I found this comment online about some of The Force Awakens' problems. The film has a lot more plotholes and errors but what this guy said is good enough to make people realize just how flawed this movie is.
>1. Needless lack of originality JJ. He had the Animated series, dozens of video games fan made videos and fan fic's to read up on. He could borrow best bit of the plots to make something really good. But no he poops his pants for no reason.
>2. No animal farm development of the original characters. Did authority effect idealistic Leia and did she do her training? Did being a galactic hero desk job effect Han or did he become like Che Guevara? Did Lando already a slimy guy become completely corrupt once empowered? Did chewy get married and settle down?How did rebuilding the Jedi go with Luke could they easily reintegrate after the Vaders rein of terror? Nope basically nothing happened Leia stayed a general Lando disappears Han despite having access to millions in bribes and kickbacks in reconstruction decided to be a smuggler. Luke in 30 years only managed train a couple a Jedi. Emo Vader went nuts and killed them all he ran away and let a maniac destroy his work.
>3. What happened with the remnants of the empire? Did they fight on like the diehard Japanese, turn to terrorism like KKK after the civil war or get reformed?
>4. Then the new characters are mostly static. Poe already a fighter pilot hero and good guy. Finn joins the good guys with no explanation or torn feelings no interaction with storm trooper or discipline of a person who had lived a regimented military life from birth. Rey perfect at everything able to survive alone despite having no parents schooling or even a gang to support her.
>5. No explanation of the bad guys or why they are bad and what are they doing. They look like Nazi so they must be bad. Kylo Ren Basically a maladjusted school shooter. And the idiotic lazy Death Star 3.0.
It was the beginning of a proposed trilogy, Some of these questions might be answered in the next film.
The problem with the prequels isn't that they didn't answer absolutely everything. It's not possible to do that with everything when creating a fictional universe or expanding upon one. The problem with the prequels was that the basic narrative functions of the movie made no sense due to constant omissions, plot hole or things that made no sense given what the narrative was striving for.
There are probably a few unintentional errors we can find in TFA but the story accomplishes what it was attempting to do. It has narrative coherence where the prequels had mind numbing dumbness. Finding out that scene 3B of TFA had the wrong lighting on Chewbacca's balls wont save the pathetic childhood you had with the prequels.
Henry Allen
>having all that in a Star Wars movie
Yes hand Disney your 500 page script and see what happens.
Gavin Morales
Take a look at this cuck.
Caleb Kelly
>needless lack if originality I can agree with this from a fan perspective but after all the negativity the prequels got, I can understand why JJ played it safe. I'm also sure that he had executives and committees breathing down his neck at every little thing. They seem to have somewhat adapted the Jason Solo thing, so I can more or less excuse the lack of originality when considering all this, but the only thing that really bugs me is the Starkiller base.
>no development of the original characters Let's be honest, because it's so far in the future there wasn't much you could do with the characters because the actors are too old. If they had too much development the general audience would just be confused so they gave them what little development they could through Kylo Ren's betrayal, forcing specifically Han and Leia apart which drives them to just take up most of their time to do things they are already good at, and Luke becomes a recluse similar to how master yoda does after the fall of the jedi in the prequels. Ultimately as characters, they will become irrelevant considering the fact that they're there to help pass the torch because for all intents and purposes, the movie is a soft reboot.
>what happens with the remnants of the Empire I agree that this movie definitely could've established the first order better and what exactly happened to the empire after its defeat. Some throwaway line of expository dialogue would've sufficed.
Dylan Johnson
Pt 2. >new characters are more or less static I can agree with this too somewhat, Finn was the only one that got real development, Rey sort of did with her latching on to Han as a father figure and losing him. Finn learns to stand up to the first order, because it's obvious at the start of the film he wanted to distance himself from them as much as possible but because he cares about Rey as a friend he chooses to conquer his fears and go fight to try and save her. Rey is an independent person who survived on a desert planet by herself by being a scrap collector for a junk dealer, it's safe to say that she's smart and capable. I always thought that Rey inadvertently learned from Kylo Ren when he tried to probe her mind, and considering she resisted him and probed his instead, she is probably very naturally gifted with the force like Luke was in a new hope and empire. Poe kicks things off, but you're right he was mostly gone for the entire movie, which I don't really mind because tell elaborate on his character more in the coming movies.
