Thoughts on universal basic income?

Thoughts on universal basic income?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income

>An unconditional basic income (also called basic income, basic income guarantee, universal basic income, universal demogrant,[1] or citizen’s income) is a form of social security system[2] in which all citizens or residents of a country regularly receive an unconditional sum of money, either from a government or some other public institution, in addition to any income received from elsewhere.

On the one hand, this is a good, humane, compassionate policy that ensures that nobody ill be left behind, but at the same time this could be easily exploited by degenerates. Also, the state would be increasingly interfering with our lives. I think it's only possible in non degenerate countries like Switzerland and [spoiler]Canada[/spoiler].

Other urls found in this thread:

independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ontario-to-pilot-a-universal-basic-income-experiment-a6916571.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligopoly
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

my views on socialism?
fuck it

Prepare for rent prices to fucking skyrocket.

As long as the citizens can use their gibmedats to finance terrorism against the state, it's perfect.

>give people money for doing nothing
>more people start doing nothing
hmmm

>be retail owner
>wages go up
>so do my prices

I don't like it and I think it's too soon to be talking about it right now, but I believe that a system like that is inevitable in the not too distant future as machines replace the need for human labor.

At some point in the future, I think it's going to become necessary. Automation is going to steadily decrease the amount of jobs available, and our population is still growing each year. However, we don't need it yet, and I'm not convinced our economies can handle it right now anyway. But it's definitely something we should be aware of, and possibly start laying the financial groundwork for.

hahaha what the fuck

If everyone has something then no one has something, enjoy prices going up and the currency getting inflated, what is the point?

the only people who want basic income are niggers and NEET faggots fuck off OP and keep your grubby jew hands out of my pocket

please without the gender and race politics. either just make it about class or simply everyone.

We should have rent controls anyway.

I can think of many end results of UBI, both good and bad.

However, I don't know of anything else we can do once labor is completely disconnected from production, i.e. once automation replaces most jobs.

What will be left? We are already closing more markets than making them.

Yeah, communism. We already tried this, it doesn't work.

I'm fine with universal basic income in exchange for universal basic labor.

Communism, rebranded

When everything is automated you might have to do something like this, but with so many people flooding our countries it might not be possible

I think at the time everything because automated and there are no jobs there will be huge civil wars in all 1st world countries

People worked for their slave wages in communist USSR. Is that the communism you speak of?

>Automation is going to steadily decrease the amount of jobs available
Both of you are retarded.
Jobs won't just """"disappear"""". New occupations will take their place.

Think of the jobs we have now that didn't exist 100 or even 50 years ago.
Heck, 20 years ago there was no such thing as cloud development.

I'd love to see some country try it just so we can see it fail and have proof it won't work.

You should look up the effects of price ceilings

Yeah, and this is what is going to happen with you westcucks if you will be retarded enough to permit something like UBI

its called commie plot round 3

round 1: cold war

round 2: latam bolivarianism

round 3: muh basic income

they NEVER learn

But who the fuck wants the government to interfere with what they want to charge for their property?
If I want to charge 10 000 bucks per month for a shack in the middle of bumfuck nowhere I'm gonna do it.

I would support it for white people, but it's too early, whites need to rebuild Volksgemeinschaft first. Then it's time to destroy capitalism.

marx was right about technology

This only benefits those with below average intelligence/work ethic/planning skills

Even if you are complete average in 2/3 and above average in 1/3 of theses, you are subsidizing the system for the mouth breathing sector of the population

I don't go to work everyday to give random people a check just for waking up

Further, if the only way to support yourself is to live on government welfare, you dont deserve to be kept alive

Well, what would be ideal then?

Rich get richer, poor get poorer? I know this is such a Bernie meme thing to say but I really do hate seeing the globalist elite establishment stay rich and powerful while us plebs are powerless cockroaches.

In America we call it the Army, but universal income is a good term too.

Seriously though, you can't be expected to get money for doing nothing, you at least need to look busy otherwise the façade of society won't hold up.

>Rich get richer, poor get poorer

How bout you become a productive member of society and be comfortably upper middle class.

If globalist elite is so bad and everyone knows it, why do they still have power if you have true capitalism?

Canada's Ontario provenance is about to do it.

Why do you ask?

