Free trade is economically awesome. It does not cut jobs, it promotes jobs. Basically a free trade country allows importers to provide cheap products to America increasing the wealth of Americans.
Then the wall. As Milton Friedman has often said, the only type of migration that is beneficial to America, is illegal immigration. Because illegals do not have rights for social welfare and taxpayer funding like social security. So they just work for little money without taking anything out of the taxpayer funds system.
>friedman says illegal immigrants are beneficial >friedman
Asher Martinez
Its not about being against the free market. Its about doing business with foreign governments that practice extreme judiasm.
Mason Brown
It also makes nations reliant on whichever other nation has the cheapest labour, whose economy begins to grow. In some cases it forces nations to engage in the acceptance of slavery since the perrogative of a financial group is to maximize profit It makes it so these same groups have an open road to other unethical forms of maximizing profit, at the expense of state and people. And of course, eventually a free market will create a conglomerate of elitists who , having been able to expand their power ever more, control state and media and then the people, a slippery slope to more ways of maximizing profit, and a slow slide into plutocratic societies (Ring a bell?) Free market is the jews's wet drem, which is why there are so many in bilderberg for example. From that vantage point, they can manipulate the world, and knowing their past actions and current ideologies, its not for the best. (Again, ring a bell?) The international market should have a set of rules that maximizes the potential for profit while making it impossible for it to temper with state or people. When put in place (but sufficient space of course) the corporate is the third and final piece for the perfect trifecta of state, people and economy, that should interconnect and intercommunicate but never mutate each other.
Logan Carter
>TPP >has anything to do with trade
fucking idiot.
Joseph Young
Friedman also said that welfare is cancer so that's it.
Justin Butler
Because other countries abuse the system and its not free trading at all. They do not float their currencies and they put taxes on shit anyway. Not a free market, period.
Isaac Nelson
ever heard of sanctuary cities dipshit? the whole concept of them is to give illegals some form of benefits.
also, legislation like the dream act only furthers the desire for illegals to come to this country, further fucking over natives or legal immigrants like myself. I also hate h1b1 immigration, shits cuts into my job opportunities, I hope trump eventually sees that it is bad for American workers and cuts it back.
Carson Robinson
>Free trade is economically awesome. The "free trade deals" aren't free trade though.
Gabriel Jenkins
>In some cases it forces nations to engage in the acceptance of slavery since the perrogative of a financial group is to maximize profit
Most trade America does is with countries which have no slavery.
>And of course, eventually a free market will create a conglomerate of elitists who >, having been able to expand their power ever more, control state and media and then the people Has never happened before, why should it ever happen?
>Free market is the jews's wet drem, which is why there are so many in bilderberg for example. Ad hominem. Israel is actually a completely anti-free trade socialist hellhole. Free market has nothing to do with Jews, and everything with economics.
>The international market should have a set of rules that maximizes the potential for profit while making it impossible for it to temper with state or people. Those are called free trade rules of the WTO.
Luis Clark
>Friedman also said that welfare is cancer so that's it. Welfare IS cancer.
>They do not float their currencies and they put taxes on shit anyway. Not a free market, period. So you do not understand how trade and floating currencies work, do you? If a country tries to manipulate its currency to export more cheaply, what happens is that they get dollars when selling their products... what do they do with dollars they get? If they want to convert them into their own currency, that currency will appreciate vs. the dollar. If they do not, the dollar is just sitting there doing nothing. If they use those dollars to invest in America, what they are actually doing is creating jobs in America!
Colton Young
>Has never happened before, why should it ever happen?
Get off Sup Forums Merkel
Nathan Kelly
>Has never happened before, why should it ever happen?
you are delusional.
this whole thread has to be bait.
James Morris
>the whole concept of them is to give illegals some form of benefits. >some form not any federal welfare and big ticket payments. Completely irrelevant.
>legislation like the dream act only furthers the desire for illegals to come to this country, further fucking over natives or legal immigrants like myself. How? Again, illegal immigrants do work for low wages and add to society without taking anything out of it. This is basically like someone who comes to your party uninvited to make you food and clean up afterwards and the only thing he or she wants is to dance for 30 min.
