>Japan 1000 years ago. >Clashing warloards fight for power. >Walk up to fortress/town/stronghold with army. >Wait outside for enemy. >Enemy steps outside in full force. >Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans.
>Few years later >European explorers arrive >War trade starts to erupt. >Whites bring along firearms and siege weapons. >Honourable fighting no longer exists. >Battles start to be fought behind walls. >1 on 1 fighting is no longer used in battles.
Why are whites so dishonourable Sup Forums?
Nips had respect, pride and chivalry in war. Literally torn away by faggot tier fighting measures.
because we fight to win but we don't win anymore. We need Trump.
Jackson Anderson
That's why they are famous for their assassins, right?
Elijah James
Technology
Austin Gonzalez
>lose battle >get butthurt >literally ragequit
implying nips weren't just angry sore losers
Carter Hall
Fuck off weeaboo.
Nicholas Ross
>bow shitter >honourable
Angel Allen
Peasants killing/overthrowing the clan controlling their province tho.
I've never seen a script where a warlord used assassination before foreign influences.
Dylan Allen
>abloobloo come out and fight me faggggg
>I've never seen a script where a warlord used assassination before foreign influences. and?
Charles Baker
Ninjas were considered dishonorable for the same reason guns were: Samurai didn't like that commoners could kill them. And ninjas came about before westerners.
Jace Anderson
>Assassin / Shinobi >Honour
Pick one.
Camden Brown
>I've never seen a script where a warlord used assassination before foreign influences. You sound like the type of person that says wildly wrong things, but with enough conviction that your even more retarded friends just think you're smart.
Jacob Reyes
>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans.
You really are clueless. This never fucking happened. NEVER. Not in ancient times, not in medieval times, not in Europe, not in Asia. It's a fucking movie trope, because it's easier to film a dozen of one on one fights than to show actual cavalry banners advancing and retreating in formation. But the truth is, that once your formation is broken, you are fucked - regardless whether you are a hoplite, legionary, knight, samurai or chevau-leger.
Cameron Wright
The Japanese killed civilians and used POWs as target practice there is no honour in that at all.
Ian Lewis
That's exactly how Greek warfare was up to the Peloponnesian War, I don't see why it might not be so in feudal Japan.
Liam Ross
Fresh off the boat, from reddit, kid? heh I remember when I was just like you. Braindead. Lemme give you a tip so you can make it in this cyber sanctuary: never make jokes like that. You got no reputation here, you got no name, you got jackshit here. It's survival of the fittest and you ain't gonna survive long on Sup Forums by saying stupid jokes that your little hugbox cuntsucking reddit friends would upboat. None of that here. You don't upboat. You don't downboat. This ain't reddit, kid. This is Sup Forums. We have REAL intellectual discussion, something I don't think you're all that familiar with. You don't like it, you can hit the bricks on over to imgur, you daily show watching son of a bitch. I hope you don't tho. I hope you stay here and learn our ways. Things are different here, unlike any other place that the light of internet pop culture reaches. You can be anything here. Me ? heh, I'm a judge.. this place.... this place has a lot to offer... heh you'll see, kid . . . that is if you can handle it...
Nicholas Ward
Japanese ''''''battles'''''' before the era of mass mobilization were choreographed faggy duels between lords or their retainers, and live-fire archery contests, then everyone would go home and I guess one side or the other got the rice paddy rights
Brandon Brown
>citation needed
Zachary Reed
for centuries prior to the famed Sengoku period, combat really was a series of goofy duels
Those with horses and weaponry would fight small skirmishes, be attended to by their man-servants during break time, do it again a little bit then get bored I guess and bounce. They could afford to do this because, as a seal-off society, the stakes were not terrifically high and they didn't need to develop as a people that could wholly go to war. Japanese armies, made up of levies that involved hundreds of thousands of people, with all of the modern concerns (logistics, training en mass, maneuver tactics, etc.) were a very late phenomenon.
Elijah Allen
donald kagan's yale lecture series
Isaac Bennett
btw i don't mean 1 on 1 'duels' but they were just small setpiece battle between opposing lumps of hoplites. they'd clash, a couple would die, one side would run away and whoever remained won and that was it, war over.
