he went to north korea and was imprisoned for over a year for stealing a poster.
he was released back to the USA in a coma and died days after arriving.
certain US politicians are saying this is an act of murder and that NK should be held accountable.
my question is, why should they be held accountable when otto knew the consequences of messing with north korea.
are these politicians saying its totally ok for U.S. citizens to visit other countries and break their laws??
i understand the harsh sentence was political and in retaliation for sanctions made by the U.S against NK. and that i agree is wrong.
but Warmbler should also take responsibility for breaking laws while abroad. he knew exactly what he was doing and he also knew that he shouldnt be doing those things. he is not an innocent victim.
Cause it hurts our pride when another state can hold and kill one of our citizens without us being able to do a damn thing about it.
Jackson Phillips
Nice try, China
Jack Cook
I seriously don't understand people who go to third world shitholes on a holiday. You know the risks, especially if you're going to be a shithead and break laws.
Nathan Howard
it should hurt our pride more to know that our citizens are running around the world thinking they can do whatever they want.
Bentley Moore
It's the NKIDF
James King
>our citizens are running around the world thinking they can do whatever they want.
This.
Josiah Sullivan
736399887 >otto knew the consequences of messing with north korea Pretty much this. We used to execute people who did this.
Dominic Sanchez
Normally I would agree with you. But the absolute ridiculousness of the reason behind him being arrested is why I disagree in this case.
Noah Walker
moral of the story: don't steal shit for a church's car.
Jeremiah Taylor
Yeah. Lochte getting into a drunken brawl and then lying to the Brazilian press is one thing. Stealing campy NK propaganda is another. It's not even like when kids steal stop signs and people end up getting killed.
Parker Hughes
its not ridiculous tho. thats exactly the root of the problem im talking about here.
the laws of a country should be taken seriously no matter how illegitimate the government may seem to us. its not up to an individual to say
"oh ill just break this law, go home and nothing will happen" that kind of thinking is what i find to be actually ridiculous.
Jeremiah James
>church's car What? I think your google translate is getting buggy, my NKIDF friend.
Matthew Ross
this
guy is a complete moron
>go to Korea >NORTH KOREA >ignore people saying ti's bad idea >steal shit cause why not? >literally die of stupidity
Joseph Sanders
C'mon. It's one thing to get locked up for things you shouldn't be doing in foreign countries, like illicit drugs. But a death sentence over stealing propaganda kitsch seems a bit much.
Juan Martin
pretty ridiculous whining from a country that murdered a million Iraqis just for kicks.
Nathan Thomas
you have any idea what they actually think in north korea?
not saying it's not a bit much but you can't honestly say you're suprised can you?
Ryder Price
>a death sentence It was 15 years. They could have just said he was a spy and well, pic related.
Christian Morgan
Lochte's ass shoulda gone to jail. Everyone of them involved in that situation shoulda gone to jail. I understand where you are coming from. And I wouldn't go to a different country and disrespect their laws either. However, I still sympathize for this man who was tortured and eventually died over such a small thing. I'm more trying to say that this instance justifies further action against NK considering what they're willing to do to someone over a poster.
Ian Sullivan
yea i agree the outcome was totally unnecessary. but it could have been avoided if Warmbler just followed the laws.
also
remember that were talking about north korea here.
Adrian Johnson
It's just common decency to treat foreigners with a bit of indulgence. If a NK were jaywalking in the US and a cop ran him over with his police cruiser for breaking the jaywalking law, I would object to that as well.
Daniel Cooper
it was like 1 and a half years dude. from January 2016 to June 2017
he was sentenced to hard labor.
Parker Adams
Them sand niggers deserved it. They had valuable stuff. Ain't our fault they couldn't adequately defend it.
Gabriel Price
just gonna leave this here
Nathaniel Anderson
15 years hard labor in a NK jail is a de facto death sentence.