>we have no idea who these bad guys are This just ties in with point three, but to help illustrate that they're bad, they murder a entire village on Jakku and fire a beam from the starkiller to destroy five whole planets. They could've used better setup as to who they were but ultimately it was ok because it worked in the context of the movie.
Overall I'd say it's actually a better star wars sequel than RotJ, because characters have things to do and the entire middle of the movie isn't hanging out with ewoks while the plot doesn't move forward. It was an ok movie and it served it's purpose in soft rebooting a franchise many thought no one would ever go back to.
Ayden Murphy
On its own terms, The Force Awakens was competent. That's where my praise ends. As a sequel to the Original Trilogy, it's a massive disappointment. It undermines and resets almost everything achieved in the first three films, just to condense it and do it less effectively. Rey is a terribly written and acted character. Finn is a waste of potential and borderline racist caricature. The set piece on Han Solo's smuggling ship was prequel level bad. And John Williams turned in what is easily his weakest score for a SW film to date. But worst of all, Disney will learn all the wrong lessons because this rehash made $2+ billion.
Charles Morgan
This. People want to take TFA apart like others did with the prequels but even though it's got its flaws, it's still a tighter story than the entire trilogy that was bungled by Lucas and his team.
Caleb Flores
>Finn is a waste of potential and borderline racist caricature.
What was racist about him? I mean I love Lando as a character, but he seemed far more like a caricature than basic Finn.
Dylan Gutierrez
Considering it's a word for almost word rehash of ANH, I can't really say Jew Jew and Disney did better than the prequels
Other than, you know, ANH is better than the prequels
The next move is going to be a TESB rehash, and it too will be better than the prequels because TESB is better
Thomas Myers
>It was an ok movie and it served it's purpose in soft rebooting a franchise
It done a good job at soft rebooting the franchise but such a reboot should have came from an anthology film rather than part of the main saga.
Liam Myers
>I can't enjoy a story if it doesn't make me, personally, feel clever and smarter than the 'common' people. If I have seen something done once before I can't help but worry if I'm just a normal person and not a precious and rare auteur. Because I spend so much time idly consuming media I must insist that I do this as a practiced genius, in order to retain my self-worth from my unused education.
Nicholas Brooks
Eh, he's got some valid points but the editing and jokes made me not want to watch the video. It's also pretty clear he's got a bias. Competently made video, but not one I'd watch again because of the jokes. It's just not funny.
Hunter Brooks
Sounds like Sup Forums made
Jace Myers
Did anyone else prefer TFA the second time around? I watched it again last week and overall enjoyed it more. I don't know if already understanding what happens made it feel less 'rushed' like in the first viewing.
Oliver Garcia
Yes I rewatched it recently as well. I like it slightly more but the flaws with plot are still glaring.
Kayden Nguyen
Well that's an executive's decision anyways and we all know it. People tend to forget star wars has always been there to make money, and now it has moreso than ever because a giant company like Disney bought it. This means references, callbacks, needless tweaking of plot details, all to appeal to the fans and get them to buy more and more. Again, star wars has and ways been a product, but it's more of a product than it ever has been.
Angel Foster
A disturbance of kinetic radio waves?
Bentley Long
I think he touches on the important points, however he gets it across
remake (close enough to be plagiarism IMO) Mary Sue Odd design choices (Snoke as a Peter Jackson CGI monster is pretty much spot on; no explanation of the First Order and the state of the galaxy)
Michael Butler
>explanation of the First Order and the state of the galaxy
DUDE STAR WARS SHOULD BE A DOCUMENTARY ABOUT SPACE POLITICS
Henry Bailey
O, and fucking Leia ignoring Chewbacca when Han died.
I have no reason why they focused on Rey here. It's not like she knew him and Leia at all.
Camden White
I actually felt this as well, the first time I went to see it in theaters I honestly didn't feel anything because I was sitting there just analyzing the movie and not really allowing myself to become invested. The second time I saw it, I relaxed and really let myself be taken away for the ride.
