Help Turn a Berniefag

Currently, I'm a Berniefag
I think that military spending should be lowered enough to provide universal healthcare and government assisted college payments.
Can you goys please convince me that I'm on the wrong side?

Other urls found in this thread:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=NdHtfKZ9iy8
acc.co.nz/about-acc/overview-of-acc/how-were-funded/index.htm
youtube.com/watch?v=FvfHLr5aEqU
tomwoods.com/podcast/ep-481-how-capitalism-can-fix-health-care/
m.watchdog.org/?url=http://watchdog.org/146352/bernie-sanders-va-response/&utm_referrer=#2875
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Vote Hillary

/artilleryforhillary/

Universal healthcare will cost around 3.2 trillion annually, military spending is a small fraction or 600 billion.
We can't afford universal healthcare.

>universal healthcare

Why are liberals so obsessed with this meme?

Are they all such sickly piles of genetic trash that this is all they care about? They're going to the doctors so often that they couldn't possible afford it on their own even with the help of insurance?

In fact, universal healthcare will rival all federal spending combined in costs.

If you can watch ISIS videos of heads being cut off, pictures of blood smeared on the Bataclan floor, read into the instability and threat of a nuclear war in the Middle East, and still not want increased military expenditure, I don't know what to say.

Increased military expenditure doesn't have to correlate to increased number of conflicts (although Hillary would likely disagree), but rather act plainly as a deterrent

But if you'd rather see your tax money go towards paying for a student's Gender Studies degree after she takes a gap year travelling the world, that is fine too

May I ask for a source for this?
I'm not saying you're wrong, I've just never seen any research that wasn't obviously just Fox News propaganda.

...

I would but you have access to google and the will to learn.
Go forth, educated one! Make me proud!

I wonder if Universal Healthcare would be a bad idea for the simple fact that Americans tend to be negligent about their health in general..

We sort of destabilized the Middle East with our military, though, so ISIS is somewhat our fault.
Yes, I accept that Islam is not a religion of peace, and that ISIS should be dealt with, but someone new is just going to rise up again because of how fucked up the "governments" over there are.
Do you think it's possible for us to be more isolationist in our foreign policies but still keep an open market?

depends on what you call universal healthcare.. Its proved that when you have free access to healthcare, people tend to overuse it when its not necessary. We mustn't see healthcare as a way to cure diseases but as a way to prevent them !

Universal Healthcare would be just fine, but only if we are willing to stop the following
>Corn subsidies
>Sugar subsidies
>Mass immigration
>Massive serving size inflation
If we aren't able to stop any of those things it's a fucking waste and I don't want my taxes going to a bunch of fat reckless faggots.

I'm now a #cruzmissile

Watch this

m.youtube.com/watch?v=NdHtfKZ9iy8

Universal healthcare only works within countries with a population less than 10 million. As soon as your population hits 25,000,000+, all forms of socialism, whether policy or a fully implemented system fails - see Venezuela. The fact that you're not sure whether or not the candidate your voting for is right or wrong, the fact you come here and ask us whether this question just goes to show he isn't going to win and that you're asking the wrong question.

The question you need to ask yourself in this election is whether you want a Trump administration or a Clinton administration. Berniecuck is done, that's why we've stopped posting memes about it. Even if you remove all of the super delegates, it only takes losing 62 delegates for him to be mathematically eliminated. Super delegates can change sides at anytime, he started at 42 and is now stuck between 39 and 40 - it fluctuates. It's also the main reason why the sandman's supporters have started to vote for Trump - out of spite, not because they believe in his ideals. The primary reason plebbit rallied around the cuck was because they thought they would have college paid for, instead they paid for the closet commies retirement and an Audi R8.

Trump has already won, we politically assassinated 17 opponents with the last 2 dropping out months before - due to being mathematically eliminated. Berniecuck will go down in history as being the first nominee in US history to lose to just 1 opponent - a woman.

>Why are liberals so obsessed with this meme?
I think it's a nice ideal. What I don't get is how they think it's feasible while importing thousands to millions of third-worlders.