Ryder Anderson
>Warmbler why you're spelling Warmbler when his is actually Warmbier
Thomas Bennett
>Warmbier, a student who was imprisoned in North Korea from January 2016 to June 2017 after being convicted of "hostile acts" against the country. Warmbier, then 21 years old, confessed to stealing a political propaganda poster and was sentenced to 15 years' hard labor.
Caleb Cruz
>this instance justifies further action against NK no. i absolutely disagree.
the only thing we might deserve to know is what lead to his death. how did he end up in a coma?
my uneducated guess would be he was worked into complete exhaustion and fell into a coma probably from mal nutrition / dehydration.
Bentley Williams
we need to stop holding other countries to the standards that we hold our own country too.
its a different place. different people. have respect for their way of life.
Zachary Kelly
because north korea forces american tourists to hard labor this is the first time theyve killed an american tourist and therefore this was unexpected and unprecedented. you should feel bad for otto the same reason you should feel bad for a guy whos lazy so he doesnt tie his shoes and inevitably trips but instead of getting a twisted ankle like everyone else breaks both legs and is stuck in a wheelchair for 3 months
Luis Johnson
nk government has to appear to be mega tough on foreigners to keep their own people convinced they mean business
nk citizens live under the worse, most brutal and repressive regime in the world. if any of them did what warmbier is alleged to have done, they would have been executed without trial. if the nk government lets foreigners off for the same crime it makes citizens think their government isn't as strong as it claims to be
warmbier didn't deserve to die at all and the nk government are a bunch of ridiculous bastards, but they've created a giant evil machine that they have to keep maintaining somehow (or let it collapse)
Wyatt Young
seems like i have my info messed up.
ok so the story was he was sentenced to 15 years but only served 1.5 years.
i guess it could be considered a life sentence then
Jace Clark
Sorry user I disagree. I want to know more about his condition while there and what exactly lead to him being in the state he came back in. But I think either China needs to annex them. Or we need to bomb them.
Julian Gonzalez
well I think it's obvious that the harshness of that sentence was mainly influenced by political resans like trying to build up pressure making a statement whatsoever.
but i strongly have to agree with OP as far as just because we people in western capitalist countries think that our set norms and human rights etc. are the right way to deal with things we can not automaticaly assume that they actually are and for people who are raised in a different setting they can seem as obviously wrong to them as it feels vice versa to us to imprism someone for stealing a political poster /that maybe even shows their leader whom they maybe hold sacred i don't know...
Noah Cook
>you should feel bad for a guy whos lazy lol no. your comparison is terrible.
Camden Sanchez
So then why don't we respect the middle East and their sharia law?
Alexander Perry
>considered I'm sure they had every intention of making it the full 15 and not a day shorter. I wouldn't be surprised if someone in NK is getting executed for letting him die, thus denying the Republic it's pound of flesh.
Joshua Reyes
It is an ancient principle to treat the foreigner with hospitality because foreigners are vulnerable. If a North Korean inadvertently broke a minor US law, the right thing to do would be to let it go.
Jordan Gomez
pics of him stealing poster or it didn't happen
Isaac Richardson
i think chinas going to do everything in their power to keep NK relatively stable.
if NK where to collapse, China would be flooded with millions of refugees and china is already dealing with over population.
so china taking care of NK just wont happen. considering NK shares borders with Russia and well, we cant count on russia doing anything against NK either.
this is the only reason we havnt fucked NK yet. retaliation from China and Russia is definitely anticipated.
Brody Long
Yeah, that makes sense. Still, it's not like they couldn't have just tossed him out of the country without anyone knowing. Where did he steal the propaganda poster from anyway?
Grayson Thomas
except stealing a poster is not a minor law. its a matter of national security to the N. Koreans. its a far more important law than you are giving it credit for.
Ian Wright
Dumb fucks, if you have a problem with getting dead, don't go to North Korea as an American.
The rest of you tards need to recognize that not everyone is afraid of dying like you are. When we do big shit that could get us killed, we do it because it's worth the risk to us. Don't whine about us getting killed if it happens. We knew the risk, we took it, it worked out that way. Oh well!