Nathan Bell
But that's just it. He touches on points we all have recognized although some like the Mary sue thing are a little bit debatable. Anyways he doesn't bring anything new to the table other than horrendous jokes. That's why I wouldn't watch it again tbqh
Kevin Jackson
Kek
Colton Green
Not really
It just needs to explain why The First Order are arguably far more powerful than The Galactic Empire in ANH.
At least we got some info in ANH with Tarkin and the other Imperial military bigwigs, no matter how small; we knew that they were the big guys
The First Order aren't said to be the big guys, even though they're more powerful than the GE by spades
It nullifies the entire OT and makes them moot if killing Sheev means whatever group splinters off from the GE is even more powerful than it; Sheev took 6 movies to get beaten, and it took the entire galaxy to do it.
Now, that's all for nothing.
It should have been about starting up Jedi and shit with no super bad we'retotallynottheempirebutaremorepowerful as the main villains for it to be consistent
Sheev has been totally negated, even though he was the BIG BAD FOREVER AND EVER
Andrew Perry
Finn was the token black guy; he was more or less the comic relief of the film. In my opinion, what made it pretty overtly an attempt at a stereotypical black character was forcing Boyega to do the American accent. It just makes him seem whacky and allows him to have that tambour and tone you normally associate with the funny black dude.
Brandon James
The First Order thing just puts the galaxy in the same state it was before the end of the original trilogy, which like you say, makes their story entirely pointless.
Alexander Rivera
What gives you the impression that the First order is more powerful? Because they have a bigger gun? I never got the impression that the first order was in control of the galaxy, just that they were fighting for it.
Also a movie about starting up the jedi with no big bad wouldn't have worked as a space adventure film because then you have the exact same problem the Phantom Menace had. Just some jedi wandering around with no clear purpose.
Hudson Campbell
>I counter pretentiousness with more pretentiousness
Listen buddy, I realize not everyone can create something 100% original, nor do I expect to see that when I walk into a theatre or pop in a DVD. But when you're giving me a near mirror image of a movie I've already seen in the same series, then you can expect me to have some complaints.
Nicholas Sanchez
>he was the token black guy What? He never once felt this way. Yeah he had silly moments but in no way did it ever feel forced or racially motivated. Just compare his character to leslie jones'in the ghostbusters reboot. Tell me which feels more token after that.
Josiah Williams
I agree with the lack of originality but these aren't plot holes. Why do people need an explanation for every single thing? Why do they expect it all to be explained in the first movies. It would literally be impossible to fit all that shit in.
Also, the villains in star wars were always inherently bad. Do we seriously need a morally grey empire?
Charles Wood
Exactly
Big gun tends to be it
Starkiller could have cleared out the galaxy if not for the typical HEROESHAVETOSAVETHEDAYBYEXPLOITINGAWEAKNESSTOSHOWTHATTHEY'REWEAKERBUTSMARTER
They arguably have the galaxy hostage, and they could make any demand they want
The Empire just toasted one planet and held what the Republic had; The First Order effectively own the galaxy
Then, Snoke doesn't even care that The Starkiller was blown up, which shows you that he's at least on the level of Sheev
If done right, a Jedi academy movie with some Imperial remnants causing trouble would have been more consistent with the lore of the previous 6 movies, and it can be a good movie all the same.
Noah Murphy
I don't know man, I just couldn't shake this feeling of it. You tell me, do you think they would have written Finn the way he was if he wasn't black? Go through any scene with him and think to yourself "how would this be different if he was white?"
Again, this is just my perception. I could be wrong, but a few of my friends as well as myself share this view.
Jordan Rogers
I agree with a lot of points, but the villains in Star Wars were never particularly fleshed out. They want to rule the galaxy. The end. They could tell us a little more, but I think that has to be more about fleshing out Snoke, who they portray as some important guy with a plan but never really hint at it.
