials and Liberals reasonable people?

Why can you change an established characters race?

"Because it's fiction."

So say if we make Tom Robinson black, I can do it, because it's fiction.

>Whether you understand it or not, the film industry is an extremely politically driven propaganda machine.

So?

I don't care. If you care about the race change of some bitch in capeshit, you are the cancer killing this board.

The real question is why do you care so much? As long as the character remains intact, then what does it matter?

If a character was written to have certain experiences that are exclusive to minorities, then perhaps it would be wrong to change the ethnicity of said character due to the fact that you're essentially changing the core of what makes up that character.

However if we were to take someone like Mary Jane, who has a background that could belong to anyone, then why does it matter if the race or ethnicity is changed?

I repeat, as long as the core of the character remains the same, then it really shouldn't matter what their sexuality, race or gender is.

>Are Millennials and Liberals reasonable people?

Unless you're fucking 40 years old or so you're a millennial too so I think you're tacitly suggesting that you yourself are an unreasonable person.

>Why can you change an established characters race?
Because it's all imaginary.

What is Zendaya's race? Is she black or Mid-Eastern?

Why doesn't forced diversity upset you?

Do diversity quotas fill your heart with glee?

So so?

Explain your philosophical position.

Because I'm not a moron who doesn't see the obvious implications of mass propaganda in media.

>I've explained my position in OP
>implying anyone wants to read all that

>So say if we make Tom Robinson black, I can do it, because it's fiction.

Yes. That's how fiction works. Like magic.

>I don't want to read your argument
>therefore you don't have one

Have you ever read that fucking book, user? Are you twelve?

The only thing that bothers is how much they push blacks and ignore Hispanics and Asians.

Hispanics would make more sense since their population is more than 13%.

Say "I don't like that they changed a character in this movie because I like how that character looked in my mind (or before in other movies, etc)."

But don't say they can't. Thats just childish.

>So say if we make Tom Robinson black, I can do it, because it's fiction.

Yeah, sure. You can do that. The fact that you seem too autistic to comprehend the idea of something being fictional and thus the attributes of it are contingent upon the creator really speaks a lot about the kind of person that assumes the positions you have.

Tl;DR

First of all she's not playing MJ you autist. Second of all it already happend. She's been cast. There is literally nothing you can do about it now. Writing novels on the Internet is useless. There will be plenty more Spider Man movies in your lifetime. It literally doesn't matter if she plays MJ.

This. Whenever I see a spanish character, It's just another character, but when there is a black person it's for diversity.

This. It's like saying black kids cannot play pretend as Robin Hood or white kids can't play pretend as a witch doctor or some shit. It doesn't matter if it's a couple of kids in their living room or actors on the big screen, it's all make believe.

I'm not saying they can't, I'm saying this is an obvious way to try and grab more minority money.

Sure, but what's the real point of doing that? THat's the real question.

I don't care about Spiderman, it's about the obvious attempt to say "blackwashing" is okay but "whitewashing" is bad. These are their own words.

>says in the OP its TLDR
>gets mad when people dont want to read it

>Why doesn't forced diversity upset you?

Because it literally does not impact my life to any degree whatsoever.

>Because I'm not a moron who doesn't see the obvious implications of mass propaganda in media

I hate to burst your bubble but all media has a message. That's the way it's been for generations. How have you grown up in this world without realizing that everyone has a spin they want to put on reality?

>propaganda doesn't affect my life to any degree

No where am I upset that nobody read it, it's just a clear example of blinding attacking someone all while ignoring their position.

>Have you ever read that fucking book, user? Are you twelve?

When race is important to a character, you might have a point. However, in the case of Mary Jane, for instance, it literally doesn't fucking matter unless Peter Parker is a member of Stormfront.

>seeing black people and women doing things in movies is propaganda

>sorry white boi dis iz how it iz now

But it's fictional I can change it, it doesn't matter if the race is important since it's all make believe.

>changing a character's race isn't done for political and monetary reasons

But who gives a shit? There are literally thousands of white roles available to whites. The same cant be said for minorities. And Zendaya is mixed race. Stop that "one drop rule" bullshit.

>Face it Tigre
>you just hit the bote!

>Forced diversity is propaganda

What's wrong with seeing any ethnicity other than whites doing something? Film can't represent today's multicultural society? Especially one like New York City, which is where spider man takes place?

