Conservatism is a disease

conservatism is a disease

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humanity is a disease.

So is Socialism and Communism.

no socialism is the perfect final stage of society

you've got some explaining to do then. Socialism has never worked and it never will work.

Sup Forums is a disease

True

actually marx said communism was the final stage, which came after socialism

socialism was supposed to prepare society for communism

how do you know?

nah, a fair portion of humanity is just plain old retarded...it's truly unfortunate

Comrade!!

Because socialism would only work in a society without greed, where people would actually take their fair share. Giving the government hegemonic control over society ultimately leads to dictatorship. And in a world without greed and corruption, socialism would be unnecessary anyway.

Comrade! My name is Alexei Stakhanov and I dig cabbage for the good of the glorious union of the working people! LONG LIVE PAPA STALIN

See, socialism isn't very practical. Sure it sounds nice, but it sorta just falls apart because nobody can think things through enough. Take power production for example, there is a lot of stuff happening that enables you to flip a switch and light to come on. Nobody, and I mean not one single person knows how all of it works. Sure, some group out there might collectively know a shit ton about it, but even those groups have gaps in understanding and knowledge. Now somebody comes in says we gonna socialise power production and if enough people say fuck it and leave, or let's be honest here, get killed, that entire fucking system starts to degrade. And people say fuck you because socialism as a concept is a lie. You take from one group to benefit another, most of the time, it's not voluntary.

>Hates conservatism
>is a communist
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
THE RETARDATION
This is the same dude who cries about how Trump is evil and will get impeach while supporting antifa. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA not even surprised to be honest

Image relevant
Gtfo try harder
Sage

Lets be real you fags arent willing to kill millions to get a communism govt.

...

>conservatism is a disease
Then everything is permissible. Raping children? Forcing women into sexual slavery? Cannibalism? Social norms are by their very nature conservative and without those there are no morals.

Advanced A.I. is a virus

Oh look that stupid old argument again.

The motivation for nearly everyone will always be greed, socialism doesn't try to deny that, instead it makes fulfilment of greed a meritocratic matter.

If you're good enough to advance, you get more shit/currency/respect/power, if you aren't talented, dedicated, or intelligent, you don't get anywhere, and remain a fucking beet farmer.

Your place in a socialist society is entirely determined by your ability to do whatever you have to do, it's no different than being an entrepreneur in a capitalist society. You just can't really inherit power or social standing. It's meritocracy vs plutocracy, not selflessness vs greed.

Nepotism, greed, bribery, and meritocracy all exist within socialism too you fuckin' balloon.

>protip
>don't base your worldview on shallow, simplified arguments you remember from your senior year of highschool

This retard.....the only socialism that works is national socialism

A.I. is on our side

>determined by whatever it is you have to do
That's why socialism always leads to a authoritarian govt. In order for you to get higher up you need to put other people down.

If socialism is so great name ONE successful nation with socialism as it's base ideology

exactly, you have to compete and win to succeed.
>thats the same as in a free market boyo

>exactly
You just agreed to it leading to an authoritarian govt
So it's a trash system

but isn't the entire point of socialism to create a classless society?

You act like you and your retarded modern day suburban commies would actually be some kind of high ranking leaders. LOL

Don't tell him that. He hasn't looked too far ahead in his revolution

Nazi germany was able to fight off half of the world, with much more resources and much more funds and buying power for years, they didn't win, but they were a great example while they lasted

The soviet union was able to compete with america and its massive post ww2 economy for decades before falling behind technologically.
If they were able to trade with the western world instead, they would have been fine. The USSR survived for as long as it did because of and despite the cold war. Competition is necessary for advancement.

China is rapidly modernising with a communistic society, due to reasons stated above.

There have been times where socialism was necessary, there will be times when socialism will be necessary again.

There have been times where capitalism was necessary, There will be times when capitalism will be necessary again.

The systems function in basically the same manner, the individuals that would be powerful and wealthy would remain so in the opposite system.

All that matters is that we continue reaching technological milestones, like space travel and genetic engineering, top ensure our future.

There isn't a single genuinely libertarian modern nation on the planet

No, its to make classes meritocratic instead of plutocratic
Humans arent equal

I'm not a communist, also thats not anywhere near what i said. Try to imply less lad, it makes you look fat.

...

Solid argument, little boy.

One day you'll realise half of what I wrote criticises socialism, one day.