>so ISIS is somewhat our fault.
No Isis was deliberately fostered as a means to take down Syria

It's a fallacy to believe that ISIS is entirely the fault of the West, there have been continuous attempts at establishing a caliphate throughout history (the last attempt notably destroyed by Turkey). There is no doubt that the West played a part, however, in exacerbating the issue. The West also has a remarkably poor record of replacing dictators after overthrowing them.

An isolationist foreign policy from the US would have been ideal 50-60 years ago, but now it must finish what it's started to some extent. The best thing the US can do (alongside the rest of the West) is to continue air strikes and supporting proxy armies, as a ground invasion would be catastrophic for ISIS' propaganda based on Islamic prophecies.

>universal healthcare

He thinks that fatties and junkies that abuse their own bodies should be kept artificially alive exclusively on taxpayers' money. Yeah, no thanks.

why do you believe what you believe?

All the bernfags I know are literally selfish manchildren

are you?

being a recovering drug user, I would rather have my tax money go towards helping with other junkies' rehab than some pathetic fat fucks gastric bypass surgery. I can understand if you have a thyroid problem, and food addiction is a real thing, but some people just donmt give a shit about themselves so why should I?

The American government already pays more to the healthcare system than any other in the world, it doesn't seem it considering how expensive it is, but that's because most of it goes to research which America is amazing at.

Furthermore, university should be seen as an investment and is generally not a cheap thing. Government assistance could raise prices or lower professor wages or whatever. Like all investments, it's not a bad idea to leverage (get a loan) if you're reasonably sure you can get a return.

That being said I think our HECS/HELP system is a great idea, but it does drive foreigners buttmad.

>tfw I could have had the first post but clover error posted consistently

>Are they all such sickly piles of genetic trash
"yes"

Vet fag here. Military spending is stupid wasteful and everybody I knew was there because they couldn't hack it in the real world. Fucking admins and Intel and hospital workers and shit are welfare queens. The military should be strictly combat related roles. We need to cut our military and liberal faggots are right on this one.

> I think that military spending should be lowered enough to provide universal healthcare and government assisted college payments.

Funnily enough I agree with you. In Australia we have universal healthcare and we take a low-interest loan off the government to go to University which we only pay back when we're earning enough to. In terms of military spending ours is minuscule compared to that of your country, but the USA has much more need for a capable military of course. But that's one of the reasons why we can afford such things, which I do generally support. I wouldn't describe myself as a Socialist though, definitely more of a traditional liberal. Though most people in Australia would consider me very conservative or right-wing. Just goes to show how much the zeitgeist has shifted over time.

I want to help people, but I'm just seeing how it's not really possible without a complete change in fiscal policy. I just wanted some reassertion for my doubts and I know how Conservative Sup Forums is, so I figured this would be a good place to post

Hey even if the US did destabilize that shithole Islam would have just done Isis by itself eventually

If Universal Healthcare comes to life in the U.S.
It will pretty much be as bad as the VA. Hospitals we have, all shitty, run down, old equipment, and long lines for people who have been waiting for months just to check a broken arm/leg/etc.

Military spending is money at work, contractors get paid, engineers get paid, incentives are given to ensure competition, we have the most technologically capable military in the world. We spend what we spend to remain ahead of the Chinese and the Russians, we cannot afford to allow either of them a technological edge over us.

They hate the idea of evolution. Evolution shows the reality that people aren't equal.

I wonder why no one has brought up the argument that a socialist healthcare system has already Failed...

There are countless reports of the fucking VA Hospitals being absolute horrendous. Seriously m8s is everyone this blind?

>I want to help people
So why don't you? Why does 'helping people' translate to 'use the threat of violence to make others do things they don't want to do' in your mind?

How does fiscal policy relate to your charitable acts?

>>>>>>>>>>>it's the military it doesn't count

Pretty sure you don't know where the majority of the money even goes, and why we need to keep spending money on military, check your Dept. funding and compare it to the others and dig deep.

No money at all should go to people who have knowingly damaged their bodies so this also applies to smokers.

Trump actually wants some good military changes. He's not a chicken hawk in the mic's pocket like most republicans.

