Who is more responsible for the success?

Who is more responsible for the success?

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Bill. Is that even a fucking question?
Greatest coach of all time.

exactly

Brady is the GOAT
Belimeme is a QB babby

Bill is.
By far.

Half the super bowl wins Brady played mediocre.

if you asked me for one season, give me prime brady

for 15 years to build a culture, give me bellichick.

eventually he'd find another qb, not as good as brady but one he could win with

Tonight it was clearly Brady. Save for the pick 6 (which was really bad) he was firing on all cylinders while the Pats D sucked.

Theres better QBs playing today and in the past. Brady himself has admitted this several times and personally credits his defense and coach with the success.

Bill is the undesputed GOAT.

Bill by far.

Brady played a good second half but even then wasnt the best player on the pats. Plus that first half... he was pretty bad.

Still a great QB, but Bill is easily the greatest.

pats d was great in the second half getting sack after sack and stopping the falcons after the failed onside kick AND getting them out of fg range to make it 31-20

>backup QB gets traded around, gets 6 rings having never touched the ball
This is Sup Forums logic and it just shows how many casuals are here.

Beady is a ohenominal athelete and player, but he's even said he knows he's not the greatest.

Bill on the other hand has done the unthinkable.
I recently watched the original 3 pats wins the other day and was surprised at how non-Brady oriented the wins were. All defensive.

Brady is in discussion for the GOAT.
Bill is undesputably the GOAT.

The system babby meme is just that... a meme.

Beady is an amazing QB. He's not the greatest, but the idea that Bill could do this well with anyone else is laughable. There are a few better QBs with less rings, but there will NEVER be a better coach than Bill.

It's Belichick, no doubt
Almost made the playoffs with MATT CASSEL for fuck's sake

The falcon defense

Bill is Dark Lord of the Sith

It isn't even a question.

>almost
>11-5

find me another team in recent memory that missed playoffs with that record

There's been better QBs as far as talent goes, but if success is the netric, he's the best. By far.

Bill is the best in both regards.

The refs

With a team that went literally perfect the year prior.

Belichick doesn't win a game like this with any QB not named Brady

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>With a team that went literally perfect the year prior.
>Belichick doesn't win a game like this with any QB not named Brady
Stats say otherwise

Oh, Canada.

It's hard to nail down when Brady's prime is though. I'd argue he's played his best football in the last 5-6 years.

Do you really need to ask? Bill pulled it through even AFTER Brady did everything he could to fuck it up.

The absolite worst people on this joard are people who credit the success of a team based on the QB. I'm not trying to slight Brady, but this is a team sport through and through.

Bill B is a mastermind.

There are more talented QBs than Brady. That is undisputable. But literally who the fuck else could have pulled off what he did today.

>There are more talented QBs than Brady. That is undisputable. But literally who the fuck else could have pulled off what he did today.
Matt Ryan played a better game than Brady did.

Belichick won a SB down 25 points with a QB not named Tom Brady? Could you point me in the direction of some sauce, my good man?

Dante Scarnecchia desu

Derek Carr

>Belichick won a SB down 25 points with a QB not named Tom Brady? Could you point me in the direction of some sauce, my good man?
Brady is the reason they were down 25 in the first place.

no he didn't. Brady threw for 466 yards

I thought that was due to their defence deciding to play like absolute shit for 2 quarters.

Just compare what they did without each other.

Belichick pretty much won a Super Bowl by himself as defensive coordinator for the Giants.

Brady couldn't even earn the starting job at Michigan.

They're the perfect fusion of QB and Coach. It's a symbiotic relationship

This.

I wish this meme debate would stop. They are both GOATs who have come together to transcend.

The pick 6 certainly didn't help, but the Blount fumble and all the dropped passes add up to even more imo

He also threw a nasty pick and had some miserable throws.

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There are and have been more talented QBs.
But there will never be a more successful QB.

Success > Talent.

Bill is the best at both.

he also lead a 91 yard drive to tie the fucking game

It's really hard to separate them, honestly.

Brady doesn't thrive in a non-Belichick system. The Belichick system doesn't work without Brady.

Brady is the most famous, accomplished played on that team. And he falls in line, does his job, and always puts the team first. The rank and file see that, and they know the system is legit. This lets the Belichick system thrive.

Who is more responsible for the overall success of the Pats? Belichick.

Who is more responsible for Superb Owl wins? Brady.

>he also lead a 91 yard drive to tie the fucking game
He was part of a drive you mean. He wasn't throwing to himself, user.

>The Belichick system doesn't work without Brady.
Except we know this is false already.

Thats literally false. We have seen other QBs thrive under Bill.

Brady is one of the greatest QBs of all time and might be the best, but it's not undisputed.

Bill however is by all accounts the best.

belicheck system

>this utter meaningless gibberish

"the system doesn't work without this player b-but he's still a systembabby!!!11!"

>Brady doesn't thrive in a non-Belichick system
How do you know? The only non-Belichick system he played in was in college, and he was really good then as well.

Without Brady they still win the owls in 2002, 2004, and 2015, but not the other two.

