Is abortion murder?

is abortion murder?

personally, I think it is but I wanna hear Sup Forums's thoughts

Look at it's tiny feet and hands
Of course

Abortion is murder when the organism is capable of sustained motility and reproduction.

So basically as long as it's not a toddler yet you can slide it down the laundry chute and you're fine as far as I'm concerned.

nah killing a few cells isnt murder
its like removing a tumor or something

so killing bugs is also murder?

they're just bugs fam

>sustained motility0

Abortion is murder at every level. A bundle of cells is still a human in some form of development. Killing any life is murder, even plants. To think otherwise is lying to yourself. That said, not only am I all for abortion, but there are groups who should be encouraged to have them--like single moms, parents in shitty financial situations, or if the kid is going to be retarded.

Justifiable homicide. Distinct and different than murder.

not murder
totally fine from a moral standpoint

>MFW people think a bunch of multipotent cells consititutes a living organism

>MFW people think a living organism deserves to live by virtue of being alive.

You fucks realize that's saying "Slavery has a right to exist because otherwise it wouldn't be slavery" yeah?

Probably, yeah. I mean, these same people would be livid as fuck if you gave them an abortion drug and they wanted to have a kid. Probably even call you a murderer.

Abortion in its current form is just a way for people to run away from their consequences. Perhaps sterilization should be offered at the same time to avoid repeat customers.

>reproduction
so anything before puberty?

Who says there's anything wrong with murder?

Might be murder but I'd still be prochoice because there are many situations where pregnancy ruins future parents careers since they need to take care of the kid, or ruin future for the darn kid because not everyone is ready to take responsibility for upcoming ~20 years

I would go with motility or reproduction, rather than and. It wouldnt be murder if I was infertile? heh.

as for ,
I think it is murder. But like you said, it doesn't matter that much cause they're bugs. I think that's what meant, too.

God put a living soul in there. it's funny how idiots believe they didn't murder a baby. if you or your girl aborted you will pay the price in gods eyes you murder your own child. If I could of been there and you decided no you took that life away.

too bad your parents missed on you.

isn't that between them and God?

Way to play devil's advocate you Fuck.

>>reproduction
>so anything before puberty?

Only if they're a shitty lay or cry too much.

I'd say there's no problem with murder so long as it has motivation and steps are taken to prevent undue suffering

Personally, I feel like if it has to be done, like it'll kill one or both of them to die as an example, then it's ok. Or maybe if its a rape baby, not a horrible reason to get rid of it.

If you go around having unprotected sex and just don't want the baby then you deserve to have your ovaries cut out.

and then there's the matter of not being able to support yourself and the baby, that's a hard one for me. If you can carry to term it should be given up for adoption.

>too bad your parents missed on you.

>devil's advocate

Pssh, I can think something is murder and also that it's justifiable you black and white thinking faggot. Maybe murder is the wrong word. It's killing a human life. And if I have no stake in that human life, why do I give a fuck?

So..
Hm. So you're saying that murder is okay if it
A) Is done for a reason and
B) Attempts to minimize suffering
?

If you aren't able to support yourself, you shouldn't be having sex.

maybe once it's nervous is developed enough to feel pain

So a rape baby's should be killed? What did the baby do. His father was the only evil one. Not the baby that's pretty unfair don't you think?

How do you feel now? Do you think its alive?

It isn't human life until it develops a brain and can start thinking/feeling things, until then, it's a goddamn parasite

par·a·site
ˈperəˌsīt/
noun
noun: parasite; plural noun: parasites

an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.

what about the mother?

yeah basically.

that's why I'm cool with eating chicken; their lives are terrible but are better than they have been and at the time of death they're killed pretty quickly and painlessly (thankfully that's also the most efficient)

same thing with abortion, if the fetus is gonna just be in pain forever or if it would be born into a shitty situation, we're saving a lot of pain and heartache down the road by killing it off now

>support yourself and the baby
Reading is fundamental

that fat little whore broke that perfectly good basket

>It isn't human life until it develops a brain and can start thinking/feeling things, until then, it's a goddamn parasite

Most niggers fit that description.

Literally not even real. Embryos aren't even close to that humanoid at that size.

And even if it were, how is a cluster of sprawling around cells of any justifiable value?

