Is there some actual rational argument against consensual non-reproductive incest?

Is there some actual rational argument against consensual non-reproductive incest?

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Well, I...Uhh....

...Shit.

No.

No.

Same for consensual sex with minors.

How about, don't fuck your family? Just as a general, moral thing?

If it involves minors, then there is the fact that minors cannot predict the consequences of consensual sex. Or simply, they cannot give consent.

So you are wrong

The only argument is morals and society. Also I don't want to fuck family members, and if im honest I never saw the point in it. There are 7+ billion people in the world,and 5+ thousand of them live in your town. So why fuck the only 2 or 3 members of your family when there is so much more, likely better, choices. I guess thats the only argument

>sex with minors
>consensual
Pick one (assuming that by "minor" you mean "under the age of consent).

And why would that be wrong?

OP here. When I say "consensual" I mean actually fucking consensual, excluding underage people. I'm no goddamn pedo.

Or fuck your family I don't care

Well you're the king of fucking yourself, you tell us, chief

You're also not someone who thinks very clearly. All you have here is word salad.

It's argued that minors do not yet posses the appropriate mental faculties to decided whether or not to give consent.. There is a gradient ofc: people who mentally/sexually mature at different rates, but how do you apply that to law? Being able to fuck any aged person is obviously an impractical extreme, and I can also see the age of 18 as a bar that's set a little too high, though lowering the bar too much would probably, on average, prove to be too destructive to most youngsters due to the different lifestyles either can handle. All that to say, instead of setting an arbitrary age of consent, would it be better to implement some test that can be taken to qualify someone as being able to give consent? Would a timeout age be included in this system (say for instance, the current age legal adult age) that would make it to where the ability to give consent would automatically be assumed for that person?

Looks like someone can't read.

...

You have conflated a malum in se with a malum prohibitum. OP is clearly looking to discuss the former while it is clear that minority and age of consent attempt to define the latter.

What is the age of consent? If you say "eighteen", you have been brainwashed by the neo-Roundheads of the United Snakes who are foisting this concept on the rest of the world thanks to their oppressive and invasive criminal laws.

This is ironic in that the majority of the jurisdictions of the United Snakes puts the age of sexual consent anywhere between 14 and 17. The irony comes from the neo-Roundheads' deliberate confusion of the age of contractual majority in commercial law with the age of sexual consent of common and criminal law.

OP here. No, I don't mean to discuss the former, I already said it. Looks like I have to redefine it.

>consensual, non-reproductive incest involving people over the age of consent

Let's not turn this into a pedo thread.

>the age of 18 as a bar that's set a little too high
In most places it's around 16, you dumb fuck.

yes power dynamics. Like you dont want a boss having sex with employee cause there can be problems with somwhat pressured consent. This can apply to an older sibling, parent or whatever.

This wouldn't apply to like twins, or like rational all grown up adults. But in fear of normalization you wouldn't want other less healthy relationships to try it out.

name?

Genetic diversity. Shut up

I was expecting someone to start spamming with incest photos but nothing

All oldfags are gone?

>consensual NON-REPRODUCTIVE incest

They have jobs, now.

...

>oldfags have jobs

Disappointed?

Make sense.
It's Sunday night for some. No one from EU?

meh

It's illegal

Also most people have ugly offspring

okay ..first let me ask a couple of questions :

how are you ..?
and how old are they ?...
are they blood ?

The biggest argument against consensual non-reproductive incest is that consent is inpossible. Even as adults, there is an imbalance of power between family members that can be abused. And unlike a relationship, it is impossible to complete sever you social/biological ties should the relationship sour.

But imbalances of power exist in regular relationships too, and people are stronger than we give them credit for, so I'm personally for massive orgies at family reunions.

second :
are you overweight ?
are you a socially outcast ?
are you home schooled ?
what is your religious affiliation

third :
are your parents divorced ?
or is one of your parents an absentee , IE military or the like ?

probably not, really

assuming you accept evolutionary theory, you realize we have a common ancestor, indicating that EVERY bit of life on this planet is related, in some sense you could never fuck someone that you aren't related to, no matter how far up the chain you had to trace lineage. "near" relatives end where? who sets that arbitrary line in the sand? is it 5th cousin? 7th? 18th?

societal ethics and codes of morality, at least from what I can tell, generally arise out of action, representations of actions, and the observations of the effects of those actions so as to create a more cohesive and successful tribe, think 10000 b.c., john doe fucks his sister and they have a baby that comes out infertile or maybe with three ears or whatever the fuck, everybody else in the tribe is going to observe that and respect that they shouldn't fuck eachother.

as far as non reproductive incest? i don't think you'll ever have a case against it really, unless you think hedonism is inherently bad (and that sex only for pleasure is inherently hedonistic, and not a biological urge)

No, OP sir, your proposal approaches incest as a malum in se and not a malum prohibitum. You specifically excepted the reasons why incest might be a malum in se. Your respondents have diverted your topic first into the malum prohibitum of incest and then (modulating the topic because most brothers and sisters living together are "under age") into the malum prohibitum of "underage" sex in general. Then some dickhead started flapping his elbows about pedo this and pedo that.

To return to your original question, then, is there something essentially wrong with incest (malum in se) or is it something that we don't do because we're told we should not do it (malum prohibitum)?

