I'm done with Catholicism and the Pope

>In an interview published Tuesday with France’s La Croix, Pope Francis argued that Jesus’ call to spread the Gospel differs little from the jihad waged by radical Islamic terrorists.

>The pope explained how ISIS’ “war of conquest” has bred a non-justified fear of Islam among Western countries.

>“I don’t think that there is a fear of Islam as such but of ISIS and its war of conquest, which is partly drawn from Islam,” he told La Croix. “It is true that the idea of conquest is inherent in the soul of Islam.”

>“However, it is also possible to interpret the objective in Matthew’s Gospel, where Jesus sends his disciples to all nations, in terms of the same idea of conquest.”

>Earlier in the interview, Pope Francis had claimed that the global economy, which “has descended into the idolatry of money,” has widened a perceived gap between Christianity and Islam.

>“The initial problems are the wars in the Middle East and in Africa as well as the underdevelopment of the African continent, which causes hunger,” explained Francis. “If there is so much unemployment, it is because of a lack of investment capable of providing employment, of which Africa has such a great need.”

>“The great majority of humanity’s wealth has fallen into the hands of a minority of the population. … A completely free market does not work.”

>fear of ISIS is not justified
>warped moral equivalence to the Gospel
>wealth inequity is why radical Islam exists, not because faith can be a de-facto primer for terrorism
>tfw the Church is being run by a Marxist Catholic and the Vatican is enabling him

That's it. I've been a Christfag for a long time but as a Catholic I'm really ashamed to be one. I went to a Catholic prep school and they were peddling wealth redistribution among other things, but now I've come full circle seeing this.

If this is the future of the Church I don't want to be part of it.

Other urls found in this thread:

dailycaller.com/2016/05/18/pope-francis-spreading-the-gospel-is-no-different-than-waging-jihad
usnews.com/news/articles/2016-05-18/cardinal-robert-sarah-claims-god-is-being-eroded-eclipsed-liquidated-in-the-united-states
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility
youtube.com/watch?v=tcge7eppKo4
cnsnews.com/news/article/pope-francis-same-sex-marriage-move-father-lies-total-rejection-gods-law
wdtprs.com/blog/2013/12/pope-francis-shocked-by-gay-adoption-urges-bishop-to-speak-against-it-boldly/
independent.co.uk/news/people/pope-francis-compares-arguments-for-transgender-rights-to-nuclear-arms-race-10061223.html
catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2013/06/03/pope-francis-is-under-attack-for-saying-that-outside-the-church-there-is-no-salvation-its-a-poke-in-the-eye-says-one-presbyterian-why-hes-wrong/
huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/24/pope-francis-excommunicates-priest-greg-reynolds_n_3983059.html
ncronline.org/blogs/francis-chronicles/pope-francis-gender-theory-problem-not-solution
lifenews.com/2015/09/23/pope-francis-on-abortions-innocent-victims-its-wrong-to-look-the-other-way-or-remain-silent/
businessinsider.com/pope-francis-endorses-use-of-force-against-isis-in-iraq-2014-8
catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-off-the-cuff-to-priests-religious-indifference-makes-god-vomit-69700/
christianpost.com/buzzvine/7-times-pope-francis-was-misquoted-132679/
telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/bolivia/11729834/Pope-rebukes-Bolivias-President-Evo-Morales-for-gift-of-crucifix-mounted-on-hammer-and-sickle.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

god damn. the pope is going full fedora

dailycaller.com/2016/05/18/pope-francis-spreading-the-gospel-is-no-different-than-waging-jihad

Link because fuck the character field limit

>“However, it is also possible to interpret the objective in Matthew’s Gospel, where Jesus sends his disciples to all nations, in terms of the same idea of conquest.”

Pack your bags, lads. We're going crusading!

Except the Quran isn't even open to interpretation, it lays out what ISIS is doing

What do you expect from a socialist.

>A completely free market does not work.”
Popo confirmed for communist shill
TIME TO OVERTHROW HIM

Because Jesus waged war, killed infidels, talked about justification of rape and married an underage girl and had sex with her. Right.

Who planted this mole on the Vatican?

Probably the Russians.

>full circle
That's so funny for me to hear coming from a Catholic.

He's literally defending terrorists. Holy fuck

>choosing a Marxist as pope
>ever
this is why you don't go looking for leaders in South America. They're all Marxist shitheads who always end up screwing whoever they want to help.