I could make a petri dish of protein wiggle, does that deserve to spend 9 months multiplying in a womb?

ayylmao

Without the abortion, it becomes a human, so, yeah. It kills people.

So, let's require people to have a job before they can consent?

Even if it is "murder" I see literally nothing wrong with it, just as long as it isn't due in a month.
Also, if we want to start calling abortions murder, let's call everything on the dining menu animal murder/abuse/corpses/cadavers.

I feel really sorry for children who grow up with parents who share your shitty mentality, like holy fuck just don't have kids if this is the way you look at reproducing

No

Sure. Call it whatever you want. Murder. Killing. Destroying. It doesn't matter. Aborting unwanted babies will do far FAR more good than harm.

Making it illegal to do so is based solely religious and and personal morals rather than the good of the person, community, and country.

I would rather the fetus be "murdered" or "killed" then have a family and country be burdened by it.

No. Is miscarriage murder? No.

If you've a problem with abortion, why don't you give a FUCK about soldiers who die for you? Kids with cancer? Starving kids in Africa?

The truth of the matter is that you don't give two shits about the child or the mother. You care about BIRTH, not life.

What a bunch of fucking morons. You can draw imaginary lines at different points in the child development cycle if it makes you feel better, but it's still killing a person. And there are plenty of good reasons for a person to get killed, whether that person is a full grown adult or a couple of cells. Until we live in some utopian society where women get paid to have their embryos sucked out so they can be raised in vitro and sold off to adoptive parents, an unborn child has no rights and you should be able to end its life at any point in time.

>inb4 its current year

That detracts from my point how?
No, I'm saying stop making bad decisions. Don't buy a yacht if you can't afford to maintain it, don't have sex if you can't support the offspring. I don't get why people have such a hard time with that concept.

In the same way condoms kill people, sure.

no.

and if he is faggot what are you gonna do about it?

Oh, you misunderstand
I love kids
But a fetus is not a kid

Sure, it has the "potential" to be a kid, but it also has the "potential" to be retarded, which is another good reason to abort that shit

A miscarriage isn't a murder, it's manslaughter. At least it should be according to these retards.

Exactly. Jews are like tumors too, nothing wrong about killing all kikes either.

No, the baby didn't do anything, but the emotional trauma could cause the mother so much stress it kills the baby anyway, or she kills herself, or all that shit.

It's healthier to get rid of the baby, which doesn't even have a brain yet, than it is to cause that much harm to the mother.

On a side note, the actual circumstances of the rape make me feel differently

a sperm is half a person, tbh, at least in terms of potential

Saying a fetus has the "Potential" to be einstein is nonsense.

It has the "Potential" to be put in a can of soda and sold as a cure for impotence as well, doesn't mean that it needs to be preserved for that basis.

>don't have sex if you can't support the offspring
But, I can support the offspring.

Da gubbament senz me dem checks. Got dat Obama money rollin in, ya dig?

I was talking about aborting the result of sperm and egg fertilized, not your weak assed haploids.

So masturbation is murder?

it's alive in the sense an ant is alive or chicken is alive. It's not even started to acquire the sort of information, associations, or distinctiveness that make humans out of homosapiens. Since this conversation will inevitably lead there "are feral homosapiens and pre-humans human and therefore entitled to those basic rights?" No they're just animals and are only treated delicately because we feel it would diminish us in some moral capacity to destroy them as such.

Yeah it is, so it's a good thing, less fucking humans the better

Yes, masturbation is the epitome of "necessary evil".

No fucking kidding. These whack-job don't even understand that miscarriages are NORMAL.

Tragic, yes, but if your development has gone sideways and you're not biologically feasible to maintain yourself, it happens.

Hell, most first pregnancies result in a miscarriage.

Lets just take the babies into the street and shoot them, problem solved.

It's killing, but not necessarily murder. Depends on your definition of murder though.

The thing is, no one has an obligation to use their body to sustain the life of another individual. Even if I invite someone to hook up and use my kidneys to keep them alive, I'm allowed to rescind the offer. Women have the same right when it comes to a pregnancy. That doesn't mean a fetus (at least one with personhood) is worth nothing; it should make her at least think twice. I.e., I wouldn't recommend anyone get an abortion because I find it morally fraught. But ultimately an abortion is her right.