The real problem is the now she's just PoC Mary Jane instead of her own character. She's a cheap recasting of an existing character whose change is literally skin deep and exists to appeal solely to modern liberal beliefs.

What would be infinitely more respectable, interesting and original is if she was her own character with her own background rather than Mary Jane but vaguely ethnic. Do liberals seriously think this empowers anyone or is respectful to anyone's heritage? That race is just interchangeable? Good job, liberalism.

>propaganda doesn't affect my life to any degree

It doesn't. I've never lost a job, a lover, a child, or anything else to a minority.

Not an argument ;)

dont care what you fuckers say, thats the new waifu

>inb4 black or asian batman

But why change it in the first place?

The answers isn't "who cares?"

I already covered that in the OP you didn't read. Why isn't she just her own character to begin with?

Because for some reason there's this narrative where minorities are barred from Hollywood.

That's good for you but millions of people around this world would tell you that you probably live up your own asshole.

Neither is "WHY DOES IT MATTER?!?"

>The problem is that now she's just PoC Mary Jane instead of her own character

Wow user, have you seen the movie already? That's impressive, to be able to see a movie before it's even hit production

>Implying I'd care

Hispanic and Asians aren't professional victims.

Mary Jane was meant to be a hot model, too attractive for fashion, too curvy for mainstream modeling, wouldn't degrade herself to bikini, lewd, or nude. Got to be an actress a few times. It was all a part of her personality.
If she's not this then she's not the same character.

Good argument.

>What's wrong with seeing any ethnicity other than whites doing something? Film can't represent today's multicultural society? Especially one like New York City, which is where spider man takes place?
nothing wrong with any of that until they start changing the races of pre-existing characters

It's already confirmed she's MJ.

>alien Batman

>Why change it?

It's very simple user: They wanted a pretty girl to be Mary Jane and didn't give a shit about race. Wow. It's that simple. Nothing else to it. Your autistic mind is overthinking this. You will live to see another white MJ.

>because for some reason there's this narrative that minorities are barred from Hollywood

Well, that's because Hollywood has historically been a white man's industry. It has been getting better, but the mere fact that you're even complain about the race swap of a generic character like Mary Jane shows that there is still some modicum of progress to be made.

And zendaya can't be that?

What the fuck is autistic about wanting a character you've read about a long time to be exactly as they were in the media you consumed of their stories?

Do you not understand the process of an adaptation to film? They actually have to sit down and BRING UP the fact they want a different race.

Again, pretending race doesn't exist is a classic Liberal tool to say you're a racist.

Well. If you look at her body ... No? She's built differently. And she's not a failed model she's a geek like peter.

But if the character's background isn't rooted in their own racial experiences, then why does it matter? Like I said, Mary Jane isn't that compelling of a character and her character could realistically belong to anyone.

>Hollywood has historically been a white man's industry

Jews are white, they're Jews. Dumb ass.

>Jews are white
Ok this thread has gone too far.
Mods delete pls.

But if you use the argument "you can change it because it's fictional" then you can use the exact same argument to change any minority character as a white person.

>What the fuck is autistic about wanting a character you've read about a long time to be exactly as they were in the media you consumed of their stories?

Because, if you don't like it, you don't have to watch. If you're that invested in it, make your own movie.

The solution isn't blackwashing, it's making original ethnic characters.

If theyre race has relevancy to the character, like a former slave, or the race change is inprobable, like a black soldier among german WWI soldiers, then I agree. If its has little or no relevance to the character, then its artistic liberty. A black james bond, for exemple, wouldnt be a big deal even though theyve been white in the past.

Jews don't identify as Caucasian you fucking moronic faggot.

Are you telling me I don't know anything about the Jewish identify? I have kikes in my fucking family you autist.

Better stick to comics and fan fiction

i tried clicking for more pics of zendaya i only got a bigger zendaya...
why havent i killed myself already

Is Zendaya black? She looks half to me.

Okay, we all understand that. But we're having a conversation. Why do you believe the end result is your quasi-winning?

It's unsurprising that you are being purposefully obtuse, but the for the majority of people fiction is important because of the thematic insight it provides it can provide into the real world. It is not just about imagination.

In both To Kill a Mockingbird and the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, one of their primary purposes was to discuss important racial themes like the assumed guilt of a black man or the rising class disparity that exists in America even within races. Changing the race of the characters race in these works would not just change the "make believe" that goes into these works but the very real ideas that they are trying to illuminate.