It's mostly Bill, but stop discounting Brady as a meme QB. He's one of the greatest.

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strawpoll.me/12280266
strawpoll.me/12280266

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>lead

yes, he lead it. I know he wasn't throwing to himself, obviously

>was really good
>backed up Drew Henson

Neither wins more than 2 rings alone.

Literally impossible to know. Where is the beginning of a circle. They are completely linked to each other.

>His record as a starter was 20 & 5. He finished his career in the Michigan record books with 443 completions on 711 attempts for 5351 yards, 35 touchdowns and 19 interceptions

Imagine if he did though. He'd have to be The Flash.

You're not getting my main point, EVERYONE on that team drinks the kool-aid because Brady does. It makes it possible for the backups to do well. That's what I mean by the system not working without Brady.

>tfw 4th down and 32 yards

Belichick head coaching record before Brady: 51-65.

It's really simple: you're starting a new team. Do you take 24 year old Tom Brady as QB and an average coach or 45 year old Bill Belichick and an average QB.

If you don't take Brady you're a literal retard. QB has more effect on the team, period.

But I didn't call him a system baby?

I'm making the SUPER controversial claim that they compliment each other and each need each other.

The nfls chicken or the egg question

Yeah, playoffs are a crapshoot. He won three SBs in four years before he was even that good.

>vs Rasm
Almost Completely Bill and the defense. Would still win without Tom

>vs Panthers
Mostly Bill and the defense. Great final drive by Tom, but had some lousy pass attempts.
Would still win without Tom.

>vs Iggles
Great game on both sides of the ball.
If you replace Tom with another random QB, they probably lose, but he wasn't THE best QB that year either.

>vs Seahawks
Tom played a terrible first 3 quarters and then had a phenominal 4th quarter. Even then it was the D that won the game at the end. I don't think many other QB's could have done that in the 4th quarter but a lot of others wouldn't have played that badly in the 4th.
They could have won without Tom.

>vs Failcons
This was Tom's best owl.
The first 3 quarters was all on Eddleman choking and the falcons D coming to play. They would not have won without Tom.

So in my opinion they still win 4 of 5 without him. 3 of those are not up for argument. If you don't believe me, go watch them.

You in that post:

>Brady doesn't thrive in a non-Belichick system.

This

Essentially this.

both

There's a lot of room between "not thriving" and "system baby"

Not when you're talking about a dude who is the measuring stick for being the GOAT at his sport.

You're basically saying he'd be replacement level. That sounds like systembabby to me.

Tom Brady is, hands down, the single most consistant Quarterback of all time. No arguments, that's a fact.

He has consistantly played at a power level of 80-90 out of 100, throughout his career.
There have been some QBs that have played better at any individual time. For example, Rodgers and Ryan this year both were playing at the high 90's, but they won't play that well every year (Ryan last year was about a 60 on this scale)

So yes, there have been QBs that have had better seasons than Brady has ever had, but if we are looking at a career, nobody is better.

Yeah, they don't need him to win all those owls, but that's not the issue. He's the best because of his consistancy.

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Brady is a great QB.
More news at 11.

youtube.com/watch?v=GC4qgrUgF9I

what other QB do you think could lead this drive Mr. Reddit?

they need each other.

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Oh yes that's right. I forgot about all those other QB's that Bill won superbowls with.

>>vs Seahawks
>Tom played a terrible first 3 quarters and then had a phenominal 4th quarter. Even then it was the D that won the game at the end. I don't think many other QB's could have done that in the 4th quarter but a lot of others wouldn't have played that badly in the 4th.
>They could have won without Tom.

Glad to see someone is glossing over the fact that the Seahawks had the best defense in football, like Brady was just having a mediocre game for no reason. He lead them back from 10 points down, against a defense that had absolutely and utterly humiliated Peyton Manning just a year prior. Don't act like you could have just put anyone in there and gotten the same results.

What about that season Belichick turned Matt Castle into a playoff contender? A 11-5 team would have went to the playoffs in any season other than 2008

you mean that season when they played the easiest schedule in the league with the same team that won 18 games with the year before

They are the Lennon and McCartney of sports.

Dark lord Belichick. Rename that fucking trophy.

They both are. With the other, each of them would be complete shit.

>would've still won in 2015

You're fucking retarded user. Brady was fucking lights out in the fourth quarter of that game, he was unstoppable.

>comparing the 2015 seahawks to the 2016 seahawks
>same team

Nigga you high as fuck.
Brady threw 2 ugly picks and led the team back from a 10 point deficit which was more Gronk than Brady.
Even then, the seahawks were going to win but the DEFENSE stopped him

He threw 2 gross pics and couldnt get a game together until the last 15 minutes

Raider fan

I say Bill. That system is masterful

This game prove that Brady is the goat tho

Bill.

QB is nothing without good receviers, blocking and play-calling. However, if my receviers would be open the entire game, even I would be able to pass the fucking ball.

I am not denying that Brady is a very good QB, but his 5 rings come from the fact, that Patriots are a great organisation.

And he led two touchdown drives in the fourth quarter against the best defence.