Liberation theology is a cancer that needs to be scrubbed from the planet.

What about all of Hitler's staff who fled to Argentina? And the based Chilean fascists?

Come to Orthodoxy, brother.

>gorgeous eastern europeans
>clear doctrine
>beautiful churches
>funky dietary laws, but you can still drink at least
>great incense
>the host doesn't taste like cardboard
>song
>stick with tradition


MAGA

Every single leader in South America and Mexico is corrupt. I wish I was exaggerating but I'm not.

>Fascism
go to bed cuck

Convert to the Orthodox church, then.

>if you really stretch, you can compare Islam's ideology to Christianity because Jesus wanted to spread his religion as well
JUST

SUBMIT

TO

That was a long time ago my friend.

PISLAM

>convert to "LOLMYSTICISM" with the same problems of appealing to tradition and authority in every single one of their justifying "reasonings" for why you should believe them as opposed to anyone else

>La Croix
typical Ventrue trickery

Camarilla a shit.

The whole WoD is shit. That's the entire point.

Religions must appeal to tradition, since they are based on the transmission of revealed truth, not on what you conveniently make up, trying to corrupt the dogma and definition of the religion

AND

>religions must appeal to tradition
No, not really. I can maintain I believe in a revealed truth while not holding to it dogmatically, since it's entirely logically possible my belief is wrong. I'm not appealing to tradition in justifying my belief at all in that case.

>religion
>not made up

Pick one
Also, checked

>“However, it is also possible to interpret the objective in Matthew’s Gospel, where Jesus sends his disciples to all nations, in terms of the same idea of conquest.”
pope, what are you doing. I have liked this pope, because he is finally acting as true christian should act, but this...

usnews.com/news/articles/2016-05-18/cardinal-robert-sarah-claims-god-is-being-eroded-eclipsed-liquidated-in-the-united-states

Gotta put your trust in the based negroe cardinal.

>while not holding to it dogmatically
Change of dogma is corruption of dogma.

Dogma is corruption to begin with, because you're existentially incapable of knowing anything outside soft solipsism as a necessary fact. It's deception incarnate.

Come to Orthodoxy, brother.

the jews have infiltrated our churches

Are there two Popes at the moment? Like, twins or something?

One day it's "Islam is evil" the next it's "Allah Ackbarrrrrrr"?

What is going on?

Then you contradict yourself. If you believe it to be revealed, it is unchangeable and what defines the religion. Without tradition, you just made up something. The revealed truth reaches you through tradition, if you reject tradition, then you reject religion.

I'm not talking about atheism, though

>France
>Catholic
Wew Lad

>Sup Forums finds a friend in the Church with a dindu Catholic cardinal to fight Marxism

this is indeed a disturbing universe

The best. Always clear and merciless

If you believe in the Church then you have to believe that it holds the Truth. The authority of the Church comes from Jesus.

The Illuminati Pope is the LAST POPE.

But how cucked are they?
I'm trying to find an uncucked form of Christianity that makes sense.

I believe it to be revealed, and that it's unchangeable, but I *don't* believe that's an *incontrovertible truth*, because I have *no means* of overcoming doubt in regard to the very real possibility that belief is wrong, which makes my belief completely not dogmatic.

*WITH* tradition *SOMEONE ELSE* just makes something up. Someone else making something up for you is better, Spaniard?

How ignorant can you be of the history of the Church to believe there is no spirit of conquest?

How ignorant can you be of the Bible that you're offended by the Vicar of God haranguing against the greed of the rich?

What the hell kind of Catholic are you, anyway, to believe that the poor and hungry of the third world (many of whom are Catholic, btw) don't deserve our help?

>I've been a Christfag for a long time

I don't think you ever were.

Nice to see the heretic is hard at work preaching heresy.

Just be a Protestant. Ignore the dumb shit and stick with the Gospel.

Was Luther right?

An analysis of the development of Catholic dogma makes it seem like theyre just changing goalposts when convenient.

Scripture and tradition weren't held to the same level until 1070 and the bible directly says that there is nothing that needs to be added or removed from the words of Christ. Where does this authority come from if Jesus says the bible is perfect to follow and a good example?

Papal infallibility wasn't a thing until 1870?

There's no direct biblical basis for half of what Catholicism bans. The whole thing with contraception is based on one passage on OnAn that's misunderstood. Onan pulls out to deny his dead brothers widow a son and her rightful inheritance (was custom at the time) and God kills him for being selfish. I don't know where the Catholic church gets the ability to change whatever they want when they are a church of men.