Kylo Ren has plenty of 'explanation' as of now. No we don't know his whole backstory, but we know enough that it's fine if they want to do a bigger reveal later on. He's not the main character, and he doesn't need for us to know everything about him immediately. Not when he's still clearly going to grow in the next movies. And I think it's too early to label him a school shooter because it's pretty clear that there will be some twist related to that massacre. Why be so vague about it otherwise.
The mystery box fiasco more applies to Rey. She's such a dull character that the only thing people care about is who stuck their dick in who to make her. I truly think her mystery background was one of the big things that ruined her character.
Parker Adams
>No animal farm development of the original characters.
I like this idea, just because it's so pointless for characters to be the same people from 30 years ago, yet try to fit in a story where their old roles don't work with the new young roles.
In fact, it would be like if arnie came back to do a conan movie, but he wasn't king conan. He was still conan the barbarian from the first movie.
Dylan Lewis
Finn was a red herring and comic relief. He has a runaway slave narrative and plus he was a janitor. Scenes of Rey doing something amazing were often contrasted with Finn's incompetence. Flight is his natural reaction, out of line for someone trained since birth as military personnel. He's only a few shades from Jar Jar Binks.
Wyatt Young
I wouldn't say they have the galaxy hostage, they don't even feel like some giant, all encompassing force like the empire was. They just feel like a radical group that has held to past beliefs and has a lot of military force.
As for the movie, it could work as a standalone, like if it was part of the anthology. But keep in mind they're doing this for a trilogy and that premise doesn't sound strong enough for three films. Plus I'm sure Disney doesn't want to associate with he prequels in any way so actually showing a jedi order would probably be too far for them.
Matthew Stewart
I really can't say I feel this way at all, sorry man. I keep thinking of black stereotypes and how a token black person is written and he just didn't feel that way. I'll have to rewatch it again but I've seen it twice and both times I never really picked up on that sort of thing.
Come on, this is a little over the top in analysis of his character, especially because it's a universe where being black doesn't matter. It sounds like an SJW wrote your analysis tbqh
Austin Bailey
Why do people who defend TFA bring up the prequels when they weren't mentioned, or even relevant? Your post sounds like OP implied the prequels were better and calling for a direct comparison.
>It has narrative coherence where the prequels had mind numbing dumbness.
Actually it doesn't compared to good movies. It just has more narrative coherence than the prequels, which isn't saying much.
>Finding out that scene 3B of TFA had the wrong lighting on Chewbacca's balls wont save the pathetic childhood you had with the prequels.
This is absolutely nothing like the OP's examples. OP was talking about big concepts that the movie needs to make sense, but more importantly give the audience a reason to care.
Thomas Bailey
This, to be perfectly honest with you. This is the psychology behind overly picky fandoms
Jaxson Watson
Calling out people for being pretentious is not pretentious. I'm sorry someone called you out for being an idiot who doesn't get subtext or understand characters
Carter Stewart
I did, about a month after the first watch. There's lots to criticize about it, but you can criticize just the same RotJ and it doesnt stop it from being a good show and a fitting ending to a trilogy. Likewise, TFA, flaws and all, does a great job at being a new star wars adventure, well paced and ultimately rewarding at the end
I didnt like most of the character progression and dialogues, but personally I"ve never thought of SW as a example of good character writing.
(I appreciated more the second time amount a bit of a creccendo in the progression of the last bit-- from Han's death, to Rey's fight, to briefly mourning Han, and finally Luke's appearance. The score takes you straight from one thing to the other, and when the credits roll right after Luke showing up, you can finally take a deep breath)
Brandon Allen
I do think they introduced and tried to focus on too many characters at once
like Poe is a cool character and all but he kinda just stole time that could've been used for more important things like properly cementing Rey and Finn's background and motives
same with the returning characters yeah the fan service draws people in I get it but they could've easily cut some of those scenes down
Wyatt Perry
I've have talked to at least 4 people on person, and dozens online. When pressed to explain why TFA is good, the only answer I've received is "it had to undo the terrible prequels. It was a refreshing plunge into a new trilogy and set up the universe for the sequels to expand on."
Pathetic.
Dominic Gutierrez
>waffle
He doesn't realise it's purely designed for unintelligent children (mostly really stupid Americans) to watch and then buy toys.
Grow up, you cunt.
