How can you have free will if consciousness is a product of the brain. The brain is physical, tangible...

How can you have free will if consciousness is a product of the brain. The brain is physical, tangible. You have no free will because the laws of physics dictate your brain, ergo your conscious mind.

The universe is deterministic, all things happen because something happened before it.

there is no free will
atoms > molecules > cells > neurons > brain

sub-atomic particles are subject to quantum physics. at such a small scale shit happens or does not happen for no/any reason.

you choose nothing, everything is up to probability.

rolling...

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Shut the fuck up you absolute little faggot. You're not half as smart as you think you are, you're just a pretentious cunt.

and ?

kys

Denying free will is the lazy fags excuse for being an under achiever - because "you can't help what you are", right?
I'm sure that we're bound by some physical limitatations including but not limited to hormonal influences and bodily limits, but going as far as saying that free will doesn't exist, or that the future is already set in stone, is just a dumb idea that leads to laziness.
Get that shit out of your head or enjoy your sub-medicore life.

So there's no free will? Lol yeah ok, you know what you should do about that? Kill yourself!

no need to be rude

ha!

Rolling for what?

AYO HOL UP HOL UP

*SMACKS LIPS*

U BE SAYIN DEY SPACE MANE GOT ON DEM WELFARE CHECKS???

There are some things hardwired in the brain, BUT there are also many other things you can choose. The things that are hardwired are more trivial than everything you can choose to do or become.

If it weren't atoms, molecules, cells etc., then what? What magical thing would suddenly give you 'free will' that's any different, better, or more efficient than what we are already made of? And for that matter, so what if you have true 'free will'? You no longer have to eat, drink and sleep, big fucking deal.

You can choose to be free, but that choice is up to you.

and planets made of fried watermelon

you cannot choose anything, it's just the illusion of choice. The universe (like all other things) is deterministic.

You just chose to be a moron, is that not proof enough?

Well, for example, OP can choose to kill himself, between that muffin or apple pie, what his routine will be, what they will do for a living (or not at all) once they grow further than 12 years old, or even one day to transcend the human body uploading their consciousness onto a computer system or fusing it with the universe one day or some radical shit like that. The options are literally endless, the universe can't be deterministic when every one of those minuscule choices everyone makes combine to create significant consequences, and not to mention, if we live long enough as a species, it's possible we can quite literally determine the fate of the universe itself after billions of years of progress. Furthermore, the universe began in chaos, and our current reality is a result of the interplay between random matter, the effects of which can be observed on the quantum level to this very day. And guess what? Our minds are made of the stuff.

and? I see what you're struggling with. You need recognition. Or you're searching for god. But you're not made to live backstage. That doesn't lead to anything.

god is not real, we created god. Not the other way around.

That's the most retarded thing I've read in months, if not years.

The Universe follows strict patterns which we happen to call physical laws, not to mention the chain of causality.

OP is right. Free will is an illusion.

op here
thank you user, free will is an illusion, i agree.

>the universe can't be deterministic

that had me dead

I'm not making this thread to tell people to not pursuit happiness or to commit suicide. Probably should have said that from the get-go.

This is Sup Forums, the cesspool of Sup Forums. Most of these retards don't know how to rub two sticks together.

/Someone else
Let us assume for one second that we could create a computer that could accurately predict the movement of the smallest pieces we consist of. All of them. With that assumption you could argue that by speeding up the simulation you'd be able to see into the future because it's already determined, BUT that would require us to have mapped the entire universe, that would require the computer to work perfectly forever.
Since we don't have that kind of capability yet (or quiet possibly ever till the extinction of humanity) it's a waste of time to ponder about that problem. Let me explain with a little example:
If someone were to manually create the lottery numbers by some algorithm he would have an advantage of knowing them first, but for everyone else they might just be random, so while the assumption that it's random is technically wrong, it's a practical simplification because assuming otherwise has no advantage for observers.

the cesspool of anonymity*

we actually can already do this on a small scale. We can see fractions of a nanosecond into the future by tracking a few sub-atomic particles then determining the effects it will have on its surroundings. But yea, nothing like a large scale lottery prediction obviously but why is it wrong to ponder it?

Making a simulation, an imprecise one, has nothing to do with determinism.

You're comparing apples with oranges.

There's nothing special about brains, I.e. they're not made of exotic matter, and I have no doubt it's possible to recreate synthetic brains, the technology just doesn't exist yet.

Because it's a waste of time - don't get me wrong, i appreciate philosophical thoughs, but that's like spending hours each day wondering if you're gonna be struck by lightening.

this

it's one or the other. philosophy or practicality lol

Youre defining free will in some faggy wannabe intellectualist way. Ur definition of free will is fucking retarded. We can choose to do good or bad thats free will you fucking ass cunt. Everytime u decide to not rape your dog or murder a child even though you want to youre exercising a variant of free will you fucking abhorrent swine.

is this what happens when you remain a virgin for too long?

youre all dumb as fuck, if humans didnt have free will, we'd be like computers waiting for something to tell us what to do, i think with my own brain about whatever i want, youd have to be a retard to not realize thats free will

>we'd be like computers waiting for something to tell us what to do

congratulations you just figured out humanity and determinism!

>We can choose to do good or bad thats free will

actually, you can't choose to do anything.
Choice is an illusion.

don't expect many people to take this pill. it's to hard to swallow and its better that they don't imo
youtube.com/watch?v=0hXbxeIYcZ4

>i think with my own brain about whatever i want, thats free will

so because you think, that means you have free will? lol

Why did you choose to become a faggot

>Making a simulation, an imprecise one, has nothing to do with determinism.
True, but i actually implied a precise one - a perfect simulation, maybe i didn't make that clear.

Keep in mind about the number of particles we're talking about, we'd need to map every single particle that has an influence on a human to correctly predict it's behaviour.
The average human has about 2.3*10^28protons, 1.8*10^28 neutrons and 2.3*10^28 electrons in his body, but that doesn't cut it, we additionally also have to map everything that human experiences, that calculation will be a bit more difficult because the human brain is a master of abstraction, but you'll believe me that it will drastically increase the amount of data. (Keep in mind: The currently bigger hard drives are in ranges of 10 terrabyte = 8*(10^12) bits.)
>education.jlab.org/qa/mathatom_04.html
We can have this discussion again when we've got hard drives able to save 1 Shilentnobyte (10^30)Bytes, and processors that are able to change these values without error about 100 times per second (even though that would still create major errors). Oh, and by the way: I assumed that only the position of atoms, but not their velocity, direction or increase of speed is important, which is an incredible simplification. Also we're currently only talking about 1 human.

as op said
>sub-atomic particles are subject to quantum physics. at such a small scale shit happens or does not happen for no/any reason.

right at 2:40

>10 terrabyte = 8*(10^12) bits.
Whoops, made a mistake: 10*8*(10^12) bits.

there is no "choose"
choice is an illusion.

processors are just a bunch of logic gates engraved into silicone wafers.

in order to map all sub-atomic movement in the universe (which is infinite) you would need an infinite sized processor. kek. Also because this processor is infinite, it also has infinite velocity because it has infinite mass. i rest this case as impossible m10

Oh and i realized one more error: I only summarized if an atom exists or not, but we'd have to actually map them which would require three coordinates with extraorinary accuracy.
Multiply everything i calculated with 10^10 again.

But how about creating a computer that would predict things on a smaller scale? We're talking about deeep deeep scifi shit here, but theoretically speaking that would be possible - right?