Japan 1000 years ago

>Japan 1000 years ago.
>Clashing warloards fight for power.
>Walk up to fortress/town/stronghold with army.
>Wait outside for enemy.
>Enemy steps outside in full force.
>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans.

>Few years later
>European explorers arrive
>War trade starts to erupt.
>Whites bring along firearms and siege weapons.
>Honourable fighting no longer exists.
>Battles start to be fought behind walls.
>1 on 1 fighting is no longer used in battles.

Why are whites so dishonourable Sup Forums?

Nips had respect, pride and chivalry in war. Literally torn away by faggot tier fighting measures.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbivore_men
telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/15/bbc-is-too-christian-and-could-broadcast-muslim-prayers-to-refle/?cid=sf26316826 sf26316826
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_Japan
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivalry
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

because we fight to win but we don't win anymore.
We need Trump.

That's why they are famous for their assassins, right?

Technology

>lose battle
>get butthurt
>literally ragequit

implying nips weren't just angry sore losers

Fuck off weeaboo.

>bow shitter
>honourable

Peasants killing/overthrowing the clan controlling their province tho.

I've never seen a script where a warlord used assassination before foreign influences.

>abloobloo come out and fight me faggggg

>I've never seen a script where a warlord used assassination before foreign influences.
and?

Ninjas were considered dishonorable for the same reason guns were: Samurai didn't like that commoners could kill them. And ninjas came about before westerners.

>Assassin / Shinobi
>Honour

Pick one.

>I've never seen a script where a warlord used assassination before foreign influences.
You sound like the type of person that says wildly wrong things, but with enough conviction that your even more retarded friends just think you're smart.

>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans.

You really are clueless. This never fucking happened. NEVER. Not in ancient times, not in medieval times, not in Europe, not in Asia. It's a fucking movie trope, because it's easier to film a dozen of one on one fights than to show actual cavalry banners advancing and retreating in formation. But the truth is, that once your formation is broken, you are fucked - regardless whether you are a hoplite, legionary, knight, samurai or chevau-leger.

The Japanese killed civilians and used POWs as target practice there is no honour in that at all.

That's exactly how Greek warfare was up to the Peloponnesian War, I don't see why it might not be so in feudal Japan.

Fresh off the boat, from reddit, kid? heh I remember when I was just like you. Braindead. Lemme give you a tip so you can make it in this cyber sanctuary: never make jokes like that. You got no reputation here, you got no name, you got jackshit here. It's survival of the fittest and you ain't gonna survive long on Sup Forums by saying stupid jokes that your little hugbox cuntsucking reddit friends would upboat. None of that here. You don't upboat. You don't downboat. This ain't reddit, kid. This is Sup Forums. We have REAL intellectual discussion, something I don't think you're all that familiar with. You don't like it, you can hit the bricks on over to imgur, you daily show watching son of a bitch. I hope you don't tho. I hope you stay here and learn our ways. Things are different here, unlike any other place that the light of internet pop culture reaches. You can be anything here. Me ? heh, I'm a judge.. this place.... this place has a lot to offer... heh you'll see, kid . . . that is if you can handle it...

Japanese ''''''battles'''''' before the era of mass mobilization were choreographed faggy duels between lords or their retainers, and live-fire archery contests, then everyone would go home and I guess one side or the other got the rice paddy rights

>citation needed

for centuries prior to the famed Sengoku period, combat really was a series of goofy duels

Those with horses and weaponry would fight small skirmishes, be attended to by their man-servants during break time, do it again a little bit then get bored I guess and bounce. They could afford to do this because, as a seal-off society, the stakes were not terrifically high and they didn't need to develop as a people that could wholly go to war. Japanese armies, made up of levies that involved hundreds of thousands of people, with all of the modern concerns (logistics, training en mass, maneuver tactics, etc.) were a very late phenomenon.

donald kagan's yale lecture series

btw i don't mean 1 on 1 'duels' but they were just small setpiece battle between opposing lumps of hoplites. they'd clash, a couple would die, one side would run away and whoever remained won and that was it, war over.

