This is bullshit

This is bullshit.

now all the prices are gonna go up. You're not supposed to be able to make a living flipping burgers.

...

here's another,

yes you are you fucking retard

“No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.” - Roosevelt

Democrats only pass laws that will get them votes in the next 2 years from ignorant people stuck on welfare who have the time to go vote at 11am on a Thursday.

I used to live there. I used to think Republicans were evil. Then I moved to a red state and saw how it's possible to have reasonable taxes and still have roads and schools and firefighters.

Only thing a high minimum wage does is kill the middle class more. It doesn't actually help anybody. Doesn't give anybody incentive to learn a skill and better themselved so they can make money above minimum wage. Everything will get more expensive and employers will cut hours and positions. That McD's cashier who wants $15/hr, their job won't exist in a year since it will be cheaper to automate it.

incentives are bullshit lmfao. you know that. stop deluding yourself you petulant child.

Not saying it shouldn't continue you mongoloid, just saying that it's gonna hurt the big business.

exactly. I agree.

Bait

Well of course if you raise minimum wage like that, it will just lead to inflation. The middle class people making $20-$25 an hour will become lower-middle class. But everybody complaining about "muh living wage", you aren't supposed to support a family from bagging groceries. You are supposed to start there, learn some more skills, work hard, get experience, and then you can move up to a position that pays more.

These laws and min wage increases will just keep killing small businesses too.

>incentives are bullshit

yea ppl that protest and strike for higher wages are definitely not incentivized by the money.... .... ...

That's retarded

I don't care about people who are so dumb all they can do is flip burgers.

Boy there's a surprising number of highly educated economists in this thread.

It's going to hurt smal businesses even more. Most small business owners with like 2 to 20 employees, they aren't making millions of $$. The big corporations, they will just keep laying off people and they have the extra money to invest in automation.

But either way, lots of businesses are going to continue to leave the state. And the ones that stay will have less employees and less jobs. And the taxpayers will continue to move away (like I did 4yrs ago).

If you look at the people moving away from IL, it's is substantially more from the middle and higher tax brackets. The dems there seriously don't give a fuck about realistic solutions in the long term. If you don't know about IL politics, just look into "Mike Madigan". Biggest piece of shit politician ever. Despite being elected by a small group of people, he basically controls the whole state. And pretty much everything Illinois does as far as lawmaking is somehow related to keeping Madigan & Friends in power.

Why even have a 'minimum' wage? Pay a 1$/hour, then you can cut prices across the board and everyone will be happy.

Even among economists, you can subscribe to "Micro" or "Macro". You can think idealogically or realistically. You can be for big business and a few rich people at the top or lots of small businesses where there are many people who are somewhat wealthy.

Either way, the shit they are doing in IL has proven time and time again that it doesn't work.

Hahahaaa jesus christ kiddo

I wouldn't mind if they did that. It would give people incentive to learn a skill and the workers can determine what they are actually worth. If there is a position that a computer could do or we could pay some dumb nig $4/hr, then give the employer and the dumb nig negotiating positions on it. Somebody without any better skills will do the job, and at least they are working.

I will finally have something to look forward to in this shitty state.

Go live in Illinois and enjoy your stupid high taxes and roads full of potholes while the retired teachers are making $200k/yr at 58 years old.

Also look into "Mike Madigan" like I mentioned before. The shit is frustrating. I hear his little district has good schools and parks tho ;^)

And the people who actually have skills that companies need, they will get buttfucked even more. And they will move away. And they will take their tax money with them. And your roads will get even shittier.

Min wage fag here. I live near LA, California, make $11/hr, and average $278 a week because at my job (I'm a cashier at a grocery store) only managers get full time hours. If I worked full time, Id be making a little over $350 after taxes. I don't need an extra $4/hr, I need more hours, fewer taxes, or cheaper rent (average here is $1,400 because California sucks and I'm honestly thinking of just sucking it up and moving to Nevada or Arizona).

If you need more hours get a second job. Working 40 hours a week at 11$/hr you still won't be making enough to live comfortably in LA though

This Or work hard and try to get one of those manager jobs. That's how life is supposed to work, without the gubbermint holding your hand.

You realize that's all bullshit, right?