Owen Smith
>How? Again, illegal immigrants do work for low wages and add to society without taking anything out of it. This is basically like someone who comes to your party uninvited to make you food and clean up afterwards and the only thing he or she wants is to dance for 30 min. >he thinks illegals don't get welfare benefits
Christian Brown
Name a globalist entity which controls the state and media.
Austin Price
>Free trade doesnt cut jobs So there is no scarcity when it comes to jobs? Yet their is scarcity for every other economic variable?
Are there no costs associated with looking for a new job? Unemployment, or retraining for a new job?
The difference in the cost of living in 3rd world countries and America essentially always give the 3rd world countries a comparative advantage when it comes to providing labor. A country can also manipulate its currency so that its essentially always cheaper to outsource labor.
For such an outspoken "free market" capitalist, Friedman sure does seem to like allowing foreign governments to dictate the rules and pick winners and losers. Basically all free trade does it allow China to pick winners and losers instead of allowing the US government to pick winners and losers. The current free trade/free market system is not in any way a free market, and different nations are competing under completely different rule sets, and are essentially allowed to dictate the rules and pick winners and losers, which kikeman frequently whines about in his writings about the US Government.
Jeremiah Torres
Trump is a faux populist. He only says stuff that appeals to the dumbest of dumb voters. He literally said yesterday we should "print more money" to solve all of our problems. He's economically illiterate dangerous retard.
Aiden Barnes
>>he thinks illegals don't get welfare benefits They do not get Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP or social security which make up 90% of welfare benefits.
Nathan Thompson
> increasing the wealth of Americans. > So they just work for little money without taking anything out of the taxpayer funds system.
Tyler Johnson
Wrong.
Camden Baker
>So there is no scarcity when it comes to jobs? No, you know why? Because otherwise a country with 10 million people should have the same number of jobs as a country with 100 million people. Unemployment is a structural problem, not a problem of scarcity.
>Yet their is scarcity for every other economic variable? No, economic variables are rarely constrained by scarcity. For instance there is no scarcity when looking at GDP growth or inflation or trade deficits or budget surpluses or HDI etc. Not sure what the fuck you are talking about.
>Are there no costs associated with looking for a new job? Unemployment, or retraining for a new job? There is, but we do not pay for illegal aliens' search for a new job... precisely because they are illegal.
Jose Powell
>muh liberturdian kool-aid
Literally nobody cares what you think, fuck off back to your autism echo chamber on r/ancap
Ilegals do receive social welfare and taxpayers do fund their shitty lives, fuck they probably are even allowed to vote because it's free votes for democucks
Just end yourself, Sup Forums grew out of their libertarian teenage phase years ago
Noah Diaz
Isn't Clinton for TPP? I never knew trump was against it. Holy shit if it comes down to Clinton vs Trump (which it will) instead of not voting I might just vote Trump.
Nathan Edwards
The TPP is the most evil document ever drafted. If it actually was a free trade doc then fine but its not so fuck you german ahkmed. You got the first taste of free trade on muslim refugees, hows that working out for you? Fikki Fikki
>hollowing out our countries communities is worth giving international conglomerates, who have no loyalty or interest in the long term prosperity of the state, more shekels forgive me if i'm not exactly thrilled at the (((opportunity)))
Hudson Price
>Holy shit if it comes down to Clinton vs Trump (which it will) instead of not voting I might just vote Trump.
Why? Do you want more joblessness and less prosperity because of fewer trade?
>You got the first taste of free trade on muslim refugees, hows that working out for you? The problem with our Muslim migrants isn't that they are coming, the problem is that we have A. welfare which we pay to them and to German welfare queens, which is the biggest mistake ever and B. lax criminal laws for criminal migrants.
But if we had no welfare for them and tough criminal laws and free labor laws, those migrants would be good for the economy, becuase we could pay them 1 Euro per hour and use their labor to get more competitive products.
Juan Ramirez
The tpp does not help out the American worker. It just outsources their jobs, fucks the internet up, and raises corporations to the literal power level of every government on this planet.