Because shooting the enemy army to death from hundreds of metres away is far more effective and demoralising than 1 on 1 battles.
Having your generals take to the field was no longer viable after the gunpowder revolution.

because it wasn't

they'd have a few fights like that maybe at the start, maybe, but the rest was wholesale slaughter. they had no tradition of taking prisoners of war either, so survivors were either butchered or tortured to death or enslaved and worked to death. the wives and children of the losing nobles where usually killed as well.

and the main weapon of the samurai was the bow, then the spear. swords were back up and only gained prominence during the later peaceful tokugawa shogunate, when they stopped using everything else because it was peaceful.

There isn't any place for honor in war, just death.

do you have a source for that cause it seems retarded

Well yeah, your use of exactly made it sound differently.

There is no doubt, by looking at the Greek equipment, that they fought in formation.
Small forces, yes. But that is nowhere near a bunch of people just dueling it out 1 on 1.

they were also used as spies for information gathering, not just assasination

I thought the contention was about setpiece battles vs sieges.
Near-eastern warfare in the Byzantine era featured lots of dueling, though it didn't entirely determine the contest.

>Because shooting the enemy army to death from hundreds of metres away is far more effective and demoralising than 1 on 1 battles.

So what, its still cuck warfare

since ever it was adopted society has been going to shit because there is no place for masculinity in society that the older, honor-based fighting style demanded. If you can't get laid its because you dont understand honor and being a man.

>ragequit
Kek

No bitch its just "warfare" the distance was judged initially by the range of the weapon hence spears being long as fuck. They didnt get close to be "honorable" they got as close as they could without risk.

The gun added range

I wish I could into Sup Forums as well as you.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbivore_men

>>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans.

t. Sup Forums

whites cast off the ritual nature of their warfare many years before most other civilizations, the same thing happened with the Spanish in the new world, pure efficient killing machines versus ritualized fighters that don't even aim to kill their enemy had pretty predictable results. Whites conquered the world through pure brute efficiency.

>Surveys of single Japanese men conducted in 2010 found that 61% of men in their 20s and 70% of men in their 30s considered themselves to be herbivores
Good luck, Japan.

what the fuck??
Does japan have any kind of socialistic economy? Will they try to get "immigrants" for the socialistic pyramid scheme or do the Nips have a good right wing economy?

The interesting thing about Japan isn't their feudal era which only attracts weebs.

What is interesting about Japan was their ability to recognize western civilization as superior and adapt to it. They bought our arms and boats, and use them to make and supplement their own.

When the UK tried to jew them out of their own goods, Japan refused to buy JewK's shit. On a massive scale. It's still the only country who industrialized under UK flooding their country with cheap shit. They went on to beat a European power, conquer swathes of Asia, and took on basically the world.

And even after they were nuked, they took American capitalism and ran with it better than America does. Still probably one of the USA's best allies.

tl;dr Feudal Japan is weebshit, industrial Japan is an interesting case study.

>It's the westerners
>Not the mongol invasion of kyushu

The reason they had the duel oriented combat for the samurai was to resolve conflicts without getting too high casualties, since they had relatively small populations in their territories. Losing a few thousand farmers would be a disaster for the harvest.

Didn't have that much to do with honor, it was just a necessity for their feudal rule to keep casualties down.

Also the mongolians and koreans gave them trouble way before the europeans ever did.

Damn, it must be sad to have fought in WW2 for the jews, and getting your country islamized by the same jews you died for 70 years ago. Good job u crooked teeth motherfuckers.
telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/15/bbc-is-too-christian-and-could-broadcast-muslim-prayers-to-refle/?cid=sf26316826 sf26316826

> fighting wars honorably

haha what a faggot!

>Austria
>Fighting wars
kek

The Aztecs fought like that.