This is coming from a struggling catholic too.

i used to take that train

I don't believe in "the church", I believe in the Lord my God Jesus Christ. Tell me where Christ says "other people who live after Peter and the other original apostles will have special authority in dictating to other people exactly how the words of other people most of them never saw are to be interpreted, and anyone who disagrees thou shalt call a heretic and spout empty rhetoric at".

>quoting Daily Caller

>Pope Francis argued that Jesus’ call to spread the Gospel differs little from the jihad waged by radical Islamic terrorists.

He did not.

>the rest

His views based on how he views the situation.

He's the first strongly pro-immigration pope we've had in a long time and it's fair to disagree with him.

Stop judging your church by your pope and realize there's more than transcends him. Hell, everything you should be heading to the church for transcends him.

>How ignorant can you be of the history of the Church to believe there is no spirit of conquest?

Not by the sword.

>How ignorant can you be of the Bible that you're offended by the Vicar of God haranguing against the greed of the rich?

Because he's a proxy for envy by the masses. Envy is one of the 7 deadly sins.

Plus he's fucking wrong about how money is driving these people to join ISIS. Some do but many do not. He's a Westernized fool.

But even then, the true Truth must be brought to you through tradition. There is no other option. As I said, religions MUST appeal to tradition, because anything else crumbles theologically. Not everything that appeals tot radition is true, but what is true must appeal to tradition. All beliefs are dogmatic. All of them are based on unchanging principles that define them. With tradition, the revealed truth is brought to you. Without tradition, you just make something up.

Protestants seem so boring. Sticking only to the gospel? Come on, you need tradition.
Like, ... I see Christ as a warrior in a way. He went thru hell and back (literally), for us. Why are most Christians taught to act like pussies?

tell me who says what Christ says.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility

That is why you should fear him.

artificial contraception is banned
"natural" one not so much

>the Truth must be brought to you through tradition
Nonsense. For all you know, God created you with all your current memories one seconds ago, and there was no "tradition" involved in your faith whatsoever, since *nothing* existed prior to then.

The Bible.

youtube.com/watch?v=tcge7eppKo4

Don't be stupid, user. Papal Infallibility is a power his office can exercise and there is a formal manner in which it's displayed, not a passive power of his office. This has ZERO to do with his infallibility.

And who says what is included in the Bible and what isn't? And are you saying that there was no Chrsitianity until there was a Bible? And that Christianity spread throught spreading or quoting a million sources they magically copied?

Yes, the Truth must be brought through tradition because it must be revealed, and then it can only reach you through tradition. You can spin everything aaall you want, but that isn't going to change

Why though? NFP is more effective than condoms and people perform it with the same intent. To not have kids but to make love.

Sure the chance is still there but technically condoms are more likely to fail than NFP so what's the difference? I don't buy the natural vs artificial because the intent is the same.

>Not by the sword.

"If any one of the race of the Saxons hereafter concealed among them shall have wished to hide himself unbaptized, and shall have scorned to come to baptism and shall have wished to remain a pagan, let him be punished by death." - Charles the Great, by the Grace of God Holy Roman Emperor, Anno Domini DCCLXXXII

>and who says what's included in the Bible and what isn't
Nobody but God.

I explained to you exactly how it could be the case that tradition isn't necessary by providing an example wherein it isn't. That's a fact.

Come and see. They have to have minty fresh churches there.

Given the previous poster, historic use of the sword doesn't really relate to what he's speaking about. Good call though.

who is this fluid druid

that's why u should chose to attend latin mass, which is not practiced by the modern catholic church. do not support the modern catholic church. this pope is a traitor and nothing more.

>The initial problems are the wars in the Middle East and in Africa

Literally the entire history of these regions is war, strife and conflict. The Pax Romana was probably the only time ever that the Levant wasn't being fought over.

>Nobody but God.
Then, please, quote the part of the Bible where it is stated what is part of the Bible.

I don't see any example, just something about memories and me being created a second ago, something that obviously hasn't happened. And even if that happened, the Truth would have been revealed to me, and it would be spread to others through tradition. And you'd better have some proof that the Truth has been personally revealed to you

>leaf

>calling anyone a cuck

It's the current year, user. Not the middle ages.