Jonathan Brooks
>pretending TPP is a good thing
Jaxon Lopez
What do highly regulated trade agreements that violate national sovereignty have to do with free markets? Why are you using words without knowing what they mean?
Leo Cook
>It just outsources their jobs It only outsources jobs which are not competitive to foreign country companies. Those jobs are inefficient. It is more efficient to import goods from abroad if they can be produced there cheaper.
Americans can then do other jobs and be wealthier.
Jaxon Hall
Free trade within a country is good. Global free trade is bad.
Landon Rodriguez
>What do highly regulated trade agreements that violate national sovereignty have to do with free markets?
Why don't you actually read up a bit on TTP. It essentially reduces tariffs and non-tariff barriers. That is ALL it does.
>Free trade within a country is good. Yes. >Global free trade is bad. Why should that be? So you are saying that a T-shirt which can be made for 70 cents in India should actually be produced for 5 dollars in America? Why? This will increase the price for products. Why would that make any sense?
Justin Parker
THATS STILL NOT A FREE MARKET
Aaron Cooper
Free trade is fucking retarded.
Jose Sullivan
He reminds me of late 19th and early 20th century American politician (of both parties). Protectionists. Only based Grover Cleveland was against it.
Aaron Fisher
Friedman also said that you can't have free immigration and welfare state at the same time, what now communist?
Jordan Nguyen
Illegal immigrants put an enormous strain on the taxpayer. They're benefiting from an infrastructure and public systems they pay nothing towards maintaining. They also create severe pressure on salaries and invite labor exploitation of the domestic worker. That's just disregarding other factors like crime and social unrest that kills off local property value and purchasing power.
Robert Lopez
so you went from saying they don't take any, now you admit they take out of the 10%
correcting the record I see
Ethan Perry
haha yeah lolbertarians are so dumb
also we should give up our guns
Angel Ross
>As Milton Friedman has often said, Heh heh heh, stupid goyim.
Easton Powell
india does not have a free market
Dominic Turner
I did "read up" on it. I suggest you do to. It is the most tightly regulated and unfree market system to date. It goes as far as giving US corporations power over regional internet laws.
Wyatt Morris
>TPP >free market >illegals coming to murrika to work >rather than to get anchor babies and live off of welfare wew lad
Asher Foster
The Clinton Foundation.
Owen Myers
the post that destroyed OP
Carson Smith
In theory it's good, but it fucked us hard here. Jobs move from here, to the US, then down to Mexico.
Why pay workers here $35 per hour when you can pay them $16 per hour for the same job in the US?
Isaac Gutierrez
This. both are shit possitions alone but they are at least defensible. But put open boarders and welfare together and you have gone full retard. Thats like trying to heat the world by turning on you heater and opening your windows in the middle of winter.
Jack Young
Free trade would be great if countries like China didn't exist. If every country involved in these agreements treated their workers like humans and paid more than 10 cents an hour, then no problemos. Except that doesn't happen, so you have people there making products for dirt cheap, exporting and undercutting American made products thus hurting lower/middle class American jobs, to send money out of the country to government run companies in Ching Chong land.
Alexander Foster
>TPP >free market Get the fuck out of here
Logan Hall
It's not "good" in theory either. There is a reason "illegal" means against the law.
Juan Morales
>Protectionnism is bad, open your borders and let the scums of the earth enter in your country either leeching warfare and raising insecurity or dumping salaries to shit. Everything while your middle class is declining and quality of life is sinking while the top of the upper class becomes richer and richer.
Sure mate, go die in hell.
Anthony Thomas
>Friedman also said that you can't have free immigration and welfare state at the same time, what now communist? Yes, that is what I am saying. The welfare state cannot be there for the illegal immigrants. They can only work, but not get benefits.
Nathaniel Gonzalez
Free Market is a meme spread to essentially mean Jewish financial buttrape free-for-all
You may as well legalize taking debts in the form of a pound of flesh.
Julian Barnes
>so you went from saying they don't take any, now you admit they take out of the 10% No, I just pointed out they do not get 90% of the welfare. I do not know if they get food stamps etc. I assume not.