> Britain
> Fighting wars

Top kek

>japan
>honorable

Those people tested their swords on peasants.
Slaughtered the enemy clans towns and use rape and torture as punishment.

they were at no form, way or shape better than the europeans in regards to morality

Europe is lucky Japan never decided to invade pre-gunpowder europe.
Katana>>>>>longswords

I said Honour not Morality.

Morality is a fairly new concept anyway.

this.

Nips honestly believed that you can die with honour as long as you die it right- pretty much regardless of what you did.

Such ignorance of culture and warfare.

No such fighting used to happen. Stop watching animes and samurai films.

Its like genuinely believing the stand offs in Westerns actually happened.

Meh, I don't think Katanas were anything special.
Their primary usage was to kill unarmed peasants anyway.

I'd prefer a longsword in a battle.
>Implying I know what a medieval battle is like.

>#notallsamuris

80% of the deaths in that period were caused by bows, european trader simply introduced superior bows to them.

also,
>implying the defender just marched out of his castle

>Ninja less honorable than samurai

Sup Forums pls

>80%
Less than 20% of forces at the time had bows, and even less men able to use them effectively.

Nice try, reddit.

well european medieval battle was basically
>broadsword in initial conflict
>cut eachother up
>soon enough just grappling and bashing eachother to death

Katanas are very much for staying apart, remaining quick etc

Should we have just let them live like savages forever? Go the fuck back to Red dit

>honorable fighting
>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans.

Never existed.

People cheated with better equipment, greater numbers, and surprise tactics all the time, no great empire was formed through honorable combat.

Try:
>Shieldwalls
>Spears
>Bashing at each other for 30 mins.
>Wall collapses on one front.
>Soldiers turn and run.
>Backstabs.

Thats when 90% of battlefield casualties happened in pretty much every pre-gunpowder conflict.

When you're in a total war, you utilize every known resource, technology and tactic to ensure you defeat your enemy. Anything short of that ensures that you are defeated by your enemy, or you defeat yourself with imaginary rules.

>samurai faggotry
>honourable

>Implying anyone but knights/elites/career mercs actually had swords

Simple spears and a shield packed into a big brick was the standard weapon of the middle ages. Later on when cavalry became more prevalent they ditched the shield and just had a longer spear (pike)

I love Japan which is why I'm now a #Cruzmissle.

ITT: Americans still butthurt that their pilots were too pussy to sacrifice themselves for a greater cause.

You'll never come back.

>jew
>talking about honor

You should stick with cuck-shitposting, much more convincing.

You realize the birth of and widespread usage of ninjas or assassins in general happened for these exact reasons you describe. Honor breeds an incentive for dishonor, one that Japan had already been exploiting long before Europeans arrived.

>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans

Top kek

>Mongoloids.
>Honorable.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>Whites bring along firearms and siege weapons.
>Honourable fighting no longer exists.

As opposed to the highly honorable jap tradition of disarming peasants then attacking them with swords while highly armored yourself.

>America, No Feudalism

>According to our manner of fighting we must first call out by name someone from the enemy ranks, and then attack in single combat. But the Mongols took no notice at all of such conventions. They rushed forward all together in a mass, grappling with any individuals they could catch and killing them

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_Japan

Please don't respond to reddit.

>they only fought fair
>what is the death of nobunaga

>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans.

Chivalry, or the chivalric code, is a code of conduct associated with the medieval institution of knighthood which developed between 1170 and 1220.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivalry

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_Japan
in 1274 and 1281

Americans,Chinese(Koreans) and other asians in Asia have never experienced Feudalism era, so they can not understand

>He still committed seppuku.

Still honour led.

>>Honourable fighting no longer exists.

It was never really honorable m8. They stole the heads from enemies other had slain so they could present it to their warlords and gain favor and shit like that. There was just as much dishonorable shit going on as in every other army.

The difference was just that their way of fighting wars sucked ass, they could not really storm the strongholds with the weapons they had at their disposal so the only thing left to them was a siege and starving out the enemy. Leaving the stronghold and attacking them just cut out all the waiting and proceeded to the inevitable.