I'm sure this is a legit report of what he actually said. This time for real.
Pope says gay marriage is from satan
cnsnews.com/news/article/pope-francis-same-sex-marriage-move-father-lies-total-rejection-gods-law
Pope Francis speaks against Gay adoption
wdtprs.com/blog/2013/12/pope-francis-shocked-by-gay-adoption-urges-bishop-to-speak-against-it-boldly/
Compares trans rights to nuclear arms race
independent.co.uk/news/people/pope-francis-compares-arguments-for-transgender-rights-to-nuclear-arms-race-10061223.html
Pope Francis says that there's no salvation outside the Church
catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2013/06/03/pope-francis-is-under-attack-for-saying-that-outside-the-church-there-is-no-salvation-its-a-poke-in-the-eye-says-one-presbyterian-why-hes-wrong/
He excommunicates an Australian priest supporting gay marriage and women clergy
huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/24/pope-francis-excommunicates-priest-greg-reynolds_n_3983059.html
Pope Francis is against gender theory and for traditional gender roles
ncronline.org/blogs/francis-chronicles/pope-francis-gender-theory-problem-not-solution
Pope is against abortion
lifenews.com/2015/09/23/pope-francis-on-abortions-innocent-victims-its-wrong-to-look-the-other-way-or-remain-silent/
He Encourages the use of force against ISIS
businessinsider.com/pope-francis-endorses-use-of-force-against-isis-in-iraq-2014-8
Pope Francis is against lukewarm "faith"
catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-off-the-cuff-to-priests-religious-indifference-makes-god-vomit-69700/
The Pope is misquoted often
christianpost.com/buzzvine/7-times-pope-francis-was-misquoted-132679/
The Pope Rebukes Communist Cross
telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/bolivia/11729834/Pope-rebukes-Bolivias-President-Evo-Morales-for-gift-of-crucifix-mounted-on-hammer-and-sickle.html

Nowhere. I take it on faith. It's axiomatic in nature - it's a starting point of reasoning. "The Bible contains revealed Truth".

If God created you one second ago, with all your current memories, you could not possibly have your faith "because of tradition", since there would be no tradition to even *SPEAK OF*, since nothing existed prior to you but God.
Since you would *STILL BELIEVE* (at least I hope you do) that Christ is mankind's salvation, tradition would be *completely* unnecessary as a logical fact given you can believe the very same things without there ever even having been a real past and thus a real tradition.

>And you'd better have some proof that the Truth has been personally revealed to you
Ask your church "leaders" the same thing in regard to who things were originally revealed to, and how they could possibly incontrovertibly *know* that.

>I take it on faith. It's axiomatic in nature - it's a starting point of reasoning. "The Bible contains revealed Truth".

Faith on what? What source do you use for that list of books? Or have you personally read all existing books and selected those that you considered to be good enough? Enough of this nonsense, you just follow what the Church has brought to you, but like a spoiled child, you take what is convenient and then rebel against them.

>If God created you one second ago, with all your current memories, you could not possibly have your faith "because of tradition", since there would be no tradition to even *SPEAK OF*, since nothing existed prior to you but God.
Since you would *STILL BELIEVE* (at least I hope you do) that Christ is mankind's salvation, tradition would be *completely* unnecessary as a logical fact given you can believe the very same things without there ever even having been a real past and thus a real tradition.

>And even if that happened, the Truth would have been revealed to me, and it would be spread to others through tradition. And you'd better have some proof that the Truth has been personally revealed to you

But another problem you have is that my memories include who gave that knowledge to me. If God wanted to reveal knowledge to me, first it would be spontaneous knowledge I have, not being able to remember a source. And second there would be some strong proof.

Saying Christ is mankind salvation isn't enough, since you need to know what Christ's teachings are. And even the simple fact that Christ is mankind's salvation comes to you through tradition

My church leaders don't claim that truth has been revealed to them, they just follow tradition. Things were originally revealed to the apostles and tehe most early Christians, which by the way didn't have a Bible, but shared the Truth through tradition.

You're talking about how its logic is circular

I for one realise we're far beyond the need to be intellectually consistent

We're heading for a war and we need every damn traditional non-suicidal Christian we can get

having to state sins directly to a person is the stupidest fucking shit ever

I can't believe people think there's merit in it

No source. It's there. I have it. I take it on faith that it conveys Truth. You do *the exact same thing* except you're far more dishonest about it, since you pretend believing what other people tell you about its past is true, and what those people were saying itself was true, etc, until you reach whatever final notch in the temporal line you want in which you say "and finally, after all the tiers of testimony I've gone through - all of which were true (no doubt!) - we've reached what incontrovertibly happened; which, conveniently, is exactly what everyone else has said it was (how could it not be!)."