Be afraid, OP. Be very afraid. We might have chased off the neo-Roundhead pedohunters with this definition but we have also turned the thread into a religious free-for-all. The Abrahamic religions are all intensely tribal by nature: they demand clearly defined genealologies and lines of inheritance.

OP : I have asked you some questions to help direct the logic used and understand how you process information
please respond

>"
To return to your original question, then, is there something essentially wrong with incest (malum in se) or is it something that we don't do because we're told we should not do it (malum prohibitum)?"

that's exactly what OP was asking lol

Starving
youtu.be/UeehJ-tocqU

An intelligent, well-written post that has some actual content without relying on overcomplicated language to hide the lack of a message. A rarity these days in the whole internet, so congratulations.

Yes, I purposely excluded all possible scenarios that may imply other sexual acts not directly related to incest. Lack of consent of course implies rape, the possibility of reproduction calls for the higher likelihood of birth defects in newborns. My main question is essentially "is there something inherently wrong with incest itself, i.e. is it a malum per se?"
I used to be strongly against it purely because of the taboo part. However, I recently started to think critically about it, and to be completely honest, I could not find any purely rational reason why it could be wrong.
As for your point about the Abrahamitic religions, do you think their tribal nature has something to do with their attitude towards incest?

I was taking more about the absolute age that a person is considered an adult. I think there are still some restrictions put on minors that are old enough to be outside of statutory rape laws but still not adults.

They are completely irrelevant to the question, and also, that's not information I'm willing to share.

okay since you are not willing to answer the questions I can assume that you are :

a social pariah.. having no real interaction with anyone outside the family..

most likely you are overweight exacerbating the social collisions that you have on occasions..

you invest a vast amount of time in the fantasy realm either with games and or anime / manga and have/want idealized a relationship with said family member , because of the limited and negative interactions you have had with other people who are not your siblings.

the fact that you are asking for a rational argument for incest means you realize that you are entertaining taboo thoughts and want accomplices to tell you that your not doing anything wrong when you act on these impulses .. the reason that incest is taboo is usually because of the consequences of these actions because sex involves emotions when one or the other person decides to stop ( read them ) one of you gets angry just like if you broke up with a boy/girl friend ...
this then escalates into other destructive behaviors .. incest is psychologically destructive to one or both parties.

in short you looking for someone else to give you permission to do something you know is wrong on levels only you know about...

Most of the time it has negative effects on the sibling relationship. One or both siblings end up getting jealous when the other gets a SO.

You still don't understand my question. What I asked is if there is some reason that doesn't depend on a specific case. All that information, whether true or not, is still completely irrelevant.

it has everything to do with your question:

m/f sex is for procreation, it is also an act of intimacy and bonding and to strengthen the bond of love, known as Eros Love , so unless you are going to marry your sibling ...

then you have Ludus this is essentially lust
I could go on but you are fucking stupid and cant understand what I am talking about anyway... you are just looking for an excuse to do something terrible...

you are not going to agree with anyone that is not in agreement with you .
Your question has been answered many times and in many different ways that are all agreement with each other. YOU just do not like what you are being told.

Either a shit quality troll or truly retarded even by Sup Forums's standards. Leave and never return.

I don't remember dismissing a single answer.

And by the way, no one here is in "agreement" with me. I'm not advocating incest. My stance on the subject is neutral.
This thread has attracted a lot of redditfags, it seems.

There is a lot of overlap between incest and "underage" sex, so you should expect the semantic modulation to continue. To be fair the two questions ought to be treated together, but we cannot expect so much from Sup Forums.

Why is incest taboo? The most typical response is so that we might avoid inbred genetic defects. Standard evidence is hemophilia and alleged mongolism and the standard response is "Yes but the crowned heads of Europe are all cousins."

But what is taboo? "Don't eat that berry because my grandfather knew someone who ate it and died miserably, so no one in our tribe has eaten it ever since." Taboo seems to arise in that manner, as in the cases of hemophilia, mongolism, and most of Deuteronomy. We put this all aside because OP says let's not talk about progeny but there is a very good chance that this is not even true anymore.

After genetics, what do we have other than psychological trauma from "undue influence". But what is that, exactly? At what point does the volunteer become the victim? (Or vice versa.) I have known people who had practiced incest who came out psychologically healthy; I have known many more who have come out psychologically disturbed. Post hoc ergo propter hoc? I doubt it: most people these days are psychologically disturbed because rampant capitalism brings out the worst in people.

We don't need to inject an economic motive into the question at this point, at least not on Sup Forums. But it does deserve to be considered in a more thoughtful forum than this one.

Is there a sort of incest in which the practitioners are better adjusted psychologically than others? Sister-brother? Daughter-father? Brother-brother or sister-sister? Son-mother? Unto x degrees of consanguinity… Or is incestual success more a matter of environment, maybe St George Utah is healthier than New York City? I must post now before we get pruned or deleted or banned. MAGA!

>assuming all incest is between siblings

You're either a fuckwit for trolling with weak bait or you're a fuckwit for thinking that Sup Forums has a reasonable answer and isn't just trolling you for fap material.

>yet he bites

then you should learn to read :
>>Most of the time it has negative effects on the sibling relationship. One or both siblings end up getting jealous when the other gets a SO


>>incest is psychologically destructive to one or both parties.

>implying it was me, OP, who answered