BECAUSE IT'S GOD DAMN MOTHER FUCKING 2016

independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ontario-to-pilot-a-universal-basic-income-experiment-a6916571.html

You should look up income mobility.

The poor aren't getting poorer. There are those who do in society, and those who do not. The latter will never succeed.

>UBI
>you get it without working

>communism
>being forced to work for your wage

wat

>paying people for simply existing
Wew

which is why you need competition.

>New occupations will take their place.
thats some real baby tier thinking

New jobs will come, but how do you know the amount of new jobs will be equal to the amount of old jobs being taken away?

>Your entire life now depends on the government not fucking your shit up

One wrong leader and the country is fucked.
Also this creates a two class society: poorfags who are controlled by the state due to the paycheck. And richfags who make society go around.
Guess what group of people will get purged sooner or later? the burden on society or the producers?

Yes I want to do that but it's not that simple in Britbongistan.

Fucking retarded.

Not surprised that NEETs of Sup Forums support this.

You guys are literally as lazy as the niggers you hate so badly.

>muh robots will take jobs

Yeah. In 50 years or so.

>implying i'm not having closed door meetings with other retail owners where we agree not to raise our prices and all make a profit

We already have it.

It's called welfare.

>poorfags who are controlled by the state due to the paycheck.
Thats already the way it is, If you lose your job and go on benefits thats what happend
In a UBI world you would still be able to get a job like in todays world

Why Basic Income is a scam made to appeal to millenials who dream of not working but still affording coffee and a laptop every other year explained in one simple diagram.

>receive the money for not working
>communism
Great example of American education folks.

That will work with automatic manufacturing and robots everywhere. Just no other way to keep society.

Whats the problem, less competition for the people who try

This is for every nigger, including those who earn a load of money in employment.

The resources spent on a basic income would be much better put to use supporting welfare and higher minimum wages than simply handing out flat sums to everyone whether or not they need or deserve it

>helicopter money

Absolutely horrible.

Okay, where does the UBI budget come from?

I hope every country goes full blown socialism ASAP. We need it to collapse, and keeping any free-market principles around will only increase the longevity of our socialist states. Universal basic income should be at least 35,000 USD. Then we can finally erupt into civil war and revert back to a free country like God intended.

I hope you don't live in Ontario, boyo

This would work, as long as it was not too generous. It would be possible to live without working but you would not have access to any luxuries and everyone would consider you a leeching lazy fuck. In addition, this would only be granted to established citizens of a country (like you are only eligible after being a citizen for 5 years), to prevent retarded migrants.

Let's wait until we get there senpai. Society has invented a lot of jobs since the middle ages as work has become more effective.

"WE NEED BASIC INCOME NOW BECAUSE THINK OF WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE"

Then we do it in the future, no? No need to rush presumably...?

how the fuck does that result in more profit tho won't that just make everyone earn a bit less?

i know i'm economically illiterate

Not viable, comfort and content are the death of progress. So are humanity and compassion for the most part for that matter.

Well, there goes the entire "hurr, all people will just become NEETS argument"

I dont think basic income has anything to do with not giving benefits to disabled people

Basic income means firing a lot of admin and privatizing a lot of services that used to be publicly owned. That is all.

>Here is a cash amount lower than the value of what we are taking away. Vote for it goy.

thank fuck no, I'm in atlantic canada

I can't wait for this entire country to collapse so we can get absorbed by the US while ontario burns and quebec and the western provinces all fuck off and make their own countries.

Cooperating with other retail owners decreases price competition which drives up profits.
That's why collusion in illegal in most markets.

It's going to happen eventually
Otherwise there will be huge amounts of poverty
What do you think will happen when they perfect and legalize fully automatic cars?
Truck drives, taxi drivers, bus drivers will all become unemployed within a few decades.
The trucking industry alone employed 10 million Americans.
What about other jobs?
McDonalds is slowly transitioning to automated cashiers
What will we do when humans are obsolete for half of all jobs?

Oh yeah, and if the Basic Income is enough to cover rent for single person 1, then it's also by far enough to cover comfortable living for couple 2 and 3 who live in 2's inherited flat.

At the moment housing expenses are means tested. Hence people only get them if they need them. Hence people who have inherited houses don't get them.

We'll never absorb you. We don't want the extra liberals.

no one tries to compete, we all just agree to profit while not improving any of our products.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligopoly

The assertion is that with Basic Income you would shut down welfare services.

