Has "democratic socialism" EVER worked?

Has "democratic socialism" EVER worked?

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By definition, socialism consists of the tyrannical rule of the dumbest and weakest in society, so...no. It's not hard to knock them out of power and replace them with dictators.

It never happened.

Doesn't he describe himself as a supporter of "social democracy" though?

Has democratic socialism ever been defined?

Socialists started attaching the word democratic to it as soon as the collapse of the USSR was evident.

They're in europe, posing as "social democrats, moderates, liberals" they're all servants of Marx and Trotsky.

Hehe.
>Democracy
>Socialism
Pick one.
They are literally mutually exclusive. But, Bernie's base are milennials, and I can tell you from experience it is not hard to convince a pothead of the craziest things.

Democratic Socialism or Social Democracy are just names for the same thing Marxist Socialism, After Lenin succeed with his Revolution, Stalin took power and threw out Trotsky. It always moves toward authoritarian single party rule. If not it collapses very fast.

I thought Comrade Sanders declared himself as a "Democratic Socialist". Wikipedia says that and "Social Democracy" are different things but he keeps bringing up Sweden and other Social Democracies .

>Sweden
Kek.

>By definition, socialism consists of the tyrannical rule of the dumbest and weakest in society,

citation? that doesn't sound like an official definition. It sounds like something a brainwashed proletariat would say.

Sure. Frederick Nietzche, Will to Power. He was on the front lines of it with the socialistic communes in Germany and France.

the real difficulty for socialism (and in fact for every form of gov) is how it can be controlled to keep up with the interest of the nation, and not for personal agenda.

as a person often labeled as extreme far left ideas, I begin to find out this is not really possible with the regular election process.

A system with one chamber composed of randomly choosen deputies that can be choosen only once has better chance to address most of the issues toward a real socialism.

i.e. corruption (not possible as you will never know who is gonna be in charge), representativity of all the social classes (can't perform better than random), ...

>I thought Comrade Sanders declared himself as a "Democratic Socialist"
Hmm. Maybe he said that once by mistake and people won't let it go. I hope he's not. That would indicate that he is controlled opposition and never had any chance to win.

No, those ideas are literally retarded together.

"Everybody getting to pick who gets the free shit"

>something a philosopher said is fact
>trying to pass off subjective soft sciences as fact

haha, no.
there's a reason why it's a "soft science".

The cult of personality works. I don't think half of the people voting for Bernie have read his website

god it triggers me to no fucking end when people try to imagine mao as this free love socialist hippie

>Sanders preaches socialism
>also preaches revolution
>openly states that it would be the first step in changing America for the better
It doesn't matter what he calls himself or what the proles think. He's a fucking commie playing the fucking long con.

You just stumped yourself. Democratic socialism is a philosophical idea because it's only an idea and has yet to be successful nor applied anywhere.

Small homogenous white countries made it work until they let in muslim savages in the name of tolerance.

Listen to Bernie when he's asked what democratic socialism is. Every single time, he flounders and says "Well, uhh... we gotta be like Scandinavia... Norway, Sweden, and other Nordic countries... We have a lot to learn."

Even he doesn't know.

True. Frankly, I think it's just the great ruse to plunge the country into crisis so they'll throw up a dictator to take care of the crisis the untouched politicians created. The French Revolution comes to mind, instigated by Robespierre the Lawyer.

Sweden :^)

Top kek.

>Small homogenous white countries made it work until they let in muslim savages
I want this meme to die. The Scandinavian countries collapsed in the 90's and never fully recovered even before they let half of Africa in. Socialism doesn't work, period.

No it has always failed
The public healthcare people in denmark enjoys?
Failure
The paid maternity leave mother's enjoy in France?
Failure
The free college people in Germany enjoy?
Failure

One failure after another. That's why Europe is having riots everyday to protest socialism people hate it so much. Its like Stalins russia

No.
>But-
No, fuck off.

Also true. Depends on your definition of "works." Successful? Not at all. Did they limp on and exist, becoming more and more crippled with time? Right up until now, bahaha, when they're shooting themselves in the head.

The fuck is all this commies posting lately? I come here to avoid seeing more of their stupidity.

Our president and our prime minister are social democrats.
Just look at the state of our country.