You miss the point, again
I AM FOR ABORTION
ABORTION GOOD
GET RID OF THE BURDENS OF SOCIETY

I think retards should be killed because they are not fit to survive. Animals kill there young if they know something is wrong with it why shouldn't we?

I like you I think

checked, also an estimated 1/3rd of all pregnancies end is miscarriage.

Good point. Mandatory birth control implants for anyone on welfare.

God is a lie fagot

Late term abortion should be legal.

I know a few 20 year olds who need put down.

No. Giving birth is murder. By allowing an embryo to grow to the point where it develops a nervous system condemns it to the pain, suffering, and ultimately death.

Plus, abortion is green.

Exactly, that's what I'm saying
If my girlfriend came home with a diagnosis that the baby was gonna be born with downs or some shit, I'd seriously want to convince her to abort

>

Yes fuck. These people who want fucking autopsies and funerals for miscarriages are fucking insane.

My wife got an abortion for us earlier this year. Best decision ever.

I dunno about down's. I know at least one cool down's chick. But ultimately it should be up to the woman who's pregnant with the damn thing and will have to raise it.

Who am I kidding. I wouldn't want a Downs child either. Too much work with not enough payoff.

yeah, but it's not any more immoral than pulling the plug for someone in an indefinite coma

A single cell constitutes an organism. It is feeding and multiplying. It's alive. It's also human, unless you can cite for me specific examples of two humans copulating and the result being the birth of a tree. Or a car. Or a cat. Or perhaps a trout.

>muh choice
>abort a woman
>muh choice > her choice

This, like so many political arguments, is a symphony of hypocracy, on all sides.

on many sides
>on many sides

You're right, though.

there is no god

I've killed a kid by abortion before... I regret it because it is murder.

>A single cell constitutes an organism
In that case, conception is murder. Only one sperm cell makes it to the egg. The millions of others die. And speaking of eggs, is menstruation murder too?

Which god? What if Allah put a Muslim soul in there?

Zygotes deserve the right to vote, own a home and equality of education

yeah it's an organism. if you're bringing it to a fundamental level there's absolutely nothing wrong with killing anything.

And in general, abortions lead to a healthier society

it may resemble a tiny human but it doesn't have consciousness yet.

we dont have a memory of anything that happens in the womb until a certain period in development.

plus the affect not getting aborted has on the person who is carrying the fetus to full term should be that person's right to decide

we already have too many fucking people in the world, we dont need more fuck-ups with parents that didnt want them growing up to not contribute to society

How do you know? You don't just like I can't prove there is a god you can't prove there isn't a god.

I look at it as if the the thing is still a clump of cells than its like a seed that hasn't germinated can't really call it a plant

So if I cut off my thumb, and give the cells a way to continue living, aka feed and multiply, it is a human?

Young fetuses don't have interests though. You can destroy them without taking anything away from them because there is no "them" to take anything away from. They're proto-persons in the rights sense, not persons.

Later term fetuses are a tougher matter, but frankly I don't even think newborns are fullblown people like the rest of us. Thought experiment: A five year old and a five minute old infant have both ingested poison and you have only one dose of the antidote. Who do you give it to? It's obvious to me you should give it to the five year old.

I'm 50/50 on abortion being murder.
On the one hand, killing babies is rad, but on the other, it gives women a choice, and I really don't support that.

You can't murder someone if they are not born yet
Also your not alive until that baby takes his or her first breath

I wish society could have an honest discussion about abortion. Unfortunately any discussion is going to include "muh feelings, muh magic man in the sky, muh hell/heaven, muh could-a-been-a-astronaut"
People in general are too retarded to actually be rational in abortion discussions.

Kill it. Kill it with fire.

No. Furthermore, babies are the least valuable humans around since they have the least experiences and developments.

I don't need to prove to you that God is real, that would defeat the purpose of faith.

Absence of faith is a learned behavior, not something we are born with.

A deceased human body has the same number of particles as a living one.

faith is the learned behavior, dogs are atheists

They used to kill babies for lots of reasons for thousands of years of human history. They weren't wrong.

Also by your logic, a full grown adult should be saved before a young child. I'm okay with that, being an adult.

not for much time