No communist society works retard. And what makes you think you dumbass sjw filled retards will somehow make it happen? No one is scared of you guys and you aren't willing to kill to make it happen. How do you think your road to a communist govt will happen? Random protest on the street, leads to govt giving in, you guys install your retarded laws and people will just stand by and let it happen? LOL

What does libertarian have to do with anything? Random

People in the past couldn't make communism work but people like this will apparently

>im not a communist
>a communist revolution will never happen again
>Im not a communist

You are actually retarded to have understood absolutely nothing of what i wrote.

Youre why people think conservatives are stupid.

Libertarianism is the opposite of authoritarianism.
read a book

nobody could make it happen now, let alone those fags.

>having a political opinion different than yours
>automatically a conservative

I'm quite well read actually, and you're quite wrong. Libertarianism is complex and multifaceted whereas authoritarianism is very simple: the guy with the guns makes the rules.

What are you then retard? every argument youve just said is the same bollocks the alt right throw out in their discord server circlejerks.

lol and in capitalism you don't?

Libertarianism is literally the metaphysical belief in free will. You're ascribing geopolitical attributes to it when it literally doesn't have any. You can be a Libertarian Democrat or Republican.

Unless you're conflating the libertarian party with the metaphysical definition of libertarianism.

Me'thinks you might be.

No. You don't. If me and my family sav money to help a friend start a business, we're using capitalist ideology. Unless you think small business loans are evil or some asinine shit.

Just cause something isn't authoritarianism doesn't mean it's libertarian. Lol

>automatically thinks I'm conservative
What a retard

Jesus christ m8 you arent and it isnt.
ill break this down for your tiny mind.


An Authoritarian society is one where fewer individuals hold power, through means of economic dominance, Military control, or political manipulation.

Every modern nation on the planet is Authoritarian in practice, because you cannot maintain rule of law, federal control, societal stability, cultural conservationism, and peaceful transfer of power with a system that directly aims to dismantle them.

Authoritarianism isn't shite, it's necessary for a modern nation to remain stable.
The people in power came into that power because they are capable of achieving it. That authority is what makes nations function, not ideologies.

Classical Liberal

Natsoc babyyyyyy

Gee. One of these seems like a false flag. Wonder which one it is...?

... m8 stop. you aren't allowed to be that retarded.
The values of classical liberalism are nearly perfectly aligned with the values of western conservatism. pls stop.

Congrats you're a socialist.

*reads thread*
*shakes head at sheer lack of education*
*leaves*

The typical "oh national socialism is socialism so there fore leftist" what a retard

Good. Go "RP" like an autistic 15 year-old somewhere else.

leftist=/=agrees with the entire left

National socialism is a leftist ideology. It holds many of the same principles to heart as other socialist or communistic ideologies.

try again.

>aligned with western conservatism
Not necessarily, classical liberalism has more in common with libertarianism, but acknowledges the authority of the state to enforce individual rights.

Conservatism, specifically religious conservatism embraces classical liberal values like free speech because they are politically weak and don't have the power to censor speech.

there is no central perspective on libertarianism, user.

The purpose of conservatism is to maintain the ideals of classical liberalism, by name, definition, and practice.

I'm not him, but do you have a citation for that? Sounds like you're heading into a "No True Scotsman" fallacy by claiming there's no centralized ideas in the movement. By your logic, a black separatist conservative isn't a conservative because White Nationalism has a place in the conservative parties.

Modern liberalism is a disease.

Typical black pilled retard

Libertarianism is a tricky ideology because it focuses on being situational.

Anyone's idea of personal liberty couldn't ever apply to everyone.

For there to be one libertarian mindset, it would disavow the inherent value of individual liberty.

My logic is the inverse of what you think my logic is.
The existence such massively different ideologies that fit into the same general category reinforces my statement.

Hm. Fair enough, I suppose, but growing up in the 80s and 90s, I was originally considered a moderate leftist. These views have been hijacked by other groups to the point that I'm not a Libertarian Centrist. I guarantee you the Libertarian party has common ideals, though. Even if you're speaking of metaphysical libertarianism, there's a binding thread: Free will. If you believe people have autonomy and deserve to make their own decisions to any extent, it's libertarianism.

Now a Libertarian Centrist.*
Google Gboard is a right cunt.

Let me break this down for you, love.

The whole left-right bullshit is entirely situational.

we have to compare ideologies with each other to see where we can fit them in.

In matters of state, economy, and socially (to members of the nation in question), national socialism is definitely well aligned with other socialist ideologies.

hence why we call it national socialism, its socialism but with preference to members of an ethnic/cultural/religious/societal nation, rather than to everyone living in the state.
The Hitler quote clearly reinforces that.

The ideologies we define as leftist will never agree, nor should we expect them too.

Try again.

not to any extent, its libertarianism when individual sovereignty exceeds the power and authority of the state.