Angel Turner
>Pathetic Why? Because you disagree with them? The movie isn't deserving of hate, they did a fine job with it. It was fun and well paced, had great action and characters that I got emotionally invested in. I think the only reason people bring up the prequels is because of our perspective that they're totally comparable because they're star wars movies in the main series that either are or will be a trilogy. Also what they did with this movie is a direct result of all the negativity the prequels got so it's perfectly fair to bring them up when critiquing this movie.
Honestly you sound like the type of person this user was making fun of
Isaiah Cox
> mostly stupid americans I'd say that hollywood blockbusters are aiming more for the chinese market now
Charles Nguyen
>Why do people who defend TFA bring up the prequels when they weren't mentioned, or even relevant?
Have you been here for very long? Asshurt kids that grew up with the prequels are the only ones who care TFA exists here.
Josiah Walker
>What gives you the impression that the First order is more powerful? Because they have a bigger gun? I never got the impression that the first order was in control of the galaxy, just that they were fighting for it.
Why is the movie so vague that we have to go by personal impressions? It shouldn't be up for argument.
We don't know how strong the first order is or what they control. What's baffling is they don't seem to have a fleet, but they have a planet size death star that they kept secret while any storm trooper janitor could spill the beans. Logistics are just totally out the window.
We don't know how strong the resistance is or what they control. They appear to be working for the dominant government, the new republic, which should be massive. But they appear small as fuck, again no fleet, and all we see are a bunch of small fighters.
The first order is shown to be a superior force, yet the new republic is shown to control more. Was the first order letting them win? Why doesn't the new republic have a decent defense? What the fuck is going on?
Brayden Turner
I feel stupid for not seeing it earlier, thanks senpai
Benjamin Butler
All of that is explained outside of the movie in some new novels but because it's irrelevant to the movie itself I won't explain it. I never disagreed with the fact the TFA messed that part up. It did leave me feeling a bit confused as to what the state if the galaxy was, I'm sure it left many others that way too.
Jason Campbell
>Let me explain why TFA is great >Criticizes the prequels for no reason Fuck off
Aiden Jones
They're fair to compare considering they're all main series star wars films senpai
Alexander Johnson
Over the top? It's kind of constantly in your face. Even harder to ignore with Mary Sue around and when you realize the OT was much more balanced with its handling of characters.
Alexander Brooks
>It did leave me feeling a bit confused as to what the state if the galaxy was, I'm sure it left many others that way too.
Which is baffling because there's only two logical ways to handle this shit
1) Make the movies for existing fans, assume the audience has seen the prior installments so you can move on instead of explaining shit
2) Make the movies for new audience members. Clean slate everything and reexplain everything so no one is lost, even if you waste the time of existing fans doing so.
What we got was neither. They dropped us in a new and different status quo that fans don't know shit about, then they didn't explain it to anyone. Most of the questions about TFA asked by people who had never seen star wars, I had no answer for. I was just as confused as they were.
All while the original star wars was successful precisely because it kept things straightforward and presented things in a self-explanatory way. Just like a fairy tale. Which science fiction at the time was notoriously horrible at. It's what turned people off the genre.
Jose Carter
It's not about fairness, its about the lack of a point
Every movie is great compared to the prequels. But most movies are shit. It's meaningless to point out what the prequels did worse.
Jason Moore
Not when TFA manchildren use the prequels as a way to justify their shitty movie for no fucking reason
Julian Watson
Look pal, you can say it's in your face the whole time but that won't make me believe you. I've seen the film a couple of times and I never picked up on this once, which is why I said it sounds like an SJW wrote your analysis because it forms a narrative that isn't there. You think Abrams and Hollywood execs are dumb enough to get negative press by associating a character with racial stereotypes? Also the OT was definitely more balanced because it had less characters to focus on. In this trilogy you still have to give screen time to the old characters that carried over.
Bentley Gonzalez
Yeah I agree that the user who made the original post didn't really need to bring the prequels up, no one was talking about them.
Calm down, man.
Lucas Long
...
Juan Hill
?
