THE-CRE-A-TOR-HAS-A-MAS-TER-PLAN

THE-CRE-A-TOR-HAS-A-MAS-TER-PLAN

PEACE AND HAPPI-NESS THRU EVE-RY MANNNN

*transcendental yodeling*

*crescendos beautifully*

>maybe if I put a bunch of hippy bullshit lyrics in my music nobody will notice that it's only two chords and that I suck at saxophone

>muh chords
nice try, scruffy.

>suck at saxophone
Sucks enough for Coltrane to put him in his sextet for Ascension and Meditations am I right?

lmao get this nigga out of here he can't handle the experience

and how many chords does 'so what' have? dipshit, chords don't matter.

Coltrane was a great player but had questionable taste at times. especially towards the end.

The difference is that So What only goes on for 9 minutes instead of 35 and has players who are actually good at their instruments

To suck off every boy and every man

We call it "speaking in tongues"

not true, albums such as Om were him at his fucking peak. And it's not "towards the end". Are you saying Meditations (not towards the end) and Ascension are bad albums?

The time doesn't matter, what matters is how gripping and innovative it is. It *can* go on for that long, because unless you have ADHD you can get into it for that length of time. There is something fresh every minute. It's also hypnotic, much more hypnotic than So What, so the time literally flies by. Listening to So What feels longer to me than listening to this.

They are all good at their instruments, you're kind of a faggot evidently since you can't even explain what makes him bad at the instrument.

Are you the guy who comes into every Karma thread and talks about things not being harmonically interesting (AKA muh chords, because you don't understand that music is much more than just chords)?

>Are you saying Meditations (not towards the end) and Ascension are bad albums?
No. I'm saying they would have been BETTER albums without Pharoah Sanders. Meditations anyway, Sanders is fairly irrelevant on Ascension anyway.

>what matters is how gripping and innovative it is
>gripping
completely subjective, therefor irrelevant

>innovative
tell me what's innovative about Karma please

Meditations is on par with A Love Supreme so you're really talking out of your ass - Alice Coltrane's Journey in Satchidananda is made by Pharoah's playing. Ornette Coleman thought he was the best Tenor player ever. I'll take their word over yours

>hypnotic
lol you're not even listening to the music are you?

>tfw Pharoah is your favorite jazz musician of all time but everyone only shills Karma
HE MADE OTHER ALBUMS

>subjective = irrelevant
It's not subjective. There are techniques aside from chords one can apply. Do you even know what a melody is? Do you know what 'layered instrumentation' means? Clearly not.

The album employs non-western musical traditions, so of course the 'chords' aren't going to be a priority dipshit. There's an intense rhythmic focus, dissonant improvisation which is intended to lead to an 'ecstatic' state in the listener, the exotic instrumentation, transcendent vocals, adding a symphonic vibe that's not common in jazz except in albums such as Black Saint (I hope you've heard of that, you seem like a pleb). It pretty much carried the torch for the 'spiritual jazz' movement which is recognized by actual scholars as an actual movement, so please, for the love of Karma, stop whining about your uninformed opinions on the internet.

>They would have been better without Sanders

Please, tell me how 'Meditations' would have been anything similar to what it was without Sanders.

Coltrane, Ayler, Coleman all thought he was one of the best players of all time. But please, tell us how you know much more than them.

As much as you complain about the music not being 'harmonically interesting like Monk', Monk literally is playing mostly modernist melodies with traditional chording. But you wouldn't DARE call him not innovative because of that chording. Proving ur a pleb

This. What's your favourite user?

this.

Ornette Coleman asked a doctor to surgically remove his penis. You should look into getting it done yourself since apparently you will except anything he said rather then apply any critical thought of your own.

>Ornette once did something stupid completely unrelated to jazz so how could he understand jazz after making so many amazing albums?!

How does this have anything to do with his genius opinions on jazz you silly fruit?

still waiting for you to explain how Pharoah is a bad player other than "muh chords" =)

have you even listened to the album lol

Village of the Pharoahs is the first I heard and the album that got me into jazz and its probably still my favorite. I own like 11 of his records and don't think i can order them more than that. It's all so different but similar and covered in berserk beauty

>ecstatic
>exotic
>transcendent
Did you take the Fantano music criticism
course. You're doing nothing but describing the music with mostly subjective adjectives

I have not said a single thing about Monk and have no idea what you're talking about

Nothing to do with it - one of the best saxophonists of all time has an opinion you should take seriously

nice, that's a good one. My favourite is probably Thembi, but I'm also a big on pretty much all the rest of them, other top ones for me are Love in us All, Journey to the One, Heart is a Melody, and Karma.

