Dear Sup Forums

Dear Sup Forums.
How did you get the idea that antifa is as bad as racists/ fascists/ nazis aka alt-rights ?

Pic related, it's the reason why antifa will always be violent towards the 2nd group i mentioned

Other urls found in this thread:

goodreads.com/quotes/25998-the-so-called-paradox-of-freedom-is-the-argument-that-freedom
youtube.com/watch?v=qQc8ODBHMz4
twitter.com/AnonBabble

A lot of Sup Forums are legit unironic nazis. They just say that to try and convince libs.

additionally they're fucking stupid

congrats this is the dumbest fucking thing i've ever read in my life

well just because you say you are anti fascist does not mean that you are good guys. it is like the Democratic Republic of Germany - a communist state that was anti democracy.

being anti fascist is good. Being a violent anti democratic and anti free speech anti social bastard is not.

when were they anti-democratic and against free speech ? When they attempted to silence and oppress a group that wanted to silence and oppress a different group based solely on skin color ? Did you even read the text in my picture ?
Antifa would've fought against DDR as well

Popper was talking about, When asked, of the paradox of how tolerance would need to work in a given society.
He specialized in the philosophy of science. Not social justice.

They ain't takin my guns no matter how much they brainwash and turn everyone against eachother to try and spark some bullshit it won't happen. Order out of chaos puppets

but... they aren't trying to turn people against eachother. racists try to turn people against eachother

"Tolerance" is an abstract term. No one is just "tolerant" or "intolerant". People are tolerant towards certain ideas, certain behaviors, etc., and intolerant towards others.
American conservatives, for example, tolerate home-schoolers and gun owners. Muslim fundamentalists tolerate polygamists. Libertarians tolerate you spending your income on yourself.
Does this means the Left is intolerant? No, it just does tolerate other things!
Everyone with political, philosophical, spiritual, theological or other principles is the bad guy in someone elses eyes and, thus, intolerant and a potential tyrant.
So, not really an argument.

Also, as the liberal he was, Sir Popper would most certainly condemn actions, ideology, and motives of the so-called Antifa.

antifa isn't actually against fascism. They're literally neofascists. And the media is portraying any and everyone who stands up to neofa as alt-right racist nazis.

In reality it isn't antifa vs neonazis, it's neofa versus slightly right of center normies.

Karl Popper: the man who said science was fake

Hate speech is free speech. Take away someone's right to voice their opinion, that's fascism. Hate crimes and violence is another matter entirely.

You say antifa is a group of fascists, but who are they trying to oppress ?

>Antifa would've fought against DDR as well
Antifa was, in part, financed by the DDR.

see the picture in OP

When did a group they've silenced want to silence anyone else, based on skin color or not, and how did this

No racists isolate themselves.

>antifa isn't actually against fascism. They're literally neofascists.
Please don't use the term "Fascist" for anyone who's somewhat authoritarian.

Fascists are fascists, no one else is. (And, btw, the so-called Alt-Right isn't fascist, for the most part.)

...

police, our government, other liberals who condemn their violence, pacifists

l'm talking about AntiFa and whoever the alt right is. Media is hyping you all up to go to war so everyone gets FUCKED. Do you understand what order out of chaos is?

They aren't anti fascist, they just stole the name from the European group

The use intimidation and physical violence to oppress legal speech and legal political behavoir. That could be constructed as "oppression". Also, because Antifa is not just strictly anti-fascist, but endorses other left-wing ideas as well, it potentially oppresses big parts of the mainstream, including the mainstream left-of-center.

Nobody got that Idea.
The Alt-Right is trying to create an Enemy other than the general public.
So they look less like the insane Nazis they are.
This is why they make so many antifa-hate threads, and you believing them that people think they are as bad as nazis, sounds like its working.

The perceived legitimacy of any argument is contingent on its presentation.

I cannot denounce violence while I myself am violent. I cannot preach community, unity and peace while taking part in an unorganized, armed counter protest.

The very concept of a peaceful demonstration requires protesters to be peaceful AND ALSO not respond to violence against them. The every point is to show strength by control, demonstrating that giving in to violent urges brought out by emotional responses is the true weak position. Many of protesters today seem to only seek out conflict, not the resolution that should be found on the other side. Being prepared is good, how you prepare denotes intentions. Bringing gas masks is not the same as bringing melee weapons.