Elijah Campbell
We all know you love TFA and desperately want others to join your bandwagon, reddit. :^)
Daniel Baker
Oh you're just shitposting, nevermind.
Kevin Flores
It makes me so happy that people are finally seeing through this flimsy piece of shit movie.
Alexander Gonzalez
I don't think you get what the guy was saying. Let me break down this comment, that he was replying to, paragraph by paragraph Paragraph 1: >It's okay if the movie doesn't stand on its own! After all, Disney will make the sequels anyway, so it's fine if you have to wait 3 years for the basic character motivations to be setup
Paragraph 2: >See, in the Prequels, we didn't care about questions like the ones left in TFA, because there were bigger issues like massive plotholes and characters acting one way or another really no narrative setup
Paragraph 3: >See, by comparison, TFA might have had issues, but nothing as glaring as the prequels, and it does everything it's trying to do, which is give you a rollercoaster ride and makes sense within its own rules
Does that sound fair? Because really all that those three say together is: >It's okay to make most of the story's basics an I.O.U. if you super duper promise you probably will address it in 2-3 years >The Prequels are bad >TFA isn't as bad
Nothing outside of the first paragraph says anything in defence of TFA that could be considered an argument, and even if we pretend like that bullshit should be allowed to fly, and it isn't effectively the Hollywood equivilent of what gaming has had with DLCs and Micro-transactions where you're enticed by a half-done product and you're obligated to pay of the rest to get the complete experience of the original product you already paid for, Even if we pretend all that is fine, doesn't help the fact that the third paragraph is bullshit, because it pretends like TFA has no "mind numbing dumbness" with characters changing motivation on a whim or massive plotholes "like the prequels had", despite as obvious things as >Why the fuck is it that the First Order had the bigger part of the map, knew which part of the galaxy the rest of the map would have to be of, but they didn't bother to send out fucking probes to look for Luke like we know they could from ESB?
Jonathan Campbell
>They dropped us in a new and different status quo that fans don't know shit about, then they didn't explain it to anyone. Exactly. Since when does a lightsaber give someone a vision of the past?
Oh right because Rey is a Mary Sue or she is a reincarnation of a million year old girl that was killed by an evil boy millions of years ago (a supposed leak for episode 8 backstory).
Carter Green
It's almost like the character is indistinguishable from the casting and performance.
And yes it would have been strange if they cast a white guy and gave him black mannerisms.
Jacob Hughes
No, because their argument for it being good is that it isn't something else they dislike. And "it sets up future movies" means it's a bad Jobie by itself.
Disney could have done literally anything and made 2 billion dollars, and yet they released a movie that is "not as bad as the prequels and the characters will be really good in the next one"
It's pathetic that people praise it for this.
Colton Murphy
>It has narrative coherence where the prequels had mind numbing dumbness. Bullshit. The film tried really hard to cram everything new in and ended up making it worse. They left too many questions unanswered that they tried to cover that in the novel. TPM and ANH did a far better job setting up a story.
Angel Perez
>You tell me, do you think they would have written Finn the way he was if he wasn't black? Go through any scene with him and think to yourself "how would this be different if he was white?"
I think it would be the same. JJ has no idea how to write characters, black or white.
Jonathan Williams
Since when does the force do literally anything the writers decide
Asher Miller
Ok user stop feeling asshurt.
I think TFA had a good story for what it was trying to accomplish, likeable characters, better action, a more understandable villain with real motivation than even the original trilogy. It had a good flow and tone to it. JJ is not a genius director or the greatest storyteller known to man, but I never feel bored with his films, pacing and editing of his films always feels great. There was a lot of great setups for characters I want to see more of. For a second while watching it, I almost had this thing called "fun." I know its reddit to admit you were ever amused by anything mostly made as a commercial to sell toys, but it had more soul and effort than most soulless cash grabs talked about here. Were not talking about art house films or serious science fiction, these are adventure movies with a space backdrop and TFA accomplished that.
Rey was a bit to forced as a hero and she "learned" the force a bit too quick and there was some other things I didn't like about it, but on a whole it was an entertaining movie which was all it was trying to be.