We could never even conceive a structure in which we don't have any control over our lives, we will always have some. We arent capable of that.

Except the NATIONAL part and where they rounded up all the actual socialists before anyone else. It's not like the right had been occluding from government and implementing liberal/socialist policies and programs they didn't believe in purely to get popular support for conservative government since after the French Revolution or anything.

>Free will. If you believe people have autonomy and deserve to make their own decisions to any extent, it's libertarianism.


except for the fact that most if not all people they do not really function on, 'free will' and humans cluster more often than think independently (even thinking 'independently' is subject to the information you've previously stored and that can/is influenced whether you're consciously aware of it or not)

a leftist ideology=/=every leftist ideology

Youre explaining my argument to me now.

Youre the first person on this thread to actually understand what it is im getting at, and you didnt even realize that your saying what ive been saying.

Alright. I'll try a similar vein. Authoritarianism and Libertarianism can, CAN, play together some. For instance, you believe every individual has the right to make any decision regardless of all others/authority? That's essentially anarchism, isn't it? But what if you believe a man has a right to poison himself however he wishes (drugs and alcohol) but the moment he gives some to his uneducated, young child, he has overstepped his own freedom by inflicting ng his choice on another not prepared to weigh it. Boom. Some authority needed. It's a spectrum, user. I'm a Libertarian Centrist, as I said, so my views differ from a Libertarian Right/Left. The only thing binding me and them is the belief in AN AMOUNT of free will and choice.

I Just wanted to be a snarkass and didn't read who you were responding to. Really, I didn't expect any more than shit flinging from Sup Forums and assumed. You've restored some of my faith in humanity today, user

...

So you're more authoritarian than libertarian, making me your opposite. What's your point, user? I believe we have autonomy and you believe we're a result of our environment. There's likely grains of truth to both viewpoints.

...

You arent doing yourself any favours by tying yourself down to an ideology.

I agree, but youre missing the point and misusing terms

Authority and liberty will always play together, We will always have leaders to follow, and we will always have free will. The ideologies that aim to prevail one or the other cannot cooperate, you cannot be authoritarian and libertarian, but you can support liberty and authority in any combination. I think thats what you're trying to get at, anyway.

>retarded
>don't pump their 9 year old full of hormones
>don't believe every conspiracy theory
>not even aware of the current year

the biggest cancer is any ideology taken to it's extreme. I'm not even being an edgy alt-centrist, I'm absolutely a partisan myself, but communism is just as cancer as fascism and anarchism.

The only true cancer is adhering to any ideology.

/pol

PLEASE

shit you're right, i've been writing 2016 on my checks for MONTHS.

thanks bro

Basically. So why are you telling other user his definition of this admittedly subjective view is incorrect? Those who identify as a label determine the label's meaning.

The individual doesn't determine the label of their perspective to others, only to themselves.

The group of people that share that perspective determine the ideology and its label, not its outliers.

The other user was tying himself to an ideology that didn't represent his ideas, and he didn't understand.

We as a group defined them, and they are subjective to the majority of individuals. user was a minority confusing the definitions/terminology.

Fair enough, I suppose. Where do you fall, though? And we have to agree, definitions change over time due to colloquialism and dialects. Feminist today means something different in most of the collective consciousness than it did in the 50s. Same for Libertarianism, Socialism, Fascism and many others. I just think it's hard to tell anyone they're not part of a movement because they have differing views from some or even the majority of their peers. It's the centralized definition agreed upon by the group as a whole, and outsiders that matters.

I don't fall anywhere, I firmly hold that any rooted convictions prevent us from being adaptable.

My arguments stem from my understanding of the world and human nature, and I don't see a point in collapsing that inward into one ideology, when instead I could take bits and pieces from every perspective.

For half of the thread people thought I was a communist for pointing out the value in a social structure that places value in meritocracy.

My only real concern is getting humanity to the next major technological breakthrough to cut away most of our major problems and ensure out future through space travel and gene manipulation, to spread us out across multiple planets and put ourselves in direct control over our evolution. Sort of how agriculture allowed us to develop complicated societal structures, directed evolution will allow us to rid ourselves of several of our biological hangups, and then evolve us millions of years in the span of thousands of years.

More or less, I don't care about that shite because we're too close to reaching that milestone. I'm not about to dedicate my life to being a stone age hunter while Sumeria is taking shape next door.