I deal with your culture of timid & frightened suburban pipes who think your lives are precious every fucking day. They aren't. There's 8 billion humans. The species will go on. Everyone who dies doing a thing they wanted to, versus dies rotting in a home alone and reeking of piss having lived sheltered pointless lives, is a fucking winner.
Live with purpose, die with purpose.
Blake Richardson
even north koreans knew they fucked up which is why they sent him back to america. no one felt bad when he was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor for being stupid but they went overboard and turned him into a potato. when it was clear they couldnt keep him alive as a potato realized they went too far and sent otto to back to america so he would at least technically die on american soil
Robert Smith
It's a god damned poster. It's not worth taking a life over.
Jordan Sullivan
>they went too far and sent otto to back to america so he would at least technically die on american soil
holy fuck itd be a different story if he died on NK soil.
its interesting to think about how things would have played out if that where the case.
Elijah Brown
maybe in america my friend.
Hudson Nguyen
Because they're pushing for conflict with North Korea for whatever reason.
Ian Scott
>retarded crypto Jew posing as a Christian steals state property >>Obamba and Drumpf please save me oh crocodile tears >draconian puppet state >>sentences him to goofy de facto death sentence I don't know....if this were a car accident I'd say everyone was at fault. Otto got his. I don't think North Korea deserves anything necessarily, but really if America just indiscriminately started using genome weapons and WMDs in general against her enemies. That'd be fine.
Mason Turner
and youve tied your shoes every single time youve put your shoes on? what about just taking out the trash checking the mail
Jaxon Jackson
>live with purpose >die with purpose
>die over a fucking poster and likely because you are tortured or worked to death
Yeah totally died for a good purpose
Asher Martin
lol No it isn't.
Luis Adams
I don't think China would do anything but mass soldiers at the border to prevent the migration of refugees, same with Russia. North Korea is a thorn in China's side and a stain on their reputation. Just like us, they don't want them around either. Either way. The world recognizes that NK is a problem that needs to be taken care of. I just wish our country could sit down and talk to China and Russia and figure some shit out instead of always having to be on the other side of every issue ever.
Jaxon James
posing the problem like that i kind of agree with, but dying for a poster is kind of too much for me.
Adrian Phillips
was North Korean Law his major? Also on a side note I'm pretty sure any 21 year old american who gets black bagged by the NK would be confessing to whatever the fuck they wanted in short order. don't necessarily think he didn't do it, just don't really trust their propaganda machine, especially after their botulism/sleeping pill excuse, and convenient timing for commuting his sentence to send him home as he was dying
Dylan Baker
>tfw u discover the first five books of the Bible are straight from the torah >and all christians are crypto-jews >posing as friendlies
Owen Gonzalez
No, in America it's the same god damned story of the government pretending that they can cover their corruption and mistakes by calling it a "matter of national security." People shouldn't die and corruption should not go unpunished just because some bureaucrat labels something a "matter of national security."
Carter Morales
He was sentenced to 15 years but served closer to 1,5 years, however once released he had suffered massive brain damage and was basically dead from then on, he just died fully now. His forced TV confession seems very unnatural too. youtube.com/watch?v=BJ8CINk20rQ
Charles Ramirez
>if NK where to collapse, China would be flooded with millions of refugees and china is already dealing with over population.
Why not just house the refugees in North Korea? Plenty of land there.
Dominic Howard
kek I love when christians think Judaism isn't the defining foundation of their ideology.
Tyler Cruz
Poster story is made up by NK govt, just an excuse to arrest an American for political leverage (before they fucked up and killed him). He's dumb for going, but he didn't "mess with North Korea"
Nathaniel Edwards
in both america and north korea actually in north korea the sentence for taking down the poster was 15 years not death but they killed him anyway the punishment was too harsh no matter what country
Carson Torres
yes my shoes are always tied. i tie them once and leave them tied and slip them on whenever i need to wear shoes.
and i double knot mine so they only untie when i untie them
Liam Bennett
Leviticus 19: 33“‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 34The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
So, are you PLA or privately contracted?