That includes welfare services to disabled people.

Or would you still preserve the welfare system and give mental disability benefits to retarded people on a means-tested basis? That's not what BI proponents are saying. They are saying welfare will be replaced.

is it possible to discuss Basic Income without it becoming Projection: The Thread?

i have a mentally disabled brother and i have have the resources to help him find some meaning in life. I wouldnt necessarily call myself a communist but i was always taught to share and help people. I also work in the medical profession and its quite clear that these programs act as drugs. some drugs work and some drugs dont work.

My two critiques with negative income taxes are these:
1. These programs are notoriously difficult to undo or reverse. Ie take them off drug
2. It should NOT be determined by race and gender theory.

other solutions include: dismantling crony capitalism or decentralizing government.

Sorry to break it to you, but people working at McDonalds aren't exactly "trying" as is. Some of them sure are, but you'd have to be mighty stupid (not that there's anything wrong with that) to try and stay at a shit job for long. People only are holding the economy up because they have to in order to survive. Take out any incentive to do even the simplest task and no one will do it. Then our executives and the rest of our workforce will have to pack their own lunches, wasting their own time rather than a nigger's, and GDP will plummet.

Ultimately that's a good thing though, lets all vote socialist in order to speed up the disintegration of our great nations.

>Total spending on benefits and tax credits is expected to come to about £217 billion in 2015/16
>UK population 65,111,143
I wouldn't be opposed to cutting everything else and just giving everyone ~£3333 a year.

Dude calculator lmao

$12000 a year in basic income for the USA = $3.78 TRILLIONS

2016 USA budget
Total revenue $3.525 trillion
Total expenditures $3.999 trillion (requested)
Deficit $474 billion + $3.78 trillions(and growing each year)

What will possibly go wrong, amirite?

>muh automation, muh obsolete jobs!
>gubmint makes money out of thin air to gibsmedats
>hyper inflation not seen since prewar Germany
>literally carry a suitcase of notes to buy a jug of milk or some break

Pretty sure social safety net programs cost more for us already. I support this because if it is implemented there is a heavy chance that safety net programs will be dissolved, leaving the filth no excuse to suck more from the system and it would allow a great deal of unoppurtuned people to follow their longterm goals. Sure niggers will get free money but youre delusional if you think the current system isnt rigged that way already. If niggers get govt bucks, so should everyone

Things in life are seldom free, to obtain a basic income something of equal value must be given up. That is the law of equivalent exchange.

>Basic income means firing a lot of admin and privatizing a lot of services that used to be publicly owned. That is all.

>I dont think basic income has anything to do with not giving benefits to disabled people

What the hell? Basic Income is consistently presented as involving REPLACING MEANS-TESTED WELFARE WITH THE BASIC INCOME AT A FLAT RATE.

Holy fuck.

Well, I guess it illustrates even better that Basic Income is whatever people need it to be in the moment.

Truck drivers will still be necessary if only for loading, paper work, etc.

We don't even have driver-less subways yet.

That's not how prices work but OKAY... Obviously not a business owner like me.

It's not the nature of things.

Let me even debunk you're fucked up photo for one.

It looks nice and fair for all of the poor fuckers on top right? Everything is equal right? MOTHA FUCKING WRONG NIGGA.

When a heft wave, the force of a tsunami, rogue under water current, and other natural oceanic movements happen, some of these fuckers are going to capsize, some of these fuckers will barely feel it, some of them will move so far away as to not even be apart of the group statistically anymore.

Nature is going to fuck some over more than others.

GET THE FUCK OVER IT AND DO ABSOLUTELY ALL YOU CAN TO MAKE IT SO NATURE FUCKS YOU OVER THE LEAST.

GOD DAMMIT YOU DUMB FUCKERS.

>2016, browsing pol and not having an offshore account.

The fuck is wrong with you people.

"I support it because"

Yea except you're wanting to make it mandatory I fucking finance it against my will.

You idiots never think past your nose

Shit yeah bro
Fuck supply and demand
Fuck the fact the every single time rent control has been introduced it ruined the supply of housing avaible and made it harder for the improvised to find houses as landlord either stop taking care of there building or don't invest and built anymore building.
Fuck yeah government involvement

>I wouldn't be opposed to cutting everything else and just giving everyone ~£3333 a year.

