Jerry Garcia: Rap isn't music

Sup Forums's shit taste BTFO by a real musician
youtube.com/watch?v=Q1RaBdSCjAY

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youtube.com/watch?v=N1tjYdqrewM
npr.org/2016/12/12/505311193/when-it-comes-to-cds-in-2016-mozart-outsells-beyonce-adele-and-drake
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyting
youtu.be/zmciuKsBOi0
robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?name=jefferson starship
youtube.com/watch?v=b-kaG1NuLZM
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The grateful dead suck and are boring. If that's what he considers "real music" then I don't give a shit about any of his opinions on rap

t. non-musician

He had too much smack in his veins to tell up from down, why should I take him seriously?

rap is music but its bad music

he's the greatest musician of the 20th century; his opinions contain insight everyone finds valuable

>he's the greatest musician of the 20th century
thats bowie tho

I like the grateful dead but I think that's pushing it a little

Maybe if you only listen to rock.

holy shit lmao

>jerry garcia
>real musician

t. voracious pleb grandpa

He is right. Rap isn't music in a lot of cases. Rappers are mostly non-musicians although a few of them are actually bad-ass musicians. It doesn't matter if it is the most popular form of musical expression right now. Without melody it isn't music. That's why most rappers sing the hook or hire someone to sing a fucking hook. Because listeners want melody.

>he's the greatest musician of the 20th century
Holy shit dude. You can't be serious.

young thug...

>Without melody it isn't music.
how stupid are you? in western culture this has been dispelled since the 50s with people like john cage and pierre schaeffer. outside of the wersern world certain cultures have always known this.

I sometimes feel the same but sometimes hip-hop is fun at maximum. I can't turn my back on it because of technical issues. Who gives a shit?

>john cage and pierre schaeffer
>music
kys

What are they?

garbage for pretentious autists

t.flyover hick

you mean like most civilized people?

most civilized ppl listen to classical and jazz.
rock is for blue collar workers

he's right

most innovations in hip hop by rappers are based on an expressed desire to get away from hip hop. even rappers know that rap is extremely limiting, which is why they always joke with I'M NOT A RAPPER

this is why hillary lost

>classical
fag music for serial killers

>jazz
a dead form of music often found in elevators and infomercials

>rock
a dying form of music blacks abandoned long ago


Real music fans stopped listening to music years ago out of respect for music.

>most civilized ppl listen to classical and jazz
???
most don't
classical and jazz combined account for maybe 5% of music sales nowadays
I know you're trying to bait by saying rock isn't sophisticated, but I'm smarter than you so it's not working :)

damn

>classical and jazz combined account for maybe 5% of music sales nowadays
makes sense since the world has become dumber.

whats the employment rate for college graduates again?

How do you define sophistication?
Because it's obviously not the one in the dictionary.

>you can't get better at rap
what a stupid thing to say

what does you being a flyover hick have to do with hillary running the worst campaign in history?

I completely agreed with him until he said the whole thing about rappers not having any space for improvement.

>Implying that's what he said

He said that rap doesn't have the same infinite horizon that music does. Enjoy your below average IQ, you nig nog faggot.

he said getting better at rapping isn't significant like getting better at music is

try paying attention next time

lmfao this post

>civilized people listen to jazz
lmao, jazz is degenerate nigger music.

People just want a beat they can dance to.

This is coming from the man who played guitar on the first draft of Fire On The Mountain.

For those who never heard that version, Micky Hart is LITERALLY rapping the lyrics. It was still a work in progress, and was recorded at least two years before the Shakedown Street album.

lol rapping isn't music, it's a vocal style, dumbasses. that would be like saying spoken word, on its own, is music. hip hop, however, which can be accompanied by rapping, is. why does this need explaining?