Ryder Stewart
Because shooting the enemy army to death from hundreds of metres away is far more effective and demoralising than 1 on 1 battles. Having your generals take to the field was no longer viable after the gunpowder revolution.
Jonathan Brown
because it wasn't
they'd have a few fights like that maybe at the start, maybe, but the rest was wholesale slaughter. they had no tradition of taking prisoners of war either, so survivors were either butchered or tortured to death or enslaved and worked to death. the wives and children of the losing nobles where usually killed as well.
and the main weapon of the samurai was the bow, then the spear. swords were back up and only gained prominence during the later peaceful tokugawa shogunate, when they stopped using everything else because it was peaceful.
Christian Bell
There isn't any place for honor in war, just death.
Jaxon Bennett
do you have a source for that cause it seems retarded
Liam Ross
Well yeah, your use of exactly made it sound differently.
There is no doubt, by looking at the Greek equipment, that they fought in formation. Small forces, yes. But that is nowhere near a bunch of people just dueling it out 1 on 1.
Adrian Barnes
they were also used as spies for information gathering, not just assasination
Evan Harris
I thought the contention was about setpiece battles vs sieges. Near-eastern warfare in the Byzantine era featured lots of dueling, though it didn't entirely determine the contest.
Carter Rivera
>Because shooting the enemy army to death from hundreds of metres away is far more effective and demoralising than 1 on 1 battles.
So what, its still cuck warfare
since ever it was adopted society has been going to shit because there is no place for masculinity in society that the older, honor-based fighting style demanded. If you can't get laid its because you dont understand honor and being a man.
Nathaniel Moore
>ragequit Kek
Xavier Anderson
No bitch its just "warfare" the distance was judged initially by the range of the weapon hence spears being long as fuck. They didnt get close to be "honorable" they got as close as they could without risk.
>>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans.
t. Sup Forums
Carson Anderson
whites cast off the ritual nature of their warfare many years before most other civilizations, the same thing happened with the Spanish in the new world, pure efficient killing machines versus ritualized fighters that don't even aim to kill their enemy had pretty predictable results. Whites conquered the world through pure brute efficiency.
Oliver Thomas
>Surveys of single Japanese men conducted in 2010 found that 61% of men in their 20s and 70% of men in their 30s considered themselves to be herbivores Good luck, Japan.
Kevin Gomez
what the fuck?? Does japan have any kind of socialistic economy? Will they try to get "immigrants" for the socialistic pyramid scheme or do the Nips have a good right wing economy?
Austin Thomas
The interesting thing about Japan isn't their feudal era which only attracts weebs.
What is interesting about Japan was their ability to recognize western civilization as superior and adapt to it. They bought our arms and boats, and use them to make and supplement their own.
When the UK tried to jew them out of their own goods, Japan refused to buy JewK's shit. On a massive scale. It's still the only country who industrialized under UK flooding their country with cheap shit. They went on to beat a European power, conquer swathes of Asia, and took on basically the world.
And even after they were nuked, they took American capitalism and ran with it better than America does. Still probably one of the USA's best allies.
tl;dr Feudal Japan is weebshit, industrial Japan is an interesting case study.
Tyler Cooper
>It's the westerners >Not the mongol invasion of kyushu
Dominic Hernandez
The reason they had the duel oriented combat for the samurai was to resolve conflicts without getting too high casualties, since they had relatively small populations in their territories. Losing a few thousand farmers would be a disaster for the harvest.
Didn't have that much to do with honor, it was just a necessity for their feudal rule to keep casualties down.
Also the mongolians and koreans gave them trouble way before the europeans ever did.
Those people tested their swords on peasants. Slaughtered the enemy clans towns and use rape and torture as punishment.
they were at no form, way or shape better than the europeans in regards to morality
Samuel Ortiz
Europe is lucky Japan never decided to invade pre-gunpowder europe. Katana>>>>>longswords
Daniel Perry
I said Honour not Morality.
Morality is a fairly new concept anyway.
Kevin Taylor
this.
Nips honestly believed that you can die with honour as long as you die it right- pretty much regardless of what you did.
Carter Campbell
Such ignorance of culture and warfare.