>honoraburulu yellow man.

Fuck off, war is war.

"The Japanese are the most belligerent people around these parts. They bring artillery, many arquebusiers and pikemen. They use defensive weapons for the body (Body armor). All provided due to the action ("by the industry of", in old spanish) of the portuguese, who showed these to them, bringing harm of their souls."
-Governor of the Philippines to king Philip II of Spain on 16th of June 1582.

>master bait folded over a thousand times...

>bringing harm of their souls
What?

They were too busy dressing other men like girls and fucking them to do anything of importance.

You don't wage war to fight fair, I know you Britbongs know all about that. Thanks for losing that war m8s :^)

Didn't siege war already exist in japan . Aren't there castles built with walls and alleys made to be hard to surround and siege? Weren't ronin a thing? Lay off the anime and movies kid.

Nips
>Brittle swords that can't withstand a direct
>Shitty armor made from lacquered bamboo
>Undisciplined armies with poor formations
>Fighting with the same old retards
>Shitty fishing boats that can't make it through a strait

Spaniards
>Firearms
>Siege Machines
>Toledo steel rivaling modern industrial steel
>Unbreakable Tercio Formation
>Warring with different cultures for several millenia
>Giant warships capable of circumnavigation

When the Japanese actually fought the Spanish in 1582, it only took 40 men to defeat 1000 ronin samurai.

Subtle. Very damn subtle. Like a ninja. DO YOU GET THAT user!? HE IS SAYING WHY WOULD A SUCCESSFUL NINJA ASSASINATION BE ON RECORD?

Even in the >muh katana era japs were using spears as their main battle weapons, just like pretty much anywhere in the world, especially in pre-gunpowder europe.

Spears are
>cheap to make
>have superior reach

>"There is no honour in fighting with these (guns), however victory wipes away dishonour" ~ Some famous nip, forgot name

And the portuguese were defeated 2 times in a row by the chinese, what the portuguese had was just technological advancements, nothing to do with honor at all.

Nevermind, got the quote AND the source wrong. It's "A weapon that kills without honor, without skill, but even so, it gives power and victory. And victory wipes away dishonor" ~ Some nip in a Total War game

Yea, "to their souls" would be a better translation. I think its just refering to the war tech clash of the time, which brought a whole new level of destruction. (same happened in japan a few decades ago :^) )

Portuguese are very weak, so it's no wonder. They are the Jews of Iberia

Even if it happened once or twice, which it may have. It's not like someone is going to say; "Well shit you beat one of my guys, you win", not even in Japan.

The winner of that battle could expect arrows to the face.

They brought knives to a gun fight and you wonder why they got btfo'ed?

Britbong plz.

Weeaboos like you belong on a cross

> what is a knight?
> what is knighthood?
> what is a white shirt duel?

war were never fought 1 vs 1 but rather formation vs formation

A huge wall of shield and spears vs another one

Also, samurai and knights -> loads of munay -> better armor/weapons -> proper training ->very high chance of survival

Paesant -> spear
Other paesant - shield and axe
Paesant training = basic -> very low chance of survival

This is not an anime buddy, nor a videogame, war has never been fair.

But at least u could have seen your murderer / victim in the eyes before

Kamikaze wrecked those fucking mongols.

>implying

This is propaganda, delete this

Also nip arsenal was infinitly inferior compared to the western one

Nip had spears, bows and katanas

Shields were largely unused. Same for axes, halberds, maces, hammers etc.

This because europeans had developed a wide array of armors and tactics while the nips pretty much didnt change much during time.

A clear example is the evolution of the 1 handed sword. From the gothic to the estoc and so on.

Katana instead stayed pretty much the same

>Why are whites so dishonourable Sup Forums?
>Nips had respect, pride and chivalry in war. Literally torn away by faggot tier fighting measures.
Are you a fucking moron?

>it's a 'weeaboo thinks Samurai were noble warriors rather than a corrupt administrator/warrior class that brutally repressed peasents' episode