He'll close bases in friendly countries and bring our military home. Then he'll make our allies pay a portion of their bills rather than expect us to pay them all AND load them up with "foreign aid"

His tax plan is also great for the poor.

When did I give a threat of violence?

You're a berniefag. Socialist policies require forced participation. Answer the question

SeeIt isn't conspiracy theory it is conspiracy fact
Isis is to the middle East what the Contras were to Nicaragua.

Without us deliberately fostering them and taking out Gaddafi they would not exist in any meaningful way.
> is to continue air strikes and supporting proxy armies
>the best way to stop Isis is to keep supporting them
user Isis is a proxy army.
The air campaign that has been happening is a cover to bomb Syrian infrastructure which is why the west got so fucking pissy when Russia started to actually bomb these proxy forces (including isis) and started to roll them back in less than a month.
Hence propaganda like this

I realize that although I might be fine with increased taxes to assist people who are in more need than I am, I can understand why some people aren't alright with that.
What's your stance on either flat or progressive taxes?

What happens if you don't pay taxes?

>some people just donmt give a shit about themselves so why should I?
I could ask you the same thing..kek (drug addiction > thyroid problem)

>I want to help people, but I'm just seeing how it's not really possible without a complete change in fiscal policy.
There's the thing, if the government could help people - we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's not something up for debate, both conservatives and liberals have attempted to put measures in place (medicare, obamacare) to help their citizens.. only problem is the poor breeds poverty.

I agree that America removing itself from the middle east would be much more beneficial for trade ties and rebuilding the country. Commerce is much better than military intervention.

Going by New Zealand that's based on the Nordic model, it cost on average $16,500 ($11,000USD) to cover the cost of each citizen while they pay on average, $2,000 a year (due to the poor not having healthcare that makes it low). $11,000 x 300,000,000 = 3.3 trillion - what people pay in premiums. Considering US debt is at 18 trillion (roughly 50k - 60k per person), you would have bankrupted or destroyed the US dollar (and with it industry) before a berniecuck term would end. That's under the assumption that half of the bill would be footed by the top 10% as well.

acc.co.nz/about-acc/overview-of-acc/how-were-funded/index.htm

Yea I brought this up before and that's what libturds argued.

>bbut this government run healthcare would be good. I feel it

There already are government assisted college payments. That's why college costs so much in the first place.
Universal healthcare is a noble idea but we have fat americans and crack smoking niggers to take care of.

>I realize that although I might be fine with increased taxes to assist people who are in more need than I am
Why?

You realize that you cannot help by proxy, right?

My stance on taxes is to implement a subscription based model where tax payments are directly related to services used

>inb4 'what about the poor shitskins boo hoo'

I benefit greatly from living in a hegemony, but paying for your Dumbass ass and all the illegal spics to go.to school does me no good

You're on the right side, bernie is the only sane choice

Well, friends, I guess I'm voting for Trump then. I doubt Sandy is going to make it to election day, and I'd rather die than let that criminal bitch into office.
Thanks Sup Forums, you made me wuestion my own political views

I've been through the army medical machine.

0/10 would not even inflict on die hard anti-american cuckolds

youtube.com/watch?v=FvfHLr5aEqU

>No one posted Bill Whittle yet

>I might be fine with increased taxes to assist people who are in more need than I am
Or we could work to reduce the cost of healthcare instead of plundering the nation which only leads to more corruption of society.

We had a system that worked but Government ruined the medicalcare system in this nation in less than 40 years.
Reducing cost which make it so nearly everyone can pay for it both provides superior and more widespread care than government ran healthcare with the added benefit of not corrupting society by creating a tragedy of the Commons situation.

tomwoods.com/podcast/ep-481-how-capitalism-can-fix-health-care/

What I always find funny

>Holy shit if all these taxes weren't taken out of my paycheck, I could afford everything!

>I'm like totally okay with raising taxes to benefit people, I'm a totally free spirited lover maaaaaaaaan feel the burn

Jesus fucking Christ Tekawiti, you commie cucks need to purged.

Yeah sure universal HC works in small population countries like here in Costa Rica.... not. Come see for yourself.

Speaking of Costa Rica, why doesn't the US just abolish the military completely like CR did in 1948? Wouldn't that leave enough for free college for everyone?