Isaac Young
>He's acting like a stereotypical black dude from 21s century Earth, a long time ago in a Galaxy Far Far Away >This means the writing is well made
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Lando didn't act black at all, did he? He acted like a (spiritually) darker shade of Han, and that was it.
Doesn't it feel strange, that in a Star Wars movie - where so far the closest we ever got to racial/gender stereotypes was that the female lead was an automatic love interest for the male lead - where we have a galaxy full of amazingly numerous species and cultures and all this, suddenly we have a stereotypical black guy coming out of the brainwashed legions of the new Empire?
Ian Smith
>I think TFA had a good story for what it was trying to accomplish
You mean retelling A New Hope?
Christopher Harris
It's ironic that "it sets up future movies" and "its better than the prequels" are the top go-to defenses for TFA. Because that first one is the exact excuse made for the phantom menace. It was ok that the phantom menace was bad, because everyone knew star wars needed 2 and 3 movies to start being good. "The adventure has to start somewhere".
If TFA fans really understood what was wrong with the prequels, they would stop making the same mistakes star wars fans made in 1999.
Jacob White
You can't be fucking serious, I refuse to believe this post is real.
>pacing and editing of his films always feels great
holy shit
>likeable characters, a more understandable villain with real motivation than even the original trilogy
HOLY SHIT
Gabriel Roberts
If they made a new Conan movie where Conan gets his throne wrongfully usurped and he had to get it back that would literally be the perfect plot.
Nolan Lewis
I appreciate the time you took to type this out but it was in service to a point I wasn't even addressing. All I was saying was that in general it's fair to compare TFA and the prequels
Anthony Collins
>Exactly. Since when does a lightsaber give someone a vision of the past?
Well I mainly meant the whole first order / resistance fiasco
The lightsaber was basically the cave on degobah. Does it make as much sense as a magic swamp? Probably not. But I only criticize shit that general audiences care about, not minor inconsistencies star wars fans can spurge about. If star wars was star trek, I wouldn't care about it. I'd also be fine with them breaking the internal rules of the fiction if it made the movie better, but every time they broke the rules, it just made it worse.
Dominic Robinson
>I think TFA had a good story for what it was trying to accomplish, likeable characters, better action, a more understandable villain with real motivation than even the original trilogy. Stopped reading there. But to be fair the flying action scenes were among the best out of franchise.
Gabriel Smith
>I think TFA had a good story Of course, it used A New Hope's story!
>likeable characters Apart from the original three old actors, I almost immediately forgot about the new three since neither of them left any lasting impression. Their acting was often wooden and bland, especially Daisy, and the only character that had development was the black janitor. Other than that it's forgettable garbage.
>better action Abrams' quick pace style is one of the reasons why modern blockbusters is killing cinema and Hollywood. Millennials can't except anything other than le quick action packed adventures! xD
>more understandable villain with real motivation than even the original trilogy Because he had a giant boner for the actual best villain of the original trilogy
Joshua Miller
Tell me where I triggered you specifically.
Most film sequels try to copy what worked the first time. I didn't particularly like the whole Star Killer base aspect of the movie, but the rest was different enough that it made a promising start to the story.
Charles Wood
>except accept*
Josiah Wood
I've honestly never heard anyone use that defense as a reason for why they LIKED it. Just as a defense for why it works better as a movie than, say, the Phantom Menace. Besides I already told you why I liked it here
Joseph Wright
>1. Needless lack of originality JJ. >wants him to borrow from already existing content
William Jackson
>Most film sequels try to copy what worked the first time. They try to recapture what made the first movie work in the first place, not copy the actual movie, you dingbat
>I didn't particularly like the whole Star Killer base aspect of the movie Well I'm glad. It was a pointless subplot that came out of nowhere
>but the rest was different enough that it made a promising start to the story. You're making zero effort to persuade others
Dominic Turner
The Force Awakens has some of the worst pacing and editing I have ever seen in a film. It felt like a 90 minute action flick with no character development at all.
Jackson King
Yeah but the throne is his problem/conflict, king conan as a character is a far cry from conan the barbarian. He has shouldered massive responsibility, and has all the wisdom from the lessons learned from the movies that didn't get made. So he can't be the conan you knew decades ago. There has to be unmistakable development.