Checked

And what? Working hard and getting a promotion? Or learning a skill that is in-demand by employers? Sounds reasonable to me.

>its gonna hurt business

well guess what, if people cant buy shit its gonna hurt business too

So let me get this straight, being the employee that deals with more customers than any other employee, ringing up orders and returns, balancing a cash register, memorizing produce codes, dealing with irate people, and being the employee most likely to get a gun pointed at my face if we get robbed isn't enough to deserve extra hours? I'm not working hard enough? I need a second job in addition to that? Really?

Therein lies the issue...

You can raise minimum wage and businesses have two possible options- they can raise prices or they can cut hours and positions.

If they raise prices, that hurts everybody's purchasing power. Products are more expensive, everybody from lower class to upper class will be able to buy less non-essentials. The people who are manufacturing and selling all these non essential products and services, they are making less money. It's a vicious cycle.

The second option- businesses cut hours and positions and try to replace it with automation where they can. So if you're making $15/hr instead of $10/hr, but they cut your hours back to 20hrs instead of 30hrs like before, how does that even help you at all? Or you keep your 30hrs at $15/hr, and you make more money, but 1/3 of your coworkers are now unemployed since the company laid them off.

Seriously, all politicians are corrupt as fuck but these Dem economic theories and Libertarian utopian ideas never work in the long run.

If you are unwilling to learn more skills and go for a higher position, then maybe that is what you need to do. It sucks to hear, but it's true. You aren't supposed to work base level retail jobs your entire life. At least prove to your bosses that you're capable of being a shift manager and working 50hrs a week for $15-$20 an hour.

Not to sound like "member berries" but there are too many people wanting instant gratification. Sometimes you need to put in the work and gain experience before you get that $50k+/yr job with full benefits. You can't just expect that for your first job. And the people who do expect that, they don't realize how much it harms the people who actually did work their way up and learn skills to get to the point where they can buy a home and afford a new car.

Cashier isn't "base level", that's baggers. To be a cashier, you have to start as a bagger, move to another department, and then get promoted to cashier.

>It doesn't actually help anybody

Were you dropped in the head when you were a kid?

Keep workin boy!

Have you ever wondered how somebody like Donald Trump actually got elected president? It's because there are people who actually voted for an idiot like that because they felt that left out by the other side. The other side that expects a $15 minimum wage for that job they work in high school, while they are working 60hrs a week at their $20/hr mid level supervisor job just to pay their bills because everything else keeps getting more expensive. That job at 40hrs a week in the 90s was paying their mortgage just fine. But 20 years of passing laws trying to make sure China builds a couple windmills using US $$$ means that their employers and everybody else is too busy paying higher taxes to give their employees good raises.

I don't have the answers, but I think it's clear that the typical Democrat responses as of lately haven't done anything to help.

So it helps the handful of minimum wage workers who don't get laid off, but in the long run it HURTS EVERYBODY ELSE.

That's another reason Hillary lost. When you keep trying to appeal to the sexually confused person who doesn't know what bathroom to use, but completely forget blue collar middle class working people, those working folk are going to get pissed off. It's good to try and make things fair for everybody, but when you are harming the 98% to try and help the 2%, that is fucked up.

So you acknowledge that low/unskilled labor is necessary but you think the people doing this necessary work should have to be poor?

In my original post, I didn't advocate for a higher minimum wage. I said I needed more hours, less taxes, or cheaper rent. I even explicitly said I don't need the minimum wage to be an extra $4/hr, but everyone thinks I'm asking for a goddamn handout when all I really want is for people to stop taking so much of my goddamn money.

I mean kinda. Every society needs unskilled workers. If you look at human history, unskilled workers making min wage in the US actually live pretty damn well. They are still eating and have a roof over their head.

A lot of that comes from gov't regs over business too. Once a person hits 40hrs/wk, it costs the employer a whole lot more money because of OT and benefits.

the big winners will be people who are under union contracts with clauses of being paid x% over minimum wage. The losers will be the taxpayers who will have to fund higher gov employee wages. These same gov employees will now get higher retirement payouts and the severely underfunded public employee retirement funds will be insolvent.