>this influences the AnCo

The Grateful Dead have some of the most boring songs that I have ever heard. Better than Phish, but still boring.

worst meme
let it die

I agree with him entirely. And I am a musician(percussionist since I was a youngun). I actually saw their current iteration (Dead and Company) live recently. Literally can't enjoy it if you aren't high as fuck or tripping. Other than that it's kinda boring, the fans and band themselves are fantastic people though. And I'm not just talking Dead and Co.

come on jerry

I grew up listening to the Grateful Dead (my mom was a major Deadhead during the 80s and 90s).
While I've come to appreciate a majority of my parents' music, e.g. Pink Floyd, I have yet to see any redeeming qualities in the Grateful Dead.
It's just a bunch of hippies taking a bunch of LSD and improvising on their songs by making the boring parts longer.

John Cage is a meme and if anyone actually claims to "enjoy" his work, they're really fucking stretching to seem different, or sophisticated. When in all actuality it makes you seem like a pretentious cuck. I'd love to proven wrong and actually shown something of his that has substance and not just painful noises. He was more a musician than called philosopher. He made things that technically weren't considered music by societal standards, just to test what could actually be considered music. So he made wacky shit just to see if people would call it music.

2deep?

youtube.com/watch?v=N1tjYdqrewM
This sounds okay

You're all a bunch of fucking morons. Not only are you going to post a video of Jerry Garcia talking (which somehow has less value than his "music") but then the rest of you are going to engage these fucking idiots?

I'm here to help you. Use your time wisely, not like this. No need for thanks.

Music is made with """"""HARMONEY"""" not """""MELODY"""""

Nice extra """"E"""" Faggot

>implying bowie was interesting at all or a good singer

>classical and jazz combined account for maybe 5% of music sales nowadays

npr.org/2016/12/12/505311193/when-it-comes-to-cds-in-2016-mozart-outsells-beyonce-adele-and-drake

(You)

this

imagine if this guy listened to something like harsh noise, lowercase or serialism

>Without melody it isn't music
Fucking spewing

>the world has become dumber.
back to school, child

>Without melody it isn't music.

am I in the fucking 1800s

John Cage isn't even one of the weirder avant-garde artists you are a massive pleb

it can be considered art...just not music

like, tagging your name in screwey letters isn't expressionism no matter how much you insist it is..

isn't that good enough?

lol that's exactly what I was saying, you retard.

try paying attention next time

Bone Thugs n Harmony hasn't a melody now?

w e w

if rap isnt music then drumming isnt music right

he's right.

this

t. butthurt hip-hop cucks, the thread

If rap is non-music rock is barely-music. Honestly you shouldn't be listening to either over the age of 30.

Everyone in this thread is stuck in the 60s lmoa

Garcia is/was a great musician but he's just plain wrong here.

Hey user, ya like jazz?

did you even read the article? there was a 200 CD set of Mozart performances and it sold something like 5000 sets, which means over a million physical CDs. that's still nothing compared to sales from other genres, including non-physical digital purchases. you're a dumbass.

>he's just plain wrong here
damn great argument
really convinced me

it's not about the number of CDs, it's about how much MONEY people spent on it. people spend more money on classical music then on pop music.

that's not even close to true you massive retard

>rap has no melody
But it does. It's just not as straightforward and in the forefront for the style.

In a way you could argue that rapped melodies are a lot more delicate and full of change than most melodies song in rock music.

Well, yeah. It's poetry, not music. It's poetry set to music. I say this as someone who loves rap.
I love Grateful Dead but that's a bucket of shit you're peddling.

>most innovations in hip hop by rappers are based on an expressed desire to get away from hip hop
Bullshit, pure and simple.

>dumb ppl spend the most money on rock and hip hop
typical

uzi calls himself a rockstar

B T F O
T
F
O

>It's poetry

Invented by the Scottish also known as flyting

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyting

>Flyting is a ritual, poetic exchange of insults practised mainly between the 5th and 16th centuries

youtu.be/zmciuKsBOi0
Skip to 1:32


Where were when you realized the old English the realest niggas?

Who the fuck is Uzi?

source on that pic?

He's talking about Lil Uzi Vert, who is carried heavily by beats

Dead are like my favorite band and even I think you're being a bit ridiculous

You can't sip wine all your life, sometimes you need a soda.