I was wondering the same thing, where the fuck did all these dumbshit commies come from all of a sudden?

Sup Forums is looking more and more like my Facebook wall.

>Socialism
This is not "classical" socialism though (which is what a lot of people are thinking of when they say socialism). They are all principally free-market based.

People put too much focus on political ideology, but in reality a lot of them can work just fine. There are other factors that will affect the fate of nations, like corruption, social issues, foreign relations and trade. In the era of globalization, the way they approach free trade (and the way in which it'll affect their own domestic economy) probably is the most important issue.

Neoliberalism is putting a lot of pressure on all nations to conform to a certain model, and those who resist end up being sabotaged in many ways.

Market socialism is still fucking socialism, comrade.

>sweden doesn't exist
>canada doesn't exist
>france doesn't exist

Don't worry, leaf, you'll soon be tasting the wonders of """democratic""" socialism, just like my country has been for the last decades. Stare at the abyss.

Market socialism is different from classical socialism
Market socialism can be called a kind of "socialism", but this is poorly defined nowadays
>Market socialism is still fucking socialism
is somewhat ambiguous

You're not white, buddy.

Yes, it worked in my country thats why we are not El Salvador tier

But then the jews came and forced us to dismantle the state and accept their free market policies

>It's totally different and it totally works guys!
Your country is falling apart.

Who wants to be like any of those countries?

holy fuck you know nothing about Nietzsche.

and if you did you wouldn't quote little bits of him as if they accurately captured his thought. fucking pathetic.

Soon you won't be either, leaf.

It works fine until the country runs out of money, then it's all down hill.
Just look at Brazil's economy these past years and you'll see what "social democracy" does.

Anyone that wants to get into an economically superior position without stomping on everyone else.

>canada

Canada being a welfare state is somewhat of a meme. The trend mostly stopped in the 90s (a big shift towards neoliberalism occured), especially in Quebec.

Welfare in Canada is both not enough and too much. It's very hard to live on it. And a lot of people abuse it (receive it multiple times, work under the table, etc).

Nope
t. socialist shithole.

>it's a "socialism is communism meme" thread

Didn't Trudeau ban single males refugees, though?

We live in a democratic republic. The USSR claimed to consist of socialist republics. Communism claims to be the true democracy. To understand this you have to think of the literal definition of democracy. It means "rule by the people". Communists use this to mean the workers. Obviously practice is different than ideaology, but there you go. Democratic socialism is just another name for communism.

kek, it's true!
I think they backed down.
We see some single male Syrians sometimes, but I don't have stats.
The thing is though, Canada is being a lot careful about integration. They're really trying to avoid just dumping them somewhere and having them join Islamic ghettos and shit. In my region, they need a "host family" and will take care of them as guests of some sort. It's kind of weird desu.

Seems like everybody is confused when it comes to actually defining terms in this thread.

So lets assume that social democracy/democratic socialism just means a capitalist state with lots of money fo dem programs. In that case I would say it works just fine so long as you have the right society for it. It worked great in places like Sweden with only their lack of reproduction shutting it down in the end. Hitler probably could have had plenty of welfare programs in the Reich given how strong he was setting up his society.

Nobody except an irrelevant minority of free market cultists actually despise those kind of public programs anyway. The overwhelming majority of people on the planet, regardless of class, desire a strong welfare state. Sup Forums only whines about Bernie because Trump told them too. If another great leader showed up with Sanders' programs as well as nationalism they'd follow him in a heartbeat.

>their lack of reproduction shutting it down in the end
Thank the fucking liberal feminists for that. They destroy everything they involve themselves with.

>I think they backed down.

Even if it never got passed, I can't stand how this guy has this "warm, charming" image and seen as pro-refugee, "considerate" when he was perfectly willing to exclude a whole class of refugees - in fact the class most at threat by groups like ISIS.

The burgers have a very corrupt government. They have insanely high public spending and not much to show for it. It feels like Bernie just feeds the beast more. Maybe they need a few years of Trumpism to fix themselves. If he really brings back the jobs, it's probably better than what Bernie would be able to accomplish.

Yes, but not in the way you think.
Democratic Socialism worked excellently to maintain decent relations with both US and the Soviet Union.