You and I both know Fantano doesn't listen to jazz. Fuck off, since you're incapable of actually discussing music.

Thembi is great. Same with the others you mentioned. I love when he tackles huge pieces like Black Unity too. Also Live at the East's Healing Song >>>> all

I prefer to make up my own mind. Plenty of great jazz musicians often have completely idiotic opinions. Just look up Miles Davis' comments about Eric Dolphy. Or for that matter, look up Mingus' comments on Ornette Coleman. At some point you're going to have to think for yourself a little bit.

>You and I both know Fantano doesn't listen to jazz.
It must be embarrassing then for you to realize that your level of music discussion is as basic and limited as his.

>Ornette Coleman asked a doctor to surgically remove his penis

source?

We get it user, you don't like crazy atonal shit

TL;DR pleb user doesn't like free jazz and makes it everyone else's problem

>"B-But it's long!"

Still higher than yours apparently ;)

I happen to love free jazz. But there's good free jazz and bad free jazz and if you don't understand that then you should really do some reflection and ask yourself whether you actually like free jazz or whether you just WANT to like free jazz.

Please name good free jazz

And please don't go to a stereotype like Cecil Taylor or mid 70s ECM

there's good free jazz and bad free jazz. And I bet you like Cecil Taylor and other meme shit

You're not allowed to have Ayler, since he liked Sanders =)

>Don't go to the legitimately good free jazz or I'll be out of a counter!
Also Interstellar Space is pretty monumental - or something like World Galaxy if that counts

My criticism was not just of the length, but of the length coupled with a lack of any musical development beyond The absolute most basic ways of developing- volume and busyness.

I'm not even trying to counter but if you're dickriding Taylor like he's what free jazz has to sound like, that's pretty lame

I mean if you wanna just stick to Alexander Schlippenbach, go for it, but i like some variance in my free jazz artists' ideas

You should look up "what is a melody" on google. The album is full of counterpoint, well-placed dissonance, periods of total free jazz, crescendos with excellent build up, the instrumentation and vocals are silky and luxurious.

>muh volume

No user, that's called crescendo. Learn some basic music theory.

>muh business

no user, that's called layered instrumentation. Look up some basic music theory PLEASE JUST FUCK OFF

Cecil Taylor has some incredible albums but also some that are almost completely ruined by his poor taste in drummers.

Ayler also has some good records but the success of his music is typically pretty dependent on who he is playing with.

I couldn't care less what their opinions on Sanders are. I like to judge the music on its own merits. It seems like that's the main difference between you and I. As far as I can tell you seem to be basing your judgement on literally everything BUT the actual music.

I'm not at all I'm saying his free jazz is legitimately brilliant so saying he's cliche or whatever as an excuse is daft

"Crescendo" and "layered instrumentation" are not music theory. That's just basic music terminology.

But now you got me curious how much theory YOU know since you seem to think it's so important. What would a iii VI ii V I progression in Eb be in chord symbol notation?

subjective, try actually discussing it in theory like I did Sanders. Come on.

He is brilliant in an entirely different manner than Pharoah. If you just don't like Black Unity or all the unique instrumentation that goes into most of his work, that's your problem. But to imply that oh well Cecil is brilliant and that's why Pharoah is bad is silly

I'm not Sanders so no thanks

G C F A# Eb
Dipshit, I've played piano for years. I'm classically trained but I dabble in jazz

What I like Pharoah I've been defending him - just been listening to Black Unity - think you're confusing me with another user

Yeah, let me just write out a quick theoretical analysis of all 70 of Cecil Taylor's albums and however many Ayler has.

If you want to talk specific albums (tracks is even better, but I have a sneaking suspicion that you're scared of talking about individual tracks) then I'll be happy to do that. It might have to be a different time though since I'm a little busy at the moment.

pussy

>A# in the key of Eb
Lol yeah theory genius here

Also you forgot chord qualities. Maybe you should just stick to classical music where someone smart tells you what to play. I think that would suit you.

>woah this guy actually writes music what a retard

T. "kind of blue a love supreme the list goes on lmao"

I don't even understand what you're trying to imply here

I have to go now anyway but I'm sure we'll probably have this conversation again. Maybe next time you can do a little more then just call me names