Justin Gonzalez
It's normally a minimum expectation that if a prisoner falls seriously ill i.e cancer or in a coma then they get returned to comfort for the final days or if they're in a coma they're returned to their family. Although I wouldn't surprised if this is used an excuse to start some kind of stupid war. At the end of the day when we really return to reality and look at this. A man has broken the law in a different country and has faced time for it. It might not be the law in his country but it's the law in the other country. He is accountable for this. Although the Koreans say he had botulism the American doctors dispute this. And the Koreans also say he fell into a coma after taking the sleeping pill. The autopsy will tell I'm sure. Bare In mind we should take everything we hear with a pinch of salt
Tyler Richardson
thats what the united nations is for. but russia never shows up for those meetings.
Joshua Walker
Maybe not go to north Korea on vacation. Thank god his genes have been purged from the pool.
Blake Thomas
it was reported his confession was forced.
Blake Scott
>believing North Korean propaganda Sorry Kim, no one actually believes he did this for "a friend's mom who wanted to ham it in an American church" who was going to give him a "$10k used car" and give his mother "$200k if he didn't come back"
At least make up a lie people will believe
Samuel Phillips
you make a decent point that i have to agree with user.
Julian Moore
>Why not just house the refugees in North Korea? Plenty of land there.
and whose going to take responsibility for setting up a new country?
Ryan Jones
The English was awkward af, obviously it was forced. Americans don't generally write or speak in broken English. And did you hear the story they made up? It's the plot from a cartoon
Leo Sanders
The united nations is useless
Bentley Flores
and i suppose russia knows this
William Morris
Yeah, not really the correct situation to place this speech, despite being pretty good.
Charles Thompson
>and whose going to take responsibility for setting up a new country?
Could be China. If it has a problem with overpopulation, it would want the extra land.
Is imperialism suddenly unpopular these days? What country wouldn't want to own more land?
Jace Hughes
if anything NK sets an example as to how we should treat criminals over here. break the law, get fucked.
North Korea did nothing wrong.
Eli Ortiz
>It's the plot from a cartoon You underestimate rural America, it IS a fucking cartoon, 3 Stooges tier at the very least.
>in b4 elitist
Wyatt Perez
This. One less snowflake. Thanks DPRK.
Can we send more over?
Samuel Thomas
Why should we have to listen to every single country's opinion when there are only a small handful that actually matter?
Tyler Sanders
yeah. funny how brazen all these libtards are. i'd love to see them take to the streets of NK and protest how hurt their feelings are.
Jason Watson
Eh, what happened to Otto is a travesty, but US/NK relations are already at a nadir. I don't know what the US could do to NK short of war, which would be the worst option for everyone.
Mason Lee
There are more complications and paperwork involved when you want to expand your empire nowadays
Jeremiah Morgan
correction: this WAS Otto Warmbier
Sebastian Reed
oh boo hoo. some faggot decided he could steal whatever he wanted in NK and not get in trouble, only to remember he's in NORTH FUCKING KOREA and he got beaten into a coma for it. Why are people surprised or upset over this? It's like being told not to piss in the wind but doing it anyway and claiming it was a freak accident you got piss all over yourself.
Blake Williams
That's a pretty bold claim about the two...Christianity was a sect of Judaism at one time, yes, but tell me that Orthodox Jews and Mormons are kin...and I'll chuckle. They're really pretty different faiths collectively...both Abrahamic, but it stops there. Otto was ethnically Jewish and even participated in Birth Right.
>Torah Not necessarily some denominations don't even use the Old Testament for any reason whatsoever. There was some heresy that still persists to this day (Gnosticism, Manicheanism, something else) that basically stated the god of the Old Testament was Satan. This idea still persists and due to some other heresy that maintains that the Jews were pruned from the vine and that Christians became the New Israel and that they are now 'chosen.' I believe this is called supersessionism.