>But another problem you have is that my memories include who gave that knowledge to me
Which would objectively be wrong, since those people never existed. So you may *BELIEVE* other people helped pass revealed Truth to you through tradition, but it would be an *OBJECTIVELY WRONG* belief, which *STILL* instantiates the *FACT* that you can believe in revealed truth without appealing to tradition, since you don't have to believe *anyone else* to believe there is a revealed Truth.

>the pope defending terrorism

This is like one of my final fantasy video games

>My church leaders don't claim that truth has been revealed to them
I don't even imply they do.
But tell me how you know - incontrovertibly (since that's what dogma means) - that things were originally revealed to the apostles.

That's incredibly anti-rationalistic. I probably wouldn't enjoy your company.

You know the truth now

What are you even talking about?

Yes, you have it because someone gave it to you. Again, you have faith in the things that tradition has given you. You just somehow pretend that your Knowledge has magically appeared in your head.

About its past?So we shouldn't trust tradition? Then why trust the Bible not being corrupted? Why trust the people who compiled it (the Church)? Why trust whoever tells us those books are inspired?

Of course they must be true, because revealed Truth must be protected. You are just a hypocrite that labels some thins as infallible but refuse to accept the infallibility of the people who created those things.

Don't think I don't notice how you don't answer my questions.

Have American Catholics ever taken the Pope seriously? The country was founded on the principal of not listening to some faggot's opinions an ocean away. Just do what is right based on the teachings of the bible.

>fear of ISIS is not justified
>warped moral equivalence to the Gospel
>wealth inequity is why radical Islam exists, not because faith can be a de-facto primer for terrorism
>tfw the Church is being run by a Marxist Catholic and the Vatican is enabling him

I wonder who could be behind this?

You'd be alive to enjoy it for one

This

God is a Jew lie

Christianity, Judaism and Islam are three heads of the same Semitic hydra. No worthwhile European should be following any of them in 2016.

I don't think you have read what I said. The point is that there would be no reason for those people to be in my memories.

But as I have said:
>And even if that happened, the Truth would have been revealed to me, and it would be spread to others through tradition. And you'd better have some proof that the Truth has been personally revealed to you

How come it wasn't implemented until 1870? It just seems convenient that they can use it at command. Like "okay, I wasnt perfect then, but now I am"

If the pope is a man, he is fallible.
The bible says Christ is The head of the church and it says very little after that and some of it even appears to condemn the idea of An earthly papal seat. Look at how Jesus treated the Pharisees who claimed they did things on behalf of god. Authority is important but the way orthodoxy keeps tradition seems more biblical imo

>someone gave it to me
No, they didn't. God created me 2 seconds ago with Bible in hand. That's a perfectly logically consistent possibility, in which case there's no tradition/other people involved of which to even speak.

>so we shouldn't trust tradition
You can trust *whatever you want*, but if it's inconsistent with logic I'm going to reject it, and dogma is illogical due to constraints on human thought that necessarily leave us with the possibility that all claims outside soft solipsism could be wrong.

>Of course they must be true, because revealed Truth must be protected

p1) Something must be true if it must be protected
p2) Revealed Truth must be protected
---------
c) Therefore revealed Truth is true

That's a nonsense argument.

Life isn't about enjoyment, so I can't say I care.

having to confess sins directly to a person is a catholic thing

Protestants rejected that and think you can just confess directly to god without an intermediary

It was put into some paper then, doesn't mean it hasn't always applied.

Again, papal infallibility applies to dogma, when the pope speaks ex cathedra, doesn't mean the pope is literally perfect. And the way orthodoxy keeps tradition is exactly the same, giving authority.

> ITT: retards failing at reading comprehension
The Pope isn't saying you shouldn't fear ISIS. He's anti-ISIS, obviously. He's saying the "idea of conquest" ISIS is claiming to take from Islam is actually very similar to early christianism.

Not all muslims want to conquer the world "ISIS style" and most of their will to expansion is actually the same pacific proselytism the first christians did.

The Pope is just pointing out the first Christians went everyone in the Roman Empire and beyond to convert as much people as possible. Muslims are doing the same. The fact ISIS is using violence doesn't mean every muslims will use violence.