No such fighting used to happen. Stop watching animes and samurai films.
Its like genuinely believing the stand offs in Westerns actually happened.
Ian Gray
Meh, I don't think Katanas were anything special. Their primary usage was to kill unarmed peasants anyway.
I'd prefer a longsword in a battle. >Implying I know what a medieval battle is like.
Eli Baker
>#notallsamuris
Jose Rogers
80% of the deaths in that period were caused by bows, european trader simply introduced superior bows to them.
also, >implying the defender just marched out of his castle
Parker Thomas
>Ninja less honorable than samurai
Sup Forums pls
Hunter Fisher
>80% Less than 20% of forces at the time had bows, and even less men able to use them effectively.
Nice try, reddit.
Julian Evans
well european medieval battle was basically >broadsword in initial conflict >cut eachother up >soon enough just grappling and bashing eachother to death
Katanas are very much for staying apart, remaining quick etc
Thomas Perez
Should we have just let them live like savages forever? Go the fuck back to Red dit
Connor Sanchez
>honorable fighting >Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans.
Never existed.
People cheated with better equipment, greater numbers, and surprise tactics all the time, no great empire was formed through honorable combat.
Isaiah Lewis
Try: >Shieldwalls >Spears >Bashing at each other for 30 mins. >Wall collapses on one front. >Soldiers turn and run. >Backstabs.
Thats when 90% of battlefield casualties happened in pretty much every pre-gunpowder conflict.
Landon Perez
When you're in a total war, you utilize every known resource, technology and tactic to ensure you defeat your enemy. Anything short of that ensures that you are defeated by your enemy, or you defeat yourself with imaginary rules.
Brody Diaz
>samurai faggotry >honourable
Elijah Sullivan
>Implying anyone but knights/elites/career mercs actually had swords
Simple spears and a shield packed into a big brick was the standard weapon of the middle ages. Later on when cavalry became more prevalent they ditched the shield and just had a longer spear (pike)
Jonathan Howard
I love Japan which is why I'm now a #Cruzmissle.
Andrew Nelson
ITT: Americans still butthurt that their pilots were too pussy to sacrifice themselves for a greater cause.
You'll never come back.
Jayden Clark
>jew >talking about honor
Kevin Davis
You should stick with cuck-shitposting, much more convincing.
Nathaniel Foster
You realize the birth of and widespread usage of ninjas or assassins in general happened for these exact reasons you describe. Honor breeds an incentive for dishonor, one that Japan had already been exploiting long before Europeans arrived.
Christopher Gray
>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans
Top kek
Kayden Cox
>Mongoloids. >Honorable. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Adam Edwards
>Whites bring along firearms and siege weapons. >Honourable fighting no longer exists.
As opposed to the highly honorable jap tradition of disarming peasants then attacking them with swords while highly armored yourself.
Landon Carter
>America, No Feudalism
Jackson Martin
>According to our manner of fighting we must first call out by name someone from the enemy ranks, and then attack in single combat. But the Mongols took no notice at all of such conventions. They rushed forward all together in a mass, grappling with any individuals they could catch and killing them
>they only fought fair >what is the death of nobunaga
David Flores
>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans.
Chivalry, or the chivalric code, is a code of conduct associated with the medieval institution of knighthood which developed between 1170 and 1220. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivalry
Americans,Chinese(Koreans) and other asians in Asia have never experienced Feudalism era, so they can not understand
Ryder Phillips
>He still committed seppuku.
Still honour led.
Xavier Turner
>>Honourable fighting no longer exists.
It was never really honorable m8. They stole the heads from enemies other had slain so they could present it to their warlords and gain favor and shit like that. There was just as much dishonorable shit going on as in every other army.
The difference was just that their way of fighting wars sucked ass, they could not really storm the strongholds with the weapons they had at their disposal so the only thing left to them was a siege and starving out the enemy. Leaving the stronghold and attacking them just cut out all the waiting and proceeded to the inevitable.
Logan Sullivan
>honoraburulu yellow man.
Fuck off, war is war.