Don't be such a dumbass.

You don't need a big military because you are not a rampaging war state like the US.

When did I say I wanted lower taxes on myself?
I completely understand why they exist.

Link related
All 18 articles are must read if you want the Federal government to take over all of our medicalcare but I think this one is particularly relevant

m.watchdog.org/?url=http://watchdog.org/146352/bernie-sanders-va-response/&utm_referrer=#2875

I doubt that

Not lower taxes on yourself retard, the principal that people who actually keep the money they earn can actually afford to do shit, if they think outside the "well I'll just let taxes take.care of.it"

Things like police property taxes make sense. Taking a major percentage from a workers check EVERY WEEK fucking sucks, and here people want to.increase that more.

>don't you feel bad for the shit heads who had 4 kids with 3 different men who.cant afford

No.i don't, let them to their fate.

>I doubt that
Too bad you are irrelevant and spend your days huffing petrol after you binge spend your centerlink bennies

Yeah man, just look how fluid and efficient the DMV and post office is. All those fuckers working at snails pace because they get the same check regardless of people they help

By that logical, also those who drink, those who eat fast food, those who live in a climate with pollution.
I mean fuck it, everyone who eats red meat knows that isn't not good for you, so fuck them too.
Basically if you're not vegan and straight edge you shouldn't get support cause you're knowingly damaging your body.

Somewhat relevant question.
What do you guys feel about government subsidized birth control?
It keeps "those damn niggermonkeys" and "the poorfags" from constantly spewing out children.

every time the american government gets involved with the cost of tuition, colleges just raise their tuition because the government will pay way more on student loans than any private company will

our deficit and budget information is puic knowledge. If I remember correctly, He right about military being 600 million (it's actually plus a little) and current healthcare costs are in the 1.4 trillion area yearly.
Even at that cost, it's still total shit, my health insurence went up again this year to 230$ bi weekly for my family and it doesn't cover shit.
Given that it's more or less my provider being shit, I thought this healthcare Obama wanted was supposed to make it cheaper and more affordable for everyone, not the opposite.
So why would more than doubling a already failed policy make it any better?
Anytime the government publicises anything it turns into a totally over bloated pile of dogshit, why would I trust them this time.

>But if we only had more money!

More? it's already our biggest expenditure and it's awful.

vegans also knowingly damage their body, as do all athletes and anyone working beyond the hours of 10-4

You do know we currently spend more on healthcare and education than the military right? It's not going to pay for it, especially with our ever increasing population, everyone's on drugs and people like Bernie want to import all the poor and sick into our country (to vote for him.) Even if you cut it entirely it wouldn't pay for everything, and the world would go into chaos.

Trump wants to cut the monopoly lines to try and force competition so that insurance companies may cut their prices. Just remember that insurance is expensive because pills cost a ton when insurance is brought into the equation.

It may work in your tiny Nordic country but they are no ways similar to us. Learn to read more stuff than labeling everything as Fox News and ebil Republican propaganda.

Quarter mile TSA lines will look like a cake walk.

>Universal healthcare

Serious question-with the high rates of obesity, drug and alcohol abuse, currently increasing lifespans, and unchecked illegal immigration do you REALLY think universal healthcare is smart?
I do. But not in this country's current state.

Gonna tell you about taxes real quick man.

Welfare doesnt work

My Dads fridge is empty. He is above the "poverty line". Bills and child support leave him with 30 a week to spend. Hes tried to quit smoking but cant afford the methods anymore.

Lower taxes would help him tremendously. He will never receive aid as the cash my Mom extorts from him doesnt count as an expense to the gov

Hed be better off laid off with side work and unemployment plus EBT. He would live better exploiting the system.

He works a job and side gigs to live in a one room apartment and train his better paid replacement just to buy loafs of bread with Goddamn pennies. Tax cuts will help but any tax increase will screw my Dad permanently. Trumps tax plan is the most solid to help us

I understand the opposition to universal healthcare in the USA, but our current system (post and pre-obamacare) isn't very efficient, affordable or just plain good. Even with insurance (which could cost over $800 a month for a family of three if their employer doesn't offer any), theres still lots of things that don't get covered like certain x-rays or emergency care. That $800 can turn into $1200 because a kid needed an x-ray on his arm or an emergency tooth removal when the dentist was about to close.