There's however a requirement for a democratic socialism to remain relevant as far as it's foreign trade is concerned if you wish it to remain succesful.

This requirement is that third world countries do not industrialise and second world countries restrict their trade via communism.

Otherwise you gotta be an industrialised self-sufficient country that has rampant protectionism going on to prevent the domestic market from being screwed over.

kek, good point!

"We're gonna chose a few people we are going to be compassionate with, and you guys better be compassionate with them unconditionally!"

>This requirement is that third world countries do not industrialise and second world countries restrict their trade via communism.

Whoa what? Can you explain? Requirements demanded by the US and/or the USSR, or are they economic phenomenons of some kind, or what?

No. It's either not democratic, or it's not socialism. In both cases, it leads to scathing poverty. See Venezuela for the latest exhibit of the glorious gifts of democratic socialism. They are literally bartering toilet paper and hunting stray dogs. Socialism is not a joke, it's not even an ideology. It's a mental disease that will rot both brain and society as much as literal arsenic.

You do know that Sweden and Canada has about as much, if not more of a free market than the USA, right?

Venezuela was a petro state. Now they have no way to recover because they have no allies. And their government seems corrupt as fuck.

inb4 Canada is petro-state too
hehe, not really though.
Plus we will recover because our meme leader has the right friends. With the jews, you win!

Social democracy is an alien concept for americans, but quite common here in europe
they donot pretend to overthrow capitalism, merely reform it (welfare state, worker bennies, etc)
Democratic socialism is yet another ideology. You know them by syriza, podemos, and other left edgy fags
They tend to appeal more to edgy student bourgeouis than social democrats (feminism, anti-eu, anti-capitalist, sjws, etc)

European countries tend to have to big parties, one social-democrat the other liberal-conservative (cuckservatives)

Sure, but it is not a diverse economy, because the economy is state-led and the state decided to put all the chips on oil. Centralised, planned economies are doomed to fail because ultimately those that make up government aren't chosen because of their merits in econometry but rather on party loyalty and nepotism.

Yeah.. The cabal behind the Venezuela gov seems like a nasty bunch.. They knew they were taking a big risk and probably didn't give a crap.

And yeah, it's centralization I fear the most with socialism. I can tolerate capitalist elites in a free market society since they are the ones that will protect it from the government since they benefit from it. As long as they don't completely take it over, that economic rent isn't permitted, and that workers are protected from abuse, etc.

I do support the welfare state, but it also causes problems and the liberals refuse to address them. The west mostly has social issues nowdays. Productivity is insanely high.

Americans are stupid so no.
I live in one and it's pretty comfy so yes.

They're nasty because they're socialists. Socialism, when given enough power, will always lead to situations of poverty, degeneracy and collapse. I do not support 'the' welfare state. In my opinion, only the handicapped and the veterans should be supported by the state, the rest can all be done by private savings, private pensioner funds and charity. The aforementioned group of handicapped can of course be reduced by medical research and abortion. Sure, I won't argue Aktion T4, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Well it worked for Chile once

But we came over and basically this

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d'état

The problem is that Hernie says he's a 'democratic socialist', but in reality he's a hardcore commie if you look at his past.

The Danish PM even came to America and said that Denmark and the other Nordic countries are not really socialist overall.

Again with the "social democracy" and "democratic socialism" confusion. Geez.
Yeah, and the US tried to justify it by claiming they that thought they were undergoing Soviet infiltration. Turns out it wasn't really happening, and they knew it.

>Socialism, when given enough power, will always lead to situations of poverty, degeneracy and collapse.
So does laissez-faire capitalism (which is almost never really tolerated; the people would revolt). Pretty much all capitalist countries of the west are "social democracies" of some kind. Even the US, they just suck at it.

Social Democratic Parties have been around since the 19th Century.

/thread

Just as well as democratic rape and democratic looting. Fucking niggers I swear to god

corporations reign under corporate socialism, they buy lawmakers, make laws, gouge consumers, wreak havoc on the environment, practically do anything they want as long as it makes them more profit.

if it helps corporations soo much, what's wrong with giving society the help it needs?

>a randomly selected government
I'll randomly buy you a ticket to a rock show how's that sound?