They are not as bad. But they are losing any legitimacy their argument has while adding to the other side's.

In what way are they not anti-fascist?

Not that user, but they protest hate groups rather than fascist government policies such as the patriot act.

The goyim are infighting still? Oy Vey

>They don't hate the kikes.

The entire problem is that peiple in the United States have made the mistake of laching onto ideologies from Europe, which only make sense in a Eutopian context.

Fascism makes sense for a nation that could reasonably be considered an ethnostate. It makes no sense for a country that has always been racially mixed (albeit in a heirarchy).

Communism has never made sense, but it is convincing for people who are disenfranchised by a monarchy and who have reached the physical limits of the land and resources inside their borders. But communism is especially fucking stupid and irrelevent in a country of unlimited land, resources, and opportunity.

Somehow, some Americans forgot that America already has a unique identity and ideology based on individual liberty.

Inb4 centrism is a cop out. This isn't centrism, it's rejection of authoritarianism in favor of American ideals.

>people need to be told this
The founding fathers would be in disbelief

fucking idiots repurposing the work of great philosophers.
let me teach you, imbecile:
goodreads.com/quotes/25998-the-so-called-paradox-of-freedom-is-the-argument-that-freedom

>"Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.

Pay special attention to this part:
>In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them

We have secured this right already by outlawing violent organizations. [cont]

Itt: 4chin gets trolled by a South Park quote

antifa shut down free speech rallies in boston and berklee both in the last 2 weeks. police stood down both times.

[cont]
but what antifa does is to sidestep the democratic process, declare their goals more important than the voice of the populus, and attempt (misserably) to VIOLENTLY oppress opinions that they as a minority don't like.

You are the bullies that popper warned about.
And we are not forced to tolerate violent, leftist fascism amongst our midst.

Go fuck yourself, you indoctrinated drone.

You generalize too much...

Antifa is just as bad. They assault people purely for exercising their democratic right to vote if they voted for Trump. If anything they're worse because the people with those views greatly outnumber the small amount of alt right nazis. They commit evil under the excuse that they think it's right if evil is done in response to their believed evil.

people with beliefs and opinions that are different than theirs. they are authoritarian

Your thought process is as fucked up as your spelling. Try reading more, that way you might learn to spell as well as develpoing an intellect.

Fascism does not actually exist anymore. It has now just become a term for someone perceived as a bully.

But perception is entirely subjective, and someone who may seem like a bully to some may also be viewed as a guardian to others.

One of the biggest problems with our country today is that individuals are both unable and unwilling to consider an issue from someone else's perspective. It's too easy to write them off as wrong, and dismiss a point entirely

look at the face masks they wear look how they arm them self's. if they where confident there would be no retaliation they wouldn't hide there faces and destroy businesses while wearing the communist flag on there face while doing it. take a red pill OP.

see
Fuck you!
German here, I used to run with antifa, thinking I fought the good fight, until I grabbed a book or two and recognized what cancer this "social movement" actually is.

Whoever rises their fists, should be stomped to the ground.

>I hole-hardedly agree, but allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong.

Antifa are far worst they were orIginally product of Communism. Now they are garbage and trash of society that not even real Communists would want

Common sense and living in reality

youtube.com/watch?v=qQc8ODBHMz4

>we cant tolerate EVERYTHING

agreed, which is why communist subversives, like Antifa, deserve nothing but the hatred they receive and should be classified as a terrorist group

10/10 point
4.5/10 spelling grammar

But don't worry, I feel ya.

This. communism never took hold in america because it makes literally no sense here. Same thing goes for nazism.

both are just edgy kids LARPing as failed authoritarian regimes because they are losers who cant get a girlfriend

I know I fucking hate you just because of your shit daily threads. Go fucking advertise leftypol on fucking reddit

And congrats on a fucking stupid quote. Fucking faggot I'm intolerant towards op

>So they look less like the insane Nazis they are.
In fact, most of the so-called Alt-Right are not more than racist (or race-realist or race-aware or race-whatever) conservatives, moderates, and progressives.