Ian Reed
yes but when these illegal immigrants have children on american soil the child is automatically elligible for american citizenship and so welfare
very short term thinking
Nicholas Price
Literally the EU
Jason Wilson
>Free trade requires corporations to be able to sue governments for lost profits
Michael Evans
>Why should that be? Because other countries do not also believe in a free market philosophy, namely our biggest trading partner, China. It's like saying a free market exists when there are two companies, but one has the vast majority of market share because of collusion with the State, and the other company is observing "free trade", only on a macro scale.
Jeremiah Fisher
>The Clinton Foundation. You are kidding? The Clinton Foundation isn't running anything.
William Howard
Fun fact, Kraut: the way to stop illegals from gaining those is literally a form that says "are you an illegal immigrant, yes or no?"
If they check 'NO', they get all those things. Very little else is necessary. If they need a social security number, they can get one for about $50.
Jayden Johnson
>free trade AND globalization Yes! Lots of gains to be made for those on the bottom (i.e. everyone besides America)
>work without taking anything out
Except for their >hospital visits >school for their """legal"""" kids >welfare for their """legal"""" kids >taking jobs >driving down wages >driving up crime
Julian Rivera
Not to mention the tariffs on our exports and the intentional devaluation of their currency.
Asher Phillips
Even in the shortest term, it is not beneficial. You and OP must hail from the Bernie Sanders school of economics that genuinely believes infrastructure grows on trees.
Joseph Stewart
Because Republicans have been redpilled that capitalism is shit. We need national socialism.
Bentley Smith
>Free trade is economically awesome. It does not cut jobs, it promotes jobs. Basically a free trade country allows importers to provide cheap products to America increasing the wealth of Americans.
Austin Young
If you control the media and entertainment you control the politic majority, today western leaders are globalist puppets.
Benjamin Ward
Your biggest trade partner is Canada.
Cameron Davis
Scarcity is only set by productivity. There is not scarcity for all economic variables.
The biggest issue with free trade are short-term adjustment costs. However, there is also a trade-off, as some particular loses big in a country (and that's why they have so much political say) but, overall, consumers gain ever more.
Oliver Jackson
Because it's not fair to compete against companies that use literal slave labor.
Dominic Smith
>TPP >free market Shiggy
Leo Diaz
>he way to stop illegals from gaining those is literally a form that says "are you an illegal immigrant, yes or no?"
Not correct. You need a social security number and have to check out as not being an illegal to get social security or Medicare or Medicaid. I have lived in the US and unless I had a permanent resident visa / later on US citizenship, I would not be eligible for any of these programs
Matthew Reyes
its a saturday and you are in sunny portugal. go get wasted on the beach.
Gabriel Smith
Shills have been increasingly using the poorly informed in such a way that they present a blatant lie and then force their audience argue against a made up premise.
John Ross
We have lost a gigantic portion of our manufacturing jobs in America, and the economic resources still haven't totally reallocated to other industries as theorized by free-traders. We are competing against countries that use slave-like wages, tariffs on US goods, and currency manipulation. There is no level playing field here.
Sure, we have cheaper products, but at what cost?
Also, Illegals can get shit from the government, especially if they pop out a Kid.
Charles Baker
Yet you also claim people do not trust the media. In fact, you see the media saying people do not trust them lol
Anthony Thomas
White Europeans don't have the access to funding that advocate interest groups provide for Mexicans in the US. Also, the US does provide emergency service for the homeless, which is something illegals take advantage of instead of getting treatment in their country.
Cooper Jones
Friedman was right in that illegals are preferable to legals but when illegal immigrants ARE given federal benefits, are not working "jobs nobody else wants to", and number in the tens of millions, then it's no longer feasible to have completely unmitigated immigration. Further, Friedman ignores the security concernss of illegal immigration, which far outweighs any economic benefits that may have occurred.