Anyway, they share roots, but your views on Judaism and Christianity are dare I say generalistic at best and not very insightful. [spoiler]I don't mean to be this much of an asshole (I know spoiler tags don't work here but this should be a clue) but I bet you two can't even name the various tradition of scriptural interpretation or can accurately explain contemporary biblical hermeneutics and why this is important in differentiating the religious claims of either faith[/spoiler]
They share a few books at most depending on denomination maybe Catholicism being the great intermediary between Judaism and mainstream Protestantism.
I don't mean to prattle but here it is. Christianity and Judaism have shared roots but ultimately their eschatology alone differentiate them significantly. Jews are waiting on the third temple and the messhiak. Christians are waiting on Christs return who is for them the messiah.
t. a concerned user about general pop statements that lack substance and insight
Jonathan Bell
You're an idiot... consequence was disporportional to the crime. Even within their own country towards their own citizen.
I'm against telling people how to live their lives, against people coming into my house and tell me how to do things... but if I see the neighbor beat his wife, I'm still going to go over, beat his ass and call the cops.
We have a fucking responsibility to our people that visit there and the people that live there. An imaginary fucking line, is not what should prevent us to care in such situations.
Nicholas Jenkins
I don't know if declaring war on North Korea would necessarily be a good thing. Take this for example.
USA and UK kill Hussein. This creates a space for power in Iraq. Terrorists were welcomed in
Gaddafi in Libya. Terrorists come in.
Afghanistan was already crawling with Islamic extremists. With all the free space they formed the so called islamic state.
Will invading North Korea unite Korea or hand it over to terrorism
Justin Lopez
i don't see how beating a foreigner for thinking he can take whatever he wants off the walls is disproportionate. More judicial systems should work like NK's.
1. Dont break the law 2. DONT BREAK THE LAW 3. Mind your own business 4. Do your fucking job 5. Don't be a menace 6. Be glad you've got what you've got. 7. DONT BREAK THE FUCKING LAW
Isaac Collins
>I'm still going to go over, beat his ass Not where I live. You'll be ded. Everyone is strapped.
Lincoln Gray
The argument is proportionality.
Not every infraction deserves heavy punishment. You don't get life in prison for jaywalking. Otto's case is just an opportunity for politicians to highlight that and show how unaligned North Korea is with the rest of the world.
Tyler Brooks
its not just more land theyre getting. theyre getting millions of dying people. some holding high positions of power that do not want to lose it.
absorbing a country doesnt just mean "woo hoo more land for us"
and besides north korea is shit for land. a lot of it sucks and is uninhabitable.
Jack Harris
Break the rules pay the consequences. It's very clear. He knew what he was getting into. If ypu don't want to be tortured, don't steal posters. Why is that hard to understand?
Joshua Butler
every block in the pyramid matters user.
Thomas Cook
i don't think the act itself should be illegal but if you cause an accident by jaywakling you should be charged with causing the accident. even if you're injured in it. like changing lanes while making a turn.
Austin Phillips
Americans will never understand this.
Tyler Torres
>15 years hard labor for stealing a poster >"its not ridiculous tho."
You're either a moron or a troll. Fuck off.
Aaron Flores
The only reason these vacuums of power were created is because we left Iraq and Afghanistan before we were done. Libya we never put boots on the ground but toppled a regime and left it for whoever had a gun. I didn't like how long those wars lasted, but we were already in them and should have finished them off correctly instead of rushing out. To prevent this from happening in Korea, we would need to occupy for as long as necessary. Not pull out when liberals become war weary.
Nathan Evans
So you honestly believe someone was going to pay 200,000 dollars to some kid('s mom) so he could steal North Korean propaganda to hang inside an American church?
Lol ok
Adam Perez
Is there proof he actually tried to steal anything tho?