How about this quote??
“I remained a socialist for several years, even after my rejection of Marxism; and if there could be such a thing as socialism combined with individual liberty, I would be a socialist still. For nothing could be better than living a modest, simple, and free life in an egalitarian society. It took some time before I recognized this as no more than a beautiful dream; that freedom is more important than equality; that the attempt to realize equality endangers freedom; and that, if freedom is lost, there will not even be equality among the unfree.”


― Karl R. Popper,

He didn't believe in equality. Didn't believe in Marxism, and only believed in Socialism in a fantasy world...

Go fuck yourself you ignorant "anti-fa" faggots.

"caaaan you feeeeeeeel the looooooooove toniiiiiiiight"

The Patriot Act is not fascist nor is it non-fascist.

pic related, the fascist nazis they protested against at Boston

>Fascism makes sense for a nation that could reasonably be considered an ethnostate. It makes no sense for a country that has always been racially mixed (albeit in a heirarchy).
I disagree. While race can play a prominent role within a fascist movement, it doesn't have to. For Fascism itself, certainly the concepts of state, nation, fatherland, authority, community, etc. play a more important role than race!

Allow me to distill the stupidity of antifa down so that this who may have been thinking about joining them don't. When you call the alt right or anyone who holds conservative views Nazis, you are proudly proclaiming your own ignorance about history and the meaning of the Nazi. Nazism is not just violence against another race. Nazism isn't just about a pure race. It is an actual governing principle too. In this case, National Socialism. Point out to yourself and to me how the KKK (which started out as a Democratic idea) is Nat Soc. Some members of the alt right might follow the racist teachings of Nazism. But I don't thing there are many on the right that wish for socialism to come into its own here.

Socialism is an idea from the left following loosely collectivism principles, which is a fundamentally leftist idea. Socialism is incompatible with a republic, which is what we are.

Fascism will always have this idea of "us and them" which will always fall back into racism. Even non racist fascist movements, like the one in Brazil which accepted blacks and native americans into their group, was plagued by some racist. Theres always going to be a need for an "other" to combat, and race is the easiet dividing line.

no one hates nazism because of the socialist aspects. They hate it because of the war mongering, racist, and genocidal aspects you tard.

The problem is that "intolerant" here means: doesn't conform 100% to the official social sciences PC narrative getting tossed about on university campuses throughout the Western world.

I think Nazis are pretty stupid, but a bunch of rich kids playing Communists while supporting all sorts of LGBTQ-etc-etc + Islamism (but NEVER seeing the irony of that), are not much better. Both are fucking morons. Neither has the right to shut the other up.

On Sup Forums, calls 4chaners stupid.
I guess your right

>A lot of Sup Forums are legit unironic nazis.

Not so sure about that. I am sure that a helluva lot more are quasi-nihilistic chronic masturbators.

>Socialism is an idea from the left following loosely collectivism principles, which is a fundamentally leftist idea. Socialism is incompatible with a republic, which is what we are.
Which, btw, is a very American view. Over here in good ol' Europe, you can be a collectivist republican Conservative. The Classical Liberalism of modern day American conservatives used to be the left wing of the political spectrum, after all, and to the Right sat the proponents of the Ancien Regime.

I hate socialism you mouth breathing neck beard. It is incompatible with freedom. It's incompatible with Republics. And Nazism IS socialistic in its very DNA. Nat Soc is not by its definition a racist ideology. Hitler's private hatred was what brought racism into it. So by railing against your so called "Nazis" you are in effect saying you're not for socialism.

Do you even think deeply about the shit you spew?

True, but maybe that had less to do with Fascism itself and more with the fact that racism was socially more acceptable back than.

Also, the friend-foe-dichotomy is a basic part of every political idea.

Apple's and Oranges argument there. You can keep your collectivist bullshit in your quagmire of rotting carcasses that are piling up because of dirty sand niggers you guys are allowing in. Fuck, even the Dutch are moving away from socialism now trying to save money. Fuck I'm glad Washington kicked the Brits out. Unfortunately, kids nowadays think it's cool to be like the madmen of Europe.

>Nat Soc is not by its definition a racist ideology.
Yes, it is! There can be a non-racist nationalistic Socialism or socialistic Nationalism, but that would not be a NS.

...

>Apple's and Oranges argument there
It was not an argument at all, I just used your post to highlight a fact to those who might not be aware of it.