So. There is currently world-wide civil unrest as a result of identity politics and labeling every enemy as some horrible descriptor to discredit them...So your solution to not dealing with the current geopolitical climate is to just side-step the issues and not play ball? Man. I get where you're coming from, but bullshit. Philosophy, Sociology and Politics have ensured that nearly any school of thought/belief has a label for ease of identification and expediency of dialogue. We'll never become space farers if the Conservatives nuke the Socialists who call on the Communists to give aide against the Capitalists ad infinitum. To get to those goals, we need to cohere, which is impossible without dialogue.

Obviously he was referring to the political philosophy of libertarianism since this is a political thread
>durr did u guys know that libertarianism is also used to refer to a metaphysical belief in free will
nobody cares, pseud

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

I'm currently engaged in productive dialogue with someone else, but I'll be happy to entertaining n your grievances. So, firstly, where do you think Libertarian political movement came from? You find it a coincidence they're both for freedom of the individual, do you?

Entertain*
The libertarian...*
Google sucks at autocorrect for me for some reason.

...

we have never agreed, we have never cohered, we have never communicated.

All of our advancements were the result of conflict and competition.

We don't have to cooperate, all we have to do is ride the coattails of whoever leads the breakthrough.

agriculture
mettalurgy
literacy
gunpowder
medicine and scientific study
industrialism
mechanised locomotion
nuclear technology
globalised public information
space travel

each one of these was the result of ideas developed during a conflict, or a breakthrough manufactured to win a conflict.

We're used to almost dying.

Yes, I agree that we are more likely to destroy ourselves now than ever before, we have the means now to destroy the earth in nuclear hell-fire, which is new.
The difference is that none of us want the worst case scenario.

This is the first crossroad where we could either exterminate ourselves, or basically remove the likelihood of that entirely.

The worlds greatest minds are leading us down the right path, they aren't squabbling like the rest of us, as long as we maintain their guidance and authority, we will survive this transition.

Lenin was pretty based though

Libertarian political philosophies have nothing to do with the definition of 'libertarianism' in metaphysics. Just because the two ideas share a name doesn't mean that the political philosophy can be boiled down to 'believing in free will vs. metaphysical determinism'

Edgy, long-winded, baseless, and meaningless

No offense, but how the fuck can you believe that? You honestly think The Libertarian Party just HAPPENS to have the same name and philosophy as the metaphysical idea? Bullshit.
lp.org/faq/
It's not a fucking accident they have the same name. The Libertarian Party is the political activation of the Libertarian philosophy. It's ABSURDLY obvious.

Sure, we could accidentally solve warping space for travel in an attempt to physically shift bombs or some shit, but I think we've about hit the cap on warfare advancement. The last revolutionary scientific revelation to effect warfare drastically was nuclear fission/fusion. Despite all the scientific advancements we've had since, nothing is comparable to gunpowder or atomic energy. I think you're putting too much faith in the elite and discounting the anarhists/dissidents too easily. All it takes is one clever, god-fearing man with a well-deserved plan to bomb and kill someone he thinks is taking us away from God's plan. How many inventions and advancements have we lost to ideological disagreement already?

>technology is good
>everything will be okayprobably
>humans do violent shit
>we invented things
>thinking thats edgy

Ignore him. I'm the one engaging you in dialogue. I didn't think it was any of that horseshit and we're ideological dissidents. That ought be enough to tell you his motivations.

Also; Checked.

So you think that anyone who believes that free will exists is automatically a libertarian, irrespective of their actual political views? In that case, then what the fuck is the point of the libertarian party? To advance their position on metaphysical determinism? Lmao.

That page mentions nothing about free will, or metaphysics. It mentions plenty about political philosophy, though, which is what libertarianism falls under.

>Libertarians advocate freedom in economic matters, so we’re in favor of lowering and eliminating taxes, slashing bureaucratic regulation of business, and charitable — rather than government — welfare.

Yeah this can totally be boiled down to just "metaphysical determinism is bullshit!" sure

Not what you said:
>technology is an inherent good (source needed)
>advancement in society can only come about through violent competition or crisis (source needed)
>technology is always used the right way and distributed if proven to be beneficial to man (source needed)

LIBERTarians go for FREEDOM in both politics and philosophy. What a strange coincidence! Here. Let me try it this way: Can you be an authoritarian libertarian? If not, why? How was the Libertarian Party established? By who? For what reason?

Space travel isnt the big milestone

The thing that will remove most of our modern issues is directed evolution through gene manipulation.

If every human by 2200 was a genius, with perfect health, and less fixation on confrontation and more respect for differing opinions, our prior human nature wouldn't apply to us.

Being able to decide every trait that we want in our species is a big fucking deal. Its bigger than anything we have ever achieved, and it will completely revolutionise humans. We've been the same throughout all of our prior achievements, this is making us different.

Pic is what we will look like by the year 3000