As for free trade, there's no such thing as a free trade agreement that's tens of thousands of pages. As good as the free market is, to compete with countries like China where workers have slave-like conditions would require American workers to work under similar conditions,. America's greatest advantage is that we have the world's most desired market of 300 million materialist plebs willing to buy anything for any price, and elevating that consumer-base out of the hands of those whom we can't compete with seems at this point to be the best strategy.
Isaiah Gonzalez
It has been raining a lot in Portugal this past week. Today, a mall in Lisbon was flooded lol
Jackson Bennett
Excellent job not reading the second line of my post, cabbage-breath.
Ask any doctor in California, when you start your residency you learn this word, "Empujar".
You will be telling that to mexican women between the ages of 14 and 40 many dozens of times a day, as they squeeze a brand new american citizen out of their big bell beefer between their legs. Oh, and they walk out with three new Social Security numbers too; one for mama, one for "papa", and one for little mijo. It's a good thing liberals fill those places with social workers so they don't even have to leave the building to get their medicare, medicaid, SNAP, EIC, CHIP, and anything else they need.
Kevin Jackson
the EU
Brandon Sanders
>Because it's not fair to compete against companies that use literal slave labor.
This is a BS liberal communist argument. Chinese aren't slave labor, Vietnamese aren't, Indians aren't, Polish aren't, Romanians aren't, Brazilians aren't, Japanese and Germany aren't.
What slave labor? Slave labor doesn't produce iPhones or IKEA furniture or cars or laptops or ships or lithium etc.
Tyler Adams
Sorry, what would be our biggest trade partner if not for their unfair practices.
They're jewing us. The total trade isn't much lower considering the trade deficit.
Luis Peterson
Mexicans receive every benefit offered inaAmerica. If you love Mexicans and muslim leaches so much then save their life by getting them out before whitey goes ham and kills every fucking one.
Nathan Myers
This is great for corporations and shit for the American workforce in general. GDP up but the average income goes down. Economy might look great but the American worker just gets fucked by it.
Ayden Bailey
So does this mean you would advocate for the minimum wage to be lowered to one of those country's levels? Because I know in Mexico it's something like $50 a week. Perhaps that contributes to why those countries with near-zero minimum wage are awful pieces of shit?
Well said... sort of. >tfw you were born just in time to experience a global racewar
Jonathan Butler
>secretive government intervention is free market
>shills who keep blaming the "free market" have been talking about secretive government intervention since the very start
Christian Robinson
Birth right citizenship is a uniquely American problem. You can easily change it. It is not in the constitution that illegal immigrants need to get citizenship kids. The 14th amendment just says "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
If illegal parents aren't officiall residing in America and are definitely not subject to the jurisdiction of the USA, then why should their kids be Americans?
Owen Stewart
>Why is Trump and why are Trump supporters so anti free market? We're not.
We think the best way forward is a temporary step back. Educate the masses on Pandora's box - let it rip.
Mason White
> Germany trying to enlighten us on immigration
Michael Morgan
they don't own the media nor the state though
Elijah Cox
Free trade promotes jobs alright, in third world, cheap labor locations.
Juan Reed
>So does this mean you would advocate for the minimum wage to be lowered to one of those country's levels? Because I know in Mexico it's something like $50 a week. Perhaps that contributes to why those countries with near-zero minimum wage are awful pieces of shit?
The minimum wage is idiotic. Germany didn't have a minimum wage since last year. Now there is a 8.50 Euro minimum wage and that will fuck up Germany in the next recession.
Austria still has no minimum wage and isn't dirt poor.
Forget minimum wage, let the employers and employees negotiate wages. As long as there is no welfare, employers and employees will agree on wages which allow employees to survive.
Carson Jenkins
>Has made billions of dollars by making good deals >Points out that a bad trade deal is being made >Somehow makes him completely against free trade Think about how stupid you sound, OP.
Jonathan Butler
Illegal Immigrants DO get welfare and free hospitable (because they just don't pay the bill). It's just they first need to have a kid here first (anchor baby) Milton was just making a point
Tyler Bailey
>raises corporations to the literal power level of every government on this planet. This.
They are moving in for the kill as we speak too.
Juan Bell
Because they have different currencies, different purchasing parities, different cultures.