"The Japanese are the most belligerent people around these parts. They bring artillery, many arquebusiers and pikemen. They use defensive weapons for the body (Body armor). All provided due to the action ("by the industry of", in old spanish) of the portuguese, who showed these to them, bringing harm of their souls." -Governor of the Philippines to king Philip II of Spain on 16th of June 1582.
Landon Cook
>master bait folded over a thousand times...
Luke Moore
>bringing harm of their souls What?
Lucas Scott
They were too busy dressing other men like girls and fucking them to do anything of importance.
You don't wage war to fight fair, I know you Britbongs know all about that. Thanks for losing that war m8s :^)
Charles Peterson
Didn't siege war already exist in japan . Aren't there castles built with walls and alleys made to be hard to surround and siege? Weren't ronin a thing? Lay off the anime and movies kid.
Brayden Watson
Nips >Brittle swords that can't withstand a direct >Shitty armor made from lacquered bamboo >Undisciplined armies with poor formations >Fighting with the same old retards >Shitty fishing boats that can't make it through a strait
Spaniards >Firearms >Siege Machines >Toledo steel rivaling modern industrial steel >Unbreakable Tercio Formation >Warring with different cultures for several millenia >Giant warships capable of circumnavigation
When the Japanese actually fought the Spanish in 1582, it only took 40 men to defeat 1000 ronin samurai.
Ayden Wright
Subtle. Very damn subtle. Like a ninja. DO YOU GET THAT user!? HE IS SAYING WHY WOULD A SUCCESSFUL NINJA ASSASINATION BE ON RECORD?
Robert Cook
Even in the >muh katana era japs were using spears as their main battle weapons, just like pretty much anywhere in the world, especially in pre-gunpowder europe.
Spears are >cheap to make >have superior reach
Christian Russell
>"There is no honour in fighting with these (guns), however victory wipes away dishonour" ~ Some famous nip, forgot name
Julian Bennett
And the portuguese were defeated 2 times in a row by the chinese, what the portuguese had was just technological advancements, nothing to do with honor at all.
Jayden Stewart
Nevermind, got the quote AND the source wrong. It's "A weapon that kills without honor, without skill, but even so, it gives power and victory. And victory wipes away dishonor" ~ Some nip in a Total War game
Anthony Powell
Yea, "to their souls" would be a better translation. I think its just refering to the war tech clash of the time, which brought a whole new level of destruction. (same happened in japan a few decades ago :^) )
Tyler Howard
Portuguese are very weak, so it's no wonder. They are the Jews of Iberia
Nathaniel Long
Even if it happened once or twice, which it may have. It's not like someone is going to say; "Well shit you beat one of my guys, you win", not even in Japan.
The winner of that battle could expect arrows to the face.
Jacob Smith
They brought knives to a gun fight and you wonder why they got btfo'ed?
Britbong plz.
Nicholas Ortiz
Weeaboos like you belong on a cross
Grayson Ramirez
> what is a knight? > what is knighthood? > what is a white shirt duel?
war were never fought 1 vs 1 but rather formation vs formation
A huge wall of shield and spears vs another one
Also, samurai and knights -> loads of munay -> better armor/weapons -> proper training ->very high chance of survival
Paesant -> spear Other paesant - shield and axe Paesant training = basic -> very low chance of survival
This is not an anime buddy, nor a videogame, war has never been fair.
But at least u could have seen your murderer / victim in the eyes before
Gavin Brown
Kamikaze wrecked those fucking mongols.
Jordan Taylor
>implying
Noah Young
This is propaganda, delete this
Jace Scott
Also nip arsenal was infinitly inferior compared to the western one
Nip had spears, bows and katanas
Shields were largely unused. Same for axes, halberds, maces, hammers etc.
This because europeans had developed a wide array of armors and tactics while the nips pretty much didnt change much during time.
A clear example is the evolution of the 1 handed sword. From the gothic to the estoc and so on.
Katana instead stayed pretty much the same
Sebastian Phillips
>Why are whites so dishonourable Sup Forums? >Nips had respect, pride and chivalry in war. Literally torn away by faggot tier fighting measures. Are you a fucking moron?
Justin Jackson
>it's a 'weeaboo thinks Samurai were noble warriors rather than a corrupt administrator/warrior class that brutally repressed peasents' episode