> Lets defend the tolerant by making them intolerant towards other intolerant
> That will show them how tolerant we are

I am too dumb to follow this so i am going to say its fake and gay. Unironically.

Sup Forums was made as a place to shitpost so people said the worst shit they could ironically.

The thing is when you have people pretending to be nazis, you eventually get real nazis who mistakenly believe they're in good company -- and nobody knows they're not posting ironically until the population is gradually replaced until its mostly actual nazis.

The real reason you know its bullshit like tumblr is its an echochamber.

You can't ever trust any opinion coming out of an echochamber, where every opinion is a meme.

Go outside and see real life.

There has been a very real Nazi presence in the USA since the 30s, yet they have never gained any political traction nor popular approval ever touting this 'hate speech'. The American people disagree with it and find it to be in the fringe. Why are you going batshit about this now?

Has it ever occurred to you that if you snuff out someone else's right to speak, regardless of what they espouse, it can easily be done to you in turn? Once you open the revolving door, don't be surprised if it bites you in the ass.

No. Do you even no what it means to be a nationalist? It means putting your own country first. If your country is say like the U S. It could be a Nat Soc government without the racism. Put aside color and look to the flag. Tada, a non racist Nat Soc government. Stupid ass. This country is prime example of how it needn't be centered around race, but an idea.

>anymore?

Antifa is the natural enemy of trump-voters, Sup Forums, stormfront.com, nazis who all have an overlapping spectrum with the others. Only these groups have a real problem with antifa (and the people whoes shit gets wrecked for no reason), therefore i dismiss most brabbeling against them as opinion manipulation.
I don't like them either, but i see that they've got their hearts at the right spot, just happen to be all kinds of violent.

Trump is a great supporter of Israel

Antifa is used to destroy society. Leftist ''society'' isn't society at all it's subhumanity and degeneracy

All you need to do is watch how Antifa / the left in general reacts to people of colour who choose to be conservative to know who the true racists are.

The filter in which the left sees the world is one of race, one of skin colour. They believe that how you behave should be dicated by your race and that your race dictates your social status. That in itself is racism.

Conservatives don't see things this way, they don't see things through the filter of race. They pretty much believe that all men are created equal, pretty much. That the only things that matter are who you are as a person, and how you perform in your duties.

Because while i agree with their messege and some of their actions, i dont agree with a lot of what the american far left is doing, also i dont think punching everything that is intolerant will work, because you need education, a lot of it, and i doubt that the guys from antifa could give a good lecture about why poverty lowers IQ scores. Also too many of them are in it just for the riots, i dont like football hooligans and i dont like riots

>Your thought process is as fucked up as your spelling. Try reading more, that way you might learn to spell as well as develpoing an intellect.

> Develpoing

Laughinggirls.jpeg

Well if they say they're anti fascists then it must be true, right? Just like North Korea is actually a democratic people's republic.

I know a lot of leftists, and a lot of people who support Antifa. And it's quite interesting because literally every single one of them is a raw narcissist. They claim to care about everyone and everything, preach love and shit. But they're also the most snide, deceptive, traitorous, hypocritical people around. If they think they can get one over on you, they will. That's my experience anyway. And not just from direct involvement with them but observing other "friendships and relationships" from afar.

Seems like you can't be a leftist if you're not a narcissist.

I think the real reason nazis come to Sup Forums is because besides being nazis, they also have the overall Sup Forums mentality. These are the kind of people that make memes, write long cringy comments under facebook posts and are not violent in general. They are not the type of nazis, who would join a skinhead group, get drunk all day and beat random niggers.
Bonus points because the law can't reach them - it can all be dismissed as irony and shitposting.

No anno, thats the exact OPPOSITE of the problem. The american far left and right has decided to make thier own way, and like with most things that the usa touches they fucked up so hard it made stalingrad look like a good idea. This is why you have libertarians marching hand in hand with fascists while the left dose not give a fuck about the workers and attempts to "protect" the "rights" of upper class, black, trans ivy-leag college students by attacking white guys who have dreadlocks. You fucked up, you need to go back to the basics. because no one know wtf is going on with you guys.