Alright. Let's look this mope up.
>Lil Uzi Vert calls Marilyn Manson "his greatest inspiration."[11] In an interview with Complex, Lil Uzi Vert cited ASAP Rocky, Pharrell Williams, Kanye West, Young Thug, Wiz Khalifa, Lil Wayne, and the Ying Yang Twins as influences.[4]
>Lil Uzi Vert has also collaborated with a several prominent rappers, most notably his appearance on Migos' "Bad and Boujee"
That user must be out of his goddamned mind if he thinks I'm gonna accept that just because some trap rap faggot with a career length of about a year, who worships Marilyn Mason and Wiz Khalifa, calls himself a rockstar, "most innovations in hip hop by rappers are based on an expressed desire to get away from hip hop".

I like Grateful Dead and even though I listen to hip hop (nothing after the early to mid 00s though, f that), I'm inclined to agree with him

this

>defending rappers and shitting on Jerry Garcia
>the absolute state of Sup Forums

Jerry saying this is somewhat curious to me. He was definitely equipped to understand rap if he wanted to (which I'll go into in a sec), but one should also expect a man born in the '40s to have his biases.

Like, Jerry was actually generally very open-minded about music, although he definitely had his preferences. But he loved disco, where a lot of other hippies rejected it (although a lot embraced it). He was fine with some New Wave.

But I mean that I'm surprised he is using the "it's not music" spiel because the Dead always had their 'Drums and Space' section of their show, where first it went into pure drumming and rhythm (so they definitely weren't against rhythm-based music, and Mickey and Phil and others are definitely fine with rap and techno etc), and then into often 'space' that explored every type of atonal approach, feedback, avant structures, drones, really really next level synth fuckery, sometimes weird sample or midi stuff... a lot of it getting into things that you wouldn't hear the like of until 00s/10s 'hypnagogic' type approaches to ambience and sounds.

So while Jerry was definitely a genius with melody and sonority, he was more than able to work with and appreciate atonal or rhythmic music. What I think he's getting at is more the text / words of rapping itself, and saying that alone is words, not music. I see what he's getting at (and I have a similar critique of 'text' in art, trying to move art from the aesthetic to the text, which I think is actually wrongheaded), but what Jerry is probably stubbornly overlooking (or hadn't been exposed to) is the subtle way that rapping ISN'T just words but that it is definitely pushing through a musical-space and as such usually has a textural element, obviously lyrical qualities, and usually some kind of tonal / atonal thing happening, and a lot of style / character that makes it very aesthetic (and sonically aesthetic of course so it's still operating in music).

I should have proofread that. Ignore the moments where I had obviously not finished rewording a sentence.

I feel like this might've been taken out of context. It's possible he was just technical about it because he sounds like he's talking about the act of rapping itself, which isn't music. It's a part of making music, but it isn't music itself much like the act of singing or playing an instrument isn't technically music.

you ever listened to shady grove by garcia and grisman? Just because you don't like the grateful dead (I'm not a huge fan either although I will admit they are still very talented, influential, and leagues better than you make them out to be) doesn't mean garcia is a man not worthy of listening to

In The Dark [Arista, 1987]

They were a great live act once, probably still are on the right night, and despite the hooks and do-or-die production, this still isn't Journey or Starship. But only on "Throwing Stones", about one middle aged man's fear of love, do they disprove the young naysayers and old fools who've dismissed them as symbols of hippie complacency ever since the '60s. B-

>I don't know if you can get better at rap, I don't know if it has that space for it

All respect to this guy but he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about here. Nothing wrong with that, but you can't seriously take someone's opinion after saying that, he's completely out of his depth.

>Christgau likes Starship

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

from Nielsen for 2015 music sales overall
includes cd and vinyl sales, streaming and digital downloads

robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?name=jefferson starship

Actually no, he doesn't.

>haha DUMMY it's a vocal style not an actual kind of music xDDDD

Oh, so the voice is no longer an instrument? What about singing? Singing isn't music? So early Western music that only uses the voice isn't music then? You can imbue your voice with melody while rapping so don't even try that horse shit.

Lol, that's a traditional tune, they didn't write it. Their version is one of the worst I've ever heard actually.

This is how real musicians play it
youtube.com/watch?v=b-kaG1NuLZM