See my diagram here which has already addressed your post before it was even made:

There are already a ton of people who require more than £3333 a year in order to live. The proposition from the delusional fagfarm is that we can still cut their benefits enormously. They don't talk about the implication, which is that they would be dying in the streets, because that's not convenient.

Leftists would never let people die in the streets even if they spent their entire check on drugs day 1, so we would end up with a clusterfuck of Basic Income with additional means-tested welfare on the side.

>give mental disability benefits to retarded people

Why would anyone do that?

That is how prices work to an extent. Even when I was a commie I understood and accepted that. Your argument should be that hopefully wages go up 5% while prices go up 4.5%, which would help your average worker

if you live in a developed country you dont know what poor is. FACT

you will nver sleep in dirt, without electricity and water, on a tin shack. thats 90% of the world. the poor arent getting poorer, the poor are getting richer, as developing countries develop

automation wont end jobs, jobs will alwyas be there. this is just alarming nonsense, on the same vein as how a mailman would have complained about emails

>217 billion divided by 65,111,143 = £3333
Holy shit you are right, how does that even make sense?
If everyone single person in the country was on job seekers it still wouldn't reach that amount.
Who are all these people getting free money and how do i do it?

Becaue they can't work, so if they don't get money they die. It's a common meme in the developed world that we give people money to not die for lack of money.

It's an absolutely fantastic way to generate inflation, increase government debt, discourage low-skilled workers from finding employment, and lower the value of a currency, all while expanding the bloated bureaucracy of the welfare state.

As some anons have pointed out, it may be necessary if automation reached a level that rendered most jobs obsolete, but in that case it would probably be a system of energy-based credits based on the amount of energy it took to produce the goods/services you order from the automated services. In other words, it wouldn't really be currency or income by that point.

A doctor works harder then a janitor, they should not be payed equally.

Housing benefit add up senpai. Cost of rent per month x number of months x a bedroom for each of 7 kids.

Ahmed, Mohammed, Mahmood, Mahmoods cousin, Ali, Alis mate etc.

Basic income is welfare.

You know what? I'm fine with welfare. My idea of welfare though.

>You get an allowance based on necessities required (and a little extra) depending on age of individuals needing support
>Must live in gov't housing
>You are stripped of some basic rights (no voting, no gun buying, etc.)
>Must prove you're seeking employment
>Mandatry drug tests
>You are given a card to spend money, not cash
>Card is declined if purchases exceed a certain amount at certain stores (e.g. you couldn't spend more than $50 a day at an electronics store like Best Buy)
>No travel, unless you can prove it's a family emergency
>After you earn X amount you can no longer participate in the program. You will be evicted within a month from gov't housing, rights are restored
>After you earn Y amount your wages are garnished and you begin to pay back what you chose to borrow from the state
>This program is 100% voluntary, you can leave it at any time, but you must pay back what you borrowed
>There is no penalty for breaking the rules of the program (i.e. spending more than $50 at Best Buy somehow or buying a gun) but you are expelled from the program and must pay back what was borrowed

tl;dr I'm fine if you want to suck on the teat of welfare, but you're gonna live under conditions stipulated, and you are obligated to pay back anything you borrowed. Don't like it? Don't join, go be poor somewhere else.

Well I know I'll be called edgy but
that is what is wrong with the Western world.

This has always happened in the past, why wouldn't it happen in the future as well?
I'm not advocating raising the minimum wage, don't get me wrong, but when automation comes we will have jobs to replace the old ones.

Bernie Sanders' gaping asshole

>if they don't get money they die.

They would get basic income.
Also if they require care, their caretakers also get basic income.

Basic necessities makes more sense. Food/Water/Shelter. They would be basic to encourage people to succeed. Just a basic nutrient paste, water and a converted shipping container. If it was done efficiently it could work out to be rather cost effective.

Does the taxpayer get to stipulate how the government spends their cash, or is that a one way thing?

Calm down its a discussion. I am acknowledging that you already pay for niggers to live so this "i dont want to pay" attitude really gets you nowhere because the govt doesn't give a fuck about you and will take as they please to appease the niggers. My presumption was that if the safety net programs are dissolved then we will save in the end and the investment would be spent on people who matter and niggers instead of only niggers. Is there a more educated user here who can confirm that?