A lot of Sup Forums users are nihilists who don't like pearl clutchers telling them what they can or cannot say/do. When the moral busybodys were predominantly right wing most people posted reactionary counters to them, when the culture shifted and these assholes became predominantly leftwing again reactionary posters. Hitler jokes and racist humor are just standard internet humor and have no bearing on political affiliation.

this nigga actually thinks that Sup Forums is a secret nazi online hideout

the tinfoil is strong in this one

Exactly. They are certainly not a terrorist group hell bent on destroying the 1st amendment

That quote barely even makes sense. You barely make sense. None of you idiots make any fucking sense.

>anymore?

I guess not

But a National Socialist is not a nationalist who just happens to like economic interventionism and the welfare state.
As I said, being a nationalist Socialist or a socialist Nationalist doesn't make you a NatSoc.
National Socialism is an ideology which developed in early 20th century Central Europe and found it's most important expression in the NSDAP and the revolution of 1933.
Racialism was an integral and important part from the beginning and, thus, cannot just be skipped.
Also, prominent concepts of NatSoc ideology like "Blood and Soil", "Lebensraum", a view of history as a series of race struggles, antisemitism, etc., simply do not make any sense when taking out the racialism.

You're both right.

It's interesting to me that you can claim to understand them well enough to dismiss them all as narcissists. You presume a lot, you're inevitably oversimplifying the complexity of people and their relationships. Being a narcissist is literally a psychological condition, but I don't think that's the sense in which you mean it. But I think I get the sense of what you mean. It's not really in people's nature to be anything other than selfish, even seemingly unselfish acts can be selfish if looked at in a certain way. I'd rather people preach ideals of equality and fall short than preach an ideology of hate and try to live up to it. Rather than looking at people from the left or the right as inherently one thing or another I think it's important to keep in mind that we're all just people who were raised in different ways, and experienced different circumstances.

No, stop it right there.

Just because there exists an evil doesn't mean that the force that fights that evil is good in turn. Both sides are evil here and trying to give brownie points to one side because "their hearts are in the right spot" or some such nonsense is a flawed notion.

This is near pinnacle irony because I hear it always from the same people that criticized Bush Jr. for being so stupid for having the quote "You're either with us or against us".

When it comes to Antifa, actions speak louder than words. Spew all you want with the "punch the nazis"; while we all see all of the innocents swept under the rug with them, we have to praise them for good intentions? Fuck that.

Which actually means that conservatives live in a fantasy world.

I said Sup Forums has the same overall meme orientated mentality as Sup Forums, not the other way around. Learn to fuckin read, imbecile. And yes, I think many users of this board are if not nazis, then at least are racist to some degree - enough to make a joke about it. Not with the biggoted kind of racism - that's just for the jokes, but simply with the honesty to admit that statistically some groups of people are worse.

>Antifa would've fought against DDR as well
That is completely wrong as their core beliefs are to replace the government with a communist one.

Rioting and assaulting people peacefully protesting university students who were protesting the cancellation of a speaking arrangement on a college campus is not a noble thing. Assaulting members of prayer groups, liberals, the disabled, the elderly, and college kids doesn't make you anti-fascist no matter how hard you scream those people are Nazi's.

Actually countering legitimate Nazi's in Charlottesville doesn't erase the rest, nor excuse the fact they are a violent anarcho-communist group who gives no fucks about the rights of others.

It's the republicans who are trying to protect the upper class, dummy. If you want to oversimplify everything then the far left are literally communists who believe that poor people should be supported by the government.

Took you long enough to respond, Google not working for you?

The United States could easily become a Nat Soc government. And it has nothing to do with race. Hitler did use racism as a rallying point to stir up feelings in the German people that they were being held down because they were German. So in its beginning, it didn't need racism to be, he used it as a part of it. But the ideals it espouses is for nationalism. Not racism. You also cannot discount the actual ideology of the governing principles of Nat Soc. They are too intertwined. Nat Soc can begin and thrive without the racism aspect.

So I say again, for the umpteenth million time. Calling these racist shit mongers "Nazis" is a misnomer. And is only used because of the negative connotations associated with that word. These racists are not really Nazis because most of them DO NOT WANT a socialistic government here. But antifa and the rest of the left do want socialism here. And couple that with the fact that they want to use skin color as a determining factor in life, then what you got is something that resembles Nazism more than what you're accusing the right leaners of.