My dad had a few heart attacks and prostate cancer and insurance companies, especially the one his employer offered, wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole until Obamacare, in which they were finally reluctantly going to give him insurance for a shitload every month. He had a tear in his AC joint for like three years and he didn't have the $50,000 they wanted to fix it without insurance so he let it get worse and worse until he finally got on a program (the ONLY good thing obamacare did). My dad was never fat or abused his body, he just has shitty genes. He was punished for this in America.

So the current system isnt working, and I refuse to just let it continue pro-qou because you 20-something year olds are generally healthy, have rich families and never had to deal with the consequences of our shitty healthcare system. Is universal healthcare the fix? Probably not, but neither is a shitty capitalistic insurance system.

weird i have no insurance and my healthcare costs are in the vicinity of 500 a year, all dental

it's almost like shit gets cheaper when you aren't supporting a massive middleman

PS why is everyone else responsible for taking care of your shitty dad?

This is one of the biggest problems with progressive taxation. The poorer people always campaign to raise taxes on some mythical being responsible for all of the problems in their lives, also known as the "rich." Look at California and how they are trying to rob every successful person to pay for transgendered coupons while the sneaky Hollywood liberals stash their money in offshore investments to avoid the taxes they campaign for. The government is massively inefficient, if they say they need $10 they will take $1000, do good yourself instead of forcing the government to steal from productive people and keep the poor... poor. Finally, if you believe healthcare is corrupt, why subsidize corruption with the money of those evil rich people? Why not fix the problem at the source?

Flat tax is a dream tax since the goal for taxes is to have it be low and broad. I don't think it will ever happen though since government only gets bigger, so I like Trump''s plan which is actually vary popular with Liberals if you tell them it's Hillary/Bernie's plan. Make the exempt bracket higher and lower rates across the board in exchange for closing loopholes and and simplifying the code by removing most writeoffs.

>Barnie Sandlers

He would pay into it like everyone else. I am not opposed to insurance, just that they don't pander to shitty entitled kids like you in college with no health issues.

>He would pay into it like everyone else
then why can't he just directly pay for his own care?

>lower military spending to pay for education

not an unreasonable position at all. We could save another couple hundred billion a year and maintain our warfighting edge if we refocused on Russian-style strategic focus instead of BIG BAD WAR MACHINE READY TO FIGHT 5 FRONT WARS ALL OVER THE WORLD

Educationonal costs have quadrupled since 1980, and worst off, they hurt the poor and middle class the most with those student loans, since most families with a little wealth pay for their kids tuitions. So not only do the wealthier kids have better connections, education and job prospects inherently from their status in life, they also have little to no debt, i.e. they save thousands of dollars a year that average people have to pay for student loan payments each year.

We don't need to do anything too radical, I believe estimates are $100 billion a year to fund 80% of college educational costs at public universities.

Why though?

why don't those poor and middle class families get a job that doesn't require a $60k liberal arts degree? shouldn't they be smarter with their money? what would happen if they were that stupid with OUR (tax payers) money? that would be terrible.

Because he is paying a ridiculous amount more than everyone else you dip. He is paying insane amounts for himself AND putting money into welfare for people that don't contribute anything to it.

Because education is the most important thing for growth

>Because education is the most important thing for growth

source?

I'm not sure I get your point. Does it not make sense to pay for a service you use?

Are you trying to say that a traditional 4 year program is ideal for every single person in the USA?

Can you tell me why education fees have increased so much?

So everyone should get a STEM major? There shouldn't be any teachers, business majors, accountants, psychologists or anything not related to your precious engineering and computer sciences? Not every non-STEM degree is liberal arts.

I was talking about a trade school, dumbass.

To provide the education we need to compete in 21st century economy to people while ensuring young people are able to save money and start families. This is instant heroin to the economy. You are basically shifting the burden from the poorest people to the wealthiest without any major unfunded liability possibilities. It's a win-win.