The story of Spiderman isn't a story about a dude who can do sweet flips while stuff blows up around him. It is about man's responsibility to the public good and the burden of balancing a private life with that public duty. Can you think of any reason that Mary Jane being white would be important to tell this story?

I can concede there may be other themes to Spiderman's story, too. Can you think of a reason from any of the comics or lore that would make it important for Mary Jane to be white? The fact that she's a redhead is a cosmetic detail, so it doesn't count.

There will be plenty more Aryan MJs in your lifetime autist. I think they can afford to deviate from the formula this one time.
Ok without giving me an autistic conspiracy theory, please tell me why they would go out of their to not have a white MJ? Also race is irrelevant and the everyday more people on Earth are starting to realize this. You're stuck in the past and its time to move on.

Jews believe they are their own race, but its' disproven and most American Jews register themselves as white aka caucasian.

>If theyre race has relevancy to the character, like a former slave, or the race change is inprobable, like a black soldier among german WWI soldiers, then I agree.

But if they're a fictional character it doesn't matter.

Thanks for stating the obvious, friendo.

But they're fictional? I don't understand? :^)

Op ask a question, and I answered it. Not trying to "win" anything.

Well that's exactly my point. If you have a character who is black man that grew up in Harlem during the 70's, his experiences would be different than if he was race swapped to a white person. It wouldn't be the same character because their formative experiences would be different. At that point you might as well write a new character. But if you take a generic character like Mary Jane, who's background could belong to anyone regardless of ethnicity then it's ok no matter the race, as long as the core of the character is the same.

Your words are wasted OP and I think you know this. Some people will always be wrong.

She is but you know white supremacists and that one drop rule.

Again with this quasi-trollish bullshit.
First, she's got red hair and green eyes, since when did Gingers become Aryan?
There is nothing wrong with discussing this. If you don't wanna partake without reverting to a pygmy troll that gets responded when ever we wanna hear it jibber jabber then leave.

>Why is it okay to change the race of a fictional character?

To be fair shes is technically half white.

Her white fat mom fucked a black guy.

Read The Culture of Critique

The question to a debate.

Blackwashing in an instance where it literally won't effect the character or story in any meaningful way is fine. It may be pointless, but ultimately harmless.

Pst. Hey. Lemme break you in on a secret.

Fictional characters aren't real. They're whatever the creatives want them to be.

If the race of a character is important to a story, then and there better be a damn good reason to change it. If a character's race is not important, other than how they appear in your head, then there's no reason not to change it. It's as simple as that

JUST

I don't care one ant's testicle about this "controversy".

I just want to impregnate that little quadroon fucktoy.

But what is there to be discussed? The girl has been fucking cast already and it's going to keep happening. You're just going to keep going in circles until the movie comes out and you find some other race change to bitch about. It literally doesn't matter.

You cannot say it doesn't matter. Obviously it matters to a lot of people who are complaining. You may disagree with the opinion but you have no right to say it doesn't matter. The reverse to that is your opinion of it not mattering doesn't matter. So you're arguing with someone who's never going to agree with you. That's imbecilic.

>half white

Then I guess it's half ethical.

>pointless

There is a clear point in doing this and why there exists a narrative that you can't be racist towards a white person.

>stating the obvious and not taking his argument down to the philosophical and ethical level

Stay sleep nigguh

>The question to a debate

Didn't realize I agreed to involuntary debates when I started looking at photos on this Karen Sand-Art Chatroom.

Welcome to a postmodern West. Thanks for not reading the OP bud.

And what's the purpose of Sup Forums if not to discuss things?

Which is now racist fucked up.
Janes had a horrible household and Mary was emotionally tortured by her Father.

>And what's the purpose of Sup Forums if not to discuss things
To look at anime

Under Sup Forums?

>you can't be racist towards a white person
Ok now I know you're just a paranoid Sup Forumstard who spends too much time on the internet. Do people really hold this position? Yes. But not nearly as many as you'd think. Talk to any functioning human adult and you can find out that most people will agree with the idea that everyone can be racist.

I really don't understand why you're even engaging in the discussion if you're just going to act like a faggy little twat.

Perhaps you're view on the world is being challenged and you don't know how to react to it?

Quit being reasonable

Well, technically, we should probably be looking at pictures of photo and TV shows here. If you'd like to discuss politics of "forced diversity "you should probably go to Sup Forums