>A lot of that comes from gov't regs over business too. Once a person hits 40hrs/wk, it costs the employer a whole lot more money because of OT and benefits.
Exactly. I want less government.

Me too. That would get rid of a high minimum wage. The people who want to make money, they will work their asses off with long hours or learn a skill so they are in demand and wanted more compared to the other unemployed people and they can ask for a wage they deserve from their employer. And if the employer wants the employee that can do that job well, they will pay them what they deserve if they want them to stay.

Of course it won't work perfectly in every situation, but look how things are going in the US lately. All these gov't regs were supposed to help make thing fair for the guys at the bottom and keep the guys at the top from getting too big. But the opposite has happened. The big guys at the top are the only ones who can navigate the crazy regs and it makes it super difficult for the average person to run their own business and succeed. And at the same time, it's lowering the bar for what is acceptable for the people at the bottom. If you will live better on welfare than you will working a min-wage job and trying to climb the ladder, something has gone wrong.

Gov't assistance is fine, but it needs to be limited and difficult to get so only the people who really need it will be on it. There are too many programs where the gov't just keeps giving people fish everyday. Instead, they could try to teach the people to fish.

Those regulations are what prevents 50 hour weeks from being the norm. I'm a skilled worker so I can demand 1.5x pay on all ot anyways, but the whole idea of a society is to be making progress for everyone. When too much of the working class becomes complacent with the stagnation of progress, regression happens.

High schooler detected

How about just the taxes then? What if they took less from guys like me and increased taxes on people who make 6 figures instead?

This thread is full the Crab's Mentality.

Nope. In HS, I would agree with the people pushing for a high minimum wage. Then I realized that cable and internet and good food are all luxuries and I don't deserve shit unless I put some work in.

I think 2 things changed that- I worked a job where my boss would give me raises and promotions whenever I learned a new skill and put in the extra effort. And then I moved out of Illinois.

I see where you are coming from but you got to remember that we live in a capitalistic society. 99 percent of corporations and companies would rather hoard there profits rather then redistribute/ invest in their employees (training, increased wages, etc).And some government intervention has to come in or every person working a minimum wage/ part time job would be getting paid in peanuts and those with a full time job would be putting in 60 hour a week with no overtime pay.

>You're not supposed to be able to make a living flipping burgers
This is not the only job that pays minimum.
I don't know what the fuck people expect when these jobs require 40 hour weeks; are you supposed to work 3 of them to afford a shitty ghetto apartment?

So explain to me the very real probability that you are not going to get that promotion or the very real possibility that you wont be able to afford going to college.

Explain how, even with the best work ethic and intentions, that somehow you are stuck as a line level employee for several years because you cannot find anything else or even slightly better. Because if everyone was a manager or a specialist we wouldn't have any employees to manage.

>it's gonna hurt the big business
10% less profit, boo hoo.

Because if you aren't completely retarded, you always have the freedom to learn a new skill on your own or change jobs and find something that you can do better than the next person and demand more money for that. If you are unable to do anything better than the next person, then you are meant to be working some shitty line cook job for the rest of your life. Not everybody is equal.

Although I think the college degree thing is fucked up in this day and age because there are plenty of times where somebody with no experience and a degree gets a job they don't deserve over somebody with no degree but tons of experience.

But the real-world happens and you realize that giant greedy corporations are the only ones with the resources to get around the loopholes in these laws. Meanwhile the medium and small businesses get crushed and the distrobution of wealth gets even more fucked up.

I think that some regulations are ok to prevent abuse, but they just keep adding more and more rules and they rarely seem to actually help the majority of working people. Like I said, I don't want anarchy and I think the gov't is a good thing overall, but big gov't never works well for the average hard working person. It just keeps getting closer and closer to some communist-type gov't, but time and time again it's proven that it will never work because there is too much greed. You might as well just take a hands-off approach and let the smart and ambitious succeed and the lazy and ignorant will fail.

I understand where you coming from with the vast greed and loopholes that corporations have but this started decades ago when profits over people became a thing. Like you said the little man/ average worker always gets fucked in the end.
My brother works part time at a UPS receiving facility where he tells me that the supervisors work them like dogs and seem hellbent on trying to lay people off to not have to pay wages. Luckily he is part of a workers union so he has a good fallback and protection from the company.