When did I say he wouldn't pay?

It's not for everyone, no. Some people aren't really fot for college, but holding the people back that are ideal for college level jobs shouldn't be held back for financial reasons.
I think ot has to do with inflation but that's purely speculation on my part.

>the 21st century economy
retail and service sector drones don't need education

you went on a rant because your shit dad can't afford to care for himself. you literally want others to pay for him.

>holding the people back that are ideal for college level jobs shouldn't be held back for financial reasons.
that literally NEVER happens in the USA

>universal healthcare "works" in other places
>America is the most unhealthy, lard-chugging, fat ass, dick-chopping, motorized-cart-riding, sheboon nation in the world
>Putting that burden on everyone

We already have scholarships. You do well in high school, which is fucking easy because our schools suck, and then you go to college for cheap. Or just do a 2 year associates, work while doing so, and then get bachelors debt-free. If you can't find a decent job and budget your money for a couple years to save for a bachelor's degree, then you are a fucking idiot anyway and deserve to die in a gutter.

doesn't have to be 4-year, and as part of a "grand compromise" we could have national testing that essentially gives a person a voucher to pay for tuition at any university (public or private) for a fixed period of time (5 years?) but only for whatever skills you demonstrate in the testing. There could obviously be safety-valves or re-testing, but it would be a way to limit the cost of education while directing people to the school best suited for them.

>Are you trying to say that a traditional 4 year program is ideal for every single person in the USA?
I'd also add that even two additional years of education is associated in the scientific literature with far better outcomes in almost every area of life. Education encourages knowledge which leads to wisdom and right living. If you deny this basic fact you're denying the history of western civilization.

>we could have national testing that essentially gives a person a voucher to pay for tuition at any university (public or private) for a fixed period of time (5 years?) but only for whatever skills you demonstrate in the testing. There could obviously be safety-valves or re-testing, but it would be a way to limit the cost of education while directing people to the school best suited for them.

sounds pretty expensive. who is going to pay for this?

but we already do this
if you excel in high school and show promise you will get free education and even be courted by multiple universities

so what happens when everyone is educated but we still need burger flippers?

oh wait, we already know because that already happens.

education is not a panacea

>retail and service sector drones don't need education
If we want to not have that reality we are going to need the current levels of university enrollment indefinitely. Most of our productivity growth is still coming from those people, they have the highest IQs, they are the ones doing the most overall good for the economy and generating the ideas and technologies of the future.

Then high schools should emphasize trade schools instead of shoving college down our throats as the only possible way a person can be successful in life. When I went through high school there was never any mention of trade schools, just "you better go to college or you will be a poor fag working mcdonalds the rest of your life". They made it sound like trades like plumbing or carpentry were for scumbags that were basically too retarded to go to college. They sent the kids that sucked at normal high school to technical high schools to learn entry-level welding or auto repair as if they were rejects, when it actually helped them a shitload.

>We sort of destabilized the Middle East with our military, though, so ISIS is somewhat our fault.

No offense, I mean I sense you're here in good faith in a genuine effort to learn, but the above statement is utter fucking bullshit, fed to you at the slop-trough of the liberal, globalist agenda. The narrative you've been brainwashed to believe is that the West created the conflict in the Middle East and as such, we should accept responsibility for it by welcoming the tsunami of refugees we supposedly created.

Amazing how the liberal media and they're scores of globalist minions made you believe that bullshit, so much so that you come here and spout it as though it should be self-evident to all. Give me a fucking break.

As if conflict in the ME is SOMEHOW A NEW THING!!!!! Where's Carl when you need him?
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

Islam is a shit-tier ideology, that produces a shit-tier people, a worthless bankrupt culture, and third-world societies that savagely oppresses their entire female population, and has been actively trying to spread their poison throughout the world for - oh - about 12 FUCKING CENTURIES.

This latest "refugee crisis" is just the latest incarnation of that objective. And thanks to unimaginable traitors like Cameron and Merkel, it's going along swimmingly. Goddamn, liberals are the most gullible fuckers walking the face of the earth.

Yeah, the solution to this would be to emphasize trade school in high school in this specific situation, not give everybody free college.