Landon Jackson
>a more understandable villain with real motivation than even the original trilogy. Seriously? Okay what is Kylo and Snoke's motivation?
Yes I know they want to conquer the galaxies but why? What do they want in the end?
Anakin wanted to save Padme from dying in Episode 3 so it made perfect sense why he joined Sheev.
But Snoke to me is just a bland rip off villain. Yes I agree the next film will explain more to us... but WHY should we as Star Wars fans have to wait 2 years to get answers?
No other Star Wars story has ever left us confused. All other 6 SW films are literal standalones with conclusions whilst JJ's Force Awakens is riddled with so many unanswered questions.
Cooper Smith
>Yes I agree the next film will explain more to us... but WHY should we as Star Wars fans have to wait 2 years to get answers? Lazy screenwriting
Isaiah Flores
>>better action >Abrams' quick pace style is one of the reasons why modern blockbusters is killing cinema and Hollywood. Millennials can't except anything other than le quick action packed adventures! xD
I've already addressed or cant really state much about the other things you commented on, if you don't like what I don't like that is ok. I'll state for the record though that my favorite scene in any Star War's film is the Mos Eisley Cantina scene, I like when a movie lets the universe it's creating just breath and we get exposition and plot details in a natural setting in an organic way.
It's easy to blame "the kids today" for the current state of film, but a common criticism of the older Star Wars movies from critics at the time was that it was too slow paced, too sentimental, to epic fantasy for a real adventure story. The climate and context of movies we have today is because older generations reacted to things and studios and directors tried to pander in turn. So given the context of movies we have coming out now, I think JJ is good at making films with that kind of action oriented storytelling in mind.
Asher Evans
>But to be fair the flying action scenes were among the best out of franchise.
It's kind of like saying the prequels had better lightsaber action scenes. I say kind of because the prequel action was tasteless, whereas TFA mostly knew what it was doing. I say mostly because the 3 second death star trench run was asinine and visually incomprehensible. Also x-wings vs tie fighters can only have so much variety.
If we aren't sure, or we don't care, what's going on, the spectacle is meaningless.
Ethan Myers
>All other 6 SW films are literal standalones with conclusions whilst JJ's Force Awakens is riddled with so many unanswered questions. And you know what's more ironic? Fans criticized George Lucas's writing for years, but now JJ Abrams topped George Lucas.
Landon Sanders
Can someone tell me why JJ cut out this deleted scene which helped show Finn slowly rejecting the empire?
Finn is confronted with a choice to shoot a women but he decides to let them run free.
THIS is a good scene, leading up to Finn taking off his helmet and realizing that him saving a life felt good rather than killing lots of lives.
Yet JJ fucking cut this small bit out for some strange reason.
>"Nah rather someone rubbing blood on Finn's helmet is good enough"
Jacob Cox
Please. Just watch all of JJ Abrams's movies and see how ridiculous his action scenes are, even the more dramatic moments where he amps up the quickness, resulting in botched character development. TFA suffers from this same shit.
Jace Sanchez
>Fans criticized George Lucas's writing for years But why? Apart from Jar Jar and some of the acting, all the politics and prequel backstory is perfect. I love the Attack of the Clones script. If Lucas had someone to help him direct the actors and a better CGI team or perhaps he used less CGI (it annoys me how the Dooku fight is done in a CGI room when Lucas couldt have filmed it in anyway darkly lit practical set and it would have been so much better on screen) then AoTC would be a far better film than what we got.
Charles Rodriguez
>I've honestly never heard anyone use that defense as a reason for why they LIKED it.
Well now that I think about it, no one outright says the liked TFA anymore. Yet they still feel the need to defend it and remind everyone the prequels are worse.
>Just as a defense for why it works better as a movie than, say, the Phantom Menace.
By "it" you mean that the 2nd and 3rd movies are going to be supplemental material that will improve our memory of the first movie and save this trilogy? That's not working better than the phantom menace, that literally is the phantom menace. Neither films stand on their own, and I'd bet a lot of money the